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I don't mind veggitarians, their diet has no effect on me what-so-ever, so they can eat how they please. The one thing that confuses me a bit though, they say animals use to be living creatures, things that could breath and had life. But... veggies and fruit are living things too, sure they're considered plants, but plants are alive too. So isn't it the same thing really?

 

Personally, I love meat. I eat way more bacon and steak than I should though ^.^;;

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I am of the understanding that our ape ancestors, ate meat which in turn created bigger brained apes which would evolve over time.

There are a lot of other factors into why proportionally large brains developed. Eating meat by itself does not create bigger brains, it just enabled hominids to broaden their diet more successfully than pure herbivore behavior. It probably helped the development of higher social skills also, like those needed to hunt, coordination, etc.

 

lol I'm not even a vegetarian. There's just a lot of misconceptions about the theories behind human evolution; I can't help but try to clear some of the misinformation =S

 

And since our eyes are forward-facing, no human can survive and stay healthy without a decent portion of meat~

Awhuh? =P Binocular vision does not necessarily mean one has to eat meat. It's just a common adaption for carnivores, and given our rather unorthodox methods of getting food (ie. groceries), I don't think we use it to its full evolutionary advantage. Eating portions of meat does keep one healthy though, yeah. Not just because of our eye positioning.

 

Human cannibalism is the only source of some particularly nasty diseases.  In addition, human diseases pass to humans very easily, what with there being no species barrier, so why would it be evolutionarily advantageous to take that kind of risk, circumventing most barriers we have to others' illnesses?

Eh, most of the high risk diseases could be said as a result of eating brain/spinal column material or not properly preparing the meat. Not to mention a rather unnatural diet in comparison to... a wild boar? I bet that if the human meat were to be properly prepared, cooked, research on the medical history of the individual... it'd be safe to eat. Still a lot of effort to do, and I'm not sure it'd be worth it in the long run, either! (bar human meat being the only thing available)

 

It's hard to say the positives and negatives with certainty though, since most examples of regular human cannibalism have a lot of other factors to take into account. I don't think cannibalism is or will ever be thoroughly researched though, haha... it's definitely a tradition going extinct =o

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Eh, most of the high risk diseases could be said as a result of eating brain/spinal column material or not properly preparing the meat. Not to mention a rather unnatural diet in comparison to... a wild boar? I bet that if the human meat were to be properly prepared, cooked, research on the medical history of the individual... it'd be safe to eat. Still a lot of effort to do, and I'm not sure it'd be worth it in the long run, either! (bar human meat being the only thing available)

Having to properly cook it and having to research medical history in order for it to be anywhere approaching 'safe' kinda sorta negates it being evolutionarily advantageous over, say, eating a chicken instead, doesn't it?

 

For it to be an evolutionary advantage, it has to be something that can be done with enough benefit to outweigh the inherent risk. That's the question I was answering. I wasn't answering, "Can it be done safely?" but "Why aren't you (we/us), since meat eating is an evolutionary advantage?"

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Having to properly cook it and having to research medical history in order for it to be anywhere approaching 'safe' kinda sorta negates it being evolutionarily advantageous over, say, eating a chicken instead, doesn't it?

Depends on the chicken. While a medical history is obviously not possible, knowing where the chicken came from, how it died, w/e is just as important.

 

If human meat were prepared and shipped for availability in stores, it could have the same advantage as eating a chicken would. I was saying that because cannibalism is not something that can or will be thoroughly researched, the ability to discern whether or not it would be 'advantageous' or 'disadvantageous' can't be said with any certainty. Eating human meat could very well be more nutritious than chicken. Maybe not likely, but possible.

 

Edit: Maybe I shouldn't quote posts when I'm not responding to the exact topic that was being discussed.

Edited by Nine

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There are a lot of other factors into why proportionally large brains developed. Eating meat by itself does not create bigger brains, it just enabled hominids to broaden their diet more successfully than pure herbivore behavior. It probably helped the development of higher social skills also, like those needed to hunt, coordination, etc.

 

Yeah, if I remember correctly social carnivores tend to be more intelligent because of the need for coordination.

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Depends on the chicken. While a medical history is obviously not possible, knowing where the chicken came from, how it died, w/e is just as important.

