American Politics

[stormydreams]

As a woman in my early 20s living in the southern US, this is quite possibly one of the most terrifying things I have ever woken up to see. It's been on my mind constantly since I first saw news of it. The fact that a bunch of ignorant and privileged old men get to decide the fate of every single woman in the nation is so unbelievably horrifying to me.  And as has already been stated earlier on in the thread, this isn't just about abortion. By striking down Roe, the SCOTUS can threaten rights to contraceptives, gay marriage, and a litany of other matters that should be private and none of their business. I'm afraid for myself and for millions of other people in this country who are now under threat of having their rights ripped out from under them. 

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

The Republicans promised to ban abortion for decades to get votes. Well, they convinced members of their own party that banning abortion was a righteous goal and now they want to achieve that goal and win. 

 

They win and everyone loses.

[TheScorpionKing]

14 hours ago, AngelsSin said:

 

Yeah, dude it's called a shoot-out. Vigilante justice is beyond stupid and dangerous. Such a great thing (sarcasm).

And you still need a permit to carry they are talking about no permits no background checks,etc. And possibly open carry. I can see all the ways that will go wrong. After all this IS FLORIDA!

 

We are not talking just about FLORIDA, dude.

 

Every red state is doing this. Better check it out.

The border states are carrying openly since January 6.

You think every American carrying a concealed weapon has a permit?

Hah. 

Good guys don't have "shoot-outs" with other good guys.

 

Nothing wrong with vigilante justice

when you have a bunch of screwies running the government,

that are unable to protect their own citizens.

 

Since you didn't understand the first article I posted,

here is another one,

just for you. 

Six More States Allow Concealed Guns Without Permit | Crime and Justice News | ASU

 

.

 

 

 

[Kaini]

On 5/2/2022 at 9:34 PM, TheScorpionKing said:

I personally don't understand what people don't understand about the 2nd Amendment.

The government shall not infringe on the right of the American people to bear arms.

 

Have you read the second Amendment, as it's actually written in the constitution? 

 

The actual text is "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

A well regulated Militia. The 2nd amendment is referring to the organization of a well regulated (regulated! As in rules!) Militia's right to bear arms, when it is necessary for the security of a free state. Not the average American citizen. The constitution was also written in a time where pistols and rifles were one-shot deals, and not the automatic weapons of today. No matter where you stand on owning any kind of weapon (I am not altogether against it with regulations and rules) you are misquoting the constitution. 

[TheScorpionKing]

22 hours ago, Kaini said:

 

Have you read the second Amendment, as it's actually written in the constitution? 

 

The actual text is "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

A well regulated Militia. The 2nd amendment is referring to the organization of a well regulated (regulated! As in rules!) Militia's right to bear arms, when it is necessary for the security of a free state. Not the average American citizen. The constitution was also written in a time where pistols and rifles were one-shot deals, and not the automatic weapons of today. No matter where you stand on owning any kind of weapon (I am not altogether against it with regulations and rules) you are misquoting the constitution. 

 

No, you are misinterpreting the 2nd Amendment.

You quoted the 2nd Amendment.

You don't understand it.  

 

There are two distinct parts to the 2nd Amendment.

Since it was ratified in 1791 it has always been interpreted that way. 

 

Part 1.  A well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state.

Part 2.  The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

It is estimated that there are over 300 million gun owners in United States.

They are not a well regulated militia, nor are they a ghost army.

They are ranchers, farmers, homeowners, hunters, doctors, teachers, lawyers,

just regular American civilians. 

 

The Constitution limits the power of the government,

not the power of We The People. 

We have an absolute right to own and us firearms.

 

I don't understand why people don't understand that. 

 

American Gun Facts | A Factual Look at Guns in America

 

how many gun owners in america - Search (bing.com)

 

 

 

 

[AngelsSin]

On 5/3/2022 at 9:36 PM, TheScorpionKing said:

 

We are not talking just about FLORIDA, dude.

 

Every red state is doing this. Better check it out.

The border states are carrying openly since January 6.

You think every American carrying a concealed weapon has a permit?

Hah. 

Good guys don't have "shoot-outs" with other good guys.

 

Nothing wrong with vigilante justice

when you have a bunch of screwies running the government,

that are unable to protect their own citizens.

 

Since you didn't understand the first article I posted,

here is another one,

just for you. 

Six More States Allow Concealed Guns Without Permit | Crime and Justice News | ASU

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

Once again DUDE, vigilante justice is dangerous for obvious reasons but here let me point out so YOU Can Understand

This - vigilante kills 9 year old girl is why it is dangerous for any yahoo Like yourself taking justice into your hands. You think you know best but there are plenty of morons who have guns legally and still don't know how to properly use them and in a high stress environment don't have the best judgement. And that's just those who have them legally. There is a reason for rules and laws and restrictions. Let not even get into the fact that countries who don't allow their citizens the right to guns happen to have significantly lower crime/death rates for gun violence. But sure lets go with your way of thinking cause that has worked out soooooo well. With all the mass shooting in schools, nightclubs, incidents like with Ahmaud Arbery,  Trayvon Martin, etc, yes let anyone who wants a gun have the right to buy it no questions asked, no background check and openly carry it around. You want to support that let it be you or your family who pays the price see if you still feel the same.

