No More Chosen One, PLEASE!

[DragonNighthowler]

I've just saw recently the Sorcerer's Apprentice, and while I enjoyed the movie, it left me thinking about this typical cliché.

 

In most books and movies, specially the fantasy sort, we find the figure of the Chosen One.

 

The Chosen One is basically a character, normally a Gary Stu, or Mary Sue, that exceeds in abilities to other characters, many of which are notably older and more experienced. The reason to this is that the Chosen One is always explained as the incarnation of some supreme power destined to destroy darkness and bring peace and prosperity to the world.

 

In reality, this is ok, it works for a few stories, but too much is just TOO MUCH. Specially when the Chosen One becomes a Deux Ex Machina to pop out in the last moment and save the day with skills he or she ignored he was capable of doing.

 

Example of Chosen One Syndrome can be found in;

 

Harry Potter; Harry, mentioned in a prophecy, possesses a power beyond evil which is the magic of love (eugh, isn't that sappy), and therefore in the first books, Voldemort can't touch him. His skills exceed a bit to those of stronger wizards, as he's capable of mastering patronuses, which is quiet advance, although he's in reality a rather normal wizard.

 

Eragon; Ok, whatever. He's Stu Chosen One role model. Super strong, super fast, super magician, super rider, super swordsman, etc, etc, etc.

 

The Sorcerer's Apprentice; I quiet liked the main character, but the whole ring thing was stupid, and a Deus Ex Machina to make him all-this-special.

 

Pokemon; Second Movie any? Yeah, whatever.

 

I'm not saying character shouldn't be a bit special, have some sort of special skill. I have a few special characters myself, for example, a mage who is really an archmage, in my world, a step beyond mage without making him into a god. It takes him YEARS to master his skills, and yet, while capable of some amazing prodigies, it drains him so quickly he's kept as a stable, not uber powerful character.

 

Also, why is a single person always destined to save the world? And why would it be a 17 year old teenager full of hormones, and who has had no more training than cleaning horse manure? Wouldn't it be logical if a Chosen One was actually a mature, strong, skilled man? Or if it had to take such person years to become a Chosen One?

Strategically, isn't it more logical if a whole army went to wipe out evil?

 

In LOTR, Frodo was the ringbearer due to him being pure in heart, and stronger to resist. And yet he shows many times he's still weak enough to sucumb. But there was an army behind to guard his backs! He wiped out evil, but he couldn't do it alone.

Harry could be a bit into this sort of Chosen One, had it not been for the prophecy.

 

Also, why is there always an evil which wants to destroy the world? Why? How's that logical? I mean, bad guys in real life don't persecute destroying the world just to get a laugh!

 

Anyways, debate.

More examples of Chosen Ones?

Opinions?

[DragonNighthowler]

Don't remember that. It's been ages since I read the books, but it makes sense. .

[DragonNighthowler]

Haha!! Yup, I've seen that video. BEst HISHE video ever .

 

I'm not sure about Frodo being stuish, or not. Been ten years since I read the books...

[darkangel787]

<.< >.>

..u serious?

well either way, it's definitely worth a reread...

if you can get past the dryness of the middle. It is a little dry. Tolkien is very detailed. ;3

[crazywargod]

Actually harry won for different reasons. Harry won not by his own skill but by smarts. You know the saying knowledge is power? Well it was like that.

[NixAyum]

In reality, this is ok, it works for a few stories, but too much is just TOO MUCH. Specially when the Chosen One becomes a Deux Ex Machina to pop out in the last moment and save the day with skills he or she ignored he was capable of doing.

Essentially this.

 

I stared a novel a couple years ago and there was no Chosen One, but there was prophecy and powers and all that good stuff. I had 4 main main people, and one of them did stand out more than the others though.

 

I could write a CO, I think, but I'd rather have a group hero.

 

Also, why is a single person always destined to save the world? And why would it be a 17 year old teenager full of hormones, and who has had no more training than cleaning horse manure? Wouldn't it be logical if a Chosen One was actually a mature, strong, skilled man? Or if it had to take such person years to become a Chosen One?

Strategically, isn't it more logical if a whole army went to wipe out evil?

 

I don't know why it's always just one person, maybe the "savior" idea rings deep in most people. I figure they're young because that's all they're going to do is be the hero. They're usually not normal kids and since they're so young they get the characterization while maturing with the pressure and training/learning about their power and destiny and all. And sometimes it doesn't matter if you have an army if they have no leader (ie: Chosen One), so not always.

[DragonNighthowler]

It's not about the army. Sure, it takes a charismatic person to lead an army to glory.

 

It's about the guy going head first and completely alone against the bad guy. That'd make sense. Rome didn't grow so large simply because they had a caesar. It was team work.

[lightbird]

I think that Chosen Ones are way too overdone.

