No More Chosen One, PLEASE!

[crazywargod]

Erm... no it isn't. Eragon is a complete rip off Star Wars from page 1. The only thing that changes is the setting, which is medieval.

 

http://everything2.com/title/Comparisons+b...n+and+Star+Wars

Okay but eragon with all its rip-offs that make it up is still different.

It is the same but different.

 

Eragon=Eragon

Star wars=Star wars

Pern=Pern

Eragon=/=Star wars

Eragon=/=Pern

Star wars=/=Pern

 

 

Even if everything in eragon was a star wars rip-off, they weren't, took some from pern, changing the setting to midevil times still makes it different and individual. Like twins and the only difference is one has long hair and one has short.

 

 

Am I making sense?

[DragonNighthowler]

Hum... not much.

 

There is nothing wrong with placing a certain setting. Most of the epic fantasy is based off Tolkien's work.

 

But the plot is too similar to not be considered a clear rip off. I'm honesly surprised George Lucas hasn't sued Paolini.

[NixAyum]

Isn't Wheel of Time about CO too?

 

I never got past the first book due to lack of money, and since I began reading other things and kind of forgot about it . (ugh... 20 something books, each of them at 25 euros, was a LOT of money).

Yep. Rand has like, 50bazillion prophecies around him in 3 or 4 different cultures, basically has to unite the entire world to fight the Big Bad, and is so CO that fate itself warps either to convenience him or just because he's present. Granted, his two childhood friends do this taveren thing too, but only because he needs their help and they don't have it nearly as much.

 

And he gets 3 wives.

 

And breaks hundreds of years of taboo on male channeling. And CLEANS the male half of the source. And uses a bunch of forbidden techniques. And kills channelers with hundreds more years of experience because he's the CO and he's stronger/lucky.

 

And has the Dragon/CO from the last Age stuck in his head.

 

20something books? There's 12 out now. Going to be 14 in all.

[Fortune86]

I've always liked Captain Sisko in Deep Space Nine, because he wasn't chosen as such, but created for the role. The Prophets needed someone to do the job, so instead of picking someone who was already alive/going to be born, they built them specially for the job and then trained them.

 

Why can't we have more like this?

[crazywargod]

Hum... not much.

 

There is nothing wrong with placing a certain setting. Most of the epic fantasy is based off Tolkien's work.

 

But the plot is too similar to not be considered a clear rip off. I'm honesly surprised George Lucas hasn't sued Paolini.

He can't. The setting is different for one. The names and characters for two. The story for three (yes the story. Star wars does not have dragons and such).

 

 

Changing the sci-fi setting to midevil is a BIG change. The main characters name is not luke, was never born a prince, didn't kill his father, had a crush on the female lead it book 1.

 

 

Eragon while not original in the least is still not star wars and is different from star wars.

 

 

They are like identical twins and the only way to tell them apart is one has long hair and the other one short, one wears baggy clothes while the other tight clothes.

[kadoatie]

Notes on geopolitics:

 

@ evil overlords: Agreed, one-at-a-time frontal assault = horrible idea

 

But you can happily rule the world while destroying it. You just get to keep significant resources for yourself - like existing dictators in many countries. 100 tons of rice a year isn't going to do a country any good, but if you have 100 important people in your organization that would be fine feeding.

 

@ int'l actors: The UN and numerous other international agencies are rubber stamps for the major countries that control them (U.S., Western Europe) - for example, the Security Council have complete individual veto power over all significant UN actions. The organizations as a whole are bureaucratic, slow, indecisive. In the end they're also dependent on the individual countries/actors within them to send troops, impose sanctions, etc. I don't see why it would be difficult for the actions of a single superpower like the U.S. to undermine them.

 

@ so many countries: Half of them haven't gotten over civil wars, corruption or past imperialism in their own countries, much less be able to act internationally. If you're willing to rule with lighter control or unofficially, you can mostly get by without serious reprisal. (Yeah.. don't try to destroy the cultures, unless you're Mao Zedong and you can enforce a cult around you.)

Plus, policies like mutually assured destruction with nuclear weapons makes 90% of the countries irrelevant. Yes, there's guerrilla war and "terrorism", but several thousand people here and there is nothing compared to the aspirations of a real world dictator.

 

--

 

Why can't we have more like this?

I've always thought there were a lot of people trained from birth/childhood to do certain jobs. Royalty in half the fantasies/space operas out there, for example.. can you be more specific?

Edited September 6, 2010 by kadoatie

[Fortune86]

I've always thought there were a lot of people trained from birth/childhood to do certain jobs. Royalty in half the fantasies/space operas out there, for example.. can you be more specific?

