No More Chosen One, PLEASE!

[Obscure_Trash]

Just because not all of those things helped him in the final battle (though many did)

 

As far as I can tell, natural talent isn't really something that is inherited.

Harry's flying ability helped him in many circumstances (for instance, the dragon challenge in the Goblet of Fire) and is something that he didn't have to work for. Even natural athletes have to work for their abilities, to keep them up and improve them and such. Harry was an excellent seeker and flier without having ever practiced.

 

Protection by his mother was still a special gift that ended up saving his life. And it was something only he had. As said before in this thread, many other children most likely had parents that died protecting them, and yet they still died because they weren't the CO.

 

Patronous is an advanced spell, meaning no matter how easy it may seem in theory, you do need to practice it and have a good control over your magic, and isn't a spell he wouldn't have even been considered being taught then if the dementors hadn't been at the school that year.

He learned it third year. By the time he taught it to others he was in fifth year, a year many of the other students were either in or beyond. And don't assume they learned it quickly. There are a lot of time gaps in the book that we don't follow, because nothing much happens in them.

 

Just because he only saw into Voldemort's mind when sleeping doesn't mean he didn't still have that connection, ending up saving Arther's life once. No one else could do it, though. Only Harry.

 

He still had parselmouth (would not of if he wasn't the Chosen One) and didn't have to work to learn it. Doesn't matter if that's how it goes, it was a special gift that not many people had.

 

Yes, Hermione was good at classes, but as Rowling herself said: "Throughout the series, Rowling wrote Harry Potter as a gifted wizard apprentice. She stated in a 2000 interview with South West News Service that Harry Potter is "particularly talented" in Defence Against the Dark Arts, and also good at Quidditch.[29] Rowling said in the same interview that until about halfway through the third book, his good friend Hermione Granger—written as the smartest student in Harry's year—would have beaten Harry in a magical duel. From the fourth book onwards, Rowling admits Harry has become quite talented in the Defence Against the Dark Arts and would beat his friend Hermione in a magical duel.[29]" - here

Harry didn't work hard at very many spells. Most he was good at just came naturally.

 

Exactly. The Elder Wand is a special item/gift, the "wand to beat Voldemort with". And who ended up as its master? Harry, the Chosen One.

 

The spell, which should have ended up killing Harry, still ended up saving Harry's life and killing Voldemort's, no matter how you word it.

 

Harry has too much stuff going for him to not be a Chosen One.

 

actually because harry accidentally went into snapes mind the lessons were cancelled.

 

Because Harry didn't try to learn - he didn't do any of the reading - and I'm sure I could find the quote somewhere on Harry believing it to be better if he had access into Voldemort's mind rather than blocking him off. He went to the lessons (at first) because Dumbledore made him, but still didn't see why he should.

Edited September 3, 2010 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Zovesta]

In all honesty, considering what teenage heroes are today - angsty, whiny, useless - Mary Sues and Gary Stus aren't that bad.

The main character of a story of mine is like that, except he's 28 (technically, as he's only 8 and a monster) and arrogant, too. Mainly he's pathetic.

 

Sock is too right. >_> Harry is a CO. Could you see Hermoine as the one who defeated all of these enemies and Voldy if Harry never existed? No, because Harry was needed to send Voldemort into hiding the first time.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Zovesta

[JaziandCo]

actually because harry accidentally went into snapes mind the lessons were cancelled.

Nope, even before that he was purposely not doing the excersises Snape gave him, because he thought he was right and that his way would be better. Snape's cancelling the lessons only really gave him an better excuse not to do it anymore than "I dun wanna"

[crazywargod]

Just because not all of those things helped him in the final battle (though many did)

 

As far as I can tell, natural talent isn't really something that is inherited.

Harry's flying ability helped him in many circumstances (for instance, the dragon challenge in the Goblet of Fire) and is something that he didn't have to work for. Even natural athletes have to work for their abilities, to keep them up and improve them and such. Harry was an excellent seeker and flier without having ever practiced.

 

Protection by his mother was still a special gift that ended up saving his life. And it was something only he had. As said before in this thread, many other children most likely had parents that died protecting them, and yet they still died because they weren't the CO.

