American Politics

[StormBirdRising]

On 5/24/2022 at 6:00 PM, AngelsSin said:

 

I believe everyone should have a background check and maybe even need to renew a certificate to prove they are still a responsible gun owner and not committing or having committed acts of violence, or have a severe drug addict which makes them erratic . And every gun owner should/need to be validated/educated on proper use and care for a gun. It won't solve every issue but I think it would limit it from happening with such a terrifying frequency.

I am in favor of this idea because it is easy to implement and easy to enforce.  And I don't see any down side to this recommendation.  What you have suggested is a common sense solution.  I live in California and here we have the background check for every purchase and a ten day waiting period.  Also we have to wait thirty days between each gun purchase.  

[Fuzzbucket]

4 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

I am in favor of this idea because it is easy to implement and easy to enforce.  And I don't see any down side to this recommendation.  What you have suggested is a common sense solution.  I live in California and here we have the background check for every purchase and a ten day waiting period.  Also we have to wait thirty days between each gun purchase.  

 

One is enough. Well, more than enough, but I'm Canadian. So why allow second and further purchases ?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/kristatorres/uk-ended-school-shootings-us-is-failing

[AngelsSin]

What I find disturbing about this is the person/place that sold these to him. He is 18 an age that a lot of mass shooters are. The fact that he bought multiple assault rifles and no doubt a 💩 ton of bullets and the person who sold them to him didn't think that this was red flag worthy?? To me common sense would say this is a troubling sale and maybe not to sell to him. I feel like they should be held accountable for selling to him in what should have been flagged as a high risk sale.  To me no civilian should be owning an assault rifle and certainly no one who only literally just turned 18.  I feel like if places like that were held accountable for selling in a risky sale then maybe they would be much more careful in what and who they sell to, which would help this issue of mass shootings and start to care less about the money they make of such a sale when if it goes wrong they then will be hit with a lawsuit that you cost them big and maybe even their license to sell.

 

Also I do believe  SBR is right it is way too late to try to De-gun America and too many are unwilling to give their guns up and would only hide them so they can't be taken away. The best we can do is implement strict gun laws to prevent these horrors from happening. It is sad but it is what we have to work with. We have to work with the reality of our situation.

Edited May 28, 2022 by AngelsSin

[purplehaze]

No, we will never be able to get guns away from those who already have them. That is the claim that the NRA and others make to fire up gun owners -- "They are coming for your guns!" Even the simplest idea to increase the difficulty of getting guns sets off that refrain.

 

The leader of the NRA today called gun ownership "a basic human right"! Yet the people who might agree with him don't consider health care a basic human right and fight tooth and nail against any effort to improve access to affordable health care for all. What is wrong with this picture?

[AngelinDecline]

Well right now there is a lot of talk about repealing the 2nd amendment. And a lot of talk about expanding gun rights, which is just tone deaf considering what just happened and is still happening.

I did find an interesting article, In which S.C. J. Stevens talks about repealing it and the difference in judicial 2nd amendment and aspirational (political) 2nd amendment.

Article

 

Which is what i was talking about in my earlier post about people deliberately confusing the meaning to go with what they believe.

 

Passages from the article:

"There's also the presence of "permitless carry regimes," said Jake Charles, another gun law expert at Duke University, which is when legislatures interpret the Second Amendment as giving individuals the right to bear arms in public without a permit, an interpretation the Supreme Court has not made."

 

"Allison Anderman, senior counsel at the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, stressed that, in part because of the influence of state statutes, the Second Amendment should not be a barrier to gun regulation."

 

"Blocher agreed and argued the Second Amendment debate is among the most partisan in the nation.

"The gun debate has gone far beyond judicial interpretations of the Second Amendment and these days has much more to do with personal, political and partisan identity," he said."

[Astreya]

6 hours ago, AngelsSin said:

Also I do believe  SBR is right it is way too late to try to De-gun America and too many are unwilling to give their guns up and would only hide them so they can't be taken away. The best we can do is implement strict gun laws to prevent these horrors from happening. It is sad but it is what we have to work with. We have to work with the reality of our situation.

Maybe the government needs to take a lot of money into their hands and buy back the weapons? Plus make it mandatory to register all weapons with a unique registration number and every gun that doesn't have such a number can be seized and taken away.

