Religion

[KageSora]

They are speaking up about freedom of speech issues because at least one mayor, of Boston, straight out said he would abuse his power in order to prevent any Chick-Fil-As from setting up shop in his town.

 

When government starts trying to punish a company for the speech of its CEO, yes, that is a free speech issue.

They started crying about freedom of speech before that happened. Some of them, anyway. And many of them who scream about freedom of speech are the same people who genuinely think people are boycotting them and taking badly about them and upset with them solely because of what they believe.

 

I do agree that it's an abuse of power to prevent a company from getting into the city/town, though. That's an issue. If the people of the city are really that against them, then they just won't buy from them, and possibly cause them to leave on their own if they can't make the location profitable enough. And if they stay? Then just continue not buying from them. It's not hte place of the mayor to decide that... I will certainly agree with you on that.

[dgsunburst]

i am a christian but not a normal one most people in the christian religion are intolerant about other religions i honestly don't care i let other people believe in whatever they want to

 

[Fuzzbucket]

i am a christian but not a normal one most people in the christian religion are intolerant about other religions i honestly don't care i let other people believe in whatever they want to

I just read a post of yours in another thread that would seem to run counter to that....

 

They are speaking up about freedom of speech issues because at least one mayor, of Boston, straight out said he would abuse his power in order to prevent any Chick-Fil-As from setting up shop in his town.

 

When government starts trying to punish a company for the speech of its CEO, yes, that is a free speech issue.

Yes indeed. But there are laws against hate rhetoric, I think ? There are in the UK anyway... and there do need to be. Freedom of speech is not quite the same as freedom to use speech to abuse others.

[Princess Artemis]

Yes indeed. But there are laws against hate rhetoric, I think ? There are in the UK anyway... and there do need to be. Freedom of speech is not quite the same as freedom to use speech to abuse others.

No, in the US, thought crime in speech is not yet a real crime, although there are a lot of people who want it to be.

 

Freedom of speech is an inalienable right in the US; as such, enacting laws against people talking in a way that others dislike is not one which will fly here...at least, not for a while. That is why we also enjoy an inalienable right to free association--if we do not like someone's speech, we are completely free to socially shame them into oblivion. We are also quite free to speak about how awful we think they are and spread our opinions around so that others will, hopefully, agree with us and the social shame will spread until someone with vastly unpopular opinions finds a lot of people exercising their freedom of association to avoid them.

 

There are very few restrictions on the right to free speech, such as, screaming "Fire!" in a crowded building when there is no fire is not free speech. Expressing an opinion which some people dislike is the very essence of free speech.

 

In order for anyone to enjoy freedom of speech, the speech of the worst, most vile people must be protected. One never knows when one will become "disfavored" by a government which criminalizes speech.

 

There are libel and slander laws, which shows that a person may be civilly liable for speaking or writing lies that are harmful to another. Opinions are protected.

 

So, any consideration that what the CEO said was illegal because other people don't like it is not one in the US.

 

And that's it from me in the Religion thread on this subject...much more and it will go way too far away from religion, although in the US, freedom of religion is also a 1st Amendment inalienable right.

[AngelKitty]

Surprised a bit that nobody's brought this case up in this thread, but the Pakistani girl accused of blasphemy has been released. Apparently, a cleric in the area tried to frame her for blasphemy in an attempt to drive Christians out of the neighborhood.

 

But in a sudden turn-around, police arrested a cleric after a follower from his mosque accused him of stashing pages of a Quran in the girl's bag to make it seem as if she burned them. He allegedly planted the evidence to push Christians out of the neighborhood and is now being investigated for blasphemy himself. He has denied the allegation.

 

The arrest was applauded as a rare occurrence when blasphemy accusers are held responsible for false claims.

 

In his ruling granting bail, the judge wrote that the arrest of the cleric cast serious doubt on the prosecution's case. He also said she was a minor, had mental challenges and that it was "not believable" that she had intentionally burnt the Quranic verses. On those grounds, he decided to grant the bail.

 

Glad to hear she was released. This is why church and state need to remain separated.

[Vhale]

I hope that cleric gets convicted. It could be a good wake up call that if your own people are breaking your faith to fan the flames, you should be more careful before you run out and lynch someone.

