Get Rid of Name Exclusivity

[Tini]

It's that he doesn't want a bunch of toggle options, rather than some Coding reason, but yeah I wouldn't want to use one of our 'slots' on that.

[DragonLady86]

I didn't say it was a coding reason. I'm well aware the reason was every single suggestion was suddenly including the phrase: "well why not make it toggle for those that do/don't want it?".

[Twinstar]

I don't like having exclusive names. Just like in real life, people name their pets whatever they want, regardless if someone else is using that name too. There have been lots of names I've wanted to use but couldn't. With so many members and so many dragons now, finding names can be hard. I got lucky and was able to use my username for the perfect dragon a couple years ago but there have been some I've wanted to use that would match their code, but couldn't. I feel members should be able to use the names they want for their own dragons.

[BrazenChase]

Name exclusivity kinda sucks tbh.

 

Bottom line is some folks wanna feel better than others and i think that's a pretty lame reason to keep it.

 

More inclusive and more fun for more people. Sorry to those who wanna feel better than everyone else.

[dragongrrl]

I continue to support exclusivity. I am just getting my first of many breeds released in the last four years and have had no problem naming any of them.

 

With my new Monarchs, I thought certainly that Monarch of the Glen would be taken, and it was. However, I was able to name Glen Of The Monarch ten minutes ago, no problem.

 

Most of the 213 unnamed dragons on my scroll are Codetalkers. The remaining 5733 are named. There are always plenty of options for naming my dragons.

 

No Support.

[Fuzzbucket]

56 minutes ago, BrazenChase said:

Name exclusivity kinda sucks tbh.

 

Bottom line is some folks wanna feel better than others and i think that's a pretty lame reason to keep it.

 

More inclusive and more fun for more people. Sorry to those who wanna feel better than everyone else.

 

Please don't impute motives to people you know nothing about. I don't "want to feel better than others"; I just want my names to be unique. That's not a crime and it doesn't make me, or others, who feel the same way into nasty people. I'm not saying you are lame for disagreeing with me.

[LadyLoki]

On 12/18/2020 at 1:56 PM, KrazyKarp said:

Yeah, sure, I like having a few names that I was able to grab before anyone else, but I also think it's weird and selfish for me and other people to get really into the feeling of "no one else can ever have this name!!! My dragons are the most special!!" As I've emphasized before, this treads into the more subjective territory, but there's somewhat of an empathy issue going on with arguments that favor exclusivity, in my opinion.

^This

 

4 hours ago, Twinstar said:

I don't like having exclusive names. Just like in real life, people name their pets whatever they want, regardless if someone else is using that name too. There have been lots of names I've wanted to use but couldn't. With so many members and so many dragons now, finding names can be hard. I got lucky and was able to use my username for the perfect dragon a couple years ago but there have been some I've wanted to use that would match their code, but couldn't. I feel members should be able to use the names they want for their own dragons.

^This

 

1 hour ago, BrazenChase said:

Name exclusivity kinda sucks tbh.

 

Bottom line is some folks wanna feel better than others and i think that's a pretty lame reason to keep it.

 

More inclusive and more fun for more people. Sorry to those who wanna feel better than everyone else.

^And this pretty much sums up how I feel about continued support for name exclusivity on a game.

Give us a legitimate argument like "Dragon Cave can't support the coding that would go into having LOKI used 1,000+ times" instead of "I want to be special" or "I want to force everyone to be as creative as I am about names!". That's a kinda selfish argument in my opinion. I haven't seen a single legitimate argument for keeping name exclusivity.

Do I feel happy when I get a name that no one else has yet? Sure. Would I be even MORE happy to have the names I want but can't get? Absolutely!!! Would I care if other people used the same names as I did? NOPE! I'd actually be happy to get a dragon with a parent that has the same name that I used as well!

[Sextonator]

Is it really that bad for dragons to share names? Imo the general vibe with the “for” is the implication that people don’t deserve to name dragons if they can’t meet some abstract concept of “creativity” that is an unfair barrier to people with limited vocabularies, or have a hard time thinking of names/words and get stressed because the name they tried didn’t work, or even a “you’re not creative enough” because someone beat them to a lineage project.

[LadyLoki]

13 minutes ago, Sextonator said:

Is it really that bad for dragons to share names? Imo the general vibe with the “for” is the implication that people don’t deserve to name dragons if they can’t meet some abstract concept of “creativity” that is an unfair barrier to people with limited vocabularies, or have a hard time thinking of names/words and get stressed because the name they tried didn’t work, or even a “you’re not creative enough” because someone beat them to a lineage project.

