Abortion

[edwardelricfreak]

and a fetus is not a baby

 

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I think everybody who has not been pregnant (as a wish) or has a child (as a wish) can not have a real opinion

No, it's not. The term 'baby' applies to a newBORN, emphasis on the born, or young infant. It has to be out of the womb to be a baby by definition. I know many still refer to anything even in the womb as a baby, though, but it's not technically a baby yet.

 

----

 

Why don't their opinions matter? I DON'T want to be pregnant. Do I never get a say?

[Fuzzbucket]

Right

 

and a fetus is not a baby

 

and so on.....

 

It is a development and it starts with the conception, within the conception is the possibility of life and I think we don't have the right to judge about that. Earlier we were even not able to abort a fetus

 

I think everybody who has not been pregnant (as a wish) or has a child (as a wish) can not have a real opinion

I have had two children and two grandchildren and I very much have an opinion. If I had not had the abortion I did when I did, none of those four people would ever have existed, and I would have been living on benefits in some grotty slum. If I hadn't killed myself instead. That baby would have had a hell of a life, and I would never have put a child into the "care" system. (If you follow the news in the UK, where I was at the time, a system where it would probably have been sexually abused, among other things.)

 

My contraceptive failed. A pregnancy carried to term would have effectively ended my life. I have no phobias about any of it; I am not afraid of any of it - but there are circumstances in which it is far better for that CLUMP OF CELLS, that parasite (much as I loved my two, they were parasites for 9 months and one of them kindly left me dangerously anaemic !) to be ejected - just as when there is spontaneous abortion (some 25% or more of pregnancies end that way NATURALLY, don't forget.)

Edited October 10, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Omen]

Right

 

and a fetus is not a baby

 

and so on.....

 

It is a development and it starts with the conception, within the conception is the possibility of life and I think we don't have the right to judge about that. Earlier we were even not able to abort a fetus

 

I think everybody who has not been pregnant (as a wish) or has a child (as a wish) can not have a real opinion

That's a loaded statement. You're entitled to your own opinions, Tabitah, just as everyone else is. These opinions are as real and valid as the people making them want them to be.

 

I would consider abortion if it meant the difference between life and death. At this stage, I do not have, or want children, if I can even carry them. I don't see that choice changing any time soon, but I'm not about to commit to that decision as it would be a choice I'd make with a future partner. If I ever get interested in pursuing a relationship of that magnitude.

 

Irregardless of having a neurological condition where a full term pregnancy might not even be possible without serious complications, my life, where it is at now would be heavily impacted by the presence of a newborn. Both physically and psychologically. I defied the odds against me and pulled through by force of will and determination once before, but I don't know if I can do it again. So if something threatens my life, my way of living, and I don't want whatever is threatening that, I'm going to do everything in my power to avoid it. If that means ending the existence of an unborn fetus, that's my choice to make, and nobody has the right to take that away from me. If that makes me a horrible person, than so be it. I'd rather be a horrible person than be back in that state of body and mind I once was.

 

If it isn't bolded and underlined enough, I am pro choice. What someone else does with their body is no business of mine.

[sparkle10184]

I think everybody who has not been pregnant (as a wish) or has a child (as a wish) can not have a real opinion

So I can't have an opinion about an issue that affects me?

[Tabitah]

...As a wish...? As in, you're allowed to have an opinion if you want kids, but not if you don't?

 

So we're... not letting the people who don't want kids chime in on the decision about having kids or not...?

 

Even just that requirement is not based in logic but pure emotion.

Means those people can't even have a real opinion as they have no idea what it means to carry life within them

[Tabitah]

I have had two children and two grandchildren and I very much have an opinion. If I had not had the abortion I did when I did, none of those four people would ever have existed, and I would have been living on benefits in some grotty slum. If I hadn't killed myself instead. That baby would have had a hell of a life, and I would never have put a child into the "care" system. (If you follow the news in the UK, where I was at the time, a system where it would probably have been sexually abused, among other things.)

 

My contraceptive failed. A pregnancy carried to term would have effectively ended my life. I have no phobias about any of it; I am not afraid of any of it - but there are circumstances in which it is far better for that CLUMP OF CELLS, that parasite (much as I loved my two, they were parasites for 9 months and one of them kindly left me dangerously anaemic !) to be ejected - just as when there is spontaneous abortion (some 25% or more of pregnancies end that way NATURALLY, don't forget.)

