Meat

[blackruby]

Vegetarianism is completely unnatural and all historic diets contained at least a small amount of meat.

Eh, it's just as natural as pumping cows and chickens with antibiotics and growth hormones. Plus it doesn't really matter what people did in the past; humans adapt to their environment pretty efficiently and can change if needed.

Edited December 13, 2011 by blackruby

[Syaoransbear]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I'm finding that as I get older I'm starting to like meat less and less. I won't eat chicken because chicken is so boring, and I hate pork(I don't even like bacon). Sometimes I go months without having any meat because I enjoy dairy and pasta so much more.

 

I had some organic beef recently, and I can honestly say I hated it. The flavor was so strong that I couldn't eat the dish I had made. I fed it to my dog. It put me off of beef, because if the only kind of beef I like is beef where the flavor has been altered by improper care of the animal, then maybe I'm just not a beef fan.

 

It's kind of just a flavor thing vs a moral thing, which is why I don't cut meat out of my life completely. I'll eat meat at fine dining restaurants that know how to make even the worst cuts mouth watering, but I don't normally cook it at home. I had a really good steak a while ago at a very classy restaurant, but I think it was just the marinade that made it good.

 

Vegetarianism doesn't really make sense to me because(at least here) you have to import so much food from other countries to sustain yourself. It doesn't seem natural to me.

[PrincessLucy]

I love beef. I would eat it every meal if I could.

 

Unfortunately, the doctor wants me to not eat too much meat, as I have kidney stone issues, and animal protein is a big no-no for me.

 

I am supposed to go meatless every third day. Yeah, that's not happening. I try at least 1 meatless meal every couple of days. It's better than nothing, right?

[Volatile]

It is indeed possible to supplement the human diet in such a way as to be able to forgo meat. It is also true that while more animals die in the long run when farming plant foodstuffs, the animals which perish will not have undergone terrible, tortured lives, such as those kept for meat often have.

 

But I eat meat anyway. I enjoy the taste of meat (many kinds), and can't really afford to be choosy about my sources, so I'll protest the crueler methods through other venues than complete abstinence.

 

Here's hoping we hurry up with growing petri dish meat, eh?

[Packgoater]

It is indeed possible to supplement the human diet in such a way as to be able to forgo meat. It is also true that while more animals die in the long run when farming plant foodstuffs, the animals which perish will not have undergone terrible, tortured lives, such as those kept for meat often have.

I just want to point out that if we're using the whole farming-vegetables-kills-mice-because-of-the-harvester argument, then farming cows kills the most animals of all. The majority of corn grown in the US isn't for human consumption, but for cows. So most of the stuff harvested is being harvested as unhealthy food for the cow. Really, farming an animal kills the most, and the food that's given to the said animal that's being farmed usually isn't good for them.

 

Eating vegetarian can be perfectly natural and healthy. Unlike popular belief, you don't always need to take vitamin supplements if your diet is healthy enough. And you don't always have to import stuff either. Not everyone wants the fake meat stuff, and my best friend only buys organic local stuff to eat as a vegetarian and she's a gymnast.

 

I personally don't buy locally, true, because I'm rather fond of certain fake meats. I've never eaten meat, and honestly, I don't plan to. In fact, I can't without my life sucking for awhile.

 

I've never build up anything in my stomach to break meat down. If I ate meat I would have a long period of throwing up, and if that wasn't enough to deter me from the meat, it would happen several times until my body finally got used to eating it. So yeah, not fun.

[Kai]

Eh, it's just as natural as pumping cows and chickens with antibiotics and growth hormones. Plus it doesn't really matter what people did in the past; humans adapt to their environment pretty efficiently and can change if needed.

False dichotomy you got there.

 

There's nutrients that you can only get from meat. Adapting isn't an easy piece of cake, it usually means that anyone who can't take it dies.

[Sir Barton]

Eating meat is healthier and more natural then eating grain based diets that most vegetarian diets end up consisting of. If an food product has to be chemically altered to make it safe to eat common sense says that we weren't meant to eat it. Most health problems in the US come from eating corn, wheat and other grains. Grains have toxic components that have to be stripped or cooked away to make them edible. Rule of thumb, if you can't eat it raw and it's something that you wouldn't be able to harvest relatively easy by natural forging you most likely shouldn't eat it.

[tanglepelt3]

I think eating meat is fine because some things are carnivores and if carnivores don't eat meat, they die.

[AlternateMew]

Eating meat is healthier and more natural then eating grain based diets that most vegetarian diets end up consisting of. If an food product has to be chemically altered to make it safe to eat common sense says that we weren't meant to eat it. Most health problems in the US come from eating corn, wheat and other grains. Grains have toxic components that have to be stripped or cooked away to make them edible. Rule of thumb, if you can't eat it raw and it's something that you wouldn't be able to harvest relatively easy by natural forging you most likely shouldn't eat it.

Er- we can eat meat raw? Last I heard eating raw meat was a big no-no.