 

If human meat were prepared and shipped for availability in stores, it could have the same advantage as eating a chicken would.

It's quite a lot easier to determine how a chicken died over the last n years than it is to determine what diseases a human has that could kill another human.

 

And that might indeed be true re: advantages in stores, but in all our history on Earth, we didn't always have stores, so if it was in any way evolutionarily advantageous to be cannibals, chances are we would be already much more often...and if it were to be in the future, well, it's really not looking like it will be any time soon.

 

I'm thinking for something to be advantageous enough to the species in order to consume itself, it's got to be something much better and much more basic than "if we're really careful, we can make it safe and it'll be next to the other foods that we don't have to be so careful with."

 

As for nutrition, *shrug*

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Here are my thoughts on eating meat. I love chickens. I breed the little cute Banty ones and raise them into beautiful adults. I pet them, pat them, cuddle them, and give them all names. Kazooie is my angel, and I will try to make sure that all her future offspring go to good homes.

 

Yet I also love to eat chicken. Frankly, it's my favorite meat besides steak. And bacon... Mmm, bacon. X3 I like my chicken fried, roasted, boiled, scalloped, etc. I'm particularly fond of fried livers(chicken ones). I also love eggs.

 

It amazes mom how I can go outside and pet Kazooie and then come in and eat a fried chicken breast.

 

Here's how I think of it. That chicken that I'm enjoying, doesn't have a face or name. It's an anonymous benefactor. I didn't know that chicken personally while it was alive, and didn't raise it from a tiny baby. So I don't feel guilty about it. I didn't have to look it in the eye after a long, loving childhood and then kill it.

 

That's why I have issues with raising something for meat. I can't do it, I guess I'm just too faint at heart, but it's impossible for me to raise anything and then watch it be sent off to slaughter. I was never in 4-H because of this.

 

Like calves. When you bottle feed a calf, it thinks you're it's mommy, and doesn't understand what it did wrong when you send it away. It doesn't know that later, it's going to be eaten by mommy and all her friends. That's why my family has never bought a few beef steers, cuz they can't handle it either.

 

As for hunting, I've never shot anything, but have conflicting opinions about it. I don't support killing for fun. I'm only okay with killing if you're going to eat a part of whatever it is. When you look up White Tailed Deer on Yahoo, you get a blood bath. I don't like that, but try to think that most of the hunts are for a good cause and will put food on the table. :3 I'll never go hunting though, even with that in mind.

 

Sorry about the border-line rant, but I had a huge burst of muse for the topic when I started writing. So basically, what I'm trying to say is:

 

I love anonymous meats, but can't handle the guilt of home raised or hunted meats. ^-^

Edited by DragonSprite

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That is exactly the reason why my mum can't eating any of our roosters. she just feels too..guilty, after watching them hatch, and grow up. Even when I'm doing all the gutting and skinning, she can barely stand to see the ready-to-eat carcasses!

In the end, thats just what she's like. Nothing wrong with it, and at the end of the day theres nothing wrong with you not being able to slaughter your own animals either! Especially if they're pet chickens- none of our hens are pets per say, but I certainly couldn't stand the idea of eating them!

They're much better layers anyway xd.png

 

I'd very much like to be on the whole self-sufficiency thing though. Killing our spare roosters was made a lot easier due to the fact that they were really aggressive, and by the fact that none of tehm were named so there was no attatchment. I didn't feel bad-they'd had a shot to live in the flock in peace and they blew it! Same with our two steers. We hand raised them, and then they turned on us later so we only felt relived when they went to market.

 

I just like eating something, and knowing exactly the life it's had-a good one, free ranging about and living exactly as it wants to, and if I can't get that (which is all the time, as we only really get spare roosters when we let the hens hatch some chicks, which is quite rare) then I just settle for getting free range.

 

As an aside, what bantam breed do you raise DragonSprite? I'd love to get some bantams, but they'd get bullied by the larger birds in our flock ):

Edited by Haloclimb

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I love all meat I guess, chicken especially.

 

I keep chicken, but I could never eat any of them. I just couldn't bare to rear them and see them a few hours after they hatch, and then kill them. I probably could never eat any of those breed ether (it would be a very expensive meal, but that's beside the point) because I would still feel guilty.