How can you know about what life they would have? You can only imagine but never know!!!

 

And I don't talk about having a baby risking mom's life, that is totally different you can not say it in general, I only judge people who have no idea of it at all and make an opinion out of sayings or 'scientific terms'

[Tabitah]

That's a loaded statement. You're entitled to your own opinions, Tabitah, just as everyone else is. These opinions are as real and valid as the people making them want them to be.

 

I would consider abortion if it meant the difference between life and death. At this stage, I do not have, or want children, if I can even carry them. I don't see that choice changing any time soon, but I'm not about to commit to that decision as it would be a choice I'd make with a future partner. If I ever get interested in pursuing a relationship of that magnitude.

 

Irregardless of having a neurological condition where a full term pregnancy might not even be possible without serious complications, my life, where it is at now would be heavily impacted by the presence of a newborn. Both physically and psychologically. I defied the odds against me and pulled through by force of will and determination once before, but I don't know if I can do it again. So if something threatens my life, my way of living, and I don't want whatever is threatening that, I'm going to do everything in my power to avoid it. If that means ending the existence of an unborn fetus, that's my choice to make, and nobody has the right to take that away from me. If that makes me a horrible person, than so be it. I'd rather be a horrible person than be back in that state of body and mind I once was.

 

If it isn't bolded and underlined enough, I am pro choice. What someone else does with their body is no business of mine.

Please don't get me wrong, of course we do all have 'only' our own personal opinion but I don't agree people just talking about something without having any experience, the imagination is different from real life

 

If you don't want babies there are ways to avoid them, if they don't work is again something else

 

I know a lot of women where men do not accept those methods and they abort eggs like going to toilett :-(

[prpldrgnfr]

Means those people can't even have a real opinion as they have no idea what it means to carry life within them

So your saying that anyone who is capable of carrying life inside themselves, but can't/does't want to, doesn't get to have an a say? *shakes head in disbelief*

 

Did you read fuzz's post? Her contraception *failed*. I also think she has a *very* good idea of what her/the potential child's life would have been like had she not aborted it.

[Shienvien]

I know a lot of women where men do not accept those methods and they abort eggs like going to toilett :-(

That is a myth, plain and simple. The number of people who have more than one-two abortions is pretty much negligible.

 

There are also things like the other half tampering with birth control (abuse!) and some contraceptives just failing for that individual - some people can only get pregnant *while* taking BC pills, for instance.

[Tabitah]

So your saying that anyone who is capable of carrying life inside themselves, but can't/does't want to, doesn't get to have an a say? *shakes head in disbelief*

 

Did you read fuzz's post? Her contraception *failed*. I also think she has a *very* good idea of what her/the potential child's life would have been like had she not aborted it.

I have read it, have you read all my posts?

 

And no, I think you did not get me right (or I did not express myself right as I am not native english and the discussion is a bit difficult), I said that someone who has never been pregnant can't built a clear opinion about it

[Omen]

Please don't get me wrong, of course we do all have 'only' our own personal opinion but I don't agree people just talking about something without having any experience, the imagination is different from real life

 

If you don't want babies there are ways to avoid them, if they don't work is again something else

 

I know a lot of women where men do not accept those methods and they abort eggs like going to toilett :-(

Thank you for clearing that up Tabitah, I interpreted your previous comment in a manner that made it out like we weren't entitled to an opinion at all. I still think that if someone has not carried a child, or plans to, their opinions are just as real as those that have. Having a child is a wonderful experience to some, and a nightmare to others. At this stage, it would be a nightmare to me.

 

In regards to contraception, none of these methods are 100% guaranteed to prevent pregnancy. If a couple uses multiple forms and still end up getting pregnant, then they should have the right to abort if the pregnancy is unwanted. Whether it is unwanted for physical or psychological health, or even if they just don't want children, that's their choice. If the one that's pregnant wants to abort, but the other one does not, then the pregnant one should have the final say. It's their body, and I believe it should be their choice.

 

I do not agree with using abortion as the only form of avoiding childbirth, but if it is the only option left to someone, it is ultimately their choice what they do with their body.

