Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) Threads get locked when they are getting out of hand and when: A. Mods need time to review them and deal with any problems and B. To let members cool down if there is a flame war going on. This is exactly what exactly what was going on in the thread in question. Cleaning out every offensive post in a thread and then notifying everyone about it via PM would be a monstrous task. If I delete posts that are offtopic/flaming, I will usually post a notice in the thread once it is reopened. If it is determined that the thread will only continue to create drama and flame wars, it may remain closed. I have never seen a thread closed because it MIGHT cause drama - it already has been a problem and is likely to erupt again. That being said, even if the thread is closed, the suggestion still exists and TJ DOES read them. It is completely possible to disagree with someone without flaming them. Think before hitting that "Add Reply" button. If someone flames you, please REPORT it instead of flaming them back, or take such discussions to PM. *edit* Stupid smiley. Edited December 30, 2012 by LadyLyzar Share this post Link to post
Posted December 30, 2012 Also it MIGHT mean a limit to the number of threads closed as duplicates - of which there are a huge number - especially if we could have a list of threads on particularly popular topics (the search function here really ISN'T good). One forum I am on has a dedicated thread with a list of popular topics grouped by category. It saves HOURS on searching. But I'm not sure how well it could work here. A master list of suggestions, somewhat like the master list of completed dragon requests and such could be helpful. But it would be time consuming to maintain, and I think the forum's search feature is adequate, providing you use it properly. Although if there were a guidelines-type thread, then it would make sense to include something about searching before you post a topic. Share this post Link to post
Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) A master list of suggestions, somewhat like the master list of completed dragon requests and such could be helpful. But it would be time consuming to maintain, and I think the forum's search feature is adequate, providing you use it properly. Although if there were a guidelines-type thread, then it would make sense to include something about searching before you post a topic. Maybe if suggestions were further subdivided... but I can't really see how... Just - for instance, dragon suggestions have their own area. Maybe FORUM suggestions could be separated out from CAVE suggestions - might make it easier to see a thread already suggesting what you just came up with... A shorter list to trawl through... I do use the search thing reasonably well - but even a mod who wanted to merge a thread a couple of weeks ago -before search was turned off - couldn't find the thread (someone else had it bookmarked, luckily...) ETAS (saw Lady Lyzar's note) - I would LOVE to lose the sunglasses smiley. It is SO ****ing annoying. I like smileys - but that one is - a TOTAL exception... How many people want to see a guy in sunnies anyway - what's it FOR? Or could the code for it be changed, if it is actually needed? We often want to make lettered lists.... (I use b} now instead - but still...) Edited December 30, 2012 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted December 30, 2012 A lot of threads have been duplicates recently because of search being turned off. But it is still a problem at other times too. A mod will lock the thread and then say "please use the search feature", but it would be much easier if we had guidelines that people would read, so that they wouldn't post these duplicates in the first place. Even when search on the forums is turned off, there's always google. Just type into google "site:forums.dragcave.net [your search]" and it will search the site. It might not be too reliable, but it's better than nothing. Share this post Link to post
Posted December 30, 2012 A lot of threads have been duplicates recently because of search being turned off. But it is still a problem at other times too. A mod will lock the thread and then say "please use the search feature", but it would be much easier if we had guidelines that people would read, so that they wouldn't post these duplicates in the first place. Even when search on the forums is turned off, there's always google. Just type into google "site:forums.dragcave.net [your search]" and it will search the site. It might not be too reliable, but it's better than nothing. It's better than the search here actually. But still. Actually when that happens it would help if the mod ALWAYS included a link to the thread that the OP should have found if they had searched.... Some do this; some don't. Share this post Link to post
Posted December 30, 2012 I don't have much to say, just a bigger signature (image space and text) and more smilies! Share this post Link to post
Posted December 30, 2012 Stupid forum errors eating my posts. I had written up a beautiful, eloquent, Pulitzer-prize winning response in this thread, so of course it had to get 404'd. I loved that DO NOT EVER SUGGEST thread. I miss it (not least because some of the do not suggest things were so funny...) But something in a guidelines thread saying don't post about x y and z (take for instance neglecteds... that one we all seem OK has been knocked off forum and we well live on ?) Hahaha... no. The 'Do Not Suggest' list was a terrible idea from the start and did nothing but stifle potential discussions, novel ideas, and the ingenuity of people on this forum. I can't believe someone actually liked the constantly parroting of "NO we're not supposed to suggest this so GTFO" and "The list says no so this entire topic is invalid". Even the most basic of ideas has the potential to turn into something really ingenious, something even the most conservative of sites could agree on and implement for the benefit of everyone. A 'Do not suggest' list only creates a negative disposition towards ideas, users posting the ideas, and coming up with new ideas in general. People don't disagree with a suggestion because they don't think it'll work, they disagree because the 'DNS' list says so. I remember TJ once