 

Patronous is an advanced spell, meaning no matter how easy it may seem in theory, you do need to practice it and have a good control over your magic, and isn't a spell he wouldn't have even been considered being taught then if the dementors hadn't been at the school that year.

He learned it third year. By the time he taught it to others he was in fifth year, a year many of the other students were either in or beyond. And don't assume they learned it quickly. There are a lot of time gaps in the book that we don't follow, because nothing much happens in them.

 

Just because he only saw into Voldemort's mind when sleeping doesn't mean he didn't still have that connection, ending up saving Arther's life once. No one else could do it, though. Only Harry.

 

He still had parselmouth (would not of if he wasn't the Chosen One) and didn't have to work to learn it. Doesn't matter if that's how it goes, it was a special gift that not many people had.

 

Yes, Hermione was good at classes, but as Rowling herself said: "Throughout the series, Rowling wrote Harry Potter as a gifted wizard apprentice. She stated in a 2000 interview with South West News Service that Harry Potter is "particularly talented" in Defence Against the Dark Arts, and also good at Quidditch.[29] Rowling said in the same interview that until about halfway through the third book, his good friend Hermione Granger—written as the smartest student in Harry's year—would have beaten Harry in a magical duel. From the fourth book onwards, Rowling admits Harry has become quite talented in the Defence Against the Dark Arts and would beat his friend Hermione in a magical duel.[29]" - here

Harry didn't work hard at very many spells. Most he was good at just came naturally.

 

Exactly. The Elder Wand is a special item/gift, the "wand to beat Voldemort with". And who ended up as its master? Harry, the Chosen One.

 

The spell, which should have ended up killing Harry, still ended up saving Harry's life and killing Voldemort's, no matter how you word it.

 

Harry has too much stuff going for him to not be a Chosen One.

 

 

 

Because Harry didn't try to learn - he didn't do any of the reading - and I'm sure I could find the quote somewhere on Harry believing it to be better if he had access into Voldemort's mind rather than blocking him off. He went to the lessons (at first) because Dumbledore made him, but still didn't see why he should.

You don't think quiditch practice hellped at all for flying skill?

 

 

A gift he gave to his allies.

 

 

It was explained all you need is happy thoughts. The happier the better. It was also said that animal form is strongest. Something he obtaind in life or death situation. Anybody could have done the same in his position. He did work at it.

 

 

Something that was a double edge sword. Voldemort could use it, and did use it, too.

 

 

You got me for DATDA.

 

 

It wasn't harry's fault he became its master. Malfoy was beaten by harry hence becoming its master. He didn't even realise it till late.

 

 

The spell did not save his life. The wand did.

 

 

In the end harry had very little going for him. If the wand had not recognised harry as its master it would have been all over for him.

[Zovesta]

I doubt Quidditch really helped, simply because it was stated that he was a natural, he brought glory to Gryffndor's name, and didn't he make the fastest catch in a long time or something?

[crazywargod]

I doubt Quidditch really helped, simply because it was stated that he was a natural, he brought glory to Gryffndor's name, and didn't he make the fastest catch in a long time or something?

He still had to go to practice and the snitch was a tricky sucker. If you weren't good you would fail. Practice helped.

[Obscure_Trash]

You don't think quiditch practice hellped at all for flying skill?

 

 

A gift he gave to his allies.

 

 

It was explained all you need is happy thoughts. The happier the better. It was also said that animal form is strongest. Something he obtaind in life or death situation. Anybody could have done the same in his position. He did work at it.

 

 

Something that was a double edge sword. Voldemort could use it, and did use it, too.

 

 

You got me for DATDA.

 

 

It wasn't harry's fault he became its master. Malfoy was beaten by harry hence becoming its master. He didn't even realise it till late.

 

 

The spell did not save his life. The wand did.

 

 

In the end harry had very little going for him. If the wand had not recognised harry as its master it would have been all over for him.

He had never flown at all before that gym class. He was as good that day as he was after. It was all natural ability.

 

How did he give his mother's love to his allies? o.O

 

You don't "just need to think happy thoughts" or else patronouses would have been popping up any time someone was happy. Magic and intense focus and concentration was also involved. And magic takes energy, effort, time, and practice. Or else why did they go to school? Why couldn't they all master all spells the first time they tried them? It'd be like me trying (and succeeding) to do calc III problems even though I'm only just starting calc II. Easier said than done.