[KrazyKarp]

On 5/3/2022 at 3:36 PM, stormydreams said:

The fact that a bunch of ignorant and privileged old men get to decide the fate of every single woman in the nation is so unbelievably horrifying to me.

A horrifying aspect of this is it's not just old men. There's plenty of women against abortion as well (e.g. my mother), and the idea of women being against an aspect of women's rights is deeply disturbing to me. Of course, don't get me wrong, anyone being against abortion regardless of their identity is disturbing to me, but it's especially uncomfortable when you have a subset of people being against their own rights. I just mean to say it's not only a set of men who need to be held accountable for what's happening, but also a set of women, too.

Edited May 5, 2022 by KrazyKarp

[trystan]

6 minutes ago, KrazyKarp said:

the idea of women being against an aspect of women's rights is deeply disturbing to me. Of course, don't get me wrong, anyone being against abortion regardless of their identity is disturbing to me, but it's especially uncomfortable when you have a subset of people being against their own rights.

i completely agree with you here.  it makes no sense to me either.

[stormydreams]

8 hours ago, KrazyKarp said:

A horrifying aspect of this is it's not just old men. There's plenty of women against abortion as well (e.g. my mother), and the idea of women being against an aspect of women's rights is deeply disturbing to me. Of course, don't get me wrong, anyone being against abortion regardless of their identity is disturbing to me, but it's especially uncomfortable when you have a subset of people being against their own rights. I just mean to say it's not only a set of men who need to be held accountable for what's happening, but also a set of women, too.

100% agreed. It's shocking to me that there are women who are okay with being treated like walking incubators. I don't understand how they can ever be okay with what is happening--and how they (and the men who are against abortion as well) can stand against this issue and then offer no feasible alternatives. It's just mind-boggling, seriously... like if you're going to be against abortion, you should at least offer help to the women who you forced to bear children they never wanted. 

[Lagie]

Maybe those that agree with the men have bought into the men's warped idea?

 

[purplehaze]

The people who are screaming about being pro-life are really NOT. They are simply anti-abortion no matter what -- no exceptions for rape or incest, no concern for the health of the mother. They care nothing for that life after the child is born. Mom is on her own to raise that baby best she can and the so-called pro-lifers are most often also against any "welfare" to help her out!

 

I have never been, and still am not, pro-abortion, but I do see a need for a woman and her doctor to be able to decide when it is an appropriate choice.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by purplehaze

[KrazyKarp]

10 hours ago, Lagie said:

Maybe those that agree with the men have bought into the men's warped idea?

Perhaps partially. I'm in no way an expert on the topic, but my impression is that religion can be a considerable influence on what someone's stance on abortion is. Of course, in the case of Catholicism/Christianity, the Bible definitely gives off "this was written by men for men" vibes at multiple points (e.g. not particularly a coincidence that God, Jesus, and his disciples were all male - I bet if men could give birth, Mary would've been male, too!), so that particular case of religion would seemingly lead back to what you've said.

[trystan]

6 minutes ago, KrazyKarp said:

but my impression is that religion can be a considerable influence on what someone's stance on abortion is.

this is a part of it, some religions are staunch anti-abortion.

 

i just posted this link on my facebook feed, and it seemed right here now: An Annotated Directory of the Prochoice Religious Community in the United States

[AsymDoll13]

American politics make me exhausted. 

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

So you have heard about Florida governor DeSantis feuding with Disney World?

 

A new opponent has appeared!

 

Josh Hawley has introduced new anti-Disney legislation targeting copyrights over 56 years old. 

 

Hawley said in a press release that “the age of Republican handouts to Big Business is over.”

[Astreya]

From what I read, the "Blue States" seem to be richer than the "Red States" and there appears to be a substantial flow of money from these to the others - what would happen if the Blue States decided to keep their money to finance the stuff that the Red States want to abolish to be able to provide such services to people who have to become refugees from the Red States?

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

No one really knows. The Republican party and now the Supreme Court of the United States are declaring precedent decisions as 'not covered by the Constitution.'  This could mean revoking laws that people have lived by and relied on their entire lives. 

 

Some Republicans said last year they wanted chaos leading up to the midterm elections.

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

Supreme Court Justice Alito Calls Landmark Supreme Court Decision Expanding LGBTQ Worker Rights ‘Indefensible’

“It is inconceivable that either Congress or voters in 1964 understood discrimination because of sex to mean discrimination because of sexual orientation, much less gender identity,” Alito said. “If Title VII had been understood at that time to mean what Bostock held it to mean, the prohibition on discrimination because of sex would never have been enacted. In fact, it might not have gotten a single vote in Congress.”

