Abortion

[Terahlyanwe]

I strongly agree that sex ed shouldn't be something one can opt out of in school, and it should be taught younger, although still age appropriate.

My mom never taught me a thing about my body, it's like she just expected me to magically know all the information. The only reason I knew what menstruating was, is because I overheard my older sister talking about it with someone once when I was about ten.

Two years after I'd gotten my period, and I repeat TWO YEARS after I'd been having it every month my mom asked me offhandedly "You know how to use pads, right?"

 

And since I was homeschooled, I had no other sex ed. I found out about 'coitus' from a Focus on the Family book called Preparing for Adolescence in which the entire idea behind the book was 'sex is bad, don't have it, don't do it, don't touch yourself EVER because that will make sex when you're married be bad.'

 

Yep, better sex ed is needed in America.

[Kelkelen]

the funny part is that i knew my mom and granny were talking about how, i think my granny's kidneys were messing up, was peeing nothing but blood up. ok after a week or so absorbing what was happening to my granny i was thinking it fatal and i had just started my first period. i was wiping and seen the red clots after i peed and remember shouting to my mother that i thought my kidneys were not working like granny's and it took me a wile to calm down enough to be told what it was.

 

i think that sex-ed classes 'need' to cover more than don't have sex as most of the ones that i had when i was still in school, a year or two ago, had. they mainly taught over and over male and female growing pains, periods, and birth. what i wish they would have taught was abortion, adoption, problems common with preg., who much it takes to keep a child healthy money wise, what babies actually are like and how easy they can get sick and die if your not careful. my class many was about if you get preg. 9 month later, no mention of health problems or anything preg. can have, you get a happy bouncing baby. once you get that bouncing baby you have to feed it, give it milk, and play with it and then it grows up within 20 years. BAMB your done, you now have a perfectly healthy teen child or adult child without harming your future.

First -- oh NO, poor you! That must have been (temporarily) so scary! (Yet again, I'm willing all my thanks towards that "growing up female" talk at the local hospital!)

 

Second -- So, you didn't have a home ec/family and consumer sciences/whatever it's called now course that covered raising children in more detail? That's a shame. We definitely had to think about things like trying to plan a week's worth of meals for a family with three children on a given budget (only ONE student was able to do it successfully -- we all had a rude awakening). I actually can't remember if our sex ed classes mentioned abortion; I knew a lot about it at that age, but I'm not sure if I picked it up from school or church or parents or some combination of the three. Has anyone on here had a sex ed class where abortion was explained? (Types, degrees of safety, possible complications, cost, where to go?)

 

My Home Ec class never did flour-babies or egg-babies because our teacher thought they weren't responsibility-teaching enough. A year or two later, she finally got the school to buy her a set of educational baby dolls -- the kind the cry at random intervals for random lengths of time, and the "parent" has to wear a bracelet with the key on it and hold the key into the doll until the crying stops. I don't think they were permitted any "babysitters," either. I just remember that my little sister told me that by the second or third night, she was crying from all the interrupted sleep.

[Infinis]

I'll start off with saying I'm pro-choice. If I were to get pregnant at any time and that time was one that I knew could not afford to care for a child in, I would abort it. I would also abort if that child were to have any severe defects - I know it sounds cruel but I personally don't think I have the mindset to deal with or care for a disabled child (and if the defect would severely limit the quality of said future child's life were it to be carried to term, I also feel it would be kinder to abort). I applaud those who can and do deal with and care for disabled children, though.

 

Abortion should always be an option for parents for whatever reason, ESPECIALLY medical reasons. I don't understand the people who want to outlaw it even if the mother's life, the fetus' life, or even both lives are in danger. (On that note, I do not support late term abortions for anything but medical necessity.) And something else I don't understand about people who feel that way...why are they willing to let the mother die for a fetus that may or not be viable at the time in question? o.O It makes more sense to keep the mother alive, because, you know, she kinda carries the fetus and KEEPS it alive.... The lack of logic could hurt Spock. <.<

 

Regarding sex ed - I had a sex ed class in high school like 90% of American schoolchildren and it sucked like 90% of sex ed classes do.

 

Essentially, all the class was was about abstinence and STDs and stuff. My mom had me pulled out of the class halfway through and do something separate - I think she felt that that kind of thing was better taught at home, but honestly most of what I know about sex (the actual act) is from innuendo, the internet, books, and bits and pieces of romance novels. |D I learned STDs on my own (because medicine is my area of interest and diseases are cool) from individual research.

Although when I started getting my period and stuff my mom got me some tampons and told me how to use them. So. Not all bad, at least.

