Abortion

[TheDarkCynder]

American Airlines turned down the woman because of the cursing, not because of the political standpoint.

 

From American Airlines' website:

...clothing with holes or ragged edges, clothing with offensive terminology, ...

[Rosedamai]

American Airlines turned down the woman because of the cursing, not because of the political standpoint.

 

From American Airlines' website:

I dunno, I've seen people with worse things written on not get any sort of warning *shrug* but then again, yes it could be because of the word, I guess.

[St. Jimmy]

That last paragraph made me facepalm so hard. Restricting abortion isn't going to make women chose life. If they need an abortion, they're going to get one, safe or not.

[philpot123]

I was in Denver a couple weeks ago, and my hotel was right in front of a Planned Parenthood clinic. There was a "pro-life" protest going on outside at the time when we passed by. As someone who is passionately pro-life, the demonstration disgusted me. It saddens me that people feel the need to stoop as low as they did to convey their beliefs. Spearing doll heads on sticks? Hanging baby dolls from American flags? Carrying around bloody axes? Really? What exactly are you trying to accomplish here?

[NobleOwl]

I was in Denver a couple weeks ago, and my hotel was right in front of a Planned Parenthood clinic. There was a "pro-life" protest going on outside at the time when we passed by. As someone who is passionately pro-life, the demonstration disgusted me. It saddens me that people feel the need to stoop as low as they did to convey their beliefs. Spearing doll heads on sticks? Hanging baby dolls from American flags? Carrying around bloody axes? Really? What exactly are you trying to accomplish here?

Fear and intimidation. If I can find it, I actually have a pamphlet from a pro-life group that marks out ten strategies for pushing people away from clinics. I'll copy it in so you can see what their exact aims are, at least here.

 

Which is not to say I don't understand where they're coming from. When I was more immature in my faith, I was pro-life, until I actually studied scripture. They honestly feel that they are seeing genocide, and will do anything to stop it. I get that, I felt similarly at one point -- until I realized, as a Jew, I was in the wrong and that I couldn't call something G-d does not consider murder, murder.

 

So I have some sympathy for them, as hard as it is sometimes.

[Brite]

If you want to get technical, the government here doesn't actually care about the unborn child(as if I already didn't know that), they put on acts in politics to get votes so they can raise prices on birth control and abortions and banned Plannedparenthood(because they give out free bc) so they can get money.

 

Bottom line, it's not about saving lives, it's about getting as much money as they can. Smh...

[philpot123]

Fear and intimidation. If I can find it, I actually have a pamphlet from a pro-life group that marks out ten strategies for pushing people away from clinics. I'll copy it in so you can see what their exact aims are, at least here.

 

Which is not to say I don't understand where they're coming from. When I was more immature in my faith, I was pro-life, until I actually studied scripture. They honestly feel that they are seeing genocide, and will do anything to stop it. I get that, I felt similarly at one point -- until I realized, as a Jew, I was in the wrong and that I couldn't call something G-d does not consider murder, murder.

 

So I have some sympathy for them, as hard as it is sometimes.

I have complete sympathy for their convictions, but not for their actions in accordance with those convictions

[Aurora_Fox]

Personally I am for abortion. Some people are just not fit to be parents, or they wouldn't be able to raise a child in a good home. I think it should be the choice of the mother whether she keeps the child or not. No one else should decide for them. There are other personal, tragic events that could happen, resulting in a child, which some would not want to keep. In some situations I think that abortion is alright and should be legal.

[Brite]

In some situations I think that abortion is alright and should be legal.

Some? What are the reasons why you think it shouldn't be? I'm asking because you said in some situations it should be legal.

[7Deadly$ins]

Suppose a women is walking down the street late at night. A man assaults her and later she gets pregnant as a result. Now, did the women really have a choice as to whether or not she wanted the child? No.

 

Now, suppose this same women is poor, lives in a small apartment, and barely makes enough to keep herself alive. How would she care for the child?

 

Also, Let's take another hypothetical lady. Say she was married and got pregnant, yet she wasn't strong or healthy enough to go into labor with the child. What happens if she dies while giving birth? It's not her fault, or the child's; it's whoever made it impossible for her to get an abortion's fault.