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The reason I can so easily eat animals that I have raised is simple. I know what they have eaten their whole lives. I know that there is nothing in or on then that can hurt me. Then I know for a fact that they had a decent life. They had comfortable barns or coops, room to run around outside, decent healthy food, clean fresh water and they were dispatched in a quick kind and efficient way. Chickens fall asleep when its dark, so putting a black sock over their head and holding them gently they fall asleep and quite literally never know what happened.

 

 

My family hunts, most people I know have hunted at some point. In the area I live currently hunting provides a good portion of a family's meat for the year. Where other wise they could not afford and would go without. Guns are passed down from parents to children and the children are taught at a very young age about gun safety and proper hunting. It is considered fairly abhorrent to hunt for sport and not food. If you are not planning on eating something then it darn well better be trying to kill you or your livestock.

 

 

 

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I have a cat who kills things like chipmunks and baby birds, and generally eats the things he kills. After seeing dead, half-eaten carcasses on almost a weekly basis, the thought that the meat I'm eating was once alive fails to move me. Not to be blunt; I love animals, but its lived its life and sad as it might be, it's dead. And me eating it isn't going to change that fact. I sorta think of it in the same way as DragonSprite: The meat was an anyomous benefactor. Now I won't eat chicken or any meat that wasn't free-range, because those farms are just awful and wrong, and I would probably never be able to raise chickens to eat or anything like that, as I cried when my fish died.

 

There's also the fact that there are many vital nutrients in meat that vegetarians lack, and soybeans aren't good for you. I however am not sure of the details on these facts, and only know them from my mom. Besides, tofu is nasty.

Edited by HawktalonOfRiverClan

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There's also the fact that there are many vital nutrients in meat that vegetarians lack, and soybeans aren't good for you. I however am not sure of the details on these facts, and only know them from my mom. Besides, tofu is nasty.

1. Sauce please. There's google. Google it.

 

2. Tofu's tasty as hell. Anyone who denies that tofu's tasty should come with me and we'll head on down to a chinese restaurant and have us some tofu. I'm actually a bit offended whenever people claim tofu tastes terrible when all people have tried are things like tofu burgers and more western tofu things- those are nasty.

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Yeah, tofu is delicious, when it's prepared right and served with things that compliment it.

 

...and this is coming from someone who thinks there is nothing in the world tastier than dead animals, so.

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1. Sauce please. There's google. Google it.

 

2. Tofu's tasty as hell. Anyone who denies that tofu's tasty should come with me and we'll head on down to a chinese restaurant and have us some tofu. I'm actually a bit offended whenever people claim tofu tastes terrible when all people have tried are things like tofu burgers and more western tofu things- those are nasty.

I have actually tried any number of ways to eat tofu (my SO is veggie) - I have cooked with it, and eaten it Japanese style, Chinese style, all sorts.

 

The ONLY sort I have ever managed to like was Cauldron Foods SMOKED tofu. Needless to say, as soon as I started to enjoy it I couldn't find it any more. Some people just do not like the taste of it, end of. Like some people don't like the taste of bacon (I don't understand that - but if you don't - you don't !)

 

Not that I mind - there are SO MANY wonderful veggie - and also vegan (daughter was for a while) dishes, I do actually eat that way most of the time - simply because I am FAR too lazy to cook two separate meals all the time.

 

Morally and environmentally I think we should all give up meat. Practically - I don't wanna and I'm not gonna. But it is PERFECTLY possible to get ALL the nutrients we need from a veggie diet and people who say it isn't possible are scaremongering. Vegans MAY need B12 supplements, but humans are FINE on vegetables - which include nuts and pulses and so on - alone - and as for lacto-ovo vegetarians - TOTALLY easy. Now anyone who tries to raise a veggie CAT will kill the poor thing. Dogs can do it; cats will die. So just - DON'T !

 

But meat is SHOCKINGLY wasteful on all counts. And I do think people need to REALISE what they are doing. When I was MUCH younger, and used to buy a side of beef for the freezer, I and a friend used to go down the farm, pick out a cow in the field and say we'll have that one, and then it would be led individually to be slaughtered. So a] I was aware of the fact that I was committing bovine murder - which I think people NEED to realise, and b] the cow was getting humanely killed at least - not in a ghastly factory abattoir.