 

Oh, and my sex ed class taught nothing about birth control/condoms. I didn't really understand the pill or anything until I asked my mom about it. It's so important to know about it, too...birth control has uses beyond preventing pregnancy too. And teenagers especially need to be taught that if they have sex and the girl gets pregnant that there are options aside from adoption if she doesn't want the baby or can't take care of it.

 

I agree that sex ed should be taught. It is SO IMPORTANT that people, especially teenagers, get to know their own bodies and what works for them and all that. There shouldn't be such a focus on abstinence and honestly I've never understood why sex ed classes continue to teach abstinence and SEX IS BAD AND IF YOU GET IT WELL THEN YOU GET AIDS AND DIE because it never works! Well, never is probably an exaggeration but anyway. I'm not saying we should teach people to have sex but they're going to learn somewhere and if they don't learn it from a reputable adult, they're likely to learn it offhand from friends or the internet.

 

My Home Ec class never did flour-babies or egg-babies because our teacher thought they weren't responsibility-teaching enough. A year or two later, she finally got the school to buy her a set of educational baby dolls -- the kind the cry at random intervals for random lengths of time, and the "parent" has to wear a bracelet with the key on it and hold the key into the doll until the crying stops. I don't think they were permitted any "babysitters," either. I just remember that my little sister told me that by the second or third night, she was crying from all the interrupted sleep.

 

We had them @ my old high school, but they stopped doing them there and they don't even have them here. I remember that the ones at my old school had keys, but you weren't allowed to use them. They had bottles/diapers/etc. that had some kind of electronic device in them that would shut off the crying if that's what the problem was. They also had damage reporting. If someone dropped one, it'd show up as a "bruise" in the system when the teacher connected it to the computer. I can't tell you how many girls were so frustrated with these things. It was a lesson well learned for them, though. They never had children when they were still in school.

 

:I I wish my high school had had these. Maybe it's just me because I tend to think about my future a lot, but it was always kind of upsetting to see these teenagers at my high school - some of them freshmen and not even 14/15 years - pregnant. How many were accidents or failed BC/condom or how many were wanted, I don't know. But I really think high school is too early to be getting pregnant, especially freshmen. >< And considering all the huge changes the human body has to go through to accommodate and carry a child and support it and feed it and keep it alive and all the complications that could occur.... <<

 

Which brings to another thing. It always seems in media like nothing bad happens to mothers or pregnant women and they're all perfect and dandy. I hate this mindset, because it's permeated sex ed - in the time I spent in sex ed class, there was really no mention even of pregnancy or the complications it could cause or anything. If sex ed is going to be taught properly this has to be included, because pregnancy can be very dangerous to some women (see: eclampsia and Rhesus disease). Pregnancy isn't all bad but it is important to know that things can go wrong. <<

 

/end long post

[Princess Artemis]

We had them @ my old high school, but they stopped doing them there and they don't even have them here. I remember that the ones at my old school had keys, but you weren't allowed to use them. They had bottles/diapers/etc. that had some kind of electronic device in them that would shut off the crying if that's what the problem was. They also had damage reporting. If someone dropped one, it'd show up as a "bruise" in the system when the teacher connected it to the computer. I can't tell you how many girls were so frustrated with these things. It was a lesson well learned for them, though. They never had children when they were still in school.

Didn't the boys have to do that too? They had to carry the flour babies around my school.

[LascielsShadow]

Didn't the boys have to do that too? They had to carry the flour babies around my school.

When I was in school, everybody had to take one of those damn things for our health class. We had the ones that you had to stick the key in the back of (older models, I think), and I know that there was at least one school that had newer models with multiple keys representing different things. (The "best" part? We had the keys affixed to our wrists with those wristbands you can't remove without cutting/breaking, so we couldn't pawn them off on someone else for a while.) Haaaaaate forever. DX Having to deal with one of those and wanting to dropkick it into the nearest body of water by the end of the period we had to carry them around for did nothing but firmly cement "Never having children EVER" for me.

[7Deadly$ins]

When I was in 7th grade we were required to take Consumer/Family Science. I haaated that class. We didn't do the fake babies though. In my highschool, those classes were optional, and taking the babies were optional too. I don't really know why you'd want to take one home, since they were the high-tech kind, too... But whatever. I will say it always amuses me to see the new class sneak over to the "secret" smoking spot with their new babies though. Yeahhh... It may have been optional because my school is the one they send all the pregnant girls to, and most of those girls take the "family" classes already (easy As....). Plus most of them already, well, had babies.

[Timetail]

I would like to point out that, in the long run, abortion probably doesn't influence the population all that much.

 

I would also like to point out that that was an assumption based on intuition and could easily be completely wrong.

 

My issue with abortion is choice. It's not a population thing, or an environment thing. The population problem can be solved by having fewer kids, not terminating more pregnancies. It's simply that a woman has to have the right to determine what goes on in her own body, because the only other option is inconceivable.