 

He is talking about the Civil Rights Act of 1964... the end of Jim Crow laws and segregation. 

[trystan]

i shared this on facebook today.

the weirdest thing was the other day, in my ranting at the story on CNN (or MSNBC?), i yelled at the TV: "The Handmaid's Tale is fiction, not an instruction manual! what woudl Margaret Atwood have to say about that?"

well......

I INVENTED GILEAD. THE SUPREME COURT IS MAKING IT REAL. I thought I was writing fiction in The Handmaid’s Tale.

By Margaret Atwood

(from the Atlantic)

Edited May 14, 2022 by trystan

[Marcus Pheonix]

Looking on from accross the pond I think it fair to say the biggest problem is with the US's whole electoral system. It needs to be completely rebuilt from the ground up to align with modern governing. Situations like this where 80% of the country's population being ignored infavour of the few extremists is something that shouldn't happen.

It and brexxit are 2 reasons now why i'm happy we have compulsory voting here because I'm sure there are thousands of people who disagree with everything thats happened that just never vote because they don't have to.

 

I'm hoping things will turn around for the better over there.

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

2 hours ago, Marcus Pheonix said:

because I'm sure there are thousands of people who disagree with everything thats happened that just never vote because they don't have to.

You are correct. The US replaced civics classes after the Civil Rights Act with social studies and a high school class on government in most cases. Generations grew up thinking politics doesn't matter that much in their lives and it'll work itself out and their vote doesn't really matter.

[StormBirdRising]

4 hours ago, Marcus Pheonix said:

 

I'm hoping things will turn around for the better over there.

 

Thanks.  But it might be too late for the United States to hang on to our democracy and our capitalist way of life.  It is very scary to me because I have never seen Americans so willing to become slaves to our federal government. We have had 2 predominant parties, the Democrats and the Republicans, with an Independent party and several other parties, like the Green Party, special interest parties, things like that. 

Now, I don't even recognize the Democrat Party anymore; they were always for the people and now they are just for the federal government.  And the Republican Party is going the other way, with no regard at all for the federal government.  Twenty nine states have banded together to protect our southern border because the border wall was stopped and there are not enough border patrol to protect it.  The supply chain is broken,  gasoline has doubled in price, there is a shortage of baby formula so severe that parents are watering it down, which is not healthy, or trying to make their own, which they really don't know how to do that.  It is very scary to see these things happening.  

As I was growing up I learned from my parents and from school that the most important thing was the vote.  That every vote counts, but after the last election I don't know anymore.  It is very sad to me that my vote may have meant nothing,  and maybe it never meant anything. 

I love my country, but I wish I could run away from it right now, and live somewhere else in happiness, but there is no place to go. 

[AsymDoll13]

If we want true Democracy, we'd need to look toward Ancient Greece from my understanding. 

[KrazyKarp]

Imo we have two parties running our government that care more about defeating the opposing party than actually taking care of the country. If the other parties were actually given a voice, if we actually made room for more of the other parties in government, maybe we could try to balance power better. I've got opinions that align with Democrats, but also some that align with Republicans. My impression is that what I've got to say doesn't matter as much in the government as the people with 100% extremist loyalty to one of the parties. Just the fact that we had extremist Republican riots at the Capitol and extremist Democrat riots with BLM, neither of which had enough police intervention, is enough of a sign that we've got to do some major change.

[Kaini]

Re: The argument that 'the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, and so everyone should have a gun' ...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/buffalo-supermarket-mass-shooting-leaves-7-dead-law-enforcement-source-rcna28883

 

This shooting occurred in a supermarket. An eighteen year old walked in with a gun and tactical gear and shot ten or so people.

There was an armed security guard, a 'good guy with a gun'. He heroically tried to stop the shooter and even shot him accurately, but was stopped by the shooter's tactical gear/bulletproof vest. He was shot and killed.

 

The good guy with a gun did not stop him. Even when the 'good guy' was a trained security guard and former police officer. He tried to stop this kid and died, and the kid went on to shoot more people.

So no, I do not believe in 'vigilante justice'.  It obviously does not work. I believe the eighteen year old killer should never have had access to a gun or tactical gear in the first place, and that would have prevented these deaths and this tragedy. No one should have to worry about being shot in a supermarket shopping for groceries.

That child should never have had access to a gun. Period.

Obviously there are other factors in play - the shooting was a hate crime, the eighteen year old believed in a conspiracy 'replacement theory' and was a white supremacist. There's something else messed up in society if a child decides his race is superior and the only want to enforce this is by murdering other human beings.

But it would certainly help if he didn't have access to deadly weapons.