Rather than picking someone who already exists to fufill the job that destiny or whoever wants doing, why not build/create a custom made person to do it for a change?

 

I mean it would get rid of the constant 'Why me?' question, because they only exist to carry out the task to begin with.

[DragonNighthowler]

I quiet disagree with you, Crazy. I guess this is our dynamic in the forums .

 

Rowling sued quiet a few books due to the similarities. One of them was something called Tanya Grotter and the Magic Double Bass, which was about a girl who became a witch, and went to a magic school.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanya_Grotter

 

The setting is changed, and so are the names of the characters. Yet, the plot was so similar that the book was sued. Sure, it did not cease to exist, but there were enough reasons to sue the books.

 

I believe George Lucas is either unaware of the existence of Eragon, or simply doesn't give a ....

But there are reasons to sue, maybe not the third, but at least first and second books.

 

Independently of the divergences between both stories, the plots are simply too close. The whole, orphan farmboy finds something amazing, discovers he has some special powers, meets an old crazy man who happens to be from a long lost cast of DragonRiders. Farm is burnt to ashes. Boy flees to find the resistance. Attacks the fortress were Durza is (being both, Durza and Morzan, a representation of Darth Vader), and rescue the princess (who isn't Eragon's sister for mere romantic reasons). Find the rebels, fight against them....

Second book, travels to lush green lands. Meets old hack who is the last Dragon Rider alive, and teaches Eragon to use the force.

The whole thing about the swords. Magic sword that glow in colors, thought specifically for the riders... hum. Not to mention Morzan's sword is red.

 

Then, even when we find out in the third book who Eragon's father is, I found that whole mother story to be sooo.... sudden. I mean, his mother was a bi..., and that's it. But to make Eragon feel a bit better about his blood heritage suddenly they make him Brom's son, and his mother was not so bad after all, she redeemed herself. How convenient.

 

Anyways. Without entering a debate about how... ridiculous the books are, and how Paolini likes to step on his own rules, I even found similes to the Harry Potter books. The whole Heart of Hearts reminded me much of the horcruxes.

Eragon-Aragorn?

Arya-Arwen?

Come on, Paolini, can't you be a bit more obvious?

 

It's not only the plot is fearfully similar to SW. The setting is Tolkien's with a deep lack of distance knowledge, AND horses for that matter. Not only his humongous desert has the size of Madrid (wow... Sahara any? How bout Goby?), but horses are NOT cars. You keep a horse at gallop for a whole day, you'll pretty much be without a horse the moment night hits. When I go riding my mare, I can keep her a full gallop for a few minutes, and after, she needs to rest. Horses are obstinate, resistant creatures that will drop dead if you force them to keep running, because they will keep running.

Anyways, elves in woodlands. How original. Dwarves, urgals (who are uruk hai). Only original creature are those Ra-Zac which I found interesting, and would have loved to know more about them.

 

Anyways, I don't doubt there might be some talent under all that egocentrism. He has manages something more deep and complex than the Meyer idiot. But that boy needs to get off his high horse, and learn a bit of humbleness to progress in his writings.

 

I'm not ashamed to admit he reminds me of me, when I was 15. I also thought quantity was important, and wrote large blocks of description with little substance. I also believed everything had to be described, from the single leaf tree, to how the moon glimmered over the freshly cut grass, (etc). I also wrote the most illogical characters, and made gary stus, and mary sues, and I also skipped my own world's rules when it was convenient, not applying all logic I could.

 

But I grew out of that (now I'm, perhaps, a bit too logical). Nasty words from friends helped me develop my own writing skills. Reading the masters and studying their works allowed me to see my own mistakes. My world has rules, there are magicians who are enough underpowered as to keep them from becoming gods. Dragons who are creatures based off nature itself in a most logical way. Politics are looked upon with care as to keep thing as perfect as I can achieve (and I have a sociologist and another political scientist expert in warfare and international relationships looking at my work with utmos care, the same as an scientist, a social worker, and, obviously, a linguist).

 

Paolini has proclaimed himself the reincarnation of Tolkien. His ego has been so inflated he can barely see flaws in his works, and that won't allow him to progress. He really needs to receive a bit of harsh criticism, or bother to read it, in order to progress.

 

Anyways, wow, long rant .

I'm off to get some cigars.

Edited September 24, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[lightbird]

DNH, Tanya Grotter was intended to be a HP parody. At least the first (and second?) books were, but from there on the plot grew and grew. I haven't read those but my friend used to be a nut for them (judging that we're from Latvia and get a lot of Russian books over the border), and told me that Tanya was quite good at keeping a court of men.