And not everyone could have done that. Hermione didn't and she was right there. Harry could because he is the CO.

 

Even as a double-edge sword, he still had it and it still gave him insight into Voldemort's head, ending up with him saving Arther's life.

 

It was the fault of Harry being the Chosen One. I'd have to go back over it but I remember finding the whole thing very flaky when I read the book.

 

I didn't say the spell saved his life. I said it should have killed him and it would have if he was not the CO.

 

Harry had everything going for him in the end. That's just the type of book it was.

[crazywargod]

He had never flown at all before that gym class. He was as good that day as he was after. It was all natural ability.

 

How did he give his mother's love to his allies? o.O

 

You don't "just need to think happy thoughts" or else patronouses would have been popping up any time someone was happy. Magic and intense focus and concentration was also involved. And magic takes energy, effort, time, and practice. Or else why did they go to school? Why couldn't they all master all spells the first time they tried them? It'd be like me trying (and succeeding) to do calc III problems even though I'm only just starting calc II. Easier said than done.

And not everyone could have done that. Hermione didn't and she was right there. Harry could because he is the CO.

 

Even as a double-edge sword, he still had it and it still gave him insight into Voldemort's head, ending up with him saving Arther's life.

 

It was the fault of Harry being the Chosen One. I'd have to go back over it but I remember finding the whole thing very flaky when I read the book.

 

I didn't say the spell saved his life. I said it should have killed him and it would have if he was not the CO.

 

Harry had everything going for him in the end. That's just the type of book it was.

He had practice though. He caught nevill's remembrall and then started to practice. By the 4th book he had already practiced for 4 years. Just because he was naturally good does not mean he never got better through practice. Which he did.

 

 

Read my quote from the 7th book.

 

 

You concentrated the thoughts into the spell. Kinda obvious. He did take time, energy, and practice. Only when he was truely in trouble did he get it right. This often happens in books. CO or not CO books.

 

 

He had it but rarely used it. Sure it saved arthur but that was coincidence. It might have popped up when voldy was bathing. It was luck it happened to do any good.

 

 

No the EW was a pretty straight forward deal. Malfoy disarmed dumbledore before dumbledore was killed unknowingly becoming EW's master. Harry then disarmed malfoy unknowingly becoming EW's master.

 

 

The spell, which should have ended up killing Harry, still ended up saving Harry's life

You did say it saved him.^

 

The wand saved him. The rightful master.

[darkangel787]

I think I've said this...

but it was luck that made harry happen to be the actual maste,r not because he was a CO!

 

 

[crazywargod]

Now I am not saying, anymore at least, thay harry wasn't a CO. Just a different type. There is your typical CO that reluctantly accepts he is a CO and comes to terms with it. There is your unwanting CO that never truely accepts his role even if he accomplishes the job. There is your self CO who right from the beginning accepts the role he has been handed.

 

 

I would put harry in the third category. Sure call him a CO but he chose it himself. He accepted that he was chosen with no reluctance. He had his moments to quit or wanted to quit but that is natural for anybody CO or not. He didn't quit and right from the start wanted to do it. So Self-Chosen One. A Sub-Type of chosen one.

[7Deadly$ins]

He was quite reluctant, actually, especially at the end of the fifth book right after he learned about the prophecy.

[crazywargod]

He was quite reluctant, actually, especially at the end of the fifth book right after he learned about the prophecy.

No not really. Everything he did was his choice till book 4 when his name was put in the goblet of fire and that was only but I'm famous already why do I need more. Afterwards he was quite quick to accept his position. At the end of book 5 was him depressed that he lost black. His only remaining family further fueling his desire to fill the roll of the chosen one. If black had not died I don't think he would have been so eager. With black dead he was in mind that he had nothing left to lose. Which only furthers my claim he was the Self-Chosen type.

[DragonNighthowler]

Ok, you guys keep forgetting it is a SAGA, and THAT'S how it IS written. It was luck? So what? The fact is HE HAD IT. It was luck Eragon found the egg. It was luck Huma found the Dragonlance, and the dragon. Most of the time it is luck how things happen, but that is NOT the point. The point is HE HAD IT, thus making him special, thus allowing him to destroy evil emperor/wizard/goddess. Thus making him a CO.

