Infertile Eggs

[Gyps13]

I say to stop the huge amount of dragons that have like ten generations of inbreed. Make a dragon that is inbreed infertile. It seems most people don't like inbreed dragons so to stop people from inbreeding make inbreeds infertile. Even if they are only 1 generation of inbreed make them fertile.

Not everybody dislikes inbreds. There have been suggestions to stop inbreeding before, and they were mostly turned down, so I don't see this version being any different.

 

/end slightly off-topic

[Renorei]

It's not so much that I dislike magical freezing, as that I like the idea of having something non-magical, just as a change of pace. I was just saying that it doesn't seem silly to me because it's really the most realistic option. If most things in the game were based on reality, and somebody came up with the idea that we could magically make eggs without embryos inside to keep, then I might agree that it was silly. As it is, though, I just think "How can it be silly? It would be one of the most realistic parts of the game!"

 

And a few pages back, somebody posted the idea that all-male holiday breeds could have infertile matings during their seasons, and unbreedables could make replicas of their respective eggs. That would actually make it more possible for me to get Sweetling and Yulebuck eggs, because I already have two of each, so I would have to release one of them if I wanted to be able to get an egg to freeze. Since infertile eggs would presumably not count towards the ratios, I would assume we'd be able to "breed" them even when we already have two of the actual dragons (which will be an issue for a lot of people, I'm sure.)

My priority is not which option is the most "realistic", but rather, which option is the most "consistent." In that vein, I find the idea of infertile eggs to be silly, because it's the most inconsistent option in view of how the game currently is. Freezing eggs is highly consistent. Reassembling eggshells is not as consistent, but doesn't feel as inconsistent to me as the idea of an infertile egg.

[bionelly]

My priority is not which option is the most "realistic", but rather, which option is the most "consistent." In that vein, I find the idea of infertile eggs to be silly, because it's the most inconsistent option in view of how the game currently is. Freezing eggs is highly consistent. Reassembling eggshells is not as consistent, but doesn't feel as inconsistent to me as the idea of an infertile egg.

Eh, I guess, although it would be consistent with breeding. I can understand you wanting consistency, your first post just seemed like you were saying you disliked it because you thought the people who wanted it were silly, not because you thought it was inconsistent. If you dislike it because you think it's inconsistent, I don't think either of us is going to convince the other, though, so I think we should just agree to disagree.

[Renorei]

Eh, I guess, although it would be consistent with breeding. I can understand you wanting consistency, your first post just seemed like you were saying you disliked it because you thought the people who wanted it were silly, not because you thought it was inconsistent. If you dislike it because you think it's inconsistent, I don't think either of us is going to convince the other, though, so I think we should just agree to disagree.

Well, I never felt that the people wanting this were silly, but I did feel that it was silly because it was inconsistent. I should have just used "inconsistent" to begin with, but at the time I couldn't figure out exactly why the idea rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Anyway, agreeing to disagree is fine with me. I'm sure TJ will provide us with a means to collect eggs at some point.

[21Phoenix]

Let me make one thing quite clear. It is impossible to kill an infertile egg as it was never alive to begin with. Blowing out an infertile egg is like (I'm at a loss and can't even think of a comparison) letting water out of a water balloon. So to all of the people who are saying infertile eggs are dumb because blowing them out kills the embryo might want to actually read the thread or at least the posts made by myself to get a clear understanding of the suggestion.

 

As it now stands infertile eggs will result from a GSA available to all females and male holiday unbreedables (after breeding the male with a female for holidays only as males don't lay eggs). These eggs are not going to result from a breeding attempt (unless someone higher up prefers that idea I supposed). - Although as stated infertile eggs resulting from breeding would not affect the ratio of viable eggs. The chance of this occurring would be shared with "The dragons don't seem very interested in one another" and "The dragons breed but don't produce an egg" as illustrated here:

 

Egg-laying animals routinely lay eggs that are not viable. Obviously chickens, but also ducks, guineas, quail, and even cage birds like cockatiels have been reported to lay eggs without a male present. It is perfectly natural. In addition external factors can affect fertility. In certain breeds of chicken things like excessive feathering and rumpless birds have a hard time successfully consummating the actual act of fertilization. Things like heat effects fertility in egg laying species, but also in mammals like cows. Fertility significantly drops in the summer months because males are not able to produce as many viable sperm.