I agree with you. It is completely the choice of the woman. If she wants an abortion, then it is her choice to get one.

[Timetail]

When I was in school, everybody had to take one of those damn things for our health class. We had the ones that you had to stick the key in the back of (older models, I think), and I know that there was at least one school that had newer models with multiple keys representing different things. (The "best" part? We had the keys affixed to our wrists with those wristbands you can't remove without cutting/breaking, so we couldn't pawn them off on someone else for a while.) Haaaaaate forever. DX Having to deal with one of those and wanting to dropkick it into the nearest body of water by the end of the period we had to carry them around for did nothing but firmly cement "Never having children EVER" for me.

I had to do that! I hated it to the ends of the earth.

[Princess Artemis]

Just found this, thought the thread might be interested in looking at some of the more...interesting...legal ramifications: Wrongful Birth and Wrongful Life tag at Overlawyered. It has many articles therein where parents have sued and won multiple millions to raise children they don't want.

[MellaBella]

I know at my school (well, my brother's school now, since I no longer attend) that our Parenting class required both girls and boys to take care of the electronic babies and wear the fake bellies. It was funny seeing a guy have to wear those ridiculous belly things..

 

Most of the people who have taken the class haven't had a child during high school. Quite a few have, though. Which is unsurprising, since the school has one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the state.. it used to have the highest, even. :/ I honestly think kids around here just don't care if they get pregnant. I know one girl who TRIED (and succeeded) to get pregnant just so she could drop out.

Edited April 30, 2012 by MellaBella

[Kestra15]

As some may remember, little sister got pregnant before Xmas and aborted.

 

I don't remember posting, but she's pregnant again and keeping this one. In part because she can't face a second abortion.

 

This is not to fuel either side of the argument. This is just to put it out there.

[Princess Artemis]

I hope the best for her Kestra. Send her Internet hugs from random strangers.

[Rosedamai]

I remember. Good luck and a hug from me too

[philpot123]

As some may remember, little sister got pregnant before Xmas and aborted.

 

I don't remember posting, but she's pregnant again and keeping this one. In part because she can't face a second abortion.

 

This is not to fuel either side of the argument. This is just to put it out there.

As much as it probably won't mean much, I will be praying for you and your sister.

[Vhale]

/wishes your sister good luck

 

Here's hoping she has a healthy, happy child with lots of support from people around her.

 

And thank you for the link from Overlawyered earlier. That was an intriguing read.

[xhunter]

As some may remember, little sister got pregnant before Xmas and aborted.

 

I don't remember posting, but she's pregnant again and keeping this one. In part because she can't face a second abortion.

 

This is not to fuel either side of the argument. This is just to put it out there.

much luck, hope she gets as much help as possible.

 

 

[Miyasha]

i dislike the idea of abortion. i would rather have the baby and put it up for adoption. i think that as soon as a baby is concieved, the shild has thought and feelings, and it would be like killing a living thing and i hate that thought, all though that is just my opinion.

 

Conception happens the moment the sperm fuses with the ovum.

 

A cell does not have thoughts or feelings.

 

A blastocyst does not have thoughts or feelings.

 

Those require a brain.

 

Granted, the brain starts to develop rather quickly, but let me stress the starts to develop part. I can't remember when it begins to send out impulses (which are still not thoughts or feelings), but it certainly isn't at conception.

 

Woman: Can I have birth control?

Government: No.

Woman: I got pregnant because I didn't have birth control and I don't want the fetus. Can I have an abortion?

Government: No.

Woman: I gave birth to my child but since I wasn't expecting it, I can't afford daycare. Can I have help paying for it?

Government: No.

 

http://passioncanneverbetakenaway.tumblr.c...trol-government

 

People care an awful lot about fetuses. Until they're born, that is. Then it's not their problem anymore (as if it ever was).

[Brite]

Hnnng. This, so much. Not even funny how true this is.

As I said before, for the government, it's, "Life starts at conception and ends at birth"

[Princess Artemis]

As I said before, for the government, it's, "Life starts at conception and ends at birth"

If that were the case, the government wouldn't spend zillions of the people's money on trying to nanny them through their entire lives.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[philpot123]

Woman: Can I have birth control?

Government: No.

Woman: I got pregnant because I didn't have birth control and I don't want the fetus. Can I have an abortion?

Government: No.

Woman: I gave birth to my child but since I wasn't expecting it, I can't afford daycare. Can I have help paying for it?

Government: No.

Dang it, I need cough drops today, my throat feels a little itchy. However will I get cough drops!?!? The government HAS to pay for it!!! Because, after all, they are constitutionally REQUIRED, and ALLOWED to do so. And besides, where else would I get cough drops if the government didn't pay for them?