 

I saw this the other day and thought it was a decent write up.

 

It seems like this election season "religious liberty" is a hot topic. Rumors of its demise are all around, as are politicians who want to make sure that you know they will never do anything to intrude upon it.

 

I'm a religious person with a lifelong passion for civil rights, so this is of great interest to me. So much so, that I believe we all need to determine whether our religious liberties are indeed at risk. So, as a public service, I've come up with this little quiz. I call it "How to Determine if Your Religious Liberty Is Being Threatened in Just 10 Quick Questions." Just pick "A" or "B" for each question.

 

1. My religious liberty is at risk because:

 

A) I am not allowed to go to a religious service of my own choosing.

Others are allowed to go to religious services of their own choosing.

 

2. My religious liberty is at risk because:

 

A) I am not allowed to marry the person I love legally, even though my religious community blesses my marriage.

Some states refuse to enforce my own particular religious beliefs on marriage on those two guys in line down at the courthouse.

 

3. My religious liberty is at risk because:

 

A) I am being forced to use birth control.

I am unable to force others to not use birth control.

 

4. My religious liberty is at risk because:

 

A) I am not allowed to pray privately.

I am not allowed to force others to pray the prayers of my faith publicly.

 

5. My religious liberty is at risk because:

 

A) Being a member of my faith means that I can be bullied without legal recourse.

I am no longer allowed to use my faith to bully gay kids with impunity.

 

6. My religious liberty is at risk because:

 

A) I am not allowed to purchase, read or possess religious books or material.

Others are allowed to have access books, movies and websites that I do not like.

 

7. My religious liberty is at risk because:

 

A) My religious group is not allowed equal protection under the establishment clause.

My religious group is not allowed to use public funds, buildings and resources as we would like, for whatever purposes we might like.

 

8. My religious liberty is at risk because:

 

A) Another religious group has been declared the official faith of my country.

My own religious group is not given status as the official faith of my country.

 

9. My religious liberty is at risk because:

 

A) My religious community is not allowed to build a house of worship in my community.

A religious community I do not like wants to build a house of worship in my community.

 

10. My religious liberty is at risk because:

 

A) I am not allowed to teach my children the creation stories of our faith at home.

Public school science classes are teaching science.

 

Scoring key:

 

If you answered "A" to any question, then perhaps your religious liberty is indeed at stake. You and your faith group have every right to now advocate for equal protection under the law. But just remember this one little, constitutional, concept: this means you can fight for your equality -- not your superiority.

 

If you answered "B" to any question, then not only is your religious liberty not at stake, but there is a strong chance that you are oppressing the religious liberties of others. This is the point where I would invite you to refer back to the tenets of your faith, especially the ones about your neighbors.

 

In closing, no matter what soundbites you hear this election year, remember this: Religious liberty is never secured by a campaign of religious superiority. The only way to ensure your own religious liberty remains strong is by advocating for the religious liberty of all, including those with whom you may passionately disagree. Because they deserve the same rights as you. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

Original

Edited September 13, 2012 by Vhale

[archangelofcreation]

Christianity was started really far back. back before Egypt was building the pyramids. back (I believe) before dinosaurs wandered the earth. i dont believe in my religion because i was forced to go to church as a child. the reason i believe is because i have seen people who had a tumor the size of my fist disappear overnight. i've seen babies that had their heart stop come alive after all the doctors have given up. i believe because i have prayed and had my prayers answered.....

 

Buddhists could say the same. so could the Hindu, so could the Shiva worshippers. but its the reason i believe.

[7Deadly$ins]

Christianity was started really far back. back before Egypt was building the pyramids. back (I believe) before dinosaurs wandered the earth. i dont believe in my religion because i was forced to go to church as a child. the reason i believe is because i have seen people who had a tumor the size of my fist disappear overnight. i've seen babies that had their heart stop come alive after all the doctors have given up. i believe because i have prayed and had my prayers answered.....

 

Buddhists could say the same. so could the Hindu, so could the Shiva worshippers. but its the reason i believe.

Christianity as a religion was not around when there were dinosaurs walking around. You can claim your God created everything, but the foundations of the religion itself were not present.

[prairiecrow]

Christianity was started really far back. back before Egypt was building the pyramids. back (I believe) before dinosaurs wandered the earth.