 

My original idea was not meant to affect the AP at all. This is an alternative to freezing eggs that accomplishes the same thing. Collection of egg sprites. We have four possible outcomes when breeding dragons.

 

1. Egg/s produced

2. Bred but no egg produced

3. No interest

4. Refusal

 

Why not have the fifth be infertile egg? It could be split in half with option 2 or 3. That way successful clutches aren't affected at all.

 

So if the percentages were something like this:

 

1. Egg/s produced - 35%

2. Bred but no egg produced -35%

3. No interest - 20 %

4. Refusal - 10%

 

The new options would play out along these lines:

 

1. Egg/s produced - 35%

2. Bred but no egg produced - 17.5%

3. Bred but produced an infertile egg - 17.5%

4. No interest - 20 %

5. Refusal - 10%

 

Eggs produced is not affected.

 

The egg would be immediately recognized as non viable, not containing a hatchling, whatever. The message could read something like "The dragons breed to produce an egg. After candling you realize the egg is infertile. Do you want to blow the egg out and keep the shell as a keepsake?" It could give you a "Yes"/"No" option. It would require password entry to be sure. If you clicked "No" a message like "Are you sure you just want to throw the egg away?" could come up.

 

Tossing it would not dump it into the AP. The tossed eggs would be unable to be gotten much like dragons released into the Wilderness are no longer attainable. However there would not be a page showing them. They would just cease to exist.

 

Infertile eggs would not require codes as they do not need to be posted on fansites for views. Views and clicks would not need to be tallied. They don't matter and serve no function for eggs. I don't see trading being necessary. If you have an adult with my original idea you should be able to get an egg eventually. I also feel lineages would be unnecessary. After all the egg is just a keepsake now.

 

Simple is better. There is no need to make things more complicated than they really are.

 

Also to rendering inbred dragons infertile - no. Just no. This is forcing people to play the game your way. Infertile eggs is not.

 

And there have been several suggestions for an unbreedable's eggs to be obtained.

 

Unbreedables:

 

- Chickens and Vampires would be able to lay an infertile egg.

 

- Cheeses and Paper dragons would "create" an egg from cheese or paper that without an enchantment will never hatch.

 

- Dinos - I am not sure on. My last question about them was never answered.

 

QUOTE

Do they have genders? (I don't know. I don't currently have any.) If so females could lay infertile eggs like the proposed vampire theory. If not I'm not sure...

 

 

Holidays

 

- Female Holiday dragons could produce an infertile egg for the first week of the month their holiday falls in.

 

- Males would be able to breed for the first week and have their partner/mate produce the infertile egg.

 

Facts about the proposed theory:

 

- If the infertile eggs resulted from breeding they would not affect the rate at which females layed a viable egg. This option would be equally split with "The dragons breed but do not produce an egg.".

 

- Infertile eggs do not require codes, views, clicks, nor can they be traded as they do not have codes. They do not affect the ratio of dragons currently in the Cave or Wild. They are simply an ornament, decoration, or keepsake for the collector.

 

I will be updating the first post with the new and improved theories...

[Gyps13]

Let me make one thing quite clear. It is impossible to kill an infertile egg as it was never alive to begin with. Blowing out an infertile egg is like (I'm at a loss and can't even think of a comparison) letting water out of a water balloon. So to all of the people who are saying infertile eggs are dumb because blowing them out kills the embryo might want to actually read the thread or at least the posts made by myself to get a clear understanding of the suggestion.

 

As it now stands infertile eggs will result from a GSA available to all females and male holiday unbreedables (after breeding the male with a female for holidays only as males don't lay eggs). These eggs are not going to result from a breeding attempt (unless someone higher up prefers that idea I supposed). - Although as stated infertile eggs resulting from breeding would not affect the ratio of viable eggs. The chance of this occurring would be shared with "The dragons don't seem very interested in one another" and "The dragons breed but don't produce an egg" as illustrated here:

 

 

 

Also to rendering inbred dragons infertile - no. Just no. This is forcing people to play the game your way. Infertile eggs is not.