 

 

...And these are some of the reason's I'm for abortion. I don't believe that women should just get abortions if they are healthy, strong, mutually sound, and etc. etc., but I do believe that abortion should be available to all people.

GhostChili asked which situations Aurora thought it should NOT be legal, not justifications for abortion. Most of us are pro-choice here.

[LascielsShadow]

...Darn it, misinterpreted the question. *facepalm*

 

Nice to know that mostly everyone here is Pro-choice. Almost all of the people I talk to in RL say the are against abortion. 

 

I do believe that it shouldn't be used as a form of birth control, if you get what I'm saying. Like if a women does have the financial support, the health, a husband, etc etc., then she shouldn't get an abortion. But that's still her choice.

Abortion is, by definition, a form of birth control. It controls if birth happens. </pedant>

(I know what you meant: you think women shouldn't use abortion in place of other forms of birth control, yes?)

 

I'm severely squicked by the idea that a woman might somehow be obligated/"should" continue a pregnancy simply because she is in some optimum situation for doing so. If she doesn't want to be pregnant/a mother, she doesn't want to, whatever her situation. Marital status/financial situation/health/etc. aren't the only factors to be considered; whether a woman wants to be a parent is paramount. I'm glad you realise that it's her choice in the end, but the thought rubs me the wrong way.

Edited June 28, 2012 by LascielsShadow

[Ashes The Second]

I am pretty much pro-choice, but would never want a child. There are some things I can't understand, and simply never will. i.e, the 'protect the child at all cost' stance the mother makes once her child is born. I simply don't understand that, and probably never will, seeing as I can't stand children under the age of five. I'm, not bashing anyone who is a mother/is lucky enough for that role, I just don't... get it. It's not an instinct I can use in everyday life. That would be cool, though, a huge need to protect whatever there was to protect. And I think kids are adorable around a certain age, but I'm glad I'm not their mom.

[NobleOwl]

Here's the pro-life training pamphlet I mentioned, copied word for word.

 

1. Do not be afraid of the law. You have God on your side

2. Do not be afraid to scream at someone -- in the seconds that they recoil they may reconsider their decision to murder an innocent life.

3. Shock them. Make it impossible for them to get to the clinic without going past you -- if revulsion turns one woman away, you've saved a baby.

4. Target teenagers and underage mothers. Question if their parents know what their doing.

5. Try and keep pictures of fetuses in their eyeline -- make them see what they are destroying.

6. Shame them. They would not be here if they weren't ashamed of their actions. Take advantage of this, especially if you note out-of-state plates. They had to go far away for a reason.

7. Target minorities with talk of God -- they are more likely to be religious. Target middle-class women with the reality of being a murderer. They are more likely to respond emotionally to that.

8. The power of intimidation cannot be overestimated. You are those babies last chance for life.

9. If someone seems emotional, be kind. If someone seems resolute, scare them.

10. Arrive early and attempt to block clinic workers or change their minds. If they don't work, they can't kill.

 

AND ABOVE ALL ELSE, PRAY. GOD ABOVE SEES ALL. GOD CAN CHANGE A PERSON'S HEART.

 

For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.

(Psalm 139:13)

 

(And as an aside because of the devout Jew in me, I REALLY REALLY want to - the o in G-d, but I wanted to present it exactly as it reads on the card.)

 

[kittygrl]

Im extremely pro-choice i firmly believe in a something my mom says all the time

 

"If you won't trust a woman with a decision, dont trust her with a kid."

 

I believe we should all have a choice, and i hate it when the children in my class preach pro-life and nearly bully kids that don't follow... I believe everyone should have a choice and be comfortable with whatever decision they make. The world would much more peaceful if everyone had a choice in what to do. ^-^ so all in all i think im Pro-Peace.

 

and personally i take the pro-life pamphlet thing you posted kind of offensive.. but thats ok. as long as your happy, even tohugh i dont approve of anyone making anyone else unhappy

Edited June 28, 2012 by kittygrl

[7Deadly$ins]

Im extremely pro-choice i firmly believe in a something my mom says all the time

 

"If you won't trust a woman with a decision, dont trust her with a kid."

