Sexism

[Wookieinmashoo]

The Elder Scrolls are excellent, I have played and modded the last three games and still mod Skyrim.

 

The company makes a game that is VERY gender equal, with no sexualization of the female form at all. Very equal and equal roles throughout the Elder Scrolls world. With female leaders and guards. I love the Elder Scrolls for this very thing.

 

Only once in their most recent game, Skyrim, they have gone slightly in the direction that so many male gamers want and you will find one outfit that is very skimpy and stupid in a freezing cold climate.

 

 

 

I was going to bring this up but thought someone else would eventually. What's really interesting, especially with the latest game is that there doesn't seem to be any indication of different genders for relationships in the game. There are a set of marry-able (is that a word) people in the game and both genders will show interest in your characters whether they're male or female.

 

What did disappoint me about the game is the clothing automatically taking on a more feminine form once worn. Yes ladies have boobs most of the time and there must be room for them, but when the whole clothing attire changes it's a bit disappointing. I guess the creators did not image that people would want to possibly play as a male character in lady clothing.

 

But yes, the game series is one of the very least sexualized I have ever seen and it's nice to see an RPG with no "magical girl" skimpy outfit. Some of the outfits for females are silly, but then again some are silly for males as well.

[Princess Artemis]

Elder Scrolls is pretty good about this, although yes, Skyrim in particular I noticed that the female models had taken on a bit of comic book back-broken anatomy. Nocturnal looks like she's in agony and is a particularly bad example of what shows up in the models of NPCs (some of which just look like they are straining to throw their breasts forward as far as they can). The whole game has a comic book aesthetic, but overall, it's OK.

 

Morrowind and Oblivion don't have that issue at all and I appreciate that about them. I don't know anything about mods for Oblivion and Skyrim because I have them for the PS3, but Morrowind has mods that make the bodies for male and female characters more realistic. Painted on and ridiculous looking vulvas aside, the mods that have stood the test of time aren't bad at all, and it makes sense for there to be nudity in a game where taking your armor off will surprise NPCs into shouting about the PC's lack of public modesty.

 

As for the stupid Skyrim mods noted here: Yeah, misogyny is alive and well.

 

As for Barbarians in fancy thongs: Indeed they are. They are almost never sexualized in their fancy thongs though. http://www.out.com/sites/out.com/files/ima...pyEndings_2.jpg is a sexualized guy in a skimpy thong. Now imagine that is what all RPG heroes in video game, comic book, and RPG art went out fighting in, then perhaps you'll be a little closer to what it looks like to women to see their sex depicted as sword fighting in anti-gravity chainmail bikins all the flippin' time.

[Syaoransbear]

Maybe I'm just not playing the right games, but I haven't seen a barbarian or warrior in a loin-cloth/thong clothing since gauntlet for n64. Perhaps when graphics got better guys didn't want to see that type of thing anymore . The fad lately seems to be really detailed full body armor for men, where even most or all of their face is covered, while women still have useless armor that exposes vital organs. This just automatically makes the women seem weaker.

 

And the shirtless barbarians never seemed to be a sexual type thing, it was more like muscles = power, therefore they tried to show them off to make the character seem more powerful. I have no idea how cleavage or giant breasts are supposed to make you look strong.

[Princess Artemis]

In Diablo 3, the male and female barbarians start out pretty lean on clothing, but it doesn't take either one long to realize they should put some clothes on.

[TikindiDragon]

In Diablo 3, the male and female barbarians start out pretty lean on clothing, but it doesn't take either one long to realize they should put some clothes on.

Actually, thinking about it, D3 in general is pretty good for the way its female characters look.

[Princess Artemis]

Yeah, overall it is. There are some things that make me roll my eyes, but by and large it's pretty good. When there is something like the female barbarian being simply a powerful warrior without being sexed up, it balances out the female demon hunter who is fighting evil in stiletto heels and a leather corset. Then having a bishounen male wizard to balance out the typical body-builder male barbarian...they did a lot right with D3's art.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[Dubious]

I think one of the things that bothers me most is that the modders who made skimpy armors, bouncing breasts (yes, that was a mod made), big butts etccc. get idolised by the masses. Those mods are the most popular mods, despite the fact that other mods require a hundred times and hours of more work. One town I made took three years to make, a real labor of love, yet despite it's ground breaking features and the sheer amount of content, while it is popular in it's own right, it can't hold a candle to any skimpy armor mod that took an hour to make.

