Abortion

[Syaoransbear]

All right, that's interesting, didn't know about that, but That's not the US government, that's Mississippi.  It's also not looking like a ban on prescription birth control, which doesn't allow fertilization to take place in the first place.  (Unless they went and changed the way prescription birth controls functions on me...)

They are trying to get is passed in places like Mississippi so they can try for it in other places. Their goal is to have it spread, which is why I just said US government.

 

Most hormonal birth control methods have a backup in case their first function doesn't work. Their first function is to stop an egg from being fertilized in the first place, the backup is to make the lining of the uterus unfit for implantation.

[Princess Artemis]

They are trying to get is passed in places like Mississippi so they can try for it in other places. Their goal is to have it spread, which is why I just said US government.

 

Most hormonal birth control methods have a backup in case their first function doesn't work. Their first function is to stop an egg from being fertilized in the first place, the backup is to make the lining of the uterus unfit for implantation.

All right, that's still not really the US government...it's "they". It's not something some dingbat in the Fed is trying to pull.

 

That's how I thought they worked. Eggs what never make it out of the ovary are hardly going to fall afoul of a personhood law.

 

I do not understand why so many would have an issue of conscience with them though; if a fertilized egg doesn't implant, I'm not even sure that counts as any kind of abortion, natural or otherwise. People concerned about that should straight up stop having sex, because things like that happen all the time and if they have sex, chances are they have caused such a "silent abortion". Doctors, especially in gynecology, are the ones that would know that more than most...so, I am curious if the only way such doctors reproduce is expensive in vitro so as not to risk a "silent abortion"?

Edited May 7, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[KageSora]

I do not understand why so many would have an issue of conscience with them though; if a fertilized egg doesn't implant, I'm not even sure that counts as any kind of abortion, natural or otherwise. People concerned about that should straight up stop having sex, because things like that happen all the time and if they have sex, chances are they have caused such a "silent abortion". Doctors, especially in gynecology, are the ones that would know that more than most...so, I am curious if the only way such doctors reproduce is expensive in vitro so as not to risk a "silent abortion"?

I've always thought that they have an issue with it only when it's intentional--such as using birth control. If it happens naturally, there's not much you can do about it, really.

[Princess Artemis]

I've always thought that they have an issue with it only when it's intentional--such as using birth control.  If it happens naturally, there's not much you can do about it, really.

Except...it's not intentional with birth control either. Birth control (at least the kind I know about) stops eggs from ever getting out of the ovary. If one does, it's against intent and anything that happens after that is nature taking its course.

 

That's what barrier methods do as well. Intent is for the twain never to meet. If they do...well.

 

Birth control doesn't cause more of these "silent abortions" than straight up having sex does. They've know full well that the product of sex is babies and one thing that happens a whole lot more than babies is these "silent abortions". Much, much more often than if someone is using birth control simply because the egg ain't there most of the time in that case. If they were that concerned, they wouldn't have sex, they would do in vitro so they didn't leave the ground littered with the corpses of their "silently aborted" sons and daughters because they were trying to get pregnant >_O

 

ETA: Note I'm talking about doctors who have a conscientious issue with hormonal birth control that is not religious. Not talking about religious people (including religious doctors) who have different reasons to have issues with any kind of birth control.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[KageSora]

Except...it's not intentional with birth control either.  Birth control (at least the kind I know about) stops eggs from ever getting out of the ovary.  If one does, it's against intent and anything that happens after that is nature taking its course.

 

That's what barrier methods do as well.  Intent is for the twain never to meet.  If they do...well.

 

Birth control doesn't cause more of these "silent abortions" than straight up having sex does.  They've know full well that the product of sex is babies and one thing that happens a whole lot more than babies is these "silent abortions".  Much, much more often than if someone is using birth control simply because the egg ain't there most of the time in that case.  If they were that concerned, they wouldn't have sex, they would do in vitro so they didn't leave the ground littered with the corpses of their "silently aborted" sons and daughters because they were trying to get pregnant >_O

I've seen people say that, and they seem to believe it is intentional because you're taking birth control. But then, these are the people who believe nobody should be having sex ever unless they're trying to have a baby. Even if you're married, if you're not trying to have a kid don't do it. '

 

 

Or they argue that it IS intentional because you're on birth control, thus you're intending to stop the conception or implantation through artificial means. Whereas if it simply naturally doesn't implant that's just nature taking it's course.