[DragonNighthowler]

DNH, Tanya Grotter was intended to be a HP parody. At least the first (and second?) books were, but from there on the plot grew and grew. I haven't read those but my friend used to be a nut for them (judging that we're from Latvia and get a lot of Russian books over the border), and told me that Tanya was quite good at keeping a court of men.

Being spanish, I haven't got a clue .

[crazywargod]

I quiet disagree with you, Crazy. I guess this is our dynamic in the forums .

 

Rowling sued quiet a few books due to the similarities. One of them was something called Tanya Grotter and the Magic Double Bass, which was about a girl who became a witch, and went to a magic school.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanya_Grotter

 

The setting is changed, and so are the names of the characters. Yet, the plot was so similar that the book was sued. Sure, it did not cease to exist, but there were enough reasons to sue the books.

 

I believe George Lucas is either unaware of the existence of Eragon, or simply doesn't give a s...

But there are reasons to sue, maybe not the third, but at least first and second books.

 

Independently of the divergences between both stories, the plots are simply too close. The whole, orphan farmboy finds something amazing, discovers he has some special powers, meets an old crazy man who happens to be from a long lost cast of DragonRiders. Farm is burnt to ashes. Boy flees to find the resistance. Attacks the fortress were Durza is (being both, Durza and Morzan, a representation of Darth Vader), and rescue the princess (who isn't Eragon's sister for mere romantic reasons). Find the rebels, fight against them....

Second book, travels to lush green lands. Meets old hack who is the last Dragon Rider alive, and teaches Eragon to use the force.

The whole thing about the swords. Magic sword that glow in colors, thought specifically for the riders... hum. Not to mention Morzan's sword is red.

 

Then, even when we find out in the third book who Eragon's father is, I found that whole mother story to be sooo.... sudden. I mean, his mother was a bi..., and that's it. But to make Eragon feel a bit better about his blood heritage suddenly they make him Brom's son, and his mother was not so bad after all, she redeemed herself. How convenient.

 

Anyways. Without entering a debate about how... ridiculous the books are, and how Paolini likes to step on his own rules, I even found similes to the Harry Potter books. The whole Heart of Hearts reminded me much of the horcruxes.

Eragon-Aragorn?

Arya-Arwen?

Come on, Paolini, can't you be a bit more obvious?

 

It's not only the plot is fearfully similar to SW. The setting is Tolkien's with a deep lack of distance knowledge, AND horses for that matter. Not only his humongous desert has the size of Madrid (wow... Sahara any? How bout Goby?), but horses are NOT cars. You keep a horse at gallop for a whole day, you'll pretty much be without a horse the moment night hits. When I go riding my mare, I can keep her a full gallop for a few minutes, and after, she needs to rest. Horses are obstinate, resistant creatures that will drop dead if you force them to keep running, because they will keep running.

Anyways, elves in woodlands. How original. Dwarves, urgals (who are uruk hai). Only original creature are those Ra-Zac which I found interesting, and would have loved to know more about them.

 

Anyways, I don't doubt there might be some talent under all that egocentrism. He has manages something more deep and complex than the Meyer idiot. But that boy needs to get off his high horse, and learn a bit of humbleness to progress in his writings.

 

I'm not ashamed to admit he reminds me of me, when I was 15. I also thought quantity was important, and wrote large blocks of description with little substance. I also believed everything had to be described, from the single leaf tree, to how the moon glimmered over the freshly cut grass, (etc). I also wrote the most illogical characters, and made gary stus, and mary sues, and I also skipped my own world's rules when it was convenient, not applying all logic I could.

 

But I grew out of that (now I'm, perhaps, a bit too logical). Nasty words from friends helped me develop my own writing skills. Reading the masters and studying their works allowed me to see my own mistakes. My world has rules, there are magicians who are enough underpowered as to keep them from becoming gods. Dragons who are creatures based off nature itself in a most logical way. Politics are looked upon with care as to keep thing as perfect as I can achieve (and I have a sociologist and another political scientist expert in warfare and international relationships looking at my work with utmos care, the same as an scientist, a social worker, and, obviously, a linguist).

 

Paolini has proclaimed himself the reincarnation of Tolkien. His ego has been so inflated he can barely see flaws in his works, and that won't allow him to progress. He really needs to receive a bit of harsh criticism, or bother to read it, in order to progress.

 

Anyways, wow, long rant .

I'm off to get some cigars.

That has way more resemblances to HP then eragon has with star wars. The names. For example Chuma-del-Tort...............Volan-de-Mort. A birthmark. The book was harry potter in russia. You could say eragon is star wars in midevil but between having super high tech to no tech at all is a bigger difference to the type of close space the main sleeps in.