 

Sigh - typefails; there will surely be more... sad.gif

Edited by fuzzbucket

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I am a carnivore by nature. I used to hate vegetables. I've grown to like them now, but I will always HAVE to have meat.

 

I like to think I eat a pretty balanced diet these days. Grains, dairy, vegetables, meat, etc. I can go without everything but meat for several days without ill effects, but if I go without meat for 3-4 days, I start feeling like a lethargic oaf.

 

I *try* very hard to eat meat that is free range or humanely raised, but sometimes it's just not feasible.

 

That said- if I were to ever win the lottery, I'd become completely self-sufficient. I'd buy a ton of land, farm it, raise my own meat and vegetables and give the meat industry the big finger.

 

And onto a branch of the big meat debate- the next Peta freak that shoves a picture of a dead cow in my face while I'm browsing the meat section at my local grocer is going to leave with two black eyes, and spitting out teeth. I LOVE animals, and actively volunteer and educate on their behalf...I do NOT love domestic terrorist hypocrite psychos who claim to be "for the ethical treatment" of animals, and then kill 98% of the ones they take in. So yeah, PETA can suck it.

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Hm, I'm not picky about the type or the brand, but I do pretty much only like tofu when it's cut into cubes and fried to the point that it's kind of crispy on the outside. It doesn't seem to be properly cooked in a lot of dishes, it ends up mashy and wet.

 

Meat as a staple for all first-world-nation humans all the time is a huge waste of resources--but it is delicious. I guess I've always thought that if you're personally willing to go out and hunt an animal, or raise an animal and slaughter it, and if you can do that responsibly (with a minimum of pollution, suffering, etc.) then you earn the privilege of a wasteful but delicious meal. It seems weird to me that most people just grow up eating animals all the time without really understanding what's happening to get that dead flesh onto their plates. (The 11-year-old vegetarian-convert is a trope for a reason.) If commercial meat processing were taken out of the equation now that few people are used to real violence anymore, if carnivorous humans had to deal with the blood and the mess personally, there might be a lot more vegetarians.

 

...or there might not be. Humans are nothing if they are not unpredictable.

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Hm, I'm not picky about the type or the brand, but I do pretty much only like tofu when it's cut into cubes and fried to the point that it's kind of crispy on the outside. It doesn't seem to be properly cooked in a lot of dishes, it ends up mashy and wet.

 

Meat as a staple for all first-world-nation humans all the time is a huge waste of resources--but it is delicious. I guess I've always thought that if you're personally willing to go out and hunt an animal, or raise an animal and slaughter it, and if you can do that responsibly (with a minimum of pollution, suffering, etc.) then you earn the privilege of a wasteful but delicious meal. It seems weird to me that most people just grow up eating animals all the time without really understanding what's happening to get that dead flesh onto their plates. (The 11-year-old vegetarian-convert is a trope for a reason.) If commercial meat processing were taken out of the equation now that few people are used to real violence anymore, if carnivorous humans had to deal with the blood and the mess personally, there might be a lot more vegetarians.

 

...or there might not be. Humans are nothing if they are not unpredictable.

Yeah - one of my two went veggie after visiting an abattoir.

 

And when I was a kid we killed our own chickens for lunch. I did one once; I wasn't keen, but thought it was fair enough that I should have to. I didn't do it again simply because my hands weren't quite strong enough to be humane sad.gif I do hate (oops !) people who say OF COURSE they eat meat but OF COURSE they don't want to see it killed. You get the pleasure, you should see what it costs.

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Meat is tasty, bro.

 

I used to feel occasional bouts of guilt about eating animals, but--after having to work with livestock I don't. Chickens are retarded. Beef cows are mean. Sheep are cowards. It's hard to get attached to animals that are really dumb/aggressive/afraid of you.

 

Animals that are nicer towards me, though, are of course ones I don't want to eat! The idea that there are people out there eating cats and dogs is awful, and goats are super-sweet so the eating of them makes me sad too.

 

However, even for animals that I don't mind eating, I of course would prefer to eat those that have lived a good life over those that have been factory raised. I'm not exactly bringing home my own groceries yet, but my dad does buy organic, grass-fed, etc when he can and that makes me happy.

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1. Sauce please. There's google. Google it.