And your source for this remarkable statement is...?

 

I'm honestly curious, since it seems a pretty incredible claim.

 

(And now I find myself wondering if the creatures preserved in the Burgess Shale were Catholics or Lutherans...)

Edited September 14, 2012 by prairiecrow

[Rosedamai]

Christianity was started really far back. back before Egypt was building the pyramids. back (I believe) before dinosaurs wandered the earth.

Back then the only worshippers would have been primitive life forms. I doubt that they had brains large enough to process complexities like religion.

[St. Jimmy]

Christianity was started really far back. back before Egypt was building the pyramids. back (I believe) before dinosaurs wandered the earth.

Didn't Christianity start around the time Jesus was around?

[BlitzDrake]

What's this about religious people and Chick-a-fila? o_o

The owner of Chick-a-fia stood up and said they do not support gays. They're Christian and it caused a major uproar in my city. We had people lined up EVERYWHERE to support them by buying their food. I would've bought something but, you know, impatience and stuff.

[philpot123]

Back then the only worshippers would have been primitive life forms. I doubt that they had brains large enough to process complexities like religion.

While it certainly wouldn't have been BEFORE dinosaurs wandered the earth, I'm sure he's referring to the fact that a belief in young-earth creationism necessitates a belief that humans and dinosaurs co-existed.

 

Christianity as a religion was not around when there were dinosaurs walking around. You can claim your God created everything, but the foundations of the religion itself were not present.

 

I would argue the foundation of the Christian faith is fellowship with God, and according to the Christian faith that was certainly there from the beginning.

 

Didn't Christianity start around the time Jesus was around?

 

Well, that's when the distinction arose between Judaism and Christianity, with our belief that Jesus was the prophesied Messiah and the Jewish belief that He was not, based on their own convictions and understanding of religious prophecies. A Christian would say that the premise of the Christian faith (God creating the world, man sinning, hence necessitating a coming redeemer) has been around since creation.

Edited September 14, 2012 by philpot123

[philpot123]

I'm Christian, and I love God and all, but some things that I hear just make no sense. Like how people say God loves and created everyone in his own image, but then they say he doesn't like gay people. And certain Christian groups seem to exclude every logical piece of science out there and then say things that make much less sense that any scientific theroy. I know I don't know everything, and I'm very sorry if I'm offending anyone on this fourm, but that's what I think. I mean some things with birds and dinosaurs, if you actually pay attention rather than say that can't be true and forget about it, it makes perfect sense.

 

Also I was reading part of the bible about the behemoth, and I saw that I clearly says that the Leviathan (I don't think I spelt that right) breaths fire. And at this one church the Leviathan is apparently a water dinosaur, but dinosaur can't breath fire. So either that shrugged that off, or really just don't know anything about dinosaurs

The people who say God "doesn't like gay people" are simply being consistent with their religious text that condemns homosexuality. Whether or not you accept those verses, or the Bible as authoritative is your choice, but the fact remains that they exist. Being made in the image of God does not negate sin, if you consider homosexual actions to be such based on scripture.

[Gsea]

My religion is none.

 

Maybe years ago when I was little, I would have identified as a Christian because my parents just raised my siblings and I thinking we were Christians in our early years, but as we got older we figured out we really weren't. We don't go to church, we have never prayed. We celebrate Christmas and stuff but that's more of a tradition, and for the sake of getting together as a family and opening gifts, not celebrating the birthday of Jesus. Because my family has no religion.

 

Honestly I couldn't be a Christian if I tried, and if I ever did begin to rely on religion, that is what I would be - a Christian - but that's not going to happen because I just don't share the beliefs, I've never read the bible, I've never set foot in a church except for my little sister's preschool play when she was three. Now I know a lot of Christians nowadays are cool with homosexuals, but the reason I couldn't be a Christian is because some aren't so cool with it, and I am. That's one reason of many. Also I just don't believe in any of Christianity's beliefs. That too.

 

My father is an atheist, as am I, and my mother is agnostic. My brother and sister are too young to really know what they are but chances are they will identify as atheists as well.

 

I don't believe in any form of a god or higher power, but do I shove this in everyone's face? Do I try to make them think like me? No. I generally don't even tell people I'm an atheist unless asked. I don't care what you are - Muslim, Jewish, Christian - whatever you are, good for you! That's great. Awesome. Believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe: evolution, science, yada yada.