 

 

To show you how weapons can be regulated, here's the situation in Germany. We do have 32 weapons per 100 persons here, which is a number that really amazes me (in a negative way), but we only have 0.06 gun homicides per 100 000 inhabitants (compared to 120 weapons per 100 persons and 4.46 gun homicides per 100 000 persons in the US). [Source]

 

By the way, I also find it striking that Germany has only 0.01 unintentional gun deaths, while the US is listed with 0.15 unintentional gun deaths per 100 000 population in the above link. IMO this shows that mandatory safety and proficiency courses and tests before one is allowed to own a weapon are pretty useful, too.

 

In Germany the authorities have the right to visit all registered gun owners in their homes without announcement and check all of their weapons and ammunition at any time. A person who owns a gun needs a "Waffenschein" (licence to own a gun that comes with background checks and legal, safety and proficiency tests) and a special weapons storage cabinet that needs to be properly locked all the time (and only the person with the weapons licence is allowed to have the keys/code). If the authorities find a weapon with a number not registered to that person, it will be seized (and all of the other weapons of that person, too) and the weapon licence with be revoked for 5 years.

 

Illegal ownership of a weapon is punished with pretty high punishments, like

- ownership of a signal pistol without a "small" weapon licence ("kleiner Waffenschein"): gets a fine of up to 10 000 euros

- ownership of a taser without licence - fine of up to 10 000 euros

- carrying a gun without licence - usually 1-5 years in prison (up to 10 years in criminal cases)

Source: https://www.bussgeldkatalog.net/waffengesetz/illegaler-waffenbesitz/

 

 

[AngelsSin]

25 minutes ago, Astreya said:

Maybe the government needs to take a lot of money into their hands and buy back the weapons? Plus make it mandatory to register all weapons with a unique registration number and every gun that doesn't have such a number can be seized and taken away.

 

I completely agree. Though like i said gun nuts and those who just like having guns would hide those guns. I do like the idea of a mandatory gun registry though. As well as the consequences for violating them.

But people would still hide them and they do get creative about it, even now, paranoid buggers, afraid of the government taking their guns. But Republicans would almost completely, one and all, reject such an idea. And you Would need their support. It would take a very, very long time to get people on board with it though, and a long drawn out legal battle taken all the way to the Supreme Court and constantly would be appealed. At least for the idea of them taking/buying back the guns and many would demand insane amounts of money. Lawsuits galore. The u.s. does love their lawsuits.

 

I think having a gun should be just like having a hunting license. Something you need to have to hunt as well as an educational license to show you know and understand the law regarding hunting.  And it must be renewed. That should at the very LEAST be applied to guns. As well as background checks and permits, etc. 

 

Also sorry for the confusion with different accounts (angelindecline) my phone signed me out of everything and i never sign out so i forgot my password. Ended up getting my old account signed in and had trouble with the new one/and got locked out. Didn't even realize till after i posted my last post that i wasn't logged in to my new account.😅

Edited May 28, 2022 by AngelsSin

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety's investigation into the massacre at Robb Elementary School and the state's review of the law enforcement response, multiple law enforcement sources tell ABC News. - https://abcnews.go.com/US/uvalde-police-school-district-longer-cooperating-texas-probe/story?id=85093405

[purplehaze]

And yet another angry person with a gun starts shooting people.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/tulsa-mass-shooter-allegedly-gunned-doctor-pain/story?id=85131370

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/02/tulsa-shooting-hospital-oklahoma

Edited June 2, 2022 by purplehaze

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

Uvalde Police Enlist Biker Groups to Block Reporters Covering Funerals:

 

"Police and bikers told members of the press covering the Thursday ceremony outside Rushing-Estes Knowles Mortuary that they would be arrested for stepping outside of designated areas, according to the Houston Chronicle. Even though members of the media were covering the memorial from a distance, bikers physically obstructed cameras and followed reporters."

 

 

 

 

Uvalde local government was like "What's decision can we make to make ourselves look even more guilty? Let's do that"

[Fuzzbucket]

 

Says it all. They KNOW - but they don't care.

[hazeh]

Until this country implements and enforces a nation-wide uniform gun control (I'd love to see regulation that parallels how we regulate cars-- register the firearms, get a license that needs renewing, take safety courses, pass specific health/mental health parameters as well as increase gun ownership age to 21, delay large capacity magazine and bullet purchases) then we will always be going in a circle and encountering these problems. This has long superseded the capacity of the States to handle because it is directly creating conflict between gun control states and gun lax states. 