 

And Crazy, I've already focused on how most, if not all CO make their choices, so you should really stop hanging onto four feeble arguments that have already been debated against your favor.

 

 

Socks has made an splendid exposition.

 

Like I personally stated earlier, it doesn't matter whether it helped him or not. It doesn't matter whether it came from inner revelation, or a great wise man taught him, or was his mother's gift.

The important fact is he had it, while nobody else had. The important fact is that made him special, so special he survived a deadly curse, so special as to speak a language only other person can speak, and so on.

You just can't ignore the fact that he has those gifts, and that makes him way too special to forget.

 

Not to mention the treatment he's been receiving along the series, as if he was a CO, all hopes were on him defeating Voldemort. That's funny, why would a normal guy receive so much attention?

 

He Chose himself? (honestly, I'm going to scream the next time you come back to this stupid argument) SURE, HE DID. SO DID ERAGON, SO DID DAVE, SO DID HUMA, SO DID 99% OF THE OTHER ONES. GEE!

Do you bother to read my arguments? Or do you systematically ignore them?

 

BTW, you're right (I'm able to admit when someone's right). Harry did not descend from Gryffindor.

 

James Potter is a descendant of Ignotus Peverell, the third of the three original owners of the Deathly Hallows, and thus so is Harry, a realisation he makes during the course of the final book.

 

Which I find particularly interesting.

 

The Peverell family is first mentioned in Half-Blood Prince as ancestors of Marvolo Gaunt, the maternal grandfather of Voldemort. In the final book of the series, they are revealed to be the original owners of the Deathly Hallows, which, according to The Tales of Beedle the Bard, they received from Death, although Dumbledore believes it is more likely that they created them themselves.

 

After Hermione saw the symbol of the Deathly Hallows on Ignotus Peverell's grave in Godric's Hollow, Harry recalled Marvolo Gaunt boasting that his ring held the Peverell coat of arms on it, thus realising that the three brothers were the Peverells. Harry deduces that he is descended from Ignotus, as the cloak is passed down through his family. Furthermore, Rowling has confirmed that Harry and Voldemort are indeed distant relatives because of their relation to the Peverells, as the majority of wizard families share common ancestry.[1]

 

Antioch Peverell was the eldest of the three Peverell brothers, and owner of the Elder Wand. He was killed in his sleep after bragging about the wand's invincibility, having won a duel with it. The murderer then stole the Elder Wand, thus initiating its bloody history.

 

Cadmus Peverell was the middle of the three Peverell Brothers, and owner of the Resurrection Stone. Using the Stone, he resurrected the girl he had once hoped to marry, who had died an untimely death. Though she had returned to the mortal world, she did not truly belong there and suffered. Driven mad by this, he killed himself to join her. The Stone was later embedded in a ring that ended up belonging to Marvolo Gaunt.

 

Ignotus Peverell was the youngest of the three Peverell brothers, described in The Tales of Beedle the Bard as 'the humblest and also the wisest of the brothers'. He was the owner of the Cloak of Invisibility, due to which, unlike his brothers, he successfully avoided dying for many years, living a full and long life, and ultimately greeted Death as a friend. Harry realises that he has Ignotus's cloak because the cloak has been passed down through many generations of his family without fading or being damaged in any way, deducing therefore that he is the descendant of Ignotus.

 

So he is actually a distant relative of Slytherin. Interesting. I fail to see how that doesn't add to being a CO.

 

On to topic. As a whole, the path we observe in the books is the path from not normality, to absolute heroism. The boy was marked from the beginning, he was born under a prophecy, thus causing him to being attacked by the evil wizard. He survived because of a special gift, receiving a scar on his forehead, some special talents, and a connection with the evil wizard that serves as a cell phone to tell him when Voldemort is on line.

Like stated a few times already, it doesn't matter whether he used parsel in battle. He HAD those gifts and that's what matters, because the books are a saga, and thus Harry is Harry in book 1 and in book 7. He's exactly the same character (independently of character growth), and thus can't be, coincidentally ignored to suit your arguments better.

 

He also has the tragic past of a typical Gary Stu. Most CO are Gary Stus, which is a further proof of it.