 

And there have been several suggestions for an unbreedable's eggs to be obtained.

 

 

 

I will be updating the first post with the new and improved theories...

Nicely worded.

 

I like that you split the chance of an infertile coming from the "Bred, No Egg" message, rather than messing with the other chances. "Bred, No Egg" wouldn't give you anything anyway. By splitting that particular message in half, you at least have the chance to get something, even if it isn't a viable specimen.

 

One question I have, or something to think about. I agree that the egg shouldn't have any sort of code, or anything like that, since it doesn't require views. However, would they be clickable, showing a lineage link, and such? The reason I ask is for those viewing our scrolls, perhaps they are new, and want to see what dragon that egg came from. Is there a way we can show them off, without a code?

 

Alternately, could we have something in place like this Egg Hunting Game has? A link to, say a "shelf" (not sure what else would work). You click the link, and it takes you to a page that displays all of your collected eggs. That way, the eggs wouldn't take up excess (loading) space on your scroll.

 

Just some thoughts.

[21Phoenix]

I'm not really sure about being able to show the infertile egg's lineage. it would be nice, but I'm not sure it could be coded without codes.

 

The egg hunting idea is probable too although it seems to be making the site lag for me...

 

And your mention of a shelf reminded me of this I posted earlier:

 

How many eggs would you be able to collect? I would think one or two. No more. It could be a simple reason like, "You would have to build more shelves and display cases to house any more eggs and you are too lazy."

[Gyps13]

I would think a limit of 1 egg per breed would be reasonable, wouldn't it? Or possibly 2, for the breeds (on the Completed List) that have more than 1 egg.

 

And is it the hunt making things lag? I haven't noticed anything on my end, which is a first. lol

 

EDIT: And I spoke too soon. Can't connect to the Cave.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Gyps13

[bionelly]

I would think a limit of 1 egg per breed would be reasonable, wouldn't it? Or possibly 2, for the breeds (on the Completed List) that have more than 1 egg.

If it must be limited, I would hope we'd be able to get at least one of each egg sprite. Otherwise, there wouldn't be much point as far as I'm concerned.

[crazywargod]

Not everybody dislikes inbreds. There have been suggestions to stop inbreeding before, and they were mostly turned down, so I don't see this version being any different.

 

/end slightly off-topic

I realize this. I myself have no problem with an inbreed dragon. My problem is the fact that MOST, I say this again as last time I also said MOST not all, people do not like inbreed dragons so they use them for experiments which I think are very cruel. I was just proposing to end that discrimination against inbred eggs by not being able to make them. I find mine to be different. Those others probably said something about it being morally wrong. I just want to stop the discrimination against them. The only way I can think of accomplishing this is to stop inbreeding completely. So please do not quote me again if you are just going to flame me. Yes saying I was just like everybody else was a flame. If you need any proof to my being OK with inbreeds look at my scroll. My bluna, male split, canopy, vine are all inbreed in some way. Now I apologize to this thread for his comments and mine. I will not be posting back here out of my reason for infertility being old.*walks off thoroughly mad and insulted*

Edited April 6, 2010 by crazywargod

[crazywargod]

Let me make one thing quite clear. It is impossible to kill an infertile egg as it was never alive to begin with. Blowing out an infertile egg is like (I'm at a loss and can't even think of a comparison) letting water out of a water balloon. So to all of the people who are saying infertile eggs are dumb because blowing them out kills the embryo might want to actually read the thread or at least the posts made by myself to get a clear understanding of the suggestion.

 

As it now stands infertile eggs will result from a GSA available to all females and male holiday unbreedables (after breeding the male with a female for holidays only as males don't lay eggs). These eggs are not going to result from a breeding attempt (unless someone higher up prefers that idea I supposed). - Although as stated infertile eggs resulting from breeding would not affect the ratio of viable eggs. The chance of this occurring would be shared with "The dragons don't seem very interested in one another" and "The dragons breed but don't produce an egg" as illustrated here:

 

 

 

Also to rendering inbred dragons infertile - no. Just no. This is forcing people to play the game your way. Infertile eggs is not.

 

And there have been several suggestions for an unbreedable's eggs to be obtained.

 

 

 

I will be updating the first post with the new and improved theories...