 

I do agree on the first part - a varied diet including meat is indeed the healthiest. For the common protein concern, the reason meat is considered the source of protein is because it contains complete protein more compatible with our systems than the combination of non-flesh foods required to get complete proteins otherwise. Being the best source does not make it the only source, however.

 

For those who are vegetarian "because it's healthier" - no. Varied diets that include meat are healthier. We are omnivores for a reason. Just be smart about what kind and how much (serving size) meat you eat, and you're fine. For those who are vegetarian knowing this full well - good for you. For those of you that still eat eggs and dairy but claim that you're vegetarian for moral/ethical reasons, shame on us. The cows and chickens suffer horribly for this stuff. Unless you have soy/rice milk and farm your own eggs. Then you're fine.

 

And yes, I said us. As I'm typing this, I'm eating normal mint chocolate chip ice cream. Living with normal meat eaters and not having your own funds does that to you. Never the less, I am such a hypocrite.

 

Also, what Packgoater said. Also, I believe that Vitamin B12 - an important vitamin that you only need a small amount of - is the only actual vitamin that is not obtainable from a plant source (I get it from milk/eggs). Anyone care to correct me or add to that one-item list?

[Nectaris]

Er- we can eat meat raw? Last I heard eating raw meat was a big no-no.

 

Only because of potential contamination as well as personal taste. If you trust your meat source you can eat meat raw. Tar-tars, carpaccio(link), and sushi are all examples of meats eaten raw. Chicken, yes, that is one you never want to eat raw, and maybe pork as well, but I know fish, beef, and some other animals are ok to eat the meat raw.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Nectaris

[Packgoater]

For those who are vegetarian "because it's healthier" - no. Varied diets that include meat are healthier. We are omnivores for a reason. Just be smart about what kind and how much (serving size) meat you eat, and you're fine. For those who are vegetarian knowing this full well - good for you. For those of you that still eat eggs and dairy but claim that you're vegetarian for moral/ethical reasons, shame on us. The cows and chickens suffer horribly for this stuff. Unless you have soy/rice milk and farm your own eggs. Then you're fine.

 

And yes, I said us. As I'm typing this, I'm eating normal mint chocolate chip ice cream. Living with normal meat eaters and not having your own funds does that to you. Never the less, I am such a hypocrite.

 

Also, what Packgoater said. Also, I believe that Vitamin B12 - an important vitamin that you only need a small amount of - is the only actual vitamin that is not obtainable from a plant source (I get it from milk/eggs). Anyone care to correct me or add to that one-item list?

Okay, most of this I agree with. So:

 

1. It can be healthier, in some cases. Being vegetarian is better for you than overdosing on meat. Also, in general vegetarians live longer, because of the people who are vegetarian for health reasons, they tend to be more concerned about health. We also tend to be more aware of what we eat, especially if we don't eat gelatin. If you don't eat gelatin you're constantly reading through labels and are pretty much aware completely of what you eat. Of course, this can also apply to anyone who reads all the labels on all the food they eat.

 

2. I'm mostly in it for moral reasons. If you don't eat milk or eggs then you're a vegan, not vegetarian. I only eat my chickens eggs, and I only drink local milk where the cows aren't impregnated every year. I also only buy pasture-fed cow milk.

 

3. I get my B12 intake from several things including peanut butter, I believe. Regardless, I do get it somewhere, mostly from milk and eggs.

 

4. If we stop eating grains and only eat raw food, we're going to be unhealthy. If we only eat meat we're going to be unhealthy. I'm really not unhealthy, I'm easily the most fit and active person in my class. A lot of health problems come from obesity, and most Americans that are obese are those that eat high percentages of meat. And the things we eat -our fake meat- shouldn't be regarded as something "disgusting" or "unnatural." Our way of "hunting" is unnatural. Giving feed-lot cows corn to eat is unnatural. Having to give those cows you eat antibiotics just so they can survive is unnatural. Having them penned up closely together standing in their own poop is unnatural. Cows, for god's sake, are unnatural.

[Kai]

agriculture is unnatural

[7Deadly$ins]

The point about being vegetarian for moral reasons wasn't a misunderstanding of vegetarian/vegan. I think vegetarians for moral reasons are frankly hypocritical. If it's for morality's sake, then go vegan. The cows and the chickens that produce these products suffer just as much if not more so than the ones used for meat.

[Riku-Heartilly]

I practically live off of meat. I adore it very much.

Though recently I just can't stand hamburgers in general (Due to getting sick from eating one, makes my stomach uneasy just thinking about it.).

 

In regards to others food habits and choices when it comes to meat; It's really their choice, I'm not going to yell or stomp my feet at a vegan or vegetarian for their personal choices. It's their choice, they're allowed to eat whatever they want since it's their body.

 

I just want/expect people to treat and respect my own decisions with what I eat as well.