 

Anyways, Crazy, you should learn to swallow your pride a bit. You're hanging to silk string because you refuse to let go. You are trying to force us to leave out of boredom so you can win the argument?

I'm honestly bewildered. O_O

 

Debates don't work like that. You can't just fall into such a childish attitude to have the last word, just for the sake of your pride. I've lost debates to wiser people, and it's nothing to be ashamed off. I've learned for the next battle.

 

Saying you can't back off because you need to have the last word... really, that's not very mature.

[crazywargod]

Ok, you guys keep forgetting it is a SAGA, and THAT'S how it IS written. It was luck? So what? The fact is HE HAD IT. It was luck Eragon found the egg. It was luck Huma found the Dragonlance, and the dragon. Most of the time it is luck how things happen, but that is NOT the point. The point is HE HAD IT, thus making him special, thus allowing him to destroy evil emperor/wizard/goddess. Thus making him a CO.

 

And Crazy, I've already focused on how most, if not all CO make their choices, so you should really stop hanging onto four feeble arguments that have already been debated against your favor.

 

 

Socks has made an splendid exposition.

 

Like I personally stated earlier, it doesn't matter whether it helped him or not. It doesn't matter whether it came from inner revelation, or a great wise man taught him, or was his mother's gift.

The important fact is he had it, while nobody else had. The important fact is that made him special, so special he survived a deadly curse, so special as to speak a language only other person can speak, and so on.

You just can't ignore the fact that he has those gifts, and that makes him way too special to forget.

 

Not to mention the treatment he's been receiving along the series, as if he was a CO, all hopes were on him defeating Voldemort. That's funny, why would a normal guy receive so much attention?

 

He Chose himself? (honestly, I'm going to scream the next time you come back to this stupid argument) SURE, HE DID. SO DID ERAGON, SO DID DAVE, SO DID HUMA, SO DID 99% OF THE OTHER ONES. GEE!

Do you bother to read my arguments? Or do you systematically ignore them?

 

BTW, you're right (I'm able to admit when someone's right). Harry did not descend from Gryffindor.

 

 

 

Which I find particularly interesting.

 

 

 

So he is actually a distant relative of Slytherin. Interesting. I fail to see how that doesn't add to being a CO.

 

On to topic. As a whole, the path we observe in the books is the path from not normality, to absolute heroism. The boy was marked from the beginning, he was born under a prophecy, thus causing him to being attacked by the evil wizard. He survived because of a special gift, receiving a scar on his forehead, some special talents, and a connection with the evil wizard that serves as a cell phone to tell him when Voldemort is on line.

Like stated a few times already, it doesn't matter whether he used parsel in battle. He HAD those gifts and that's what matters, because the books are a saga, and thus Harry is Harry in book 1 and in book 7. He's exactly the same character (independently of character growth), and thus can't be, coincidentally ignored to suit your arguments better.

 

He also has the tragic past of a typical Gary Stu. Most CO are Gary Stus, which is a further proof of it.

 

Anyways, Crazy, you should learn to swallow your pride a bit. You're hanging to silk string because you refuse to let go. You are trying to force us to leave out of boredom so you can win the argument?

I'm honestly bewildered. O_O

 

Debates don't work like that. You can't just fall into such a childish attitude to have the last word, just for the sake of your pride. I've lost debates to wiser people, and it's nothing to be ashamed off. I've learned for the next battle.

 

Saying you can't back off because you need to have the last word... really, that's not very mature.

You are not understanding. Typical COs Are RELUCTANT in the "beginning". Self COs Are NOT. Path=/=Job. Harry chose both his path and his job. Whereas a typical CO like eragon was forced into the job. You think he chose to find the egg. You think he chose to have it hatch. You think he chose to be its master. No the egg did the choosing. Harry was marked in the beginning yes this is true but harry had no knowledge of the prophecy but still chose to go on an and do what he wanted to do. It wasn't until book 4 he was forced to do anything. Then after voldemorts resurection harry automatically chose to fight voldemort. He wasn't forced into it.

 

 

You say COs chose their path and this is true. They do not, however, chose their jobs. Self COs do chose their job. Harry chose his job thus making him the Self category of CO.