ONCE AGAIN UGH HOW ABOUT KNOWING THE PERSON BEFORE YOU INSULT THEIR INTEGRITY. YOU CAN AT LEAST FIND OUT WHAT MY MOTIVES ARE. I SAID TO MAKE THEM INFERTILE. MAN YOU ARE STUCK UP. I say once again I will not be back to this thread and for you not to post me or contact me again in any way. I do not take kindly to being insulted as you have insulted me.

[21Phoenix]

Off-topic:

 

I'm sorry that you feel people were attacking you. We were merely stating a fact. Rendering inbred dragons infertile has been brought up and shot down numerous times regardless for the motive behind it. The reason stated among others was that it forced people to play the game a particular way.

 

Also you could have just addressed both of us in the same post. It isn't like you posted in between us and yelling was really unnecessary but whatever...

 

Not exactly sure what you meant by 'not contacting you' but I won't be pm-ing you if that's what you mean.

 

On-topic:

 

The only reason I proposed a limit was just so things didn't get out of hand and you wouldn't need something like codes for all the different eggs.

[bionelly]

On-topic:

 

The only reason I proposed a limit was just so things didn't get out of hand and you wouldn't need something like codes for all the different eggs.

Eh, I think if the eggs didn't count towards the ratios it would be pretty hard for it to get out of hand in any meaningful way (I mean, who cares how many infertile gold eggs somebody has if it doesn't affect the number of fertile golds, right? ) As far as codes go, I don't know enough about computer-y things to know for sure, but I would think that if the site was able to keep track of which eggs we had for the egg hunt without any codes, it would be able to do the same for infertile eggs, and I don't see how that would be affected by how many you have (if somebody with more knowledge knows better, please correct me; I'm just going by what seems logical based on what we've seen from the site so far.) However, I have a feeling that without codes, you wouldn't be able to click on them or see lineages. That's not really that important to me, but if other people really want to be able to do that, then the eggs might have to have codes (and before anybody tries to use that as an argument against this suggestion, frozen and reassembled eggs would have the same issue.)

[21Phoenix]

Wow...this got pushed back pretty far.

 

Bump...

[Coronaviridae]

All right, so. It has been my understanding that people have long desired frozen eggs on their scrolls, in large part because the egg sprites are really pretty and it would complete their sets of dragons. However, it's very hard to propose an egg-freezing BSA without coming up against the issue of how freezing an egg doesn't kill the baby dragon inside.

 

So here's my thought: Egg-laying animals frequently lay unfertilized eggs that never develop, for whatever reason. What if one of the breeding "failure" options produced an infertile (frozen) egg to add to our collections?

 

This would not be an additional chance to fail at breeding a pair of dragons. It would just, say, chop the chance for you to get "The dragons breed but no egg is produced" in half, so you now have a chance to get "The dragons breed but the egg is infertile; you add it to your egg collection" instead of "no egg is produced".

 

I am proposing the idea of an egg collection--i.e., a badge that people can click on on our scrolls to see which frozen eggs we've managed to collect, and how many of each species--because that overcomes the logistical problem of having to assign codes to frozen eggs. I know people would rather have frozen eggs displayed on their scrolls, but with the rate at which breeding failures occur, there's no point in flooding the system with tracking data for eggs that will never even mature as far as the frozen hatchling state.

 

PROBLEMS WITH THIS:

1. There's still no way to get frozen unbreedable eggs. It might be possible to introduce a way to collect them from events, though. There could also be another option introduced for Bite and Summon fails that give frozen Vampire and GoN eggs as consolation prizes.

2. Will this cause more breeding to occur, and is that an actual problem? I am not sure.

3. Frozen eggs are untradeable. Not sure if this is actually a problem; people may want to be able to transfer them around to complete their collections--but again this comes up against the idea that it would cause massive systemic bloat if they were assigned codes.

 

Thoughts?

[xeyla]

I support the badge idea. I would love to collect some eggs, but I would not want them to be on my scroll page. This will also help with the "useless" codes thing too.

[~!~]

Maybe it could be like the Easter Egg Hunt, where you just find unbreedable eggs lying around the cave?

[Coronaviridae]

Maybe it could be like the Easter Egg Hunt, where you just find unbreedable eggs lying around the cave?