responded to a thread where people were regurgitating the "NO because TJ once said it wouldn't work" phrase, and basically told users to stop using his word as a reason to kill potential ideas. I've been seeing that reasoning creeping back into discussions-- and if any type of list is needed around here-- it's one that lists the kinds of responses not to post in suggestion threads. Such as: A. "It might stress the server and cause lag." -- You don't know that nor the potential load the server can handle, so leave that kind of decision to the people person who does. This kind of response makes me think of fear-mongering, because it's obvious no one wants lag. B. "TJ said _____. " -- Don't speak for others or base your opinion off of what may have been said in the past. Speak your own opinion. So and so's opinion may have changed from five years ago, or perhaps they are reconsidering the idea. Posts like this appear nothing more than attempts to kill a discussion where it stands, using the word of a 'final power' to make the entire suggestion null. C. "It may cause drama, hurr durr." -- You don't know that, unless you're planning on starting the drama yourself I guess. This forum is so frightened by the very idea of 'drama', that the definition of what constitutes 'drama' varies widely. Some people think disagreeing with the popular opinion is 'drama', while others think that constructive critique on sprites is 'drama'. I personally hate seeing this word come up in discussions (or anywhere), because I know it's an attempt to grab at the forum's paranoid fear of it. Anything and everything could cause drama, but that's no reason to completely halt all progress towards improvement or new features, is it? I believe I'm getting way off the original topic being discussed here... but asking for any type of additional "guideline" of what should "not be discussed" is a huge detriment to a suggestion forum. Other than the basic forum rules, I'm not saying to scrap those. Share this post Link to post
Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Indeed, I agree with Nine. I posted a BSA suggestion for Christmas dragons, and everyone said "TJ says rares can't have BSA's." Even Sock was considering closing it because of that. But then TJ posted saying my proposal would be fine for Christmas's. Let people discuss what they want - TJ will say so if an idea definitely won't/can't work. A 'Guidelines' thread that I would like would NOT be the same as the 'Do Not Suggest' thread. Edited December 31, 2012 by TheGrox Share this post Link to post
Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Wow you seriously don't get it do you? You're completely missing the point and couldn't be more obtuse jfc We could say the same of each other, actually. You don't see what I mean either ! Peace. Sorry for double post but things move too fast and I have to go be a better granny... Where did I say I don't see what you mean? This is exactly what I was referring to, you just state random things that have nothing to do with what the person actually said to you. Edited December 31, 2012 by mermaid Share this post Link to post
Posted December 31, 2012 Topic Warning ~ Please attack the topic/discussion not each other.~ Share this post Link to post
Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) We could say the same of each other, actually. You don't see what I mean either ! Peace. Where did I say I don't see what you mean? This is exactly what I was referring to, you just state random things that have nothing to do with what the person actually said to you. You said I was missing the point. That says to me that I don't see it as you do, as I am not missing the point that I see. Which is that the mods have a tough time, do - overall - a pretty good job - and I think if many of us behaved differently in threads, much of this llamadrama would never happen. We can learn to live with threads being closed, too - temporarily or even permanently - and posts disappearing as long as they don't derail a thread by not being there; endless "DNS" and "+1" and so on don't help a thread to be readable. It ISN'T some huge censorship drama. You don't see my point either. That's fine. That is part of discussion - looking at the POVs of others. Edited December 31, 2012 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted December 31, 2012 I remember TJ once responded to a thread where people were regurgitating the "NO because TJ once said it wouldn't work" phrase, and basically told users to stop using his word as a reason to kill potential ideas. I've been seeing that reasoning creeping back into discussions-- and if any type of list is needed around here-- it's one that lists the kinds of responses not to post in suggestion threads. Such as: A. "It might stress the server and cause lag." -- You don't know that nor the potential load the server can handle, so leave that kind of decision to the people person who does. This kind of response makes me think of fear-mongering, because it's obvious no one wants lag. B. "TJ said _____. " -- Don't speak for others or base your opinion off of what may have been said in the past. Speak your own opinion. So and so's opinion may have changed from five years ago, or perhaps they are reconsidering the idea. Posts like this appear nothing more than attempts to kill a discussion where it stands, using the word of a 'final power' to make the entire suggestion null. C. "It may cause drama, hurr durr." -- You don't know that, unless you're planning on starting the drama yourself I guess. This forum is so frightened by the very idea of 'drama', that the definition of what constitutes 'drama' varies widely. Some people think disagreeing with the popular opinion is 'drama', while others think that constructive critique on sprites is 'drama'. I personally hate seeing this word come up in discussions (or anywhere), because I know it's an attempt to grab at the forum's paranoid fear of it. Anything and everything could cause drama, but that's no reason to completely halt all progress towards improvement or new features, is it? I couldn't agree more with this. Yes, some things have been discussed to death already, like no more "spontaneous egg creation" - but in other cases, even TJ can change his mind. Just think of the holiday limits increase suggestion - a year or two ago, TJ said that he wouldn't consider this for hollies, now he says "give me a rule without exceptions" and actually gives the "except hollies" thing as an example for what he does not want. Another point that belongs on that list is "That would be hard to code." Only TJ knows what he can or cannot do, and what he might be willing to learn or how much effort he is willing to put into things. Share this post Link to post
Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) It's very easy to judge from the outside the term of 'drama' when you don't know what happens behind the scenes and one of the sides suddenly decides to air dirty laundry in public in an attempt to provoke the other. -.- Edited December 31, 2012 by earthgirl Share this post Link to post
Posted December 31, 2012 It's very easy to judge from the outside the term of 'drama' when you don't know what happens behind the scenes and one of the sides suddenly decides to air dirty laundry in public in an attempt to provoke the other. -.- QFT. I suspect this happens more than any of us ever know - to provoke others here.... (yes I report it when I see it.) Share this post Link to post
Posted January 2, 2013 Just a little thing: why not let people change their minds in a poll? I remember voting one way in the Fertility Rework BSA suggestion thread, but now considering all the arguments, I really wish I'd voted the other. And in another poll a while back, I accidentally nulled my vote. I have seen polls where you can change your mind before on forums, but I don't know if its possible on these sorts of forums. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 2, 2013 Just a little thing: why not let people change their minds in a poll? I remember voting one way in the Fertility Rework BSA suggestion thread, but now considering all the arguments, I really wish I'd voted the other. And in another poll a while back, I accidentally nulled my vote. Seconded! Also: a chat box a way to 'like' posts one notification email per thread visit and not per forum visit and a working 'search' Share this post Link to post
Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) Seconded! Also: a chat box a way to 'like' posts one notification email per thread visit and not per forum visit and a working 'search' Yes to changing votes. NO to a chat box - we have IRC; what would be the point ?; ESPECIALLY no to "like" - that is one thing that is so VILE about Facebook - loads of people "liking" without even READING (I know this for a reason; it happens ALL the time...) You can SAY you agree and why - which is much more meaningful than just clicking... You CAN set your notifications that way. You will probably regret it.... (I do hope search is back soon, too - but the forum does still seem to be under strain... not sure why) edited for typefails. Edited January 2, 2013 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) Also, I think the forum needs better servers (at least I'm assuming this is why they are so slow under heavy load?). Christmas was hell, and they're still laggy at times now. Then we could get search back, too. Btw I think even searching google with "site:forums.dragcave.net [your search]" works better than the current search (even when it is working...) Edited January 2, 2013 by TheGrox Share this post Link to post
Posted January 2, 2013 Also, I think the forum needs better servers (at least I'm assuming this is why they are so slow under heavy load?). Christmas was hell, and they're still leggy at times now. Then we could get search back, too. Btw I think even searching google with "site:forums.dragcave.net [your search]" works better than the current search (even when it is working...) That's the case on every forum I am on - in fact one of them has the google search right on there as an option to search with it within the forum. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) I'd also like an easier way to multi-quote. Moi aussi - BUT - NOT if it meant switching to Invision 3. Trust me - that would be VERY VERY bad unless TJ is ever so much more brilliant about tweaking things it doesn't want to let you do than invision wants him to be ! Invision 3 is the work of the devil. Others here will tell you the same ! (How rude; my spellchecker automatically turned my French aussi to AUSSIE !) Edited January 3, 2013 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) I'd also like an easier way to multi-quote. I was going to suggest that too actually . I have seen forums where you can tick/choose multiple posts to quote. Something like that might work? Edited January 3, 2013 by TheGrox Share this post Link to post
Posted January 3, 2013 I was going to suggest that too actually . I have seen forums where you can tick/choose multiple posts to quote. Something like that might work? As I said - you can do it in invision 3. You can in invision 2 as well - and THAT was fine, but TJ even posted somewhere that he isn't happy with 3 (when it came up in terms of other things) and they won't LET you only upgrade to 2. A forum I am on upgraded from 2 to 3; the admins regretted it at once but they won't let it go back. No more PMs - you have to have "conversations" instead - and you cannot archive messages - and more.... VERY VERY ICK. Share this post Link to post
Posted January 3, 2013 Actually, what about having nested quotes too? Like, being able to quote multiple quotes in the same quote... you know what I mean. We can do it in PM's, but if you quote a post on the forums it only quotes that post, not the quotes in it. I don't know if any of this is possible, but we can do it in PM's, so... Share this post Link to post
Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) Actually, what about having nested quotes too? Like, being able to quote multiple quotes in the same quote... you know what I mean. We can do it in PM's, but if you quote a post on the forums it only quotes that post, not the quotes in it. I don't know if any of this is possible, but we can do it in PM's, so... You can use nested quotes - I've seen people doing that multiple of times. It's just that most of us don't know how to do it (me included). Edited January 3, 2013 by PointOfOrigin Share this post Link to post
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