[Packgoater]

The point about being vegetarian for moral reasons wasn't a misunderstanding of vegetarian/vegan. I think vegetarians for moral reasons are frankly hypocritical. If it's for morality's sake, then go vegan. The cows and the chickens that produce these products suffer just as much if not more so than the ones used for meat.

Chickens don't go through any suffering. They lay eggs no matter what. I have my own chickens, free-range chickens. They don't go through anything bad at all. Most of the milk I drink comes from our goats. Our goats are perfectly healthy, and not a single goat is culled. We use the males for packgoating. Is this hypocritical? Really?

[7Deadly$ins]

Chickens don't go through any suffering. They lay eggs no matter what. I have my own chickens, free-range chickens. They don't go through anything bad at all. Most of the milk I drink comes from our goats. Our goats are perfectly healthy, and not a single goat is culled. We use the males for packgoating. Is this hypocritical? Really?

It's not that they're suffering because they're laying eggs, it's because of the conditions they're in. If you have your own chickens that are well-provided for it's different. But in a supermarket, even "free-range" doesn't always mean what people think.

 

There are always exceptions to things, obviously.

[Nine]

But in a supermarket, even "free-range" doesn't always mean what people think.

Yeah, that's why I always tell people to go for Organic and not "free-range". I believe in most places you need to go through special requirements to obtain an 'organic' stamp of approval. Many companies use the 'free-range' shtick as a way to take advantage of people's concern for the animals. When it comes to animal products, you'd be surprised how readily empathy is taken advantage of.

 

I recently found out that Sweden, Germany, Austria, and a few other European countries have banned the practice of battery caged hens. That's the kind of stuff I like to hear, though admittedly, animal welfare bills and laws should be moving a lot faster than they are currently.

[Packgoater]

If I ever buy eggs they're local, organic and actually from some friends of mine, so I know what their place is like.

 

Good for those European countries! Next we have to work on the regulations for animal testing and banning feed lots. Oh, and get this whole thing started in the US, where I live. DX

[Princess Artemis]

It's not that they're suffering because they're laying eggs, it's because of the conditions they're in. If you have your own chickens that are well-provided for it's different. But in a supermarket, even "free-range" doesn't always mean what people think.

 

There are always exceptions to things, obviously.

Looked like the point was, "It's not morally wrong to eat eggs because chickens, by nature, lay eggs and this causes them no suffering." So to call a large number of someones hypocrites for eating eggs because they are ethical vegetarians is a show of ignorance. It is not the exception that "laying eggs causes chickens no suffering." That's the rule. The exception is chickens kept in awful conditions.

 

Ethical vegetarians who eat eggs and cheese have one thing in common: they are all individuals, just like everyone else. It's not such a stretch to imagine then that some, perhaps most! know where to get eggs and cheese that agree with their ethics, rather than to default that they are all hypocrites for not following your vision of ethical vegetarianism.

[rogue-fox]

wELL TECHNICALLY, Humans are carnivores. People have meat cutting ang crunching teeth, but veggies and ruits can be eaten. Personally im an omnivore like everyone else.

[Kestra15]

The point about being vegetarian for moral reasons wasn't a misunderstanding of vegetarian/vegan. I think vegetarians for moral reasons are frankly hypocritical. If it's for morality's sake, then go vegan. The cows and the chickens that produce these products suffer just as much if not more so than the ones used for meat.

This, as usual.

[7Deadly$ins]

wELL TECHNICALLY, Humans are carnivores. People have meat cutting ang crunching teeth, but veggies and ruits can be eaten. Personally im an omnivore like everyone else.

We're omnivores. Our teeth are omnivorous. We have "herbivore" molar teeth and "carnivore" canine teeth.

[Kestra15]

Ethical vegetarians who eat eggs and cheese have one thing in common: they are all individuals, just like everyone else. It's not such a stretch to imagine then that some, perhaps most! know where to get eggs and cheese that agree with their ethics, rather than to default that they are all hypocrites for not following your vision of ethical vegetarianism.

I've yet to meet a real-life 'ethical vegetarian' who does. They all buy their milk, honey and eggs from supermarkets like the rest of us they sneer upon.

[Princess Artemis]

I've yet to meet a real-life 'ethical vegetarian' who does. They all buy their milk, honey and eggs from supermarkets like the rest of us they sneer upon.

I've never met a real-life vegan. Does that mean they don't exist? Does that give me the right and privilege to assume that all people on the Internet everywhere who lay claim to the title are liars? Not only that, but does it give such an observation validity?

 

If so, then I will grant that you not only have the privilege to call all ethical vegetarians hypocrites, but that your observation is a valid reflection of reality.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Princess Artemis

[TheDarkCynder]

wELL TECHNICALLY, Humans are carnivores. People have meat cutting ang crunching teeth, but veggies and ruits can be eaten. Personally im an omnivore like everyone else.

Humans are omnivorous by nature. Our digestive systems cannot pull enough nutrients from meat alone.