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2021-03-13 - Sprite Updates

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7 hours ago, High Lord November said:

 

The new Thunder suffers from an ill-defined silhouette around the horns/head/neck/back wing, and too much detail of the same colour clustered in the same area (the horns/head/neck/wing). The back horns also aren't positioned correctly for the perspective, and there's an almost triple tangent with the back of the head, the bottom horn, and the back wing. It can be fixed/edited and I hope it will be.

 

The spriting and lighting is really skilled, but it needs some more work to be clear/readable.

 

For the Lacula, I'd say the body spriting is absolutely gorgeous, but the head was significantly changed, and it has really blunt fangs for a dragon based off of a serpent.

Yes, there is much detail in one area, because the far wing, horns and neck were in that area in the old sprite. It's not ideal, but I thought this was preferable over more extensive changes.

The dragon is facing slightly away from the viewer, and we are viewing it from slightly above, so the horns do take the perspective into account.

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, High Lord November said:

 

The new Thunder suffers from an ill-defined silhouette around the horns/head/neck/back wing, and too much detail of the same colour clustered in the same area (the horns/head/neck/wing). The back horns also aren't positioned correctly for the perspective, and there's an almost triple tangent with the back of the head, the bottom horn, and the back wing. It can be fixed/edited and I hope it will be.

 

The spriting and lighting is really skilled, but it needs some more work to be clear/readable.

 

For the Lacula, I'd say the body spriting is absolutely gorgeous, but the head was significantly changed, and it has really blunt fangs for a dragon based off of a serpent.


omg someone else feels me on the Lacula head ;w; most of the rest of the changes I can appreciate (even if I kinda miss the old body shading, I know it was weird) but I preferred absolutely everything about the original head. It looked sharper and more menacing and, well, viper like. The new one gives me very little snake vibe at all with how thick the snout is.


For the Thunders I just wish the horns had been made brighter and the underlying wing darker to separate them better, even if doing so would have to be slightly inaccurate to the light source. Better to do a few lighting adjustments and look clearly defined then be lost for the sake of technical accuracy, imo. With just that and a return to the brighter yellow lightning I'd be mostly content, even if something about the old sprite still feels lost.

 

Edit: hm the more I look at the Thunder the more nostalgic I feel. I like the new sprite, but a lot of what I liked about the original seems lost. The wispy quality of the horns (honestly they always felt like tendrils more than anything), that long pulled back swan neck, the bright golden eyes and lightning... the new sprite is very sharp and cool and looks smug af and I like it, but it feels like the cockier cousin of the original mysterious storm boi rather than a direct analogue.

 

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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5 hours ago, Arionid said:

 I just don't get why a sprite released in 2019 gets priority treatment over one from 2008?

 

See, that's what worries me.  If I thought that they were only redoing the truly old ones it would be one thing (one thing I don't like, but hey, that's life), but if they are redoing 2-year old sprites, then no sprite is safe, and no dragon is off the table.

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I love the new sprites! Omgosh the Thunder is stunning now - silently hoping for a Magma and Ice update at some point~ ! 😊

 

The Magi was one of my least favourite sprites always lmao and I've been staring at it on and off since 2008, I adore it now! So cute! Lil greyhound guy!

Same with the Lacula; I collected one for completionism but I disliked them a lot; not anymore!

 

Thank you spriters for all of your hard working bringing these changes to life; they are perfect!!

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Sprite updates!

I'm going to miss the Thunder hatchies a lot, since they were one of my favourite sprites. But I think that the new adult looks very cool! My only problem is that it seems a bit darker to me for some reason, so I have to move closer to my screen to see the details better. Overall, I'm a big fan of the new Thunders.

I also liked the head of the old Lacula, but I like the rest of the new one better.

The other updates are good too, in my opinion.

Thanks TJ and spriters!

 

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Arionid said:

It's personally unpleasant to look at, can't do forums this day and age cuz even redundant opinions are a grave offense. Let me rephrase then, the sprite is bland and lacking detail. DC has an ever increasing standard for sprites yet there are some that get left behind when they need a bit of love the most. Guardians look extra bland now compared to Lacula 2.0. I just don't get why a sprite released in 2019 gets priority treatment over one from 2008?