 

just.... just AUGH!!! (to the book not you)

[lightbird]

No, Harry Potter was printed in Russia, too. Trust me on that, I live next to it.

Then one author decided to make a parody spinoff of HP, and that evolved into a whole new story somewhere along the way.

Edited September 7, 2010 by lightbird

[crazywargod]

No, Harry Potter was printed in Russia, too. Trust me on that, I live next to it.

Then one author decided to make a parody spinoff of HP, and that evolved into a whole new story somewhere along the way.

I meant the setting. Harry Potter way somewhere in britain.

[kadoatie]

Fun stuff - was listening to music today, suddenly realized why the lyrics were so familiar:

 

"Got woken in the night,

by a mystic golden light.

My head soaked in river water.

I had been dressed in a coat of armor. They called a horse out of the woodland.

"Take her there, through the desert shores."

They sang to me, "This is yours to wear. You're the chosen one, there's no turning back now.""

 

- "Horse and I" by Bat for Lashes

 

 

Rather than picking someone who already exists to fufill the job that destiny or whoever wants doing, why not build/create a custom made person to do it for a change?

 

I mean it would get rid of the constant 'Why me?' question, because they only exist to carry out the task to begin with.

Perhaps it's more common in the genres you read?

The first book that popped into my head was Dune by Frank Herbert. The protagonist's bloodline has literally been prepared for several centuries at least, and from birth he has training to survive the kind of ordeals he later goes through.

Edited September 7, 2010 by kadoatie

[Beldarius]

Hm. Well, David Eddings' Belgariad and Malloreon have Garion as the Chosen One. Though by Malloreon, his role has become more generic and his allies get a whole lot more things to do (I don't think Garion actually defeats any big villains in the Malloreon - the most he does is blow up a wall with his Will).

 

Eddings' storytelling matured quite a bit when he wrote the Elenium and Tamuli. We do have a Chosen One in the form of Sparhawk, but he doesn't actually do anything spectacular - he defeats the big villains with Bhelliom (a magic stone with a will of its own). The fighting is also spread evenly between the main characters and they all have their epic moments. Most of the characters are also completely human without any special abilities (except for Styric magic).

 

Susan Cooper's Dark Is Rising has Will Stanton - he's the seventh son of the seventh son and this is why he has special powers. But later on, it's revealed that he isn't any sort of Chosen One. Instead, the one who has to defeat the Dark is actually Bran, King Arthur's son.

 

Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain has Taran, but he is the PERFECT kind of Chosen One. He isn't perfect and it shows very early on - also, he isn't even that special. No powers to speak of, no royal or powerful lineage, he's just an assistant pig-keeper who is pulled into an adventure (and he can't even use the magical item of the series until the final book). Also, the fourth book is about Taran traveling the world in order to find himself and grow from a boy into a man.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Beldarius

[memememememememe1]

Maggie Simpson.

 

Yeah, it's a TV ep but hey, she is the 'gem child'.

[MysticTiger]

I agree that the "chosen one" is done ad nauseum and is basically a lazy writing tactic to explain why gary sue/mary sue is capable of amazing feats and/or why they have to go on this mission/quest. That said, I don't mind them, but I do feel it's lazy writing.

 

I don't have a problem when the tables are turned and the "chosen one" is actually chosen for something evil (world destroying, killing someone, stealing something, etc) and that character has to learn to fight that label they've been given. I think those kind of stories can be done rather well, although they can be done as terribly as the good "chosen one".

 

It's interesting that Eragon is often compared to Star Wars. I find it closer to The Legend of the Seeker series (books and TV series).

Edited November 25, 2013 by MysticTiger

[Twyro]

"The chosen one" was interesting with Harry Potter (although I don't think that he is so much of a chosen one than just a bit more resistant to Voldemort because of his mother's sacrifice), but other writers do a lousy job with such storyline. I think it's an overused cliché and that everything written that way just isn't so interesting and complex.

[MessengerDragon]

Also, why is there always an evil which wants to destroy the world? Why? How's that logical? I mean, bad guys in real life don't persecute destroying the world just to get a laugh!

In Artemis Fowl and the Arctic Incident, at one point Opal Koboi's thoughts were,

Not too much torching, she hoped. She didn't wish to be queen of a war zone.

She was the only one I can remember who was this logical about it.

 

((I'm not sure if that's exact wording though because I can't find the book.))

[DragonNighthowler]

In Artemis Fowl and the Arctic Incident, at one point Opal Koboi's thoughts were,

She was the only one I can remember who was this logical about it.

 

((I'm not sure if that's exact wording though because I can't find the book.))

Read those books quiet a while ago. Used to love them, so I don't exactly remember why Opal wanted to conquer the world. But that sentence is a very intelligent remark.