 

 

Honestly, I've never understood that way of thinking myself. I just figure they're the crazies who don't make much sense, and try not to think about how the thought processes they must use work. (Or lack thereof, in some cases it seems like!)

 

 

ETA: They're also possibly the crazies who want miscarriages to be labeled as murders.

Edited May 7, 2012 by KageSora

[Vhale]

The thing I don't get about the Sandra Fluke ruckus, is one of the reasons she was arguing for birth control coverage (something that was already done in 28 states) was that a friend had lost her ovaries because her provider would not prescribe it for her. Even though she needed it for a medical condition.

Given that so many of these bills center around saving eggs, why is the fact that a woman had to get all her eggs removed utterly ignored? I mean seriously, a woman was villified and called a for 3 days running because of that?

[Terahlyanwe]

Tennessee is trying to pass a stupid law right now that says that parents can sue teachers for letting kids hug in classrooms.

Oh yeah, and tacked onto the end of that bill is a little bit that would also make it illegal to teach any sex ed besides total abstinence.

 

Oh the crazies abound...

[Princess Artemis]

The thing I don't get about the Sandra Fluke ruckus, is one of the reasons she was arguing for birth control coverage (something that was already done in 28 states) was that a friend had lost her ovaries because her provider would not prescribe it for her. Even though she needed it for a medical condition.

Given that so many of these bills center around saving eggs, why is the fact that a woman had to get all her eggs removed utterly ignored? I mean seriously, a woman was villified and called a for 3 days running because of that?

I imagine it was something other than that that she pricked someone's ire. Y'know, just being female probably, given long other women in politics get called that and worse. I could show you pictures of people wearing their "Sarah Palin is a c-word" shirts, and she wasn't all about getting the government to make employers pay for birth control. So I am certain that is not why Sandra Fluke was enduring what she did either.

 

A provider that denies coverage for birth control for a medical necessity has some 'splaining to do. Medicare will cover that usage and any other insurance ought to as well.

 

The bills aren't about saving eggs though. Where does it say anything about saving eggs? They are about protecting what they believe to be humans. They do not believe eggs are humans, they believe the union of an egg and a sperm are humans. Very much like how most people don't think of pollen as an oak but they do recognize that an acorn is an oak. I've not known many people to argue that an acorn is not an oak just because it might die before it sprouts. I also have not known many people to argue that all the acorns of endangered oaks are protected and I should be sued or imprisoned by some eco-department because I don't let the squirrels plant them in my yard.

 

KageSora and Terahlyanwe, given that ideological differences and opinions are not a sign of mental illness, mind toning down the "crazies" talk?

[KageSora]

KageSora and Terahlyanwe, given that ideological differences and opinions are not a sign of mental illness, mind toning down the "crazies" talk?

Crazy doesn't always mean to do with a mental illness. Yes, it can, but it has other uses.

 

cra·zy   [krey-zee] Show IPA adjective, cra·zi·er, cra·zi·est, noun, plural cra·zies.

adjective

1.mentally deranged; demented; insane.

2.senseless; impractical; totally unsound: a crazy scheme.

3.Informal . intensely enthusiastic; passionately excited: crazy about baseball.

4.Informal . very enamored or infatuated (usually followed by about ): He was crazy about her.

5.Informal . intensely anxious or eager; impatient: I'm crazy to try those new skis.

 

I was using "crazies" more in the sense of definitions 2 and 3--I find them to be rather senseless and impractical in their beliefs, as well as disturbingly "intensely enthusiastic" about said beliefs.

 

 

Note, I don't find all those who believe differently from me to be "crazy". Just the people who are being utterly ridiculous and make most other people stare at their jaw-dropping idiocy. Such as those who think "You had a miscarriage? YOU BELONG IN PRISON FOR LIFE, MURDERER!" They scare me, and seem pretty damn crazy to me.

[Princess Artemis]

Given that I'm not really in the mood to go round with the Ableism and You speech yet again here, just take it as read that you're being offensive, KageSora, and if you want to know why, you can do some googling on the subject.