 

I believe we should all have a choice, and i hate it when the children in my class preach pro-life and nearly bully kids that don't follow... I believe everyone should have a choice and be comfortable with whatever decision they make. The world would much more peaceful if everyone had a choice in what to do. ^-^ so all in all i think im Pro-Peace.

 

and personally i take the pro-life pamphlet thing you posted kind of offensive.. but thats ok. as long as your happy, even tohugh i dont approve of anyone making anyone else unhappy

Noble is pro-choice.

[LascielsShadow]

and personally i take the pro-life pamphlet thing you posted kind of offensive.. but thats ok. as long as your happy, even tohugh i dont approve of anyone making anyone else unhappy

Uh, Noble posted that so that we can see the kinds of things the anti-choice crowd are disseminating amongst themselves and the tactics they're using.

 

I can't say I'm surprised at any of it. Half of those make very little sense, honestly. Especially number six: of course they had to go out of state for a reason. That reason would be that extreme religious zealots are making it harder for them to access abortion services in their home states or/and making them think that they're doing something that they need be ashamed of.

[kittygrl]

well im sorry, i thought it seemed more of how it was posted she was posting that there as her opinion.

[NobleOwl]

well im sorry, i thought it seemed more of how it was posted she was posting that there as her opinion.

Haha, no, I volunteer at a clinic as an other options counselor, to give information on adoption and help for people unsure of the decision, but I am pro-choice. Phil asked earlier in the thread what a pro-life group was trying to accomplish with violent imagery and I said I'd dig up the pamphlet I got from one of the picketers who changed her mind so he could see what they were trying to do. It's on the last page I believe.

[philpot123]

I get what they're trying to do, but I question how effective it is. And honestly, if these people truly believe, based on their faith, that abortion is morally wrong, the should be seeking to change people's hearts about it, not frighten them into not going into the clinic. How many of the girls they scare off will just come back when they aren't there? Go to a different one? Find a more unsafe way of doing it? Again, this is coming from someone who is very VERY pro-life. I find it hard to sympathize with their actions even based on what they're hoping to accomplish.

 

 

 

 

Kitty, I think it's safe to say that almost every single longstanding member on this forum is pro-choice, with the exception of myself and maybe some others that aren't vocal about their opinions. So don't worry, you're in the majority

[Brite]

I have found out slight good news. A friend of mine was able to get her tubes tied without being a mom herself and without having to be over 35. I was going to try and get this done in a few years. Bad side, with new people being elected, this opportunity may be slammed shut in my face when I'm able to have this done...

 

 

Do not be afraid to scream at someone

 

Lol wow. I do believe you're not even suppose to do that in the bible. I've read several biblical stories where the main character didn't fight back like that no matter how much they wanted to.

 

Hypocrites at their best

[TikindiDragon]

I get what they're trying to do, but I question how effective it is. And honestly, if these people truly believe, based on their faith, that abortion is morally wrong, the should be seeking to change people's hearts about it, not frighten them into not going into the clinic. How many of the girls they scare off will just come back when they aren't there? Go to a different one? Find a more unsafe way of doing it? Again, this is coming from someone who is very VERY pro-life. I find it hard to sympathize with their actions even based on what they're hoping to accomplish.

It's certainly not behaving in a Christ-like manner, is it? Being someone with a deep faith myself I find it hard to understand how they could even consider the actions they're taking.

[Princess Artemis]

That's a pretty heinous pamphlet. It does not strike me as acting nor thinking in a loving Christian manner at all (and please do not use that descriptor as an excuse to bust out the hatred for Christianity, please). I do have sympathy for their conviction, but no respect at all for their methods.

 

Thanks for posting that Noble.

[LaurlieIshida]

All I know is that I could never do it. I can understand why SOME women would but other than that...

[prairiecrow]

All I know is that I could never do it. I can understand why SOME women would but other than that...

"SOME women" being... who, exactly?

[kiffren]

All I know is that I could never do it. I can understand why SOME women would but other than that...

Why couldn't you ever do it? Moral beliefs or what?

 

Also, what prairiecrow asked.