Abortion

[Omega Entity]

The point of the argument was, that better sex ed would remedy the poor education of teens regarding contraceptives and their uses and effectiveness. Being ignorant about that, and never having heard of them and their uses isn't quite on the same level, but either one contributes about equally to the issue, I'd argue - after all, if the contraception isn't being used due to lack of info or misinformation, in either situation, the result is still the same.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Omega Entity

[High Lord November]

doesn't mean they don't know at least enough to know that options for preventing pregnancy exist

 

I live in Canada, in a fairly open area, and I didn't quite know about condoms and the pill and other forms of contraceptives until we got to sex ed in highschool. And no, I don't live in the mountains, with no electricity, in the middle of nowhere, without any adults. In areas where people don't want to talk about it at all, or they push "abstinence only", or that if you have sex, you'll die, or that sex is a filthy thing, et cetera, I could really see them just not knowing. Some people, as posted before, also don't know that sex could result from pregnancy, or that if you stand up or if the girl's on top they can't get pregnant, and they'll think that they don't need protection because of those misconceptions.

If you don't know what you don't know, you can't find it, even if you have access to one of the most public, largest, accessible archives of human knowledge.

 

 

My two boys say they never want kids because neither likes kids. I told them to get vasectomies if they felt that way. Problem solved.

I wish I could do that.

Edited October 11, 2014 by High Lord November

[MedievalMystic]

Omega, I'm 49 years old. I remember sex ed when I was in middle school. If they haven't made improvements in that area by now, I don't know what to tell you.

 

High Lord, your parents never said a single word to you? I had that talk with my boys when they were 12-13 years old and told them exactly what was up. I find it hard to believe...not saying I don't believe you...that parents wouldn't inform their kids about something so important...that's just flat out strange to me...

Edited October 11, 2014 by MedievalMystic

[High Lord November]

I had that talk with my boys when they were 12-13 years old and told them exactly what was up. I find it hard to believe...not saying I don't believe you...that parents wouldn't inform their kids about something so important...that's just flat out strange to me...

Welcome to the rest of the world.

Edited October 11, 2014 by High Lord November

[MedievalMystic]

Wow. O_O I am sorry. Your parents should have told you all you needed to know as far as I'm concerned. I can't imagine why a parent wouldn't...I kind of thought 'the talk' was the norm...I guess not.... :/

 

 

sex could result from pregnancy

 

lmao! ;D

Edited October 11, 2014 by MedievalMystic

[sparkle10184]

What if someone just doesn't feel comfortable getting "fixed"? It's not a choice everyone wants to make.

[MedievalMystic]

I didn't say it was. I simply asked if women would consider the option or not. There could be some health issues associated with it that women might not want to deal with. I don't know.

[Kith]

I had that talk with my boys when they were 12-13 years old and told them exactly what was up. I find it hard to believe...not saying I don't believe you...that parents wouldn't inform their kids about something so important...that's just flat out strange to me...

My parents never said a word to me about it either. My lower-elementary public school education only covered pregnancy (where the fertilizing sperm came from was a total mystery), and my education after that was in a religious school where they taught that everything but abstinence would have you end up pregnant, diseased, or injured (IUD). I didn't learn much of anything different until I got to college, because as soon as we had a computer at home, my parents installed "babysitting" software that wouldn't allow access to that sort of information if I'd started looking for it.

[brairtrainer]

Wow. O_O I am sorry. Your parents should have told you all you needed to know as far as I'm concerned. I can't imagine why a parent wouldn't...I kind of thought 'the talk' was the norm...I guess not.... :/

 

 

 

 

lmao! ;D

Heck even where the talk is the norm you can still have issues.

 

For example, my mom and dad only talked about the pill as something some married couples use. At least until my middle sister had to try them for her high testosterone. My mom is also a big one for saying condoms don't work half the time (not true, especially if not used correctly), and stating over and over that she thinks all babies (fetuses) deserve a right to live (especially when I was doing research on birth control for mood swings and because I wanted to find out if I could stand a depo shot.)

