Posted June 28, 2011 I understand why vegetarians are vegetarians, and I respect them for giving up meat. However, my beliefs on the subject are that everything consumes something else, and humans are omnivores. Meat is a vital part of our diet, and gives us the nutrients we need. Also, animals such as bears are omnivores, also. While they eat many leafy greens, they also eat meat. They need the meat to fuel their bodies, as we need meat to get proteins and other important things. I agree, it can be bad for you, but as long as you limit it in your diet, you should be alright. However, I'm not trying to convince the vegetarians out there to change their ways. I'm just justifying myself to those who are skeptical of my decisions. [/longpost] Share this post Link to post
Posted June 28, 2011 Fungi and carrion. Well, fungi are also "living", aren't they? They grow and reproduce just like any other plant does. And as far as carrion goes, since humans are not designed to be scavengers to my understanding, I'd think our bodies probably can't tolerate whatever germs etc. that might come from the carcass of an animal that died of sickness, for example, the way the systems of natural scavengers like vultures or jackals can. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) What's wrong with eggs? The thousands of battery-farmed hens that a forced to plop them out on a daily basis before being killed once they are past their prime. So by consuming eggs (or other dairy products) you are still directly supporting the death and poor treatment of animals. No, because children and vegetables and minerals are different than cats. It is not the same. I don't vaccinate my cats more than I have to. There's no need. They won't get a disease by roaming outside with me on the other end of a five foot leash. When your cat is not supervised and allowed to roam where ever they wish and do as they please, then dangers are introduced. I don't put sunblock on my sister when she's in the house, even though she goes outsides sometimes. I know anything can develop cancer. But as an owner, it is my responsibility to reduce the risk as much as possible while keeping my cat happy. And my cats are perfectly happy indoors- my kitten is scared to death of it, in fact. They are in that you are cotton-wooling them. Stopping a cat from going outdoors on it's own merely reduces the chance of infections, not eradicts it. You may be on the end of the leash but unless you are spraying everything within ten foot of your cat with antibacterial spray, it is still at risk of picking up diseases by being outside. So unless you can be certain that it is in an environ where it won't ever catch X disease it would still benefit from X vaccination. There is still danger from supervising your cat outside, and leashing it or not only increases or decreases the risk. It can still get into a fight if it's on a leash, it can still eat some road-kill or cut itself etc. It's just less likely to. But hey, clearly I know nothing of raising cats. Edited June 28, 2011 by Kestra15 Share this post Link to post
Posted June 28, 2011 Give up milk? I dunno that I could give up dairy products... cheese and the like. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 28, 2011 The thousands of battery-farmed hens that a forced to plop them out on a daily basis before being killed once they are past their prime. So by consuming eggs (or other dairy products) you are still directly supporting the death and poor treatment of animals. Depends on where you get them though. We get ours from a neighbor that raises chickens and we know she treats them well. The point is, is that not all egg consumption is supporting cruel treatment of animals, just like not all meat consumption supports factory farming. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) Depends on where you get them though. We get ours from a neighbor that raises chickens and we know she treats them well. The point is, is that not all egg consumption is supporting cruel treatment of animals, just like not all meat consumption supports factory farming. That is true, if you feel that it is a problem, there ARE options out there besides going without. A person could even go as far as raising their own, IF they were so inclined... you could be absolutely sure of the care and conditions of the animals then. Edited June 28, 2011 by LeopardDragon Share this post Link to post
Posted June 28, 2011 They are in that you are cotton-wooling them. Stopping a cat from going outdoors on it's own merely reduces the chance of infections, not eradicts it. You may be on the end of the leash but unless you are spraying everything within ten foot of your cat with antibacterial spray, it is still at risk of picking up diseases by being outside. So unless you can be certain that it is in an environ where it won't ever catch X disease it would still benefit from X vaccination. There is still danger from supervising your cat outside, and leashing it or not only increases or decreases the risk. It can still get into a fight if it's on a leash, it can still eat some road-kill or cut itself etc. It's just less likely to. But hey, clearly I know nothing of raising cats. I really don't have any idea what you mean by cotton-woolling. And having dogs that go in and out several times a day can introduce risks to my cats, such as fleas. But I take steps to prevent or lower that risk, the same like I do when I put her on a leash. I wouldn't put sunscreen on my body every time I stepped outside for a brief five minutes, even though there would still be a risk of me getting skin cancer or other sun-related diseases. It's unnecessary because the risk is so low that it's hardly worth taking into consideration. On the other hand, I wouldn't do anything to increase that risk, such as staying outside for hours on end in bright sunlight, just as I wouldn't give my cat a vaccine that would potentially do her more harm than it would good. No, my cat would not get into a fight while on her leash. There are no other cats or animals in the are I take her, and if there were, I would not let her get close to them if I did not know the animal. I would jeopardize my life first by placing myself between her and whatever it was that might threaten her. And there is no road kill where I'm at, nor would she ever have any access to it. I think it'd be pretty obvious to NOT let your cat, who is on a leash under my supervision, near a dead animal. And there's always the risk of a cat hurting herself. Obviously I wouldn't take her into an area where there were shards of glass lying about or metal objects. She'd be just as likely to cut herself on a rock as she would to cut herself on my little sister's plastic toys. I'm not saying that keeping her indoors is going to make all of the dangers disappear. It makes some of them go completely away, yes, but others just dramatically reduces the risk. An indoor cat is a safer cat, and that's that (given the owners of the cat care for it properly). Share this post Link to post
