Infertile Eggs

[Geobreeder]

I honestly don't understand what's wrong with just regular old freezing. Why make it so dang complicated?

 

All of the complaints Geo keeps bringing up can be solved fairly easily by putting a limit on freezing eggs just like there is on freezing hatchlings, and maybe not allowing freezing until after 5 hours, just like the CB-abandon limit. That will take care of any fear of people mass-freezing CB eggs just to get at the rares.

 

And I'm sure there will be more complaints, but tweaking limits and stuff can take care of those easily. I don't understand why this has to be so hard. We have a very simple "freeze this hatchling" option, why can't we have the same for eggs?

Aye, but you forget there are members here who would love to have unlimited kills just to clear out the AP.

 

I don't want life for those members made easy, because a lot of my eggs come from the AP. And I like to see some sort of choice of eggs, especially when I'm hunting one type over others.

[n00biito]

We wouldn't have all the above dilemma if it was implemented as I suggested it. The only thing they's be bale to freeze are eggs they bred themselves.

[Snathaid_Mhor]

As an inexperienced member, looking at it from an ignorant point of view, I think it may be a subject that could be decided by newcomers as all the ins and outs get unnecessarily complicated the more experienced someone is.

 

E.G a carpet fitter being in the business for 40 odd years will do a description including minor details like tucking in and trimming frayed edges as standard whereas a newbie will get straight to the point and say install the carpet so it looks good.

 

Personally I think that unfertilised eggs produced from a female who hasn't mated is fine is fine. As with chickens exampled above. Let's face it, human females do it every month themselves. For it not to happen could be construed some people as not natural

[n00biito]

You don't have to be a newbie to see the simplicity of things.... but carry on

[21Phoenix]

First of all some people are taking my original idea and running amok making it much more complicated.

 

Egg-laying animals routinely lay eggs that are not viable. Obviously chickens, but also ducks, guineas, quail, and even cage birds like cockatiels have been reported to lay eggs without a male present. It is perfectly natural. In addition external factors can affect fertility. In certain breeds of chicken things like excessive feathering and rumpless birds have a hard time successfully consummating the actual act of fertilization. Things like heat effects fertility in egg laying species, but also in mammals like cows. Fertility significantly drops in the summer months because males are not able to produce as many viable sperm.

 

My original idea was not meant to affect the AP at all. This is an alternative to freezing eggs that accomplishes the same thing. Collection of egg sprites. We have four possible outcomes when breeding dragons.

 

1. Egg/s produced

2. Bred but no egg produced

3. No interest

4. Refusal

 

Why not have the fifth be infertile egg? It could be split in half with option 2 or 3. That way successful clutches aren't affected at all.

 

The egg would be immediately recognized as non viable, not containing a hatchling, whatever. The message could read something like "The dragons breed to produce an egg. After candling you realize the egg is infertile. Do you want to blow the egg out and keep the shell as a keepsake?" It could give you a "Yes"/"No" option. It would require password entry to be sure. If you clicked "No" a message like "Are you sure you just want to throw the egg away?" could come up.

 

Tossing it would not dump it into the AP. The tossed eggs would be unable to be gotten much like dragons released into the Wilderness are no longer attainable. However there would not be a page showing them. They would just cease to exist.

 

Infertile eggs would not require codes as they do not need to be posted on fansites for views. Views and clicks would not need to be tallied. They don't matter and serve no function for eggs. I don't see trading being necessary. If you have an adult with my original idea you should be able to get an egg eventually. I also feel lineages would be unnecessary. After all the egg is just a keepsake now.

 

Simple is better. There is no need to make things more complicated than they really are.

 

I do see a problem with unbreedables as theoretically you would be unable to collect eggs. However I like the idea stated earlier.

 

Maybe they're just infertile, but well able to give you unfertilized eggs? Even the paper dragon, genderless as it is, could organize some paper and fold a new, but un-animated (= fake) egg.