 

But anyway, that personal gripe aside. My point in the post is that modders of skimpy female body mods/armor/sex mods etc get accoladed and praised to the heavens by the masses and predominantly male gamer base. However, modders of MALE skimpy armor, buff bodies etc...get abuse, death threats, accused of being homosexual.

 

One female modder who makes skimpy male armor got so much abuse and death threats that she left modding. She was tremendously talented and her textures were works of art. There actually started an underground train of skimpy male armors because people got so abused for creating them. Anyone who creates any type of mods that sexualizes the male form is subject to masses of abuse.

 

Therein lies another massive inequality, why is okay to sexualize the female form, yet not the male form. Personally I don't want either 'sexualized'. I have no problem with nudity and use natural nude mods when I roleplay in my RPGs, simply for the realism. But this gender inequality is rampant in gaming.

[7Deadly$ins]

I have a big problem with the way same-sex relationships in video games are responded to as well. In Mass Effect 3 some people were all up in arms over the gay relationship they included, and they went on about how Bioware was "pandering to the gay community." No one complained that there was a lesbian relationship possible in the very first Mass Effect. :\

[Princess Artemis]

I have a big problem with the way same-sex relationships in video games are responded to as well. In Mass Effect 3 some people were all up in arms over the gay relationship they included, and they went on about how Bioware was "pandering to the gay community." No one complained that there was a lesbian relationship possible in the very first Mass Effect. :\

I don't have the link on me, but I absolutely appreciated the way one of the BioWare writers responded to some of the same sort of criticism when it came up pointed at Dragon Age II. The gist of it was, "Straight Male Gamer, you're not the only demographic on the planet. We make games for other people too."

[7Deadly$ins]

I don't think Morrigan is an option... but Leliana and Zevran are. DA2 upped the ante by making all the romance options bi except for Sebastian.

[Kelkelen]

I'm thoroughly disgusted with the gamin(g*) community now. I've tolerated comments from male gamers whilst online, thinking that only I had the misfortune to meet these people (because I have very poor luck when it comes to people). Thinking that there has to be better people than that, that I only got on around the time all the ***s emerged.

 

I guess not. I guess that, with the exception of very few people, they're pretty much all the ***s I've come to expect.

At the very least, I find it heartening that the women and some men DO speak out against rape mods, etc. I already knew that the disgusting misogynist demographic was there, but it's nice to know that some (real) men will speak out against the bigoted group, and that some women aren't giving up and allowing that group to silence them.

 

Furthermore, I do believe there are more decent, kind people playing video games than not -- they just have better things to do than sit around on the internet and troll all day. I have to remind myself of that, often, so that the rabidly prejudiced and violent posts I see online don't get me down.

[KageSora]

Furthermore, I do believe there are more decent, kind people playing video games than not -- they just have better things to do than sit around on the internet and troll all day. I have to remind myself of that, often, so that the rabidly prejudiced and violent posts I see online don't get me down.

Yep, there's plenty of us. Most of us, though, don't want to get involved in pointless arguments that won't change the PoV of the people being jerks, as we could be doing more important things like playing our games.

 

 

But they really do piss me off, the gamers that give the rest of us a bad reputation. They're just... Very numerous and very, very, very loud. And everywhere. And for every one we shut down, 2 more seem to crop up...

[The Evil Doer]

Reading those comments has pretty much killed whatever faith I had left in the gaming community, as well as some of humanity.

After years of living in Amazon with zero human contact you have discovered that some guys/girls are ***s, and it has caused you to lose faith in humanity/gaming community, liked that comment.

 

Dear Amazon gamer, if you encounter an ***, in a game or any other random place, do keep in mind that his/her behavior reflects poorly only on him/herself and has nothing to do with you, also take into account that one *** doesnt represnt anybody except for himself, just like you dont represent anybody except for yourself, every person you encounter in life, virtually or not will be an individual hence might be awesome but might also be an ass, getting upset over someone else's ignorance serves nothing hence the best thing to do is - nice person, yey, fun, ***, ignore and forget about his/her existence... Simple and easy to do, try it....