 

Personally, I don't believe gun ownership is a right. I really don't care what the Constitution says. I think that's ridiculous. But I'm not going to consider gun bans as a worthwhile course of action, either (though high-capacity magazine automatic weapons, even semi-automatics tbh, I don't believe belong in a civilian's hands. I think purchases like that need to have extra certification/permissions to own in the case of hunters claiming to need AR-15s to control wild boars). If people want to foam at the mouth over their weapons, fine. Whatever. Keep them. But you better prove you know how to use that thing safely or yeah, it should be taken from you by force. IMO, if you're a responsible gun owner, you wouldn't be crying foul over gun control and restrictions-- you'd understand the necessity and, if you truly are responsible, you'd be able to comply with the restrictions for the betterment of your society. Boggles my mind how many people in the United States have insulated themselves so much from society that they're willing to put others in danger for the pleasure of owning a goddamn death machine. Being an American shouldn't be an identity about any singular person-- it should be about caring for our country, which is the PEOPLE IN IT, and not our material possessions. 

 

 

[JaneMcAsh]

AMEN @hazeh

I live in Austin, Texas & have granddaughters in school here & have been bouncing between anger at the IDIOTs who won't agree to any sensible gun regulations & crying for the kids & families in Uvalde.  

Edited June 9, 2022 by JaneMcAsh

[purplehaze]

@hazeh I couldn't have said it better.

 

I do not believe our constitution gives anybody and everybody the right to own any old kind of gun they want. The 2nd amendment argument totally ignores the well-regulated militia part! Also the fact that the "arms" they were bearing in those days were nowhere near as dangerous and deadly as the firearms available now.

 

And gun ownership is NOT a God-given right!! Get real!

 

@JaneMcAsh I am with you. I have a granddaughter the same age as those children in Uvalde who were slaughtered in their school! It breaks my heart and makes me fear for my granddaughter and children everywhere in this country. I cried to hear the testimony of that poor girl who testified in Congress. Her life will never be the same! Anyone who puts guns ahead of children is simply criminal in my mind!

 

Putting armed police in our schools, or worse yet, arming teachers! only makes the problem worse, not better!

 

The House has passed a gun bill. It is not enough. But even that weak bill stands no hope in the Senate. Sad, but true. I am afraid that we truly have no hope of getting any meaningful law passed. The majority of the American people are demanding action, but our leaders are afraid to act. Afraid of the gun lobby, the NRA, the gun manufacturers, the extreme right-wing groups who demand their "rights". Afraid they won't be able to get reelected. If it doesn't happen now, while this massacre is fresh in everyone's mind, how will it have a chance ever?

 

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by purplehaze

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

The Republicans only care about winning the midterms and blaming everything on the Democrats. Their idea of acceptable  collateral damage is everything else. They're even biting the hands of their donors.

[Lagie]

Did anyone else watch the January 6th hearing last night? (There's some discussion about it in the CPA thread.) Gut wrenching. 

[purplehaze]

Republicans countering with "Where's the hearing on murder attempts on Supreme Court justices?" and "Where's the prime time hearing on $5 gas prices?"

They want to talk about anything but the Jan 6 hearings. Or they are blaming Nancy Pelosi for not providing enough defense for the Capitol. (WHAT?) Or anything at all to divert attention.

And Fox News refused to air the hearings, so the people who most need to see them will not get the chance.

Will minds be changed? Not the really set in stone ones, but maybe enough.

I liked what Liz Cheney said to the Republican supporters of Trump. "There will come a day when Donald Trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain." I think Liz Cheney stands out as the most courageous and honorable Republican in the country right now.

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

Most of what I heard in this hearing wasn't new to me. There have been more arrests for 1/6th participation ahead of the hearing - at least two Republican candidates.  A lot of the video of the 1/6th attack was hard for me to follow. Too many voices mingled together and stuff happening too close to the camera.

 

 

Rep. Troy Nehls (R-Texas)  made a disgusting statement yesterday ahead of the hearing.