 

This makes perfect sense and could work for cheese dragons as well. They could find a piece of cheese and mold it into an egg. Without the right enchantment the egg would never become fertile and hatch. I believe both of those dragons states an enchantment is what made them correct?

 

Obviously Holiday dragons present more of a problem, but perhaps they could begin to lay eggs on the first of the month their holiday is in and continue for a week so if you aren't on the first you don't have to wait another year. I don't know, holidays would definitely require some thought.

 

Vampires I'm not sure on either...perhaps they could bite an egg and the egg turn but be infertile, or they could lay an infertile one themselves. Perhaps that explains the Bite BSA. They can't produce their own offspring as eggs are infertile so they bite.

 

Dinos would require a little thought as well. Do they have genders? (I don't know. I don't currently have any.) If so females could lay infertile eggs like the proposed vampire theory. If not I'm not sure...

 

Chickens obviously could lay infertile eggs on their own.

 

As far as male only breeds...perhaps when bred with a female she could for the first week of the month's holiday produce infertile eggs.

 

By the way...

 

I should not post so late at night. It is spelled Infertile...lol If possible could a mod edit the title to the correct spelling?

 

Never mind. I figured out I could do it by myself.

Edited January 20, 2010 by 21Phoenix

[Xxandes]

I like your idea in general.. but it would definitely get annoying in certain situations.

[n00biito]

First of all some people are taking my original idea and running amok making it much more complicated.

 

Egg-laying animals routinely lay eggs that are not viable. Obviously chickens, but also ducks, guineas, quail, and even cage birds like cockatiels have been reported to lay eggs without a male present. It is perfectly natural. In addition external factors can affect fertility. In certain breeds of chicken things like excessive feathering and rumpless birds have a hard time successfully consummating the actual act of fertilization. Things like heat effects fertility in egg laying species, but also in mammals like cows. Fertility significantly drops in the summer months because males are not able to produce as many viable sperm.

 

My original idea was not meant to affect the AP at all. This is an alternative to freezing eggs that accomplishes the same thing. Collection of egg sprites. We have four possible outcomes when breeding dragons.

 

1. Egg/s produced

2. Bred but no egg produced

3. No interest

4. Refusal

 

Why not have the fifth be infertile egg? It could be split in half with option 2 or 3. That way successful clutches aren't affected at all.

 

The egg would be immediately recognized as non viable, not containing a hatchling, whatever. The message could read something like "The dragons breed to produce an egg. After candling you realize the egg is infertile. Do you want to blow the egg out and keep the shell as a keepsake?" It could give you a "Yes"/"No" option. It would require password entry to be sure. If you clicked "No" a message like "Are you sure you just want to throw the egg away?" could come up.

 

Tossing it would not dump it into the AP. The tossed eggs would be unable to be gotten much like dragons released into the Wilderness are no longer attainable. However there would not be a page showing them. They would just cease to exist.

 

Infertile eggs would not require codes as they do not need to be posted on fansites for views. Views and clicks would not need to be tallied. They don't matter and serve no function for eggs. I don't see trading being necessary. If you have an adult with my original idea you should be able to get an egg eventually. I also feel lineages would be unnecessary. After all the egg is just a keepsake now.

 

Simple is better. There is no need to make things more complicated than they really are.

 

I do see a problem with unbreedables as theoretically you would be unable to collect eggs. However I like the idea stated earlier.

 

 

 

This makes perfect sense and could work for cheese dragons as well. They could find a piece of cheese and mold it into an egg. Without the right enchantment the egg would never become fertile and hatch. I believe both of those dragons states an enchantment is what made them correct?

 

Obviously Holiday dragons present more of a problem, but perhaps they could begin to lay eggs on the first of the month their holiday is in and continue for a week so if you aren't on the first you don't have to wait another year. I don't know, holidays would definitely require some thought.

 

Vampires I'm not sure on either...perhaps they could bite an egg and the egg turn but be infertile, or they could lay an infertile one themselves. Perhaps that explains the Bite BSA. They can't produce their own offspring as eggs are infertile so they bite.