 

I didn't start doing research and took things at the values she set until I was in college and was acutally able to figure out who I was sexually (meaning understanding my libido, learning the different options (including going to a gyno the first time I was surprised at all the options o.o even though I had learned some from this thread).

 

Really if you grow up in a pro-life/pro-forced birth home it makes it harder to go look because you're discouraged and given 'facts' by people you're supposed to trust.

[High Lord November]

My parents never said a word to me about it either. My lower-elementary public school education only covered pregnancy (where the fertilizing sperm came from was a total mystery), and my education after that was in a religious school where they taught that everything but abstinence would have you end up pregnant, diseased, or injured (IUD). I didn't learn much of anything different until I got to college, because as soon as we had a computer at home, my parents installed "babysitting" software that wouldn't allow access to that sort of information if I'd started looking for it.

There's a stigma around teaching sex that makes it seem like people will be more likely to have it if they're taught about it. That, and/or it's too awkward for the parents to talk about and they just don't.

 

That's why good sexual education in school is absolutely mandatory and necessary, because parents cannot be relied upon to give all the necessary information.

 

 

sex could result from pregnancy

 

lmao! ;D

Haha, oops.

 

 

But also, it isn't even pro-life households Rather, it isn't exclusive to them. It might be more scare-tactics, but I'd imagine that just pure no-information from your average couple is common as well.

Edited October 11, 2014 by High Lord November

[Kith]

There's a stigma around teaching sex that makes it seem like people will be more likely to have it if they're taught about it. That, and/or it's too awkward for the parents to talk about and they just don't.

 

That's why good sexual education in school is absolutely mandatory and necessary, because parents cannot be relied upon to give all the necessary information.

Right. Which is why I kept the textbook from my college-level human sexuality class, in case I or my siblings had children who needed education in that area. It'd be decades out of date on a lot of stuff before I'd get to use it, but I figured that at least I'd have a starting point if I needed it.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Kith

[catstaff]

I didn't say it was. I simply asked if women would consider the option or not. There could be some health issues associated with it that women might not want to deal with. I don't know.

Even when women want to be sterilized, it's often difficult if not impossible for them to get it done. As I understand it, most doctors will refuse to do the procedure if the woman is under 35 and/or has fewer than two children "because she might decide she wants kids someday." Heck, I asked about getting my tubes tied when I had my c-section, figuring it would be easy enough to do since they'd have me open anyway. No dice, because I was 30 and she was my first and I might want to give her a sibling someday.

 

And now that I'm 44 and could *maybe* find a doc to do the job even though I still only have one kid based on my age and the fact that any pregnancy I'd have at this point in time would be high-risk, it's still not happening any time soon because even with insurance, I can't afford it. Deductibles can be huge.

 

Anyway, yeah, BC failure at this juncture would definitely result in abortion. Being pregnant wasn't fun, I ended up on bed rest towards the end of it, and I discovered that I do not handle screaming babies very well. As in, there were a few times when I had to put her in the crib and let her literally scream herself sick, because if I'd stayed in the room with her, I would have ended up injuring her in trying to get her to shut up. No way could I go through that again, not without ending up in the psych ward or in jail.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm a good friend of hers, I don't know much else, but I do know she has two kids. She hasn't been replying because it's kinda late now where she lives.

 

I'm not at all defending her, just wanted to (at least partially) answer this.

Thank you. That was all I wanted to know ! It wasn't a matter of defending her or not, just that she did say that about people's opinions not being valid if you'd not carried a child !

[Syaoransbear]

Hmm so I need to be forced to have a child against my will before being allowed to have an opinion about being forced to have a child against my will?

Edited October 11, 2014 by Syaoransbear

[Fuzzbucket]

Omega, I'm 49 years old.  I remember sex ed when I was in middle school.  If they haven't made improvements in that area by now, I don't know what to tell you.

 

High Lord, your parents never said a single word to you?  I had that talk with my boys when they were 12-13 years old and told them exactly what was up.  I find it hard to believe...not saying I don't believe you...that parents wouldn't inform their kids about something so important...that's just flat out strange to me...