I like that thought. In fact I'd go so far as to say couple it to picking up/being traded an unbreedable egg--not that your unbreedable you just caught is infertile (because that would be awful), but you "also find" an infertile copy of that egg as a bonus.

 

Granted a lot of people aren't going to be able to catch them, so also let it be a random action when you're just clicking around, but I think it would be fun if it's also coupled to acquiring those eggs.

[MisunderstoodDreamer]

Maybe it could be like the Easter Egg Hunt, where you just find unbreedable eggs lying around the cave?

I already proposed it here about a month ago

The idea of having an Egg catch during the next DC's birthday is really cute and significant for me :3

 

There are a lot of threads about this matter, maybe merging them would be useful for not scattering good ideas around; btw, I just saw in the Freezing Eggs thread this interesting post

 

This is ONLY in reply to the original thread post:

 

1.  TJ stated in 2008 that the coding for egg freezing was done (or nearly done) and would be implemented "soon."  The suggestion threads before and since are all long gone, as is the news thread where TJ stated this.

 

2.  My understanding of the ratios is that a dragon "doesn't count" until it has hatched?  If this is so, then freezing eggs, unlike freezing hatchlings, would have no effect on the ratios whatsoever, though obviously the ratios would still affect the availability of the eggs.

 

This means that TJ could already have a defined project about freezing eggs, but he still hasn't released it (maybe because he has still doubts about it?).

[Obscure_Trash]

I already proposed it here about a month ago

The idea of having an Egg catch during the next DC's birthday is really cute and significant for me :3

Raindear (IIRC) actually suggested that quite a while before this, but the topic seems to have disappeared. I don't remember merging it with another or deleting it, but maybe I'm going senile, as I cannot find it. Dx

[MisunderstoodDreamer]

Raindear (IIRC) actually suggested that quite a while before this, but the topic seems to have disappeared. I don't remember merging it with another or deleting it, but maybe I'm going senile, as I cannot find it. Dx

Thank you Socky! Great minds think alike

 

I have to say that I don't like too much the breeding option. What if a dragon breed a infertile egg that we already have? We'll have to dump it in a separate AP? Will they have a marker that show them as infertile, so people can't trade fake metallics that will never hatch? A collection option surely solves a lot of problems.

 

Do you have news about the post I quoted? Do you think that TJ is still deciding about what to do?

Edited November 11, 2011 by MisunderstoodDreamer

[Harley Quinn hyenaholic]

I will never see what people's problem is with having a simple "Freeze" option for eggs.

 

"OOOOH, it's KILLING the EGGS!"

 

It's a collection of PIXELS. And it's still the choice of the individual.

[Fengari]

I voted 'other' because neither one of the other options accounts for eggs from unbreedables...

[Coronaviridae]

I have to say that I don't like too much the breeding option. What if a dragon breed a infertile egg that we already have? We'll have to dump it in a separate AP? Will they have a marker that show them as infertile, so people can't trade fake metallics that will never hatch? A collection option surely solves a lot of problems.

Well, if we go from what I proposed, you only own your own eggs--they're never be dumped to the AP and immediately go to the badge on your scroll. No code is ever assigned them so there's no risk of infertile eggs being traded for fertile eggs or hatchlings.

 

I will never see what people's problem is with having a simple "Freeze" option for eggs.

 

"OOOOH, it's KILLING the EGGS!"

 

It's a collection of PIXELS. And it's still the choice of the individual.

AFAIK this has been a top-down objection from TJ to avoid suggestions that kill eggs when it comes to freezing them. So it's not without warrant that people are concerned about avoiding that. I personally don't care.

 

I voted 'other' because neither one of the other options accounts for eggs from unbreedables...

Read the last page. My original post was a separate topic that got merged on; Nin proposed an excellent alternative for finding unbreedable eggs, and the OP of the thread had several suggestions on how unbreedable eggs could be acquired.

 

 

Personally and likely due to bias I think this is more workable than egg freezing; it at least gives a "consolation prize" for a breeding failure and adds a little more spice to hunting around in the Cave (infertile unbreedable eggs to add to your collection).

[Syrup]

It would be cool if we got to decorate them! Like a collection of never rotting easter eggs