Edited June 18, 2012 by The Evil Doer

[KageSora]

It's not just me, either. It's my fellow female gamers. I knew someone who gamers would tell sounded like she was a 12 yo boy (hear that ALL the time), who said she sucked because she was a girl (and, ironically, she would end up triumphing over them more often than not), and who would get sexist comments or jokes or even messages from other gamers. Kinda sad that that even happens as much as it does. I can understand the occasional slob, but not slews of them...

Ugh, I know how it is to be the "rare female gamer"... '

 

One of the biggest reasons I typically set my gender to male is because, honestly, I'm sick of how guys treat females, both in gaming communities and online in general.

 

 

Mostly it started because when I was new to the 'net and I did some RP stuff, people just assumed that I was a guy from my naming choices for my characters and apparently I "typed like a guy", however that is. o_O So I got sick of correcting people, and just started going along with it. Then it was to avoid the creeps. Ugh, some of them just... /traumatized

 

 

Seriously, when I finally admitted to being female on one board, this guy who'd been an ass the entire time suddenly changed his tune and wanted to chat me up on AIM, saying I was an "interesting" person. He was still an ass to the other males in the topic. '

 

 

Like, really? I'm going to forget his previous ass-ish behavior just because he's changed his mind about me now that he knows I have girl-parts?

 

I've not actually seen a girl suddenly change her mind once she realizes she's talking to a guy. I'm sure it happens, I just haven't seen it.

[Rosedamai]

Like, really?  I'm going to forget his previous ass-ish behavior just because he's changed his mind about me now that he knows I have girl-parts?

Ugh. THIS SO MUCH. It's gotten to a point where I purposely swear and stuff online, because if I use my usual tone of voice, I sound "overly polite" and "like a girl". Which means people would a. hit on me or b. make derogatory remarks about my strategy and stuff.

Edited June 18, 2012 by ylangylang

[Zaxian]

...people just assumed that I was a guy from my naming choices for my characters ...

Yeah... I do that on purpose (like with my screenname). Given no other information, people will assume I'm male, which cuts down on the 'asl?' 'r u a girl?' 'wanna send pics?' and other less pleasant comments. Been doing it for a long time now - when I was younger, I learnt quite quickly that you get much less unwanted attention if you don't advertise you're a girl. Which is a kinda sad state of affairs

 

I knew someone who gamers would tell sounded like she was a 12 yo boy (hear that ALL the time)

I get that one too.

[KageSora]

It's just so wrong and frustrating. And no, I do not want to cyber with you just because I have girl bits.

 

Shocking, I know, but not every girl out there is dying for a chance to have pretend sex with some idiot guy who seems like he's unable to get any IRL if he's so desperate to get some online.

 

And no, turning down cybering does NOT make me a lesbian. ' Idiots, idiots everywhere. Just like a guy turning down cybering with a girl doesn't make him gay--he might very well be, but so what?

 

 

Female journalist gets treated like she can't possibly know anything at E3. Just sad, really. I mean, I can understand wanting to walk her through it if she's proving her self to be inept at the demo, since you want to show off as much as you can and all. But not even giving her a chance to show that she knows how to play the darn games before deciding you need to do it for her? Just because she's a girl? Ugh.

[The Evil Doer]

@ TheEvilDoer - I'm not saying that ALL of the gaming community is an ass. I'm just saying that the ones I've met OL and IRL (with exception of a few) are asses. It would be easy to ignore if it were an occasional thing. But every time I get on Live? EVERY time, and the lobby is full of them? I don't get it. It's like I've got an *** magnet attached to me. It's not just me, either. It's my fellow female gamers. I knew someone who gamers would tell sounded like she was a 12 yo boy (hear that ALL the time), who said she sucked because she was a girl (and, ironically, she would end up triumphing over them more often than not), and who would get sexist comments or jokes or even messages from other gamers. Kinda sad that that even happens as much as it does. I can understand the occasional slob, but not slews of them...