[DragonNighthowler]

Harry did not choose to defeat Voldemort in the first place. He didn't choose to loose his mother, become a horcrux, be marked by the dark lord, be gifted in quidditch, etc, etc, etc. He didn't even choose to become a Wizard. He could have been a squib. But he wasn't and that's the part you're not getting. You keep insisting that Harry chose, af if that meant anything at all.

 

So did Eragon. Sure, eh didn't choose to be marked by Saphira, but he chose to join the Vardens and fight Galabtoryx. He could have turned to the Dark Lord in search for more power.

 

Same could be applied to Dave, in SA. He didn't choose to be Merlin's heir, not to be a sorcerer, but he did choose to learn, when he crossed the circle.

 

All CO choose their path, whether you like it or not. Either that, or, according to your words, none of this guys are CO, and perhaps I just made that word up to have a stupid, on going argument with you, because I enjoy repeating myself over and over, and countering THAT VERY SAME ARGUMENT FOR LIKE 10 FRIGGIN TIMES ALREADY.

 

So DROP IT. You've lost. Search for a different argument, mind you?

 

The whole point, and I REPEAT, is you're missing THE BOOKS ARE WRITTEN AS THEY ARE. Harry might not have been a CO in the first book, but he became one as the story progressed.

So did Eragon.

So did Huma.

 

None of these were CO in the first chapter of the books. It's how the STORY progressed what made them CO.

It's the path they CHOSE (wow, they DO choose their path, their job, and their...).

 

What's all that nonsense about their job? Eragon is a Dragon Rider, Huma was a knight, and Harry a wizard apprentice. So what? Only Eragon didn't choose. And it doesn't really matter anyways what their job is. Even a thief can be a CO. It's NOT IMPORTANT WHAT THEIR JOB IS!

Edited September 4, 2010 by DragonNighthowler

[crazywargod]

Harry did not choose to defeat Voldemort in the first place. He didn't choose to loose his mother, become a horcrux, be marked by the dark lord, be gifted in quidditch, etc, etc, etc. He didn't even choose to become a Wizard. He could have been a squib. But he wasn't and that's the part you're not getting. You keep insisting that Harry chose, af if that meant anything at all.

 

So did Eragon. Sure, eh didn't choose to be marked by Saphira, but he chose to join the Vardens and fight Galabtoryx. He could have turned to the Dark Lord in search for more power.

 

Same could be applied to Dave, in SA. He didn't choose to be Merlin's heir, not to be a sorcerer, but he did choose to learn, when he crossed the circle.

 

All CO choose their path, whether you like it or not. Either that, or, according to your words, none of this guys are CO, and perhaps I just made that word up to have a stupid, on going argument with you, because I enjoy repeating myself over and over, and countering THAT VERY SAME ARGUMENT FOR LIKE 10 FRIGGIN TIMES ALREADY.

 

So DROP IT. You've lost. Search for a different argument, mind you?

 

The whole point, and I REPEAT, is you're missing THE BOOKS ARE WRITTEN AS THEY ARE. Harry might not have been a CO in the first book, but he became one as the story progressed.

So did Eragon.

So did Huma.

 

None of these were CO in the first chapter of the books. It's how the STORY progressed what made them CO.

It's the path they CHOSE (wow, they DO choose their path, their job, and their...).

 

What's all that nonsense about their job? Eragon is a Dragon Rider, Huma was a knight, and Harry a wizard apprentice. So what? Only Eragon didn't choose. And it doesn't really matter anyways what their job is. Even a thief can be a CO. It's NOT IMPORTANT WHAT THEIR JOB IS!

Voldy was dead, at least partially. A baby doesn't have the mental capacity to chose giving him no option in this case. He was not reluctant to be a wizard was he? No. Saying he was a baby so he didn't chose....... Sorry but no. No baby can possibly chose anything. Remember voldemort was at least half dead so there was no need of the prophecy and such. You damn well can't make the choice to kill voldemort while he is dead can you. This is what everybody thought. So until voldemort revived he didn't have to kill voldemort because he had already done it. It was book 5 that any real prophecy business was necessary and he accepted it with no hesitation. He was probably in the "nothing left to lose" mindset which helped of course in his decision but he still chose it. He chose to try to kill voldemort, the chosen one job for HP, putting him in the self category of CO. STILL a CO. The self CO sub-type is still just a sub-type of CO still in the end making him a CO.