Posted June 28, 2011 I'm not saying that keeping her indoors is going to make all of the dangers disappear. It makes some of them go completely away, yes, but others just dramatically reduces the risk. An indoor cat is a safer cat, and that's that (given the owners of the cat care for it properly). Safer, perhaps, but not mentally healthier. Indoor cats are much, much more likely to have behavioural issues than outdoor cats are. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 28, 2011 Well, I think that depends on the cat. The kitten I have is absolutely terrified of the outdoors. The first cat I owned lived indoors, with an occasional trek through the backyard at my side, and she was the happiest cat you'd ever meet. My older cat right now is content to laze about inside and then go outside for some exploring on a leash. If they're happy the way they are, I see no point in introducing unnecessary risks. Of course, if a cat is not happy indoors, then there is a problem. In that case, I recommend farm areas, because a suburban or city environment is not the place for roaming felines. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 28, 2011 That's hardly the only reason to keep a cat indoors. House cats kill more variety of species than any other creature on Earth, and they've caused a good deal of species to go extinct. Keeping cats indoors prevents them from wiping out songbirds and frogs. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) That's hardly the only reason to keep a cat indoors. House cats kill more variety of species than any other creature on Earth, and they've caused a good deal of species to go extinct. Keeping cats indoors prevents them from wiping out songbirds and frogs. Total trash. Cats have been going outside in the UK for well over 1000 years and y'know what? We still have plenty of songbirds and amphibians here. Edited to add: On a small island I can agree that predatory wild cats may cause serious trouble. But certainly not on a continent the size of the US. Edited June 28, 2011 by TikindiDragon Share this post Link to post
Posted June 30, 2011 The thousands of battery-farmed hens that a forced to plop them out on a daily basis before being killed once they are past their prime. So by consuming eggs (or other dairy products) you are still directly supporting the death and poor treatment of animals. sometimes. I get my eggs free-range and organic from a local farm, I would have you know. Give up milk? I dunno that I could give up dairy products... cheese and the like. I decided to give up dairy almost two weeks ago. It's not as hard as you might think, depending on where you live and how old you are. The cheese is hard though, and the milk chocolate brands. So far I've not found any substitutes for them, but I've found I like the substitutes for milk and butter even better than the originals. It all depends on your own tastes, however, and I don't have very conventional taste-buds. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 30, 2011 I decided to give up dairy almost two weeks ago. It's not as hard as you might think, depending on where you live and how old you are. The cheese is hard though, and the milk chocolate brands. So far I've not found any substitutes for them, but I've found I like the substitutes for milk and butter even better than the originals. It all depends on your own tastes, however, and I don't have very conventional taste-buds. So you're still supporting the death and poor standards of living for dairy animals then? Share this post Link to post
Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) So you're still supporting the death and poor standards of living for dairy animals then? No, all I said was that I hadn't found a substitute for them, not that I was still eating them. Can I ask if you are vegan? (just curious) Edited July 1, 2011 by vegetariancannibal Share this post Link to post
Posted July 1, 2011 No, all I said was that I hadn't found a substitute for them, not that I was still eating them. Can I ask if you are vegan? (just curious) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12569011 They say it taste good. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 1, 2011 I don't live in London, and I've heard it's expensive. It makes me wonder though. If we stopped milking cows and instead milked humans, wouldn't it be a lot more nutritionally suitable? And it would be so much easier to find a wetnurse. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 1, 2011 I don't live in London, and I've heard it's expensive. It makes me wonder though. If we stopped milking cows and instead milked humans, wouldn't it be a lot more nutritionally suitable? And it would be so much easier to find a wetnurse. http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110627/us...eastmilk_arrest Saw this in the news the other day. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 1, 2011 No, all I said was that I hadn't found a substitute for them, not that I was still eating them. Can I ask if you are vegan? (just curious) No, I just know where my food comes from. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 1, 2011 Safer, perhaps, but not mentally healthier. Indoor cats are much, much more likely to have behavioural issues than outdoor cats are. All my cats have been indoors their whole lives and haven't developed any behavioral problems what-so-ever. So I don't know where you're getting your facts from :\ And while I like my meat, I'd go vegan if it wasn't so friggin' expensive. The places that actually sell vegan friendly foods are expensive and I'm not rich. I can't afford to go vegan :\ I've eaten a lot of different vegan foods with my buddy who's brother is vegan and there is A LOT of good stuff. Just costs an arm and a leg. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 1, 2011 Do you have milk or cheese or eggs? I wish this site would notify me when I am quoted. I do occasionally, but I'm not truly vegan because I do eat honey, use beeswax, wear wool, and still do eat dairy/eggs sometimes. I try to keep it low, and lately I have been taking vegan days (like yesterday, and I am hoping today will turn out vegan too). Share this post Link to post
Posted July 1, 2011 So you're still supporting the death and poor standards of living for dairy animals then? Wait... she said she gave up dairy. How is she supporting death and poor standards of living for dairy animals? O__o Share this post Link to post
Posted July 2, 2011 I wish this site would notify me when I am quoted. I do occasionally, but I'm not truly vegan because I do eat honey, use beeswax, wear wool, and still do eat dairy/eggs sometimes. I try to keep it low, and lately I have been taking vegan days (like yesterday, and I am hoping today will turn out vegan too). So you're not really that much of an animal lover. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 2, 2011 So you're not really that much of an animal lover. If I may add, parents can be an issue here as well. I'm the only vegetarian in a family willing to raise and kill their own livestock. They have trouble believing that a vegan lifestyle is possible, and with them buying their "normal" meats from the store, it creates the illusion that my vegetarian (vegan when possible) substitutes are expensive. I still have milk/eggs basically to shut them up and because I do need the nutrition that is "expensive" to get otherwise. (Like zapxxx, I tend to enjoy challenging myself to have vegan days) Share this post Link to post
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