They haven't, in many areas. Believe it. I am 69. I got sex ed. There are many today who want it denied to children. Many of us are actively participating in campaigns to put an end to that - and such campaigns would not be needed if it were not so.

 

I live in both the UK and in Canada. It is not so long since I was at a school meeting about bringing in a decent sex ed programme. I was in a group where two of the parents insisted that all you need is to tell girls to keep their knees together till they marry. Another said just tell them not "to do it." When pressed,she muttered not to have intercourse. Which is defined in the dictionary - among other things - as conversation.

 

I used to work in Public Health in the UK till 8 years ago. We put out a magazine for teens with this information in - not least dispelling the myths about how to avoid pregnancy - and what does not work - things like the "fact" that you can't get pregnant your first time. . Many parents - many SCHOOLS even - banned it. We were pilloried in the local NEWSPAPER for "promoting condoms to kids." Local teachers were found to be too embarrassed to give proper sex ed, too.

 

There was a wonderful incident in the UK, too, which would have been funny if it weren't so sick, where "parental software" used by many schools blocked all words remotely connected with sex, with the result that senior high students were unable to research breast cancer. The UK government was planning to require automatic censoring like this for all ISPs which everyone who thought this was very silly would have to formally and specifically sign out of - and they would then effectively have been deemed potential porn viewers,

 

Believe it, MM. You may have done right by your kids - I certainly did - and they educated their friends, and some parents complained to me that they had not wished their children to know this stuff. But MANY do not. They figure it can wait till you marry.

Edited October 11, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Omega Entity]

Catstaff has the right of it - it's incredibly difficult, male or female, oftentimes, to get a doctor to sterilize you, regardless of your feelings on the matter. So it's not really a viable option, unless you meet their (the doctor's) requirements.

 

As for me - no, my parents didn't talk to me or my siblings about sex or contraception. But my high school sex ed course thankfully at least laid out the framework, and I wanted to be informed before I first had sex, so researched thoroughly on my own. I'm so paranoid about pregnancy I use two forms when I do have sex, which is about never since I haven't had an actual relationship in something like ten years. I really, -really- don't want children, and I highly doubt I ever will.

 

Edit: Sorry for all the edits - I typo a lot, and my thoughts are often scattered enough that I forget to add something until I hit the post button. Sigh.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Omega Entity

[Fuzzbucket]

Catstaff has the right of it - it's incredibly difficult, male or female, oftentimes, to get a doctor to sterilize you, regardless of your feelings on the matter.

True. I had to fight to get sterilised when I was 28 with two children already. And they tried to make my partner sign that he was OK with it - which to his eternal credit he refused to do - saying it wasn't up to him, only to me.

[Brite]

Pretty much this. I WANTED to be sterilized but my gyno said I was too young and suggested my IUD. So now my plan is to have my S.O get a vasectomy asap (it seems it's easier for men to get sterilized) so I can get this thing removed. Don't get me wrong, I like my contraception, but it has it's downsides and can be scary.

 

 

 

Not have an opinion until I have a child or experience pregnancy? I have a sibling and family friend that think this. And it's blood boiling because they tell me like my mind will magically change if I DO become pregnant. And if I were to have an abortion, they'd see me as some and wouldn't forgive me for a while. Seems like a lose/lose situation for me. How can you think that we can't have opinions unless we experience this?

 

Sex ed with parents AND school were both a loss. School just used the awful abstinence scare, and my father gave me some spiritual bs with his belief that made even less sense. I had to learn real info from a special program that happened in a night school that required parent signatures. I ALMOST couldn't go.. almost.

Edited October 11, 2014 by GhostChilli

[Omega Entity]

Frankly, anyone telling me how I will feel or won't feel - about ANYTHING - pisses me off. How condescending and patronizing, and frankly, insulting that anyone has the audacity to assume what -anyone- will think and feel one way or another. The only person who knows how they feel or how they might feel is the person themselves, no one else.