 

Plus, I lose faith in humanity every day. The news, the internet, and comments like the ones in the blog are faith-killers.

 

However, it seems as if there is a cure for the loss of faith. The Elderly. Bless them. The things the elderly do make you want to love people again.

I cant speak for most gaming communities, been playing only diablo lately and havent encountered one ass, matter of fact everybody is really nice, nobody doesnt even care nor asks about the gender at all... but thats only my experience...

 

BTW, thats funny, coz elderly are more racist, more bitter, more blunt, and just as much asses if not more... matter of fact most of those elderly ones you talk about are more likely to be more sexist than anyone from the new generation.. just think about their generation and what was it like for women....

Edited June 19, 2012 by The Evil Doer

[Alpha1]

Does that really... count? I don't really see anything "clearly feminine" about whatever that is.

Diablo's looking fine this time around.

 

 

I made the mistake of speaking up about a rape mod and telling the site owner that hosted the mod that it was incredibly offensive to women everywhere. While some others spoke up in support of me, the majority attacked me for it. Launching a massive argument on what constitutes rape, which I couldn't believe we were even having. People were bringing up laws on rape and what constitues rape or sexual assault. Claiming the mod was not 'rape'. Trying to tell me that forced penetration of a woman does not constitute rape by law. It was just sick. Notably all the females in the argument were on my side and a good porportion of men too. Everyone on the other side of the argument was male.

 

In the end the site owner said that we had not convinced him that the mod was a rape mod, despite the author even saying it was a rape mod in the description. The site owner claimed that it was not rape because it was some tentacled monster that the player could 'summon' ingame to tie up a female NPC (non player character for those that don't play RPGs) and then literally rape her with tentacles, all realistic sound effects included. If it had been a human, then it would constitute rape. Which is just beyond sick. I got told to shut up and if I didn't like the mod, don't download and use it.

 

I suspect they were making the argument that it wasn't rape in the same sense over the debate on killing children in Skyrim.

 

I cant speak for most gaming communities, been playing only diablo lately and havent encountered one ass, matter of fact everybody is really nice, nobody doesnt even care nor asks about gender at all... but thats only my experience...

 

Seriously? Not one acting like an ***? 90% of the people in public games go AFK. Stupid vote kicking doesn't work all the time either. I suspect some people are doing this to grief, since the monsters get stronger, or they want to be carried.

 

In hardcore, some people open up Whimsyshire and open the game to the public to try to get people to flag near them, or they bring monsters to the town. It's a griefers' paradise.

 

In trade, you can easily lose items and gold because of the insecure trade window.

 

In chat, some people were linking items and changing their stats to either get someone to trade with them or changing it to something not allowable in the game, so the person's game would crash if they viewed it.

 

Admittedly, I kinda wish they'd bring back PK and corpse popping.

 

 

[KageSora]

I cant speak for most gaming communities, been playing only diablo lately and havent encountered one ass, matter of fact everybody is really nice, nobody doesnt even care nor asks about gender at all... but thats only my experience...

That's lucky.

 

From what I've seen there are good fanbases, bad fanbases, and divided fanbases. Good fanbases are where the majority of the fans are decent people, and will speak up against the jerks. Bad fanbases either consist of mostly jerks and trolls or the good fans don't bother speaking up so you don't see them very much. Divided fanbases seem to have a lot of vocal people on both sides, with people who are jerks getting called out on it by nice people.

 

 

 

Usually it's the "hardcore" people who are acting like they've lost some of their sanity and fly off the handle into a blind rage over tiny little things that give most people a bad impression. The edges of fandoms tend to be pretty decent, though.

 

 

But it really depends on where you go. I remember being part of a Zoids RPG years back, and being a female there was dangerous. Admin was a pervert, staff wouldn't take your side, etc (that place traumatized me. Ugh, creepy admin was a massive pervert...). But then I've been to other Zoids RPGs since, and non-RPG places and it's chill and nobody cares if you're a girl or a guy or flying hippo that reproduces through asexual division.

 

 

I've seen parts of the Supernatural fandom that are disturbingly misogynistic, with horrible amounts of hatred for any female that dares show up simply on the basis of she's a girl (and most of them are girls who are being this way...), but there are some really cool fans and places where it's calm and you can have a rational discussion on why you do or do not like a female character without drama popping up.