[prpldrgnfr]

Yes, I read them, Tabitah. I may have misunderstood you a little, but I do disagree with your opinion that someone who hasn't been pregnant can't have a clear opinion about it. I think they very much can, I wouldn't want anyone to have to get/be pregnant to be able to say that pregnancy isn't right for them.

Edited October 10, 2014 by prpldrgnfr

[Fuzzbucket]

Yes, I read them, Tabitah.    I may have misunderstood you a little, but I do disagree with your opinion that someone who hasn't been pregnant can't have a clear opinion about it.  I think they very much can, I wouldn't want anyone to have to get/be pregnant to be able to say that pregnancy isn't right for them.

LORD no.

 

And this earth IS overpopulated....

 

Tabitah - how many children have you ?

Edited October 10, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Tabitah]

Yes, I read them, Tabitah. I may have misunderstood you a little, but I do disagree with your opinion that someone who hasn't been pregnant can't have a clear opinion about it. I think they very much can, I wouldn't want anyone to have to get/be pregnant to be able to say that pregnancy isn't right for them.

Why is it so far away that beeing suprisley and unexpected pregnant is a gift, something beautiful? Even if it doesn't match in the actual life circumstances for somebody and brings a lot of fear and thoughts or problems, it can be different.

 

That is all I want people to think about.

 

It is easy to throw a life away, the quickest solution but if you have ever had a baby in your arms then you could never abort one.

[Fuzzbucket]

Why is it so far away that beeing suprisley and unexpected pregnant is a gift, something beautiful? Even if it doesn't match in the actual life circumstances for somebody and brings a lot of fear and thoughts or problems, it can be different.

 

That is all I want people to think about.

 

It is easy to throw a life away, the quickest solution but if you have ever had a baby in your arms then you could never abort one.

I have held my babies, I have breastfed them, I have reared them to adulthood; I have held my baby grandchildren - and I certainly could abort (again) should it be necessary FOR ME.

 

I ask again - how many children have you ?

Have you ever been pregnant ?

 

As you seem reluctant to answer - may I remind you of your own post:

 

And no, I think you did not get me right (or I did not express myself right as I am not native english and the discussion is a bit difficult), I said that someone who has never been pregnant can't built a clear opinion about it

 

I am interested to know whether you have a clear opinion of this issue, as you say a clear opinion must be based on EXPERIENCE ?

Edited October 10, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Birdwhispers]

It is easy to throw a life away, the quickest solution but if you have ever had a baby in your arms then you could never abort one.

I've held a baby once and only once and I can easily say it was not a good or happy feeling for me. The baby wasn't crying or being bad or anything, but I couldn't stand it due to paedophobia. When I even so much as see or hear babies, I want to hide away in the quietness and comfort of..well...anywhere but there (but most preferably my room). I know I'm not the only person who feels this way either, so no, holding a baby will not make everyone just immediately realise that they could never abort a fetus.

Edited October 10, 2014 by XDragon52

[prpldrgnfr]

Why is it so far away that beeing suprisley and unexpected pregnant is a gift, something beautiful? Even if it doesn't match in the actual life circumstances for somebody and brings a lot of fear and thoughts or problems, it can be different.

 

That is all I want people to think about.

 

It is easy to throw a life away, the quickest solution but if you have ever had a baby in your arms then you could never abort one.

Not everyone sees surprise pregnancy as a gift, however. For some people, it could be the absolute most horrible thing to happen to them. These people have thought about it, to the point that if they were forced to be pregnant, they would actually, literally kill themself to *not* be pregnant. It is not throwing a life away(what about the life of the pregnant person?) or a quick solution for most. I have had babies in my arms, and at this point, should I find myself pregnant, abortion would be the best choice for myself/family.

[BlitzDrake]

It is easy to throw a life away, the quickest solution but if you have ever had a baby in your arms then you could never abort one.

Babies/fetuses disgust me more than you could ever fathom. I would abort one faster than you could say "adios" if any contraception ever failed me. I would rather KILL myself than have to endure being cursed with a parasite. I have a chronic phobia that would destroy any stability I have left. You have no right to tell us "Ohhhh you'll change your mind sweetie". That line of thinking is just downright narrow and offensive. You don't know us, what we go through, nor why we think a certain way. So what gives you a right to tell us how we would think?