 

Dinos would require a little thought as well. Do they have genders? (I don't know. I don't currently have any.) If so females could lay infertile eggs like the proposed vampire theory. If not I'm not sure...

 

Chickens obviously could lay infertile eggs on their own.

 

As far as male only breeds...perhaps when bred with a female she could for the first week of the month's holiday produce infertile eggs.

 

By the way...

 

I should not post so late at night. It is spelled Infertile...lol If possible could a mod edit the title to the correct spelling?

 

Never mind. I figured out I could do it by myself.

Exactly! I just rather have it not be part of the breeding process. Lately it has been difficult enough. I rather see it as a BSA for all female dragons only with a very high cool down.

 

If you read my idea, you'd see that this way only the holiday dragons would be a problem to deal it. And actually only the yulebuck to be honest cause they are male only.

[21Phoenix]

Exactly! I just rather have it not be part of the breeding process. Lately it has been difficult enough. I rather see it as a BSA for all female dragons only with a very high cool down.

 

In this case it would not be a BSA as that stands for Breed Specific Action. It would have to be a GSA - Gender Specific Action.

 

Edit: I think I would like to add a poll to this thread. Is that possible this late in the game or do I need to create one separately and have a mod merge the two topics?

Edited January 20, 2010 by 21Phoenix

[n00biito]

I would just contact a mod and ask them to add the poll for you. Though I think the option for a poll is still there?

 

It would be better for you not split the topic.

 

Edit: I only mentioned the BSA as a reference. I meant just another option for all dragons but they would have to be female. GSA sounds good though. Breeding once was GSA.

Edited January 20, 2010 by n00biito

[Sadako]

Well, we're just... also making suggestions.

 

If infertile eggs were a possible random result of normal breedings, I would be super-disappointed every time I got one. First on the breed results page I would see the little egg pop up and go 'YAY! *squeewiggle*' as I always do when I sucessfully breed an egg -even if the text above were different I would still have that reaction to the picture first. Then I would read the text or go look at its page and see it was a 'dead' egg and it would totally ruin the thrill of having bred whatever dragon I was going for, plus would 'waste' a breeding for me because I'm personally not that interested in frozen young because they can't continue whatever lineage I'm doing. It would be like a no interest or a no egg result, but instead of making me slightly disappointed it would make me briefly excited and then really sad and discouraged. In fact, because the 'frozen' egg would make me sad, I more than likely wouldn't even keep the thing, assuming there's a way to abandon or crush it.

 

Now, if I were going for a frozen egg... If there were to be such a thing as infertile eggs, I would want it to be a separate and controllable function. Farmers manipulate their hens (by keeping them away from roosters) to deliberately create infertile eggs because that's what they're going for. They don't painstakingly select the perfect mates for their chickens and breed them hoping for beautiful little prizewinning baby chickens and then discover that the eggs happen to be infertile so they might as well sell them for people to eat.

 

I don't have any idea what to suggest about male-only breeds. Maybe (under the proposed GSA system which I support in favor of the random breed result system) you just wouldn't be allowed to collect the eggs of unbreedables and male-onlys? =/

 

I can't think of any way to justify or explain a BSA that makes a normal two-parent egg infertile without running into the same problems as freezing eggs, i.e. killing fictional baby dragons makes people feel bad.

 

Hmm.

 

I would rather the only way to get frozen eggs was to get a normal egg, let it run out of time or kill it, and then perform an action on the broken shell than to have misleading dead babies mixed in with my live ones.

 

EDIT: It's not that I can't spell, really, so much as I can't type.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Sadako

[Stealthypugs]

Oh! I just got an idea while reading page 3.

 

What if, as many have suggested, it was just an option for a regular old egg? But it could be an option like "Empty the Egg." When an egg is first laid, the hatchie is completely undeveloped. So if you "Empty" the egg (this would be like the 'blow out the contents' thing which I spotted earlier) there is just a shell left that you can keep and cherish!

 

 

[F.ury]

Oh! I just got an idea while reading page 3.