[KageSora]

Er, you keep saying Voldy was dead... He wasn't. He wasn't truly alive, but he wasn't technically dead, either. If he was, he wouldn't have been a spirit, or he would have have been a ghost. If he was truly dead, he wouldn't have been able to come back to life. There are no means to bring back teh truly dead.

 

No, he wasn't truly alive, but he wasn't 100% dead. If he was, he would never have been able to possess Quirrel. He would just not exist or be a ghost. And even if he would have failed to get the Stone in the first book, that was just one way he could try to come back. Who's to say he wouldn't have eventually managed to possess somebody who was willing to help him come back or something?

 

There is a difference, at least in the Potterverse, between being truly dead and being in the sort of condition Voldy was...

 

 

So, I don't really get that whole part of your argument...

 

 

ETA: Also, as you said... A baby can't choose. Therefore he never chose not to be a chosen one at the time he was marked as one. :| It's a two-way argument...

Edited September 4, 2010 by KageSora

[crazywargod]

Er, you keep saying Voldy was dead... He wasn't. He wasn't truly alive, but he wasn't technically dead, either. If he was, he wouldn't have been a spirit, or he would have have been a ghost. If he was truly dead, he wouldn't have been able to come back to life. There are no means to bring back teh truly dead.

 

No, he wasn't truly alive, but he wasn't 100% dead. If he was, he would never have been able to possess Quirrel. He would just not exist or be a ghost. And even if he would have failed to get the Stone in the first book, that was just one way he could try to come back. Who's to say he wouldn't have eventually managed to possess somebody who was willing to help him come back or something?

 

There is a difference, at least in the Potterverse, between being truly dead and being in the sort of condition Voldy was...

 

 

So, I don't really get that whole part of your argument...

 

 

ETA: Also, as you said... A baby can't choose. Therefore he never chose not to be a chosen one at the time he was marked as one. :| It's a two-way argument...

He was only a soul that inhabited was split into multiple things. No he wasn't DEAD dead but he was dead. In the potterverse this is possible. The horcrux was a way to cheat death. Voldy did it 7 or 8 times, can't remember exact number. So he was a spirit and quirell LET voldemort in. I believe he was a horcrux or at least he found one. So voldemort was dead. He tried once at resurection, failed. Lucious tried once, failed. Skiped a year. Voldy tried again, success. Each failure was by a willing mr.potter and he didn't even know about the prophecy yet.

 

There is a difference between not being able to chose for age and not wanting it when you can chose.

[DragonNighthowler]

No, there isn't.

 

In SA Dave is a sorcerer because he has the gift of magic in him. He's born with it. Yet he chose to learn magic with Balthazar, and he chose to become a sorcerer (after, I believe, he chose to leave). I don't believe he was very reluctant either with the perspective of becoming a sorcerer, either that, or the script is terrible.

 

Anyways, that, I guess, is another SELF CO? I don't think there is such thing as SELF CO. It's a CO, or it isn't. End of story.

The thing that determines if a character is a CO is the progression of the WHOLE story (not just the analysis of this and that bit, that amazingly suit your argument, forgetting completely that all pieces make a whole). You can't have a CO, without a terrible bad guy that's threatening the whole world (which is always a recurrent thing for the CO, save the world). There is a story that leads from normal guy, or maybe somewhat special guy, to CO. The culmination of that story with the defeat of all evilness in the hands of the main character, and the fact the whole story has been preparing this character in various ways, making him or her a Gary Stu, special and so on, for this apotheosis, determines the character is a CO.

 

The character chooses, and never chooses at the same time. GOD does. That is, the author. The author has, in her hands, the fate of the characters. Only the author chooses their destiny. The author guides the characters into that end. And that's the whole point. Rowling made him into a CO (no self chosen or whatever lame thing you've just made up, IGNORING my arguments BTW).

 

BTW, I refuse to repeat AGAIN, for the, is it 11th time already? The same counter argument, I've been trying to stuff down your thick head.

STOP AVOIDING THE FACT THAT MOST CO CHOOSE!!!!!!

 

Frodo, is NOT a CO. He's a hero. He chose.

 

Dave is a CO. He chose.

 

Huma is a CO. He chose.

[Zovesta]

crazywargod ignored my arguments, too. =V +50, DNH.