 

It's also taking a responsible decision.

 

That "life" may also become a tumor/calcified mass that turns into nothing. But because it has a heartbeat it's totally alive right? No. It's not. Just because something has a heartbeat doesn't mean it's alive. Just because something reacts to light, does not mean it's alive. Plants do the same thing to light (I hope you've never killed any weeds, because you're throwing their lives into the dirt too) because of stimuli.

 

I’ve asked this one before, but I rarely get a straight answer: If a woman intentionally terminates a pregnancy in a pro-life nation, how much time should she do? If a fetus is a person and a woman intentionally terminates the life of that fetus, should she go to jail? Be up for the death penalty? In almost any other circumstance, a person who intentionally kills another person — or who pays someone to do the killing for them — is prosecuted. Why should women who terminate pregnancies be exceptions? And if women who terminate pregnancies should be excepted because they just don’t know better, should the same hold true for women who intentionally kill their born children? For women who intentionally kill strangers

Edited October 10, 2014 by BlightWyvern

[Birdwhispers]

Well said, Blight. I was trying to express that general idea as well, but I'm not the best at typing my thoughts out. You managed to express what I feel a lot better than I did! I agree that I hate when people say I'll "change my mind." The way people say it is almost patronizing and it frustrates me.

[Chouette]

Babies/fetuses disgust me more than you could ever fathom. I would abort one faster than you could say "adios" if any contraception ever failed me. I would rather KILL myself than have to endure being cursed with a parasite. I have a chronic phobia that would destroy any stability I have left. You have no right to tell us "Ohhhh you'll change your mind sweetie". That line of thinking is just downright narrow and offensive. You don't know us, what we go through, nor why we think a certain way. So what gives you a right to tell us how we would think?

 

It's also taking a responsible decision.

 

That "life" may also become a tumor/calcified mass that turns into nothing. But because it has a heartbeat it's totally alive right? No. It's not. Just because something has a heartbeat doesn't mean it's alive. Just because something reacts to light, does not mean it's alive. Plants do the same thing to light (I hope you've never killed any weeds, because you're throwing their lives into the dirt too) because of stimuli.

 

I completely agree with this. The idea that anyone will instantly change their mind upon holding a baby sounds straight out of corny soap operas, not to mention patronizing. We're all different and each of us will react differently to pregnancy and babies, and that's why I'm pro-choice... I don't think anyone should ever have or feel the right to command someone else what to do. And literally everyone is entitled to have an opinion on the matter.

[Fuzzbucket]

I have held my babies, I have breastfed them, I have reared them to adulthood; I have held my baby grandchildren - and I certainly could abort (again) should it be necessary FOR ME.

 

I ask again - how many children have you ?

Have you ever been pregnant ?

 

As you seem reluctant to answer - may I remind you of your own post:

 

And no, I think you did not get me right (or I did not express myself right as I am not native english and the discussion is a bit difficult), I said that someone who has never been pregnant can't built a clear opinion about it

 

I am interested to know whether you have a clear opinion of this issue, as you say a clear opinion must be based on EXPERIENCE ?

I still hope for an answer here.... It seems to me important...

[Starscream]

Babies/fetuses disgust me more than you could ever fathom. I would abort one faster than you could say "adios" if any contraception ever failed me. I would rather KILL myself than have to endure being cursed with a parasite. I have a chronic phobia that would destroy any stability I have left.

 

The road to hell is paved with good intent. I am using your quote because I agree with it QFT

 

I think I am actually in this boat myself.

I really can't stand babies.

I really can't stand my temper either.

 

Let me express what goes through my mind when babies are around and why, my choice was probably a good one. I will use my exact thoughts so I apologise to anyone who might find my words scary/offensive.

 

- I do not find babies cute.

- I find them repulsive multi-limbed maggots.

- I usually wish parents with newborns would stay at home rather than bring their creature with them to the supermarket. It is off-putting.

- When I enter a restaurant, I will ask for a section that does not have any small children/infants.

- When my sister had a baby, I refused outright to hold it. I never held her as a child and things got better after she was about 3 - 4. I am okay with children (to a degree) but only for very short periods.

- I hear them, my skin crawls. T

- hey scream I start feeling violet urges (that terrify me). I usually desire duct tape to make the noise go away. I generally leave the area providing I am not locked in by work.