 

There was no need to make comments like this. It's just disrespectful to both mods and the artists who worked hard to create these sprites. And you do realize both the magis and legendary trio were released in the early 2000s, right?

 

When posting on forums of any type, you have to follow general etiquette. That doesn't mean you can't share opinions, but when they're caustic like this it helps noone, only serving to derail the discussion. At least DyingLight apologized and described in detail what they found wrong with the updates. You could have said more about why you dislike the sprites and what you would do to fix them, but instead you immediately resorted to demonizing the community here and getting defensive over outright insulting hours of work someone put into creating guardians. That's on you, not anyone else.

Edited by requiesticat

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On 3/13/2021 at 8:03 PM, RainDear said:

I also believe that "updating" sprites should be artist driven, not user driven - I think that the changes should be made because the artists feel a need to improve on their own work, not because players decide to find fault with existing sprites..

I agree with this. As we can see clearly in this thread, the various players' opinion on any given sprite will never ever match completely XD

 

Regarding Stones, I think they are great canvas for other breeds' colours to pop: https://dragcave.net/lineage/n/Abajo

 

Also, I love the new Thunder hatchlings! Good thing I'm not a freezie collector or I might wreak havoc with the ratios XD

And I can actually see the HEARTS on the Sakuhana's wing now - HEARTS! I never saw them before! :lol:

I also think I need more Laculas now. And more eggslots.

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loving the update! everything is so much brighter and clearer, and the proportions are so much better!

i can finally see the wonderful tracery on the winters! and the sakuhanas! i never realized how undefined their markings were, but now i can see every one of their lovely hearts!  the thunder hatchies are so funny! they're so majestic and serious, truly awesome! the noodly, undefined nature of the old thunders definitely needed this!  and the little baby magis omg! the magis are so lovely! and the laculas! the strange black shadows that stuck to them and the strange proportions put me off them, but now i can truly appreciate these slytherin baddies and their awesome scales!!

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, Mewtie said:

Yes, there is much detail in one area, because the far wing, horns and neck were in that area in the old sprite. It's not ideal, but I thought this was preferable over more extensive changes.

The dragon is facing slightly away from the viewer, and we are viewing it from slightly above, so the horns do take the perspective into account.

It doesn't need to be a drastic change - just adding a bit of white space to define the wing elbow, and distinguish it from the neck, makes a big different imo. Lightening the horns slightly to distinguish them from the rest of the dragon also wouldn't be a huge difference. There will be some minor changes when bringing something up from a very old style up to a new one, and I think readibility should take slight priority over faithfulness, especially when considering that the original didn't show the rear horns (already a deviation from complete faithfulness, so making another slight edit for the integrity of the sprite isn't out of order). Lightening it up could/might also significant help with distinguishing the front-most horn from the back horn. Just my two cents. Thunders are one of my favorites and the spriting is absolutely gorgeous :wub: Just hope we can get something clearer around the head and wing since it's such an important and central part of the sprite. 

 

@angelicdragonpuppy

Yeah. The new body is some of the most gorgeous spriting on the site, and it makes the serpent-esque body look a lot more natural. And those wings are :wub:. The head really changed though, it has a much more bulbous snout and thicker fangs, and since the head is such an important part for dragon identity, it really changed the feel and attitude of the dragon.

Edited by High Lord November

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I love these updates so much!! The Magi and Thunders are tied as my favorites from how sleek and powerful and elegant they look; everything I could have wanted out of those particular dragons, and now to me they really embody those qualities!! Gosh I could stare at them for hours 🤩

Love the Lacula and Saku updates too. I always liked both, but now they've been nudged into LOVE territory. Everything else also looks great to me!! Thank you to the artists who have put in so much effort to polish and love these guys!!! 💕

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7 minutes ago, hazeh said:

I love these updates so much!! The Magi and Thunders are tied as my favorites from how sleek and powerful and elegant they look; everything I could have wanted out of those particular dragons, and now to me they really embody those qualities!! Gosh I could stare at them for hours 🤩

Love the Lacula and Saku updates too. I always liked both, but now they've been nudged into LOVE territory. Everything else also looks great to me!! Thank you to the artists who have put in so much effort to polish and love these guys!!! 💕

 

I flat out agree on the Thunders, they look so fierce now I love it.

 

None of these dragons got a bad sprite update, there is some nitpick things I didn't like but overall, very well done!