 

What if, as many have suggested, it was just an option for a regular old egg? But it could be an option like "Empty the Egg." When an egg is first laid, the hatchie is completely undeveloped. So if you "Empty" the egg (this would be like the 'blow out the contents' thing which I spotted earlier) there is just a shell left that you can keep and cherish!

The problem with that is that many people are opposed to it because it is "killing" the undeveloped hatchling inside the egg. Plus, if all you had to do was empty the egg, people would collect hundreds of them and empty them all. There'd have to be a limit on how many eggs you can empty per week, sort of like the kill limit or the frozen hatchling limit.

 

On a different thought, would these frozen/empty/infertile/pieced back together shells be counted towards the total ratio for the breed? I'd think not, because they aren't alive, but if they were, I don't know that I'd be supportive of this idea. I think that'd be messing with the ratios too much.

 

Edit: I can't spell. At all.

Edited January 21, 2010 by F.ury

[Stealthypugs]

I agree that these things shouldn't do anything to the ratios. With all of these ideas there really is no dragon, just an empty shell for the most part. Its kinda like a dead dragon... Except its a special kind of dead egg instead.

[n00biito]

The problem with that is that many people are opposed to it because it is "killing" the undeveloped hatchling inside the egg. Plus, if all you had to do was empty the egg, people would collect hundreds of them and empty them all. There'd have to be a limit on how many eggs you can empty per week, sort of like the kill limit or the frozen hatchling limit.

 

On a different thought, would these frozen/empty/infertile/pieced back together shells be counted towards the total ratio for the breed? I'd think not, because they aren't alive, but if they were, I don't know that I'd be supportive of this idea. I think that'd be messing with the ratios too much.

 

Edit: I can't spell. At all.

You're mixing this up. This is about the unfirtile eggs only. The pieced back together is something totally different so you should discuss it in its own thread.

 

Freezing is also something completely different.

 

The only thing that these 3 hav ein common is that in the end you'd end up with a permanent egg on your scroll.

 

Infirtile eggs are not dragons. They wouldn't affect the ratios. There's nothing in it to kill.

 

The OP suggested for them to be bred and we should stick to this idea. Making exsisting eggs infirtile would open a whole other can of worms that freezing also has to deal with.

 

So let's try to stay as close to the original idea as possible. The OP is brilliant. Since you breed the eggs yourself it's a private matter. Since the egg isn't a dragon, you don't have to worry about codes/ratios and whatnot. Also you don't have to worry about what you're doing it, cause it may as well be a rock. It's an item not a possibility of life.

[Harley Quinn hyenaholic]

If you've had trouble breeding, wouldn't it be frustrating to have an egg finally show up and it says "Hey, this egg is infertile."

 

Besides, Vampires don't breed. They bite. But I like their eggs too.

 

Freezing is the better option. At least that way you MEAN to freeze an egg. And it's a single, simple option that doesn't leave anything out.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Harley Quinn hyenaholic

[Geobreeder]

If you've had trouble breeding, wouldn't it be frustrating to have an egg finally show up and it says "Hey, this egg is infertile."

 

Besides, Vampires don't breed. They bite. But I like their eggs too.

 

Freezing is the better option. At least that way you MEAN to freeze an egg.

Well if you've been paying attention, it would be a "female" only BAS/GSA and therefore you'd produce eggs on purpose for the thing.

 

Personally, I think Vampires should be allowed to bit the end of turning it, with a 50-50 chance of changing it or simply destroying it since its infertile and can't be sent to the AP.

[Harley Quinn hyenaholic]

What about the male-only species?

[Geobreeder]

What about the male-only species?

Yeah that and breedables are a problem. Plus I guess they still take up codes so we're still using a code from the system at the end of the day.

[21Phoenix]

Added a poll with a few options. Unfortunately it is hard to get a poll to cover everything.

 

In addition to those choices this would also have to occur:

 

Unbreedables:

 

- Chickens and Vampires would be able to lay an infertile egg.

 

- Cheeses and Paper dragons would "create" an egg from cheese or paper that without an enchantment will never hatch.