[Kestra15]

Tennessee is trying to pass a stupid law right now that says that parents can sue teachers for letting kids hug in classrooms.

Oh yeah, and tacked onto the end of that bill is a little bit that would also make it illegal to teach any sex ed besides total abstinence.

 

Oh the crazies abound...

Hence being glad to give up teaching.

[philpot123]

Tennessee is trying to pass a stupid law right now that says that parents can sue teachers for letting kids hug in classrooms.

Oh yeah, and tacked onto the end of that bill is a little bit that would also make it illegal to teach any sex ed besides total abstinence.

 

Oh the crazies abound...

I am a firm believer that abstinence only sex-ed is the most useless and harmful idea ever, because it's an attempt to push a morally based idea without the aid of moral absolutes, and on people who don't even AGREE with it. The idea that abstinence is a preferable form of birth control is absolutely ridiculous, given that other methods are almost as good, and well, sex is fun. you're never going to get teenagers to believe that it's the best way to go unless they already have a genuine moral conviction that premarital sex is wrong. Give it up already, just teach reality and let the kids decide for themselves, you're doing more harm than good.

[Vhale]

It doesn't follow to me that a group of people that are so caught up in the sanctity of embryos and pregnancies would casually dismiss something that causes a women to be unable to get pregnant. Ever. No eggs, no pregnancy. It just makes no sense to me. Granted, that may be a me thing, but that's how I feel.

[Brite]

It doesn't follow to me that a group of people that are so caught up in the sanctity of embryos and pregnancies would casually dismiss something that causes a women to be unable to get pregnant. Ever. No eggs, no pregnancy. It just makes no sense to me. Granted, that may be a me thing, but that's how I feel.

It's not just eggs. People are crazy about what they believe sperm to be.

 

*Checks a few pages back* Apparently they're tiny babies killed if a man where to ever *irresponsibly* ejaculate. *sarcasm*

 

Then why is the government trying to strip parental rights and have control over the children? Why do we have welfare programs?

 

Being alive isn't enough. As Shiny said a long time back, since she's a social worker and has plenty of experience with this, they don't give a damn about the child once it's born. It can starve in the system with depression for all they care. Hense forth, starts at conception, ends at birth.

Edited May 8, 2012 by GhostChilli

[elderberrysyrup]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/07/ka...-in-the-nation/

 

People wonder why I am a shut in. I wonder why people think the world's an open place for females with things like this going around.

 

Republicans are poised to make the 69 page bill the most restrictive anti-abortion law in the nation. Among the provisions include:

 

• A sales tax on all abortions. Even rape victims would have to pay the tax, which could be as high as 6.3%. Despite their objections to millionaires paying more taxes, Republicans feel it’s okay to tax women for making a personal decision about their own bodies. This makes abortion more expensive.

 

 

• A personhood measure that would define life as beginning at conception, which would almost certainly make abortion equivalent to murder and outlaw all abortion in the state of Kansas. Many forms of contraception could also be banned.

 

• A measure that significantly limits abortions in the third trimester.

 

• A provision that bans women from claiming abortion insurance coverage and services on their taxes.

 

• Doctors are hereby ordered to tell women that abortion causes breast cancer, which is a damned lie.

 

• Doctors are also shielded from lawsuits if they withhold critical health information from pregnant women that could cause them to decide to have an abortion. In other words, they don’t have to tell women about the health of the fetus they carry and don’t have to tell women about any problems with the pregnancy.

[xhunter]

Who is proposing to ban birth control? I know the US government is stupid, but not that stupid...

 

ETA: Yeah, probably are misunderstanding, but understandably; Miyasha dropped the end of the quote so it looks like it's saying something different than it is. It's a quote about how the government is less than forthcoming to pay for women's sex lives and the children that result but will pay for men's sex lives.

you kidding that's not the stupidest law i ever heard of them wanting to pass a law that would make bulling legal

 

"Michigan Senate Republicans have passed a bullying bill — not an anti-bullying bill — that actually gives license to bully. In an Orwellian twist, the bill, which passed 26-11, with zero Democratic votes, allows kids to be bullied by anyone: teachers, fellow students, school employees, volunteers and parents, if they can provide a so-called religious or moral reason for their actions, giving the phrase, “the devil made me do it” sufficient validity."