 

However, does having a character who could have been kind-of a Chosen One but isn't by an act of choice make it a clichee? D:

 

I'm not sure about Frodo being stuish, or not. Been ten years since I read the books...

 

Same. While he is "pure at heart" etc., you can't ignore the fact that LoTR was written before much of the other fantasy/sci-fi stories that feature a stu-ish person who saves the day non-stop.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2010 by lightbird

[Fortune86]

Harry wasn't that much more powerful than wizards his age. Yes, he could summon a patronus, but don't forget he had to attend several after school sessions just to produce the mist form. It was only when his life was on the line and after he had already seen that he could do it that he managed the Stag.

 

He was also an above average seeker, but that in truth was his only natural skill. Plus his father was also a good seeker, so maybe there was something in the genes.

 

As Dumbledore explained in the final book, his wand was only powerful against Voldemort because it had identified him as an enemy.

 

Don't get me started on LOTR. If Elrond had just kicked Isildur into the damn volcano when he refused to destroy the ring then it would have finished there.

[Elleth]

Frodo only qualifies as a Chosen One insofar that the prophecy Faramir and Boromir received obliquely mentions a Ring and a Halfling:

 

"In that dream I thought the eastern sky grew dark and there was a growing thunder, but in the West a pale light lingered, and out of it I heard a voice, remote but clear, crying:

 

Seek for the Sword that was broken:

In Imladris it dwells;

There shall be counsels taken

Stronger than Morgul-spells.

There shall be shown a token

That Doom is near at hand,

For Isildur's Bane shall waken,

And the Halfling forth shall stand."

 

A lot of his power stems from the fact that he chose (himself) to destroy the Ring, and he still ultimately failed in finishing it without help, so I find him a lot more tolerable than Eragon or Anakin Skywalker, who are the more obvious Chosen category.

 

As to the popularity of this figure, I dare say in most 'western' literature it's quite steeped in Judaeo-Christian tradition, namely Jesus himself as the Saviour. Of course this is going to inspire imitations, especially in fantasy literature where a Christ-like figure may not occur per se, and so has a greater impact in-world, while the readers get their foreshadowing and satisfying (if they are into that) resolution to the plot.

[DragonNighthowler]

But yet, Harry was the Chosen One due to the prophecy that made him the only one able to destroy Voldemort. It would have been SOOOO much better had Harry died without fulfilling the prophecy, and someone else had to save the day for him or something. It would have given a much better message to the readers.

 

Not to mention, it takes years to master patronuses, something Harry manages in a few months. That rule is outlawed in the fifth book, where students of all ages summon patronuses here and there.

 

Frodo, I still see as a more stable character. He needs help to fulfill the quest, and even then, he's not all that special. He simply has a purer heart than a human, or even Gandalf, or the elves, but I believe that's because halflings are these innocent, child like specie.

 

As for your question, Lightbird. I wouldn't know. In my book, things happen to normal people (normal, as in how normal can a mage be ). The resolution of the plot happens because there is a group of people working for it, not because someone very special pops up suddenly and saves the day.

[Qwackie]

I hate chosen ones. D:

 

Whenever I make a character for a roleplay, I cringe whenever I see a character that's in their teens vanquishing evil. Why are all characters in their teens?

... I make all my characters 35 year old men. .__.

 

I liked Harry Potter at first, but then it was like "Um... WTF?"

The charries in LotR are kinda bland. Like, Sam's a frikin' babysitter to Frodo!

I never expected there to be rabid fangirls over it though. *eyes fangirls*

[Fortune86]

Not to mention, it takes years to master patronuses, something Harry manages in a few months.

Really? Where does it say this?

[Qwackie]

Well, when Harry was trying a patronus against that boggart, he did it on the second try. Then, a month or two later when he's in the woods and he saves himself, literally when he's with Hermione, he does a full blown patronus and wipes out 50+ dementors.

So, I guess that's a factor of his Stue-ness.

[crazywargod]

Actually it is an advanced spell but really a very corny one. ALSO in book 5 Harry taught everyone else the patronus and they learned it faster then he did.

 

 

Also harry only won due to the fact he beat malfoy, who was the elder wands owner. So Harry became the elder wands owner. When voldemort tried to kill harry with it, again, it failed. At that time voldemort essentially died of fright.

 

Plus harry broke the whole prophecy when voldemort killed him the second time. The prophecy stated one cannot live unless the other died. This does not say Harry had to kill him. It said one of them had to die. Never did it say by who's hand.

[Ruins]

Most of my OCs... They aren't Chosen. Ignatius nicks a magical emerald that's needed to save the world because it's shiny- he wants to flog it on the black market. All the others are forced into place by the only mn who had any idea what's going on- and the gods, of course. Who want to live.

[Dr. Paine]

But yet, Harry was the Chosen One due to the prophecy that made him the only one able to destroy Voldemort. It would have been SOOOO much better had Harry died without fulfilling the prophecy, and someone else had to save the day for him or something. It would have given a much better message to the readers.