 

- Dinos - I am not sure on. My last question about them was never answered.

 

Do they have genders? (I don't know. I don't currently have any.) If so females could lay infertile eggs like the proposed vampire theory. If not I'm not sure...

 

Holidays

 

- Female Holiday dragons could produce an infertile egg for the first week of the month their holiday falls in.

 

- Males would be able to breed for the first week and have their partner/mate produce the infertile egg.

 

Facts about the proposed theory:

 

- If the infertile eggs resulted from breeding they would not affect the rate at which females layed a viable egg. This option would be equally split with "The dragons breed but do not produce an egg.".

 

So if the percentages were something like this:

 

1. Egg/s produced - 35%

2. Bred but no egg produced -35%

3. No interest - 20 %

4. Refusal - 10%

 

The new options would play out along these lines:

 

1. Egg/s produced - 35%

2. Bred but no egg produced - 17.5%

3. Bred but produced an infertile egg - 17.5%

4. No interest - 20 %

5. Refusal - 10%

 

Eggs produced is not affected.

 

- Infertile eggs do not require codes, views, clicks, nor can they be traded as they do not have codes. They do not affect the ratio of dragons currently in the Cave or Wild. They are simply an ornament, decoration, or keepsake for the collector.

 

[chickenhound]

I love the idea of infertile eggs

I would love to collect "frozen" eggs but as with hatchlings I would feel guilty freezing a regular egg

[21Phoenix]

Anyone else have any thoughts about this?

[xangaxangaty]

I'm against it. 1st how would vampires be infertilve. They bite a LIVING egg that is FERTILE. Plus if you were breeding rares it would stink if it just popped and said "Guess what, they made a egg! You have a healthy... oh wait actually its dead sorry."

[F.ury]

Personally, I like the idea of getting them from breeding and having it split with the percentage of no interest. I know some people have said they would be disappointed to think they got a live egg and instead get an egg that's infertile, but to put it plainly, would you rather get nothing at all from a breeding or get something pretty that you can collect? It might not be a live egg, but you have something instead of nothing, if that makes sense.

[Sadako]

You're mixing this up. This is about the unfirtile eggs only. The pieced back together is something totally different so you should discuss it in its own thread.

 

Freezing is also something completely different.

 

The only thing that these 3 hav ein common is that in the end you'd end up with a permanent egg on your scroll.

 

Infirtile eggs are not dragons. They wouldn't affect the ratios. There's nothing in it to kill.

 

The OP suggested for them to be bred and we should stick to this idea. Making exsisting eggs infirtile would open a whole other can of worms that freezing also has to deal with.

 

So let's try to stay as close to the original idea as possible. The OP is brilliant. Since you breed the eggs yourself it's a private matter. Since the egg isn't a dragon, you don't have to worry about codes/ratios and whatnot. Also you don't have to worry about what you're doing it, cause it may as well be a rock. It's an item not a possibility of life.

 

No, I'm not mixing things up, you just didn't read a single word I typed.

 

My point was:

 

I don't care if females would still produce the same number of fertile eggs as they did before -it would still be disappointing as hell to see a 'dead'/'frozen'/infertile egg when you expected a viable one. (I was using those three terms interchangeably, which is why you got confused)

 

I mentioned freezing live (viable two-parent) eggs and 'piecing shells back together' only to make the point that either of those would be less disappointing than a randomized result which made me think for a moment that I had suceeded, only to reveal that the egg I'd bred was useless.

 

I was not trying to hijack the thread, I was not espousing the opinion that either of those is actually the solution I would want to the frozen eggs dilemma, I was only mentioning that those methods, at least, don't MAKE ME SAD.

 

Oh and could you PLEASE learn how to spell infertile if you plan on scolding me any more?

Edited January 22, 2010 by Sadako

[chickenhound]

if you were breeding rares it would stink if it just popped and said "Guess what, they made a egg! You have a healthy... oh wait actually its dead sorry."

actully its more like oops your dragons didnt make a real egg this time but here's a free

sprite you can drool over