 

That's the beauty of not having a religion: I don't have a religion to preach about to everyone, I don't have a religion to slap people in the face with, I don't have a religion.

[Switch]

I'm not sure what I am. owo; I was raised Christian and went to a Christian Kindergarten, but I never really followed any religion at all. I know I'm not atheist (well, I think?), and I don't think I'm agnostic.

 

Like I said, I have no idea. o.o

 

*awkwardly shimmies off*

Edited September 15, 2012 by Switch

[7Deadly$ins]

I'm not sure what I am. owo; I was raised Christian and went to a Christian Kindergarten, but I never really followed any religion at all. I know I'm not atheist, and I don't think I'm agnostic.

 

Like I said, I have no idea. o.o

 

*awkwardly shimmies off*

Do you believe in a god?

[Switch]

Do you believe in a god?

No, not really...

 

And I guess I know I'm not atheist wouldn't be the right term. I'm actually not sure on that either. >__>;

Sorry about that derp.

[St. Jimmy]

Sounds Atheist or Agnostic to me. Actually sounds a bit like what I was between religions... except I believed in some kind of higher power.

[Gsea]

Well to the extent of my knowledge this is how to "dumb it down":

 

Christian, Muslim, Jewish - you would know if you were one of those

Agnostic - believe in a higher power, some sort of god or deity

Atheist- don't even believe in that

 

If you support creationism, you believe that the world and universe was a result of creation.

If you support what I believe in, evolution and just science through and through, that there were no gods involved, then you might be atheist.

[Switch]

Sounds Atheist or Agnostic to me. Actually sounds a bit like what I was between religions... except I believed in some kind of higher power.

Oh, okay... I mean, I had figured I might be close-ish to one of those two but I just wasn't sure if I completely qualified as either. >_>; I'm just a big pile of confused when it comes to such things as these.

 

And yeah, I guess I do support what you do, Glamour. owo;

[Gsea]

But still, your religion doesn't have to be set in stone You can lean towards one belief without having to go along with it wholeheartedly. I just was encouraging you to determine for yourself because if it were me I would like to have some term to use when asked what my religion was, but nobody says you have to be one or the other. It's whatever you believe. If you don't know what you believe, then you don't know. Doesn't mean you have to be atheist, though you do sound like that to me, but you don't have to go around saying "I'm an atheist!" <3

[7Deadly$ins]

Well to the extent of my knowledge this is how to "dumb it down":

 

Christian, Muslim, Jewish - you would know if you were one of those

Agnostic - believe in a higher power, some sort of god or deity

Atheist- don't even believe in that

 

If you support creationism, you believe that the world and universe was a result of creation.

If you support what I believe in, evolution and just science through and through, that there were no gods involved, then you might be atheist.

No, no. Agnosticism essentially states that there is no way to know for sure if there is or isn't a god. Most atheists are actually agnostic-atheists, because few atheists will tell you there could never be a god -- it's just a matter of proof.

[libby2999]

I'll say somthing that my parents hate, and I'll do it in five words.

 

I don't believe in Jesuse.

 

But I do believe in:

-God

-Reincarnation for those who die young and at an unfair adge

-Be kind to all people

-Be kind to yourself

and...get ready for this...

-God does not have a humany figue.

[Gsea]

No, no. Agnosticism essentially states that there is no way to know for sure if there is or isn't a god. Most atheists are actually agnostic-atheists, because few atheists will tell you there could never be a god -- it's just a matter of proof.

Ohh, see, I'm learning things :3

 

I never cared enough about religion to learn too much about it. I just never cared. So I went off of what my parents told me, which was what I stated a few posts earlier.

 

(What? Parents don't know everything? Noo-) Lol.

 

I think I might be thoroughly an atheist, not even an agnostic-atheist, because I don't believe in any god and I don't believe it can be proved that there is one in a way that would change my mind, so...yeah. To me, there aren't any gods. :L

 

But I still say "Oh my God" or "Oh my lord" and at times will yell "Jesus Christ" so...forgive me for using the lord's name in vain I was raised in an environment where yelling those things was not insensitive, just something everyone said, nothing to get all fussy over.