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/michi...011/11/03/29580

 

it basically means that if you do or believe in something that the bible does not agree with and someone decide to bully you about it they get a free pass.

 

some people, mostly a good portion of republicans, could care less about the people. they want to ban abortion so that the kids end up in the system and they want to ban gay adoption a solution to help clean up their mess they caused. every law i see proposed by them makes me wonder if there is any intelligence in them at all. as i stated before at lest Obama seems to give a about the people and their needs. i have not seen one republican law that did not oppose gay rights, womens rights, abortion rights, adoption rights, ect. they seem determined to not get elected, its horrifying that anyone would support those laws i can only figure that non of the laws affect them personally.

[7Deadly$ins]

It's not just eggs. People are crazy about what they believe sperm to be.

 

*Checks a few pages back* Apparently they're tiny babies killed if a man where to ever *irresponsibly* ejaculate. *sarcasm*

 

 

 

Being alive isn't enough. As Shiny said a long time back, since she's a social worker and has plenty of experience with this, they don't give a damn about the child once it's born. It can starve in the system with depression for all they care. Hense forth, starts at conception, ends at birth.

re: tiny babies -- are you sure you weren't reading someone's satirical post? I seem to remember one a bit back.

[Brite]

re: tiny babies -- are you sure you weren't reading someone's satirical post? I seem to remember one a bit back.

I was reffering to that

[diannethegeek]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/07/ka...-in-the-nation/

 

People wonder why I am a shut in. I wonder why people think the world's an open place for females with things like this going around.

 

and last week Kansas' senate passed a bill allowing health care providers to refuse to perform abortions or steralizations or dispense drugs that would induce one (like Plan and allowing them to refuse to refer patients to another doctor who would.

 

http://www.kake.com/news/headlines/Kansas_...ck.html?ref=365

 

We only have one abortion clinic left in the state and they're really gunning for it this year.

 

But we do still have people like Dr. Mila Means here and that gives me hope: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/05/na...ortion-20120305

[Slaskia]

and last week Kansas' senate passed a bill allowing health care providers to refuse to perform abortions or steralizations or dispense drugs that would induce one (like Plan and allowing them to refuse to refer patients to another doctor who would.

What the....

 

Sterilizations too!? It's hard enough for a woman to get voluntarilly sterilized as is!

[Bardess]

Paying taxes is an infringement of the personal rights. Making access to arms more difficult is an infringement of the personal rights. Getting social aid is an infringement of the personal right.

 

Not being able to marry the person you love, not being able to plan your family and not being able to decide what to do with your own body, on the other hand, is NOT.

 

 

 

 

America, I will never understand you.

[St. Jimmy]

http://www.kake.com/news/headlines/Kansas_...ck.html?ref=365

I need to stop reading the comments on these things.

 

"I say if the woman cant handle the life she has made we should take hers and let the child survive."

 

(After someone commented that women would go back to back alley abortions) "Go ahead! I dont care for the well being of these mothers!"

 

"Some day all of you that think it is ok to murder innocent children will answer for it."

 

Sure sounds pro-life to me. [/sarcasm]

[loudwhitenoise]

comic: An exaggerated portrayal of Santorum/his opinions on birth control.

... Why do I feel compelled to share this sort of stuff? I don't have anything new to say *wanders off muttering*

 

Ed: Some sort of made up slippery slope arguement? idk im just linking it.

Edited May 13, 2012 by loudwhitenoise

[xhunter]

comic: An exaggerated portrayal of Santorum/his opinions on birth control.

... Why do I feel compelled to share this sort of stuff? I don't have anything new to say *wanders off muttering*

 

Ed: Some sort of made up slippery slope arguement? idk im just linking it.

now those are crazy but true. Santorum gives me a head ach. i swear if his stupidity becomes pres. i will kill myself or move to another country if i can, or figure out how to remove my womb myself. he cares for no one outside of his culture. if a woman values her health then she will not vote for Santorum.

[7Deadly$ins]

There isn't much of a chance for Santorum to become president any more.