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, Arionid said:

 I just don't get why a sprite released in 2019 gets priority treatment over one from 2008?

 

Here's a question: would it help the sting if there was a specific date, like say 2010, before which sprite updates have to be expected and after which they will not happen?

 

I ask this because, though I personally like the updated lacula a lot, I can see two problematic issues with its release.

 

1) spriters and supporters keep saying that the site's "standards" have improved, artists' understanding of anatomy and shading have improved, and older sprites just arent up to the same quality. If that's true then how did the original lacula get approved in 2019, long after the new "standards" were in place? How did it meet them then but not meet them now?

 

2) there is a high degree of uncertainty when building lineages with sprites that could disappear at any time. I think people became resigned to the fact that no matter how much they loved them, the original sprites were going to go, and that they're taking their chances using one of the remaining original designs for anything now. But knowing that brand new breeds they pick up may be randomly recolored or reposed in 3 years is offputting. Making a lineage with a new dragon species is already a challenge because of ratios. If people don't trust a recent sprite is still going to be there in another year, they're less likely to go through that hassle.

 

It might help us process this if we knew WHY the recent sprite of the lacula was chosen for this process. Was this an anomaly, because the artist felt they never got to finish the sprite before it was submitted? Or are all new sprites in danger of being continually replaced this way, despite none of the arguments about limited color palettes and increased site standards actually have any bearing on them?

 

And again, I ask this as somebody who actually LIKES the new lacula update, mind you...

Edited by tjekan

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, random_dragon_collector said:

 

See, that's what worries me.  If I thought that they were only redoing the truly old ones it would be one thing (one thing I don't like, but hey, that's life), but if they are redoing 2-year old sprites, then no sprite is safe, and no dragon is off the table.

 

Some reasons may include: artist permissions on a breed varying, responsiveness of said permission-holder in allowing updates, spriter interest in X or Y breed, and how quickly an "improved" version can be unanimously approved. There's quite a lot of factors, which aren't all down to their age on the site.

 

Personally I think the updates are generally improvements. There are some things that are not perfect, but I'm pretty much in support. Question is whether thunder eggs are updated to match the new lightning effect as well.

Edited by Ashywolf

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46 minutes ago, tjekan said:

 

Here's a question: would it help the sting if there was a specific date, like say 2010, before which sprite updates have to be expected and after which they will not happen?

 

I ask this because, though I personally like the updated lacula a lot, I can see two problematic issues with its release.

 

1) spriters and supporters keep saying that the site's "standards" have improved, artists' understanding of anatomy and shading have improved, and older sprites just arent up to the same quality. If that's true then how did the original lacula get approved in 2019, long after the new "standards" were in place? How did it meet them then but not meet them now?

 

2) there is a high degree of uncertainty when building lineages with sprites that could disappear at any time. I think people became resigned to the fact that no matter how much they loved them, the original sprites were going to go, and that they're taking their chances using one of the remaining original designs for anything now. But knowing that brand new breeds they pick up may be randomly recolored or reposed in 3 years is offputting. Making a lineage with a new dragon species is already a challenge because of ratios. If people don't trust a recent sprite is still going to be there in another year, they're less likely to go through that hassle.

 

It might help us process this if we knew WHY the recent sprite of the lacula was chosen for this process. Was this an anomaly, because the artist felt they never got to finish the sprite before it was submitted? Or are all new sprites in danger of being continually replaced this way, despite none of the arguments about limited color palettes and increased site standards actually have any bearing on them?

 

And again, I ask this as somebody who actually LIKES the new lacula update, mind you...

 

 

This is what I was trying to say when I said that no sprite is safe, all dragons are on the table.  It's one thing to plan knowing there is a before and after for new standards and older dragons might be changed, and it's another to try to plan knowing that the site may decide to update any sprite at any time.

 

Thanks for saying it so well!

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4 hours ago, requiesticat said:

There was no need to make comments like this. It's just disrespectful to both mods and the artists who worked hard to create these sprites. And you do realize both the magis and legendary trio were released in the early 2000s, right?

 

When posting on forums of any type, you have to follow general etiquette. That doesn't mean you can't share opinions, but when they're caustic like this it helps noone, only serving to derail the discussion. At least DyingLight apologized and described in detail what they found wrong with the updates. You could have said more about why you dislike the sprites and what you would do to fix them, but instead you immediately resorted to demonizing the community here and getting defensive over outright insulting hours of work someone put into creating guardians. That's on you, not anyone else.