[Fuzzbucket]

Frankly, anyone telling me how I will feel or won't feel - about ANYTHING - pisses me off. How condescending and patronizing, and frankly, insulting that anyone has the audacity to assume what -anyone- will think and feel one way or another. The only person who knows how they feel or how they might feel is the person themselves, no one else.

And while they may be at some times surprised by how they feel about all sorts of things (WOW I actually LOVE bungee jumping ????!) - no-one else can predict that for them

[Kestra15]

I hate kids who think we are obligated to serve their whims.

Isn't that what the fetus does for nine months?

[MedievalMystic]

I hate kids who think we are obligated to serve their whims.

 

Blame the parent who says 'no' then gives the kid what they want when the kid throws a fit in public. I'd like to smack those brain dead parents upside the head for sheer stupidity. If I had an outing planned for my boys and they threw fits, outing over. If I went to the store with them and they threw a fit because they wanted something and I said no, I immediately left the store and they got to go home and stare at the walls for a couple hours. They learned real quick that bad behavior hurt them, never me.

 

My youngest son, Dylan, and I were at the mall when he was about 5. He had a quarter in his hand and kept dropping it, so every couple steps I had to stop and wait for him to pick it up...again and again. I finally got tired of it and told him to put it in his pocket. I told him that if he dropped it again, it was mine. He didn't listen, kept playing with it and dropped it again so I took it. He immediately threw himself down onto the floor and was shrieking like a banshee and thrashing around. I simply walked away. Didn't say a word. I was half way across the mall by the time he realized he didn't have an audience. He came running after me, scared, and kept his mouth shut. He never pulled that crap again. lol

 

Isn't that what the fetus does for nine months?

 

No. Last I heard, a fetus isn't capable of whims.

Edited October 11, 2014 by MedievalMystic

[Brite]

Blame the parent who says 'no' then gives the kid what they want when the kid throws a fit in public.  I'd like to smack those brain dead parents upside the head for sheer stupidity.  If I had an outing planned for my boys and they threw fits, outing over.  If I went to the store with them and they threw a fit because they wanted something and I said no, I immediately left the store and they got to go home and stare at the walls for a couple hours.  They learned real quick that bad behavior hurt them, never me.

 

My youngest son, Dylan, and I were at the mall when he was about 5.  He had a quarter in his hand and kept dropping it,  so every couple steps I had to stop and wait for him to pick it up...again and again.  I finally got tired of it and told him to put it in his pocket.  I told him that if he dropped it again, it was mine.  He didn't listen, kept playing with it and dropped it again so I took it.  He immediately threw himself down onto the floor and was shrieking like a banshee and thrashing around.  I simply walked away.  Didn't say a word.  I was half way across the mall by the time he realized he didn't have an audience.  He came running after me, scared, and kept his mouth shut.  He never pulled that crap again.  lol   

 

 

 

Good tactics, but a few parents from my elementary school years ago tried that and ended up being investigated for abuse. One parent did what you did, and just walked away, and she was branded for abandonment.

 

You can't do good punishment anymore without someone crying "abuse, that's ABUSE! Get those kids away from those parents!" it sickens me

 

No. Last I heard, a fetus isn't capable of whims.

 

Well, that just adds on that fetuses aren't children

[JavaTigress]

Catstaff has the right of it - it's incredibly difficult, male or female, oftentimes, to get a doctor to sterilize you, regardless of your feelings on the matter. So it's not really a viable option, unless you meet their (the doctor's) requirements.

Why is that?

 

I mean... if the TRUTH were told I would far, FAR rather those that never want kids were able to have themselves sterilized easily. That would make for fewer abortions I am thinking... and I don't think they give a MAN that kind of grief for it if a man wants a vasectomy, do they?

Edited October 11, 2014 by Silverswift

[brairtrainer]

Why is that?

Most of what I've heard is that its the fear of being sued. That you'll later decide you want children but can't because of the procedure. While it is apparently easier to undo it for a male, getting your tubes tied is permanent.

 

That, and most people don't believe there are women or female bodied women who do not want children. They play it off as once you hit late twenties/early thirties your biological clock is going to kick in and suddenly you'll want kids.