Not sure about a 'sauce', but soybeans are an extremely good source of phytoestrogen, which...isn't necessarily something that men or women should have too much more of in their bodies than their bodies make. Some is good (it has health benefits), too much though? Maybe not so good.

 

The problem with soybeans isn't that soybeans have a metric bucketload of phytoestrogens in them (which can really screw with the systems of people who already have delicate endocrine balance), but that so many other things in the US are made with soy. The freakin' ink on newspapers is made with soy! So eating soybeans? Maybe not bad. Eating soybeans + anything else in the US because the US wouldn't know moderation if it hit us in the face = soy overload.

 

You know why there is an issue now with microwaving foods in certain kinds of plastic containers? Some plastics are made with a chemical that acts like an estrogen and it gets into food sometimes. Who knows if it's a serious issue, but it's something to be aware of when seeking to add more estrogens to a diet.

 

And that's one reason why soybeans are sometimes bad.

 

Yeah - one of my two went veggie after visiting an abattoir.

 

And when I was a kid we killed our own chickens for lunch. I did one once; I wasn't keen, but thought it was fair enough that I should have to. I didn't do it again simply because my hands weren't quite strong enough to be humane  sad.gif  I do hate (oops !) people who say OF COURSE they eat meat but OF COURSE they don't want to see it killed. You get the pleasure, you should see what it costs.

 

I feel somewhat the same way. I enjoy fishing and I love to eat trout. Salmon even more, though I've never caught my own. I think I could live on salmon, sometimes. But, ever since I was old enough, my dad told me, you want to eat them, you clean them. So I have. I don't have a problem with it at all. It's messy and frankly pretty smelly, but...it seems like such a necessary step in the process to me, so for some reason it's not really very gross getting fish blood and guts on my hands.

 

Somehow I feel that I'd be OK with it if I had to slaughter a cow myself, at least as far as the gross factor and the killing animals factor goes.

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I have shot and eaten deer myself, and would love to get a wild pig, if ever I could see one. Around here, killing pigs is actually helpful, considering that they are non-native, are devastating native wildlife as well as crop growing(have you ever seen where a pig has been rooting?) and livestock raising. So there are meats that you can have that aren't "wasteful" but are rather instead helpful. And pigs are such a pest, that people will pay you to take them out of their property, so a lease isn't always necessary(in such a case though you need to read up on local laws thoroughly).

Edited by Nectaris

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Meat is tasty, bro.

 

I used to feel occasional bouts of guilt about eating animals, but--after having to work with livestock I don't. Chickens are retarded. Beef cows are mean. Sheep are cowards. It's hard to get attached to animals that are really dumb/aggressive/afraid of you.

 

Animals that are nicer towards me, though, are of course ones I don't want to eat! The idea that there are people out there eating cats and dogs is awful, and goats are super-sweet so the eating of them makes me sad too.

 

However, even for animals that I don't mind eating, I of course would prefer to eat those that have lived a good life over those that have been factory raised. I'm not exactly bringing home my own groceries yet, but my dad does buy organic, grass-fed, etc when he can and that makes me happy.

I have had chickens as pets - stupid they aren't (and the use of the word retarded is rather offensive..)

 

I have personally known several charming cows and the sheep around here are very cheerful and friendly, and not cowards at all - they spend many happy hours working out new ways to get into our yard (and MAN are they ingenious... blink.gif ) and are not at all afraid of us when we have to chase them out again. They will face us down like you would not believe biggrin.gif

 

I suspect you may have met animals living in crap conditions - which is enough to make anyone mean and nasty.

 

I happen to loathe dogs - but I wouldn't be OK with eating them Not sure why, though...

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Cuz dogs are pets and we don't eat pets. I don't like dogs either.

 

I LOVE MEAT!!! Yes, I am a (carnivorous) dragon. Why do you ask?

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I have had chickens as pets - stupid they aren't

 

I've also home-raised free range chickens. They would squawk and run off whenever we came near them and only come back over for food, would happily tromp around on their buddy we found dead one morning, and would eat their own eggs if we weren't right on them.

 

They are stupid. <___>

 

Also the goats were raised in mirror conditions to the sheep and they were still playful and friendly. The kids would come over and chew on our shoes and stuff, haha. Cuties. <3

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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