 

 

It's not usually sexism that I encounter in fandom communities that makes them unbearable, though. That does happen, of course, but mostly it's just the fans who don't seem to have the ability to react to things like a sane, rational human and who spew hatred of anything and everything that isn't to their specific tastes.

 

 

But I typically hang out in areas where other fangirls hang out, and it's the places where there are more fanboys than girls or a more even amount that the sexism seems most likely to rear it's ugly head.

[The Evil Doer]

Seriously? Not one acting like an ***? 90% of the people in public games go AFK. Stupid vote kicking doesn't work all the time either. I suspect some people are doing this to grief, since the monsters get stronger, or they want to be carried.

 

In hardcore, some people open up Whimsyshire and open the game to the public to try to get people to flag near them, or they bring monsters to the town. It's a griefers' paradise. 

 

In trade, you can easily lose items and gold because of the insecure trade window.

 

In chat, some people were linking items and changing their stats to either get someone to trade with them or changing it to something not allowable in the game, so the person's game would crash if they viewed it.

 

Admittedly, I kinda wish they'd bring back PK and corpse popping. 

Let me rephrase that, not even 1 ass !!!

 

some people have to go afk, when that happens they say have a phone call brb, or I have to take a you know what in the you know where, brb....never once had a reason to use the feat of kicking someone out....I mean people dont even go back to town to sell stuff without saying "have to sell brb"

 

In hardcore people communicate all the time, will warn you assuming they left a monster or 30 at the portal, will tell you when its safe to teleport to them without you even asking, will inspect your char and drop rare items which you can use to get better coz we are all aware of how much it sucks to die at lvl 40+, will share/exchange advices, whenever somebody dies we all pretty much feel like coz of it, I have jumped in to save people and I have been saved by people, its all with random people I have never spoken to before... when we feel somebody isnt strong enough like geee I dont know maybe a DH, we tell him/her to avoid the fight, to go back and do some more farming or to use AH and get better gear, we throw some gear at him/her if we have smth he/she can use... so basically I dont know who have you been playing with but I have yet to encounter one person who was being an ass, who was being disrespectful towards girls or anything of a kind actually... have 80% of co-op achievements so I did actually play with people for a few hours even though I solo'd the first character...

 

The rest of the things you have mentioned... never encountered one of them, never even heard anyone complain about any one of those either, everyone I've played with thinks most players are decent guys/girls so either I have been lucky or you have been extremely unlucky

 

The only thing I have encountered is that someone wont talk back (will ignore you asking him/her something, happened like 4 times) but that usually happens simply coz they aint all that good in English which is understandable....

Edited June 19, 2012 by The Evil Doer

[Rosedamai]

Let me rephrase that, not even 1 ass !!!

Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

ETA: Wow, that sentence looks really, really convoluted.

Edited June 19, 2012 by ylangylang

[Shienvien]

...I've been fairly lucky with video games and net-communities in general, too. In the other end, it might be the result of me picking the right places to frequent.

[The Evil Doer]

Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

ETA: Wow, that sentence looks really, really convoluted.

Obviously thats why I said : I cant speak for most gaming communities, been playing only diablo lately and havent encountered one ass, matter of fact everybody is really nice, nobody doesnt even care nor asks about the gender at all... but thats only my experience...

[Rosedamai]

Obviously thats why I said : I cant speak for most gaming communities, been playing only diablo lately and havent encountered one ass, matter of fact everybody is really nice, nobody doesnt even care nor asks about the gender at all... but thats only my experience...

Of course. No offense intended. My tone probably didn't carry out too well.

 

But really, in many other communities, this sort of thing is getting out of hand. There are guys who pretend to be girls online, because then the other male gamers get interested in them, and buy them high-level armor and stuff. There's even a word for it, I believe.

 

One may argue that "hey, it's a good thing, because you're being treated nicer because you're a girl" only...it isn't. Sometimes it's done in the hopes that you'll meet them in real life. Sometimes they demand things of you. It's annoying. I'd rather that they cease interest altogether.