[KageSora]

Oh, he just ignores any argument that he can't counter. :|

 

 

Anyway, on the subject of COs in general... They're overdone, yes, but that's because the formula works. You can have a well-written CO story, though it's easy to just take the formula and write an incredibly predictable and boring story. Still, even if you do that, it can turn out enjoyable... I do enjoy the HP books, personally. But like hell I'm gonna be on the obviously losing side of an argument that has an obvious answer--Harry is a CO. :|

 

I don't mind CO's, or even mild S(t)u characters. It's when things get really over-the-top S(t)u or way, way badly-written CO plot that I don't like them.

[crazywargod]

No, there isn't.

 

In SA Dave is a sorcerer because he has the gift of magic in him. He's born with it. Yet he chose to learn magic with Balthazar, and he chose to become a sorcerer (after, I believe, he chose to leave). I don't believe he was very reluctant either with the perspective of becoming a sorcerer, either that, or the script is terrible.

 

Anyways, that, I guess, is another SELF CO? I don't think there is such thing as SELF CO. It's a CO, or it isn't. End of story.

The thing that determines if a character is a CO is the progression of the WHOLE story (not just the analysis of this and that bit, that amazingly suit your argument, forgetting completely that all pieces make a whole). You can't have a CO, without a terrible bad guy that's threatening the whole world (which is always a recurrent thing for the CO, save the world). There is a story that leads from normal guy, or maybe somewhat special guy, to CO. The culmination of that story with the defeat of all evilness in the hands of the main character, and the fact the whole story has been preparing this character in various ways, making him or her a Gary Stu, special and so on, for this apotheosis, determines the character is a CO.

 

The character chooses, and never chooses at the same time. GOD does. That is, the author. The author has, in her hands, the fate of the characters. Only the author chooses their destiny. The author guides the characters into that end. And that's the whole point. Rowling made him into a CO (no self chosen or whatever lame thing you've just made up, IGNORING my arguments BTW).

 

BTW, I refuse to repeat AGAIN, for the, is it 11th time already? The same counter argument, I've been trying to stuff down your thick head.

STOP AVOIDING THE FACT THAT MOST CO CHOOSE!!!!!!

 

Frodo, is NOT a CO. He's a hero. He chose.

 

Dave is a CO. He chose.

 

Huma is a CO. He chose.

I AM NOT IGNORING ANYBODY.

 

 

That said frodo tried to pawn the ring off to gandalf hesitating. Reluctant.

 

 

Why are you people so hell bent. Even when I partially agree with you you still try to tear at me. Now because I am not fully agreeing with you you are making rather stupid claims I am ignoring you. Really calm down. People will not always agree with you. Harry is one of 3 sub-types of chosen ones I know of. The SELF sub-type. This still makes him a chosen one. It doesn't make him any less of a chosen one nor any more. If you want to just go by type you would say chosen one. If you want to label further you would say Self-Chosen. Frodo was typical hesitant when the ring was forced on him. Harry was wondering if it was really him and after a solid yes no more, he was ready. This wasn't hesitation. Nor reluctance. This is my stance. You cannot change it. Any debate to this post will be ignored as I will not be returning so I wont read them.

 

 

Carry on. I do apologise for any stress I have put you through.

[Zovesta]

Oh, he just ignores any argument that he can't counter. :|

 

 

Anyway, on the subject of COs in general... They're overdone, yes, but that's because the formula works. You can have a well-written CO story, though it's easy to just take the formula and write an incredibly predictable and boring story. Still, even if you do that, it can turn out enjoyable... I do enjoy the HP books, personally. But like hell I'm gonna be on the obviously losing side of an argument that has an obvious answer--Harry is a CO. :|

 

I don't mind CO's, or even mild S(t)u characters. It's when things get really over-the-top S(t)u or way, way badly-written CO plot that I don't like them.

The books were good, sure, I loved the books. But that's mainly because I love most of the supporting characters - I couldn't stand the "Golden Trio".

 

COs, in my opinion, are rather boring. I hate the idea that someone has to be chosen to do something great.

[crazywargod]

I apologise but question not about HP but

 

 

Are there any CO books you like and or would recomend?

[Ashes The Second]

I think your right about the 'I want to be special but I suck' movies, and wannabes...>>