- There are far better people suited to the baby production/ raising than me.

- the smell of babies revolt me.

- I consider them parasitical and actually so does my mother.

- I currently do not have the financial stability to provide the child with the life they need.

- my violent temper my be problematic to the child - I would never wish harm on them, but I can be so highly unpredictable.

 

So holding a baby for me does not equate to love because of my strong dislike for them. I don't know that I would kill myself over it, my survival instincts are pretty strong. But I just went through a summer of hell where I had no money for food. I had no food. And I went hungry for a couple days at a time. Any food I had went to my husband so he can work, while I was looking for jobs.

 

my temper is something that I fear, that I am getting help with, but I can turn into something incredibly scary and quite dangerous. I do not want to hurt anyone I care or love, which is why I seek help. The cause of my temper is directly linked to the luteal phase of my menstrual cycle - so I either treat it with birth control pills or another medication. I can't even begin to describe the terrifying feelings I can get when my mood swings into anger/rage for two straight weeks. This is not the regular PMS anger - tears when a pencil breaks. this is full fledged, teeth grinding fury, with urges to do some serious damage. That fury sent me to the hospital with heart issues. I could not imagine being locked into that for longer.

 

people may think I hate children, but I don't I merely dislike them.

 

But what I do hate are people who harm children, murder them after they are born because they didn't want them. People who abandon them, leave them in hot cars, people who don't feed them right.

 

When I read about parents who beat their baby to death and I think. if they didn't want the kid, why did they allow it to get so far?

 

But I would not want to chance a child to find out my temper doesn't mellow. I would not want to suffer the hate on myself for harming my own flesh and blood.

 

So abortion for me is the right and most sane choice. A choice my family is in full support of if I needed it.

 

I will agree that others will not agree with me. But others have no right to force their opinions onto me. They need to agree that they disagree with me and let me go in peace. I am a good example of why Abortion should be available should contraception fail.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Starscream

[F.ury]

Babies/fetuses disgust me more than you could ever fathom. I would abort one faster than you could say "adios" if any contraception ever failed me. I would rather KILL myself than have to endure being cursed with a parasite. I have a chronic phobia that would destroy any stability I have left. You have no right to tell us "Ohhhh you'll change your mind sweetie". That line of thinking is just downright narrow and offensive. You don't know us, what we go through, nor why we think a certain way. So what gives you a right to tell us how we would think?

This. I absolutely hate babies and small children; they disgust me and I have no desire to be anywhere near them. I would also prefer death over a forced pregnancy. Moreover, as someone who has such a strong dislike of babies and small children, I would a terrible parent for one of them. And telling someone "Oh, just have the baby and give it up for adoption then" is in no way a solution. There are already so many unwanted kids who then end up in the foster care system and are emotionally, physically, and/or sexually abused. Many children who enter the foster care system stay there until they turn 18 and are legally adults, at which point they are basically thrown out onto the street and told to fend for themselves. It's far better to abort a pregnancy than to give birth to an unwanted baby who must either live with an unloving, uncaring parent or be placed into a foster care system where babies and children are not cared about and are generally abused at some point.

 

A woman always has the right to choose what to do with her own body. End of story. If you are someone who doesn't personally like abortions, then that's your own opinion. However, you do not get to force that opinion on others. If you'd like to see fewer abortions happening, stop trying to pass misogynistic anti-abortion legislation and work on passing laws to provide free contraceptives for everyone, including people who do not have health insurance. That's going to cut down on the number of abortions performed without infringing on anyone's rights to their own body. But the so-called "pro-life" supporters are never going to do that because they view pregnancy and forcing someone (generally a woman, but not always) to give birth as a way of punishing them for having sex. They aren't "pro-life", they are "pro-forced birth".

Edited October 10, 2014 by F.ury

[Jelly_Doughnut]

I honestly do support abortions, especially if the baby (or mother) wouldn't survive childbirth. But I really don't understand why so many people hate babies. You people used to be one too...

[Fuzzbucket]

I honestly do support abortions, especially if the baby (or mother) wouldn't survive childbirth. But I really don't understand why so many people hate babies. You people used to be one too...

We didn't have to live with ourselves while we were babies. (not that I do hate babies - just saying !)