What? lol

 

I wasn't demonizing anything, just sharing an opinion, it's actually not on me if you disagree or dislike it. Like I said, redundant and off-handed remarks like "x is ugly" cause people to get on their high horse, and give entire holier-than-thou speeches on behalf of people they do not represent. If you want to be so sensitive and all inclusive then at least understand not everyone experienced life the same way, hence why I cannot view "ugly" as an offensive word in any context, there's no need to try and aggravate people you cannot relate with.

 

Plus you're the one attempting to derail the thread like this. I've already rephrased my dislikes into criticism, discuss that if you're going to reply.

 

And yes, I was referring to Sakuhana specifically. That's great that Magi and Thunder got polished, yet old:modern sprite ratio here is still 2:3. Snow and Sakuhana did not need the mild reworks and even Lacula 1.0 was fine with current DC standard. Again, I'll ask rhetorically, why put more work into sprites already inline with DC standards over the ones that arguably need more attention?

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12 hours ago, Arionid said:

It's personally unpleasant to look at, can't do forums this day and age cuz even redundant opinions are a grave offense. Let me rephrase then, the sprite is bland and lacking detail. DC has an ever increasing standard for sprites yet there are some that get left behind when they need a bit of love the most. Guardians look extra bland now compared to Lacula 2.0. I just don't get why a sprite released in 2019 gets priority treatment over one from 2008?

 

If an artist who created a sprite in 2019 wants to polish and update it - that is their privilege. Just because it's older doesn't mean something is more in need of changing. I am one who would rather keep the history here, along with older sprites, and the Lacula - being so new - doesn't bother me at all.

 

4 hours ago, requiesticat said:

 

There was no need to make comments like this. It's just disrespectful to both mods and the artists who worked hard to create these sprites. And you do realize both the magis and legendary trio were released in the early 2000s, right?

 

When posting on forums of any type, you have to follow general etiquette. That doesn't mean you can't share opinions, but when they're caustic like this it helps noone, only serving to derail the discussion. At least DyingLight apologized and described in detail what they found wrong with the updates. You could have said more about why you dislike the sprites and what you would do to fix them, but instead you immediately resorted to demonizing the community here and getting defensive over outright insulting hours of work someone put into creating guardians. That's on you, not anyone else.

 I rather agree.

 

3 minutes ago, Arionid said:

What? lol

 

I wasn't demonizing anything, just sharing an opinion, it's actually not on me if you disagree or dislike it. Like I said, redundant and off-handed remarks like "x is ugly" cause people to get on their high horse, and give entire holier-than-thou speeches on behalf of people they do not represent. If you want to be so sensitive and all inclusive then at least understand not everyone experienced life the same way, hence why I cannot view "ugly" as an offensive word in any context, there's no need to try and aggravate people you cannot relate with.

 

Plus you're the one attempting to derail the thread like this. I've already rephrased my dislikes into criticism, discuss that if you're going to reply.

 

And yes, I was referring to Sakuhana specifically. That's great that Magi and Thunder got polished, yet old:modern sprite ratio here is still 2:3. Snow and Sakuhana did not need the mild reworks and even Lacula 1.0 was fine with current DC standard. Again, I'll ask rhetorically, why put more work into sprites already inline with DC standards over the ones that arguably need more attention?

 

Arguably. Not necessarily.

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Posted (edited)

20 hours ago, Ashywolf said:

 

Some reasons may include: artist permissions on a breed varying, responsiveness of said permission-holder in allowing updates, spriter interest in X or Y breed, and how quickly an "improved" version can be unanimously approved. There's quite a lot of factors, which aren't all down to their age on the site.

 

This. There are many reasons an update may take place, not necessarily due to age. And sometimes updates are necessary. It isn't something the staff ever takes lightly. 

 

I believe this thread has let us get our feelings across long enough, so I will be closing it, on that note. 

 

Edit for clarity: This thread was given a warning that if one more incident happened, it would be closed. This warning is pinned. It became a problem again, and was thus closed. Please look into suggestions/requests for further discussion on sprite updates.

Edited by Kaini

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