 

Actually, if you'll recall, it was a rather self-fulfilling prophecy. Voldemort's insecurity and fear led to it being done, and the fact that he chose Harry was more or less coincidence. It damn well could have been Neville, or not even gone through at all.

[Qwackie]

I would've loved it if Harry died so that the pathetic fanfics about what happened after he lived would happen, and if Voldemort lived there'd probably be more books about some other chosen one killing him.

[crazywargod]

Doesn't what wargod said prove that HP didn't win against voldemort altogether because of some crazy strength the chosen one had? luck had a lot to do with it. If draco hadn't had the courage to disarm Dumbledore, he never would've taken the elder wand, and the wand would've recognized Snape as the master, and then Voldmort would have killed snape anyways, so then he would have won.

But since Draco DID do it, that changed things for Harry, didn't it? So he didn't entirely win on some crazy strength that he had, he had alittle bit of draco's help...

Kinda. What happened was dumbledore was the elder wand master. In order to use the be the elder wands master you must beat the previous master in a duel. Well snape killed dumbledore. He didn't actually beat him so the wand was masterless..........or so they thought. Malfoy had disarmed dumbledore unknowingly becoming the elder wand's master. Dumbledore buried with the elder wand. Harry sometime after beat malfoy and took his wand from him thus making harry the elder wand's master. The elder wand refuses to kill its master, harry, when voldemort tries to kill harry with it. Harry and Voldemort fire spells and harry wins but harry naver actually kills voldemort. Voldemort just kinda died after losing the duel from his own rebounding curse.

 

Harry was not the chosen one. He was the boy who lived. Voldemort only thought harry was powerful because he live. Harry never actually had any special power. Neither was he chosen by prophecy. It was all coincidence and luck. Ron or neville could have killed voldemort

[MonkeyLord]

Percy Jackson, need I say any more?

 

I would really love a book or movie where the evil guys beat the outta the good guys and that was the end.

[Qwackie]

Percy Jackson, need I say any more?

 

I would really love a book or movie where the evil guys beat the outta the good guys and that was the end.

Percy Jackson was based off the Son of Zeus, Perseus in Greek Mythology, so blegh...

He is pretty perfect, Percy Jackson was sh*t compared to Perseus. Much rather watch something like Clash of the Titans then Percy Jackson.

 

I hate how it's like no one reads a book until there's a popular movie of it, I mean, dude, come on...

[kadoatie]

Actually, if you'll recall, it was a rather self-fulfilling prophecy. Voldemort's insecurity and fear led to it being done, and the fact that he chose Harry was more or less coincidence. It damn well could have been Neville, or not even gone through at all.

QFT.

 

Anyway.. on main topic, I don't see an issue.

I honestly don't see all that many "chosen ones". It's an issue found more in YA fantasy, which most of this thread is discussing. Books from mainstream or literary demonstrate a lot less chosen ones; they're aware of the trope and often consciously avoiding it, even deconstructing the idea.

Of course the heroes are teenagers because most teenagers want to read about teenagers if they're picking up books labeled "YA". (Books put in the non-kid non-YA section have, not surprisingly, older characters.)

About why they're often Sues/Stus - it's really hard to have a character important enough to effect huge change if they're not powerful enough to blow things up. The protagonist has to drive the plot somewhere. You also don't write books about the nonimportant people in real life most of the time. There's no book about me, no one would read it, but there are books about the president because he's a central person.

 

tl;dr: read out of another section.

 

Air by Geoff Ryman is a [....]ing awesome novel (sf) whose protagonist avoids all these problems. Read it <3

Edited August 8, 2010 by kadoatie

[Thorn]

Thank you SO much!

 

I hate the whole "Chosen One" thing. When people talk about someone like that in a book or movie, it makes me cringe.

 

And often ends up putting me off the whole thing.

[DragonNighthowler]

As an avid fantasy reader, I have to encounter these sort of characters pretty often. If they're not Chosen Ones, they're directly sues, which pretty much puts me off.

 

I'd rather read about normal character, in their context of course. It's not the same being a powerful mage, destined by the Gods to do something fantastic, than being your typical mage having a load of trouble trying to leash your power.

 

Oh, I hate prophecies. So overused.

[kadoatie]

/shrugs

Do you like only epic fantasy, or quest fantasy, or sword-and-sorcery? Can't help if so, but if the whole range of fantasy is your taste, these are some of the fantasy authors I love (that don't have prophecies, ultra-Sues, etc.) - China Mieville, Diana Wynne Jones, Jeff Vandermeer.

and I try to get anyone I can to read The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe. It's somewhere on the line between sf and fantasy, and it does contain fragments of prophecy, but it's unique, it upended dozens of misconceptions I had about fantasy, and it's a total mindf[...]. Please, please read it if you haven't before.