"They're going to find probably the worst couple minutes they can find on people being assaulted here, law enforcement being assaulted. They're going to get the sobbing police officer or sobbing Democrat or somebody that said how terrible this was and now they're suffering from PTSD. ... They're going to put on a show for the American people." "They’re not seeking the truth. … They're trying to find a way to keep Donald Trump off the ballot in 2024. That’s all this is about."

 

The day before he thanked the Capitol Police for arresting a fake journalist that had been stalking him. An actual fake, a guy with no media credentials but claimed he was a independent reporter. 

 

Rep. Troy Nehls also had the Capitol Police visit his office back in February and has been complaining ever since. Seems like he has something to hide.

 

[trystan]

back in 2017 when it was confirmed that trump wasn't doing presidential things presidentially and having NO regard for how things are done in washington, i had said that it should be the Republicans who should be the ones to call for impeachment, mainly on the grounds that he was unfit to lead the country.

 

this did not happen.

the rethuglicans were rejoicing that the leader of their party was doing and saying things that the restraint of decorum prevented them from doing in the past.  and now that they could say the quiet parts out loud - and have NO repercussions - they rejoiced and kept doing it.  they're still doing it.

 

it's why republican representatives like Liz Cheney will most likely be primaried by a trumpist; or someone like Representative Chris Jacobs, a republican who represents Buffalo, NY is no longer running for re-election (he said he would support a ban on assault weapons, which is NOT the rethuglican party line).  these modern rethuglicans have renounced the "party of personal responsibility" and have turned into something reprehensible. 

 

i applaud the Jan 6 committee.  i fervently continue to hope that Adam Kinzinger (R-IL) and people like him would stop resigning and run for re-election.  or maybe form a whole new party, that stands for actual, historic republican values.

 

people out there will say that former presidents are protected by laws and traditions, and they would never have criminal charges brought against them, even for fomenting an insurrection.  but the thing is, we've never had a president, former or otherwise, foment and instigate an insurrection.

 

until now.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by trystan

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

13 hours ago, trystan said:

these modern rethuglicans have renounced the "party of personal responsibility" and have turned into something reprehensible. 

The party of retaliation 

 

And personal responsibility always meant 'let me tell you how this is your own fault that you're not succeeding. It's not the system. It's you.' 

[trystan]

10 hours ago, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

The party of retaliation 

agreed.

 

i'm pretty sure republicans from once upon a time ago wouldn't even recognize those that call themselves republicans now.

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2022/jun/11/large-group-of-masked-men-detained-in-coeur-dalene/

31 masked Patriot Front members arrested in charges of "conspiracy  to riot" Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, near Pride in the Park. Only one was from Idaho, police said, with others from Washington, Arkansas, Colorado, Texas, Wyoming and other states. Patriot Front is described by the Southern Poverty Law Center as “a white nationalist hate group.” 

 

Police Chief Lee White said the group evidently “came to riot downtown.” White said the group also had “paperwork” that appeared similar to a police or military operations plan. White said a tipster called police about what looked like “a little army” getting into a U-Haul Saturday morning.

Police caught up with the group and arrested the 31 members, some of whom had shields, shin guards and other riot gear. One had a smoke grenade, White said. 

Apparently 33 people in the U-Haul, not 31.

 

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2022/jun/12/sheriffs-office-releases-names-of-31-patriot-front/

Edited June 12, 2022 by Long_Before_Sunrise

[trystan]

... yeah, that's totally not a peaceable assemblage there.....

[purplehaze]

So, the Senators working on gun legislation have reached a "compromise" proposal. While the measures that they have agreed on are a good beginning, they are far from enough. Forgive me for thinking that the Republicans have just agreed to a bare minimum so they can make political hay by being able to tout themselves as "doing something." However none of the measures proposed actually prohibit or regulate any kind of guns or ammunition. So they can placate the people clamoring for action without giving up anything that their gun toting friends hold dear. How is that a compromise?

[Bigbite]

6 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

So, the Senators working on gun legislation have reached a "compromise" proposal. While the measures that they have agreed on are a good beginning, they are far from enough. Forgive me for thinking that the Republicans have just agreed to a bare minimum so they can make political hay by being able to tout themselves as "doing something." However none of the measures proposed actually prohibit or regulate any kind of guns or ammunition. So they can placate the people clamoring for action without giving up anything that their gun toting friends hold dear. How is that a compromise?

It's not. Republicans care more about the cash they have than children in schools.