 

...they're only 5 bucks at the drug store you say?

 

 

...I can get them any time I want you say?

 

 

...many school health offices give them out for free to people who need them you say?

 

 

... the govmunt still neeeds to pay...

 

 

-------------------------------------

 

 

In case you didn't notice, that was all sarcasm. Why the heck should the government provide people with contraception?? That's not their job.

 

As I said before, for the government, it's, "Life starts at conception and ends at birth"

 

Then why is the government trying to strip parental rights and have control over the children? Why do we have welfare programs?

Edited May 7, 2012 by philpot123

[Syaoransbear]

Dang it, I need cough drops today, my throat feels a little itchy. However will I get cough drops!?!? The government HAS to pay for it!!! Because, after all, they are constitutionally REQUIRED, and ALLOWED to do so. And besides, where else would I get cough drops if the government didn't pay for them?

 

...they're only 5 bucks at the drug store you say?

 

 

...I can get them any time I want you say?

 

 

...many school health offices give them out for free to people who need them you say?

 

 

... the govmunt still neeeds to pay...

 

 

-------------------------------------

 

 

In case you didn't notice, that was all sarcasm. Why the heck should the government provide people with contraception?? That's not their job.

 

 

 

Then why is the government trying to strip parental rights and have control over the children? Why do we have welfare programs?

You are misunderstanding. They are talking about the proposed banning of birth control, not about making the government pay for it.

 

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding, lol.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Syaoransbear

[Princess Artemis]

You are misunderstanding. They are talking about the proposed banning of birth control, not about making the government pay for it.

Who is proposing to ban birth control? I know the US government is stupid, but not that stupid... Which government is proposing to ban birth control but will pay for Viagra? (Follow the link for the full quote--I tend to agree that paying for Viagra and not birth control is awfully stupid, but I certainly didn't get anything about banning out of that.)

 

ETA: Yeah, probably are misunderstanding, but understandably; Miyasha dropped the end of the quote so it looks like it's saying something different than it is. It's a quote about how the government is less than forthcoming to pay for women's sex lives and the children that result but will pay for men's sex lives.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[Syaoransbear]

Who is proposing to ban birth control?  I know the US government is stupid, but not that stupid...  Which government is proposing to ban birth control but will pay for Viagra?  (Follow the link for the full quote--I tend to agree that paying for Viagra and not birth control is awfully stupid, but I certainly didn't get anything about banning out of that.)

 

ETA:  Yeah, probably are misunderstanding, but understandably; Miyasha dropped the end of the quote so it looks like it's saying something different than it is.  It's a quote about how the government is less than forthcoming to pay for women's sex lives and the children that result but will pay for men's sex lives.

Prescription birth control, the ones that make it more difficult for a fertilized egg to implant into the lining of the uterus(which is most). And that would be the US government. I thought it was in reference to all of the stuff happening recently like this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/12/m...s_n_959100.html. Or this:

 

http://www.prevention.com/health/healthy-l...rth-control-ban

"Melissa Kelley, 35, was just as stunned when her gynecologist told her she would not renew her prescription for birth control pills last fall.

 

She told me she couldn't in good faith prescribe the Pill anymore," says Kelley, who lives with her husband and son in Allentown, PA. Then the gynecologist told Kelley she wouldn't be able to get a new prescription from her family doctor, either. "She said my primary care physician was the one who helped her make the decision." Lacey's pharmacist and Kelley's doctors are among hundreds, perhaps thousands, of physicians and pharmacists who now adhere to a controversial belief that birth control pills and other forms of hormonal contraception--including the skin patch, the vaginal ring, and progesterone injections--cause tens of thousands of "silent" abortions every year. Consequently, they are refusing to prescribe or dispense them."

 

Edited May 7, 2012 by Syaoransbear

[Princess Artemis]

All right, that's interesting, didn't know about that, but That's not the US government, that's Mississippi. It's also not looking like a ban on prescription birth control, which doesn't allow fertilization to take place in the first place. (Unless they went and changed the way prescription birth controls functions on me...)

 

ETA: Which...if they did, why would anyone talk about taking birth control for PCOS anymore? Anyhow, there certainly are some medical birth controls that don't allow fertilization to take place at all, so those wouldn't be affected by such a personhood law.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[philpot123]

You are misunderstanding. They are talking about the proposed banning of birth control, not about making the government pay for it.

 

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding, lol.

Ah. I was taking it as a reference to the recent discussion of the woman Limbaugh insulted who thought it beneficial for the government to mandate contraceptive coverage. Unless I'm misinformed about the issue. My sarcastic analogy came from an article I read about it that I happened to like a lot I could be totally wrong about how she meant it, if so I apologize.