Agreed!

And also, creativity is subjective. Someone might look at an Ice dragon and think, "That is a perfect dragon to name Loki!" while someone else might look and think, "Prince Ice Cube Butt" is the perfect name for it. Both people are being creative in their own way. No one has the right to claim one is more creative than the other. So any argument concerning "creativity" in favor of keeping name exclusivity, IMHO, is ridiculous.

[HeatherMarie]

Honestly, name exclusivity is elitist. It just is. Name exclusivity directly favors people who 'got there first' and negatively affects all the people who didn't. It has created a culture of 'this name is special because no one else has it' attitude, and this strange view that if some other dragon can have that name too it's somehow not special anymore or somehow takes away from the naming experience. It's honestly a viewpoint I've never seen anywhere else, and it feels strange to me. The whole 'bragging rights' and feeling happy/excited that you have a name no one else can have. I understand things like CB Prizes having that viewpoint, but names?? 

 

DC has been steadily moving away from exclusivity for years now, bringing back holiday biomes so newer players can enjoy older CB holidays as well, the whole 'advent calendar' holiday event bringing back past holiday games to be playable again, bringing back Prize raffles so more people have the chance of winning a CB Prize, bringing back Frills and 'Old Pinks' (though under a new name/sprite), etc. Name exclusivity very much feels outdated and not in keeping with what DC has become as a whole. 

 

(And no, being *forced* to be 'creative' with extra letters or weird spellings is *not* a good/fair workaround. No, it doesn't feel good or make things okay that I can get 'name' as long as I actually put 'name1' or something.)

[aegagrusScholarship]

I don’t have much that isn’t just “my opinion” or “my anecdote” so... I’ll use those. Here’s an anecdote.

 

1 hour ago, LadyLoki said:

And also, creativity is subjective. Someone might look at an Ice dragon and think, "That is a perfect dragon to name Loki!" while someone else might look and think, "Prince Ice Cube Butt" is the perfect name for it. Both people are being creative in their own way. No one has the right to claim one is more creative than the other. So any argument concerning "creativity" in favor of keeping name exclusivity, IMHO, is ridiculous.

Continuing on from this:

 

You want creativity? Fandom names aren’t creative, right? Name exclusivity forces me to be creative in naming with real original names right?
 

Alright, tell that to the hours upon hours I spend finding the correct dragons for my favourite characters — both design-wise and lore-wise. I have an entire document of which dragon species suits which fandom character for three entire full casts. I can tell you all exactly all the reasons I picked particular species for particular characters. Does this count as creative? Or must I come up with fully original names to be creative? And what if that original name is something really dumb and obvious, is that still creative?
 

Even if I get a name no one’s gotten before, is it really “creative”? If I just so happened to get “Bob” before anyone else on the site got it, do you really count that as creative— and if not, then what is? Shoddy Latin translations (as I do right now)? Keysmashes? Putting a number next to the name? Are any of these creative?

 

Also, right now, what I do for names that are already taken is adding extra spaces to them. I really doubt that’s creative, that’s just me grabbing the nearest loophole I can find and lazily flopping through it. 

[KrazyKarp]

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Please don't impute motives to people you know nothing about. I don't "want to feel better than others"; I just want my names to be unique. That's not a crime and it doesn't make me, or others, who feel the same way into nasty people. I'm not saying you are lame for disagreeing with me.

 

Chase's post isn't wrong, though it isn't exactly how I would word it. The practical reasons, e.g. /view/n page, for supporting exclusivity have solutions for if exclusivity is eliminated. So it really has boiled down to people feeling good about having a unique name that no one else has, which would fall into the following

 

4 hours ago, BrazenChase said:

Bottom line is some folks wanna feel better than others

 

i.e. feeling good about having a unique name comes at the cost of causing frustrating and annoyances for others. It's what I had emphasized in my previous post, too; I really think of it as a selfish point of view. Myself and others aren't going so far as to say those who support exclusivity are "committing a crime" or are "nasty people", that's an exaggeration.

 

2 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

DC has been steadily moving away from exclusivity for years now, bringing back holiday biomes so newer players can enjoy older CB holidays as well, the whole 'advent calendar' holiday event bringing back past holiday games to be playable again, bringing back Prize raffles so more people have the chance of winning a CB Prize, bringing back Frills and 'Old Pinks' (though under a new name/sprite), etc. Name exclusivity very much feels outdated and not in keeping with what DC has become as a whole. 

 

This, definitely. I brought this up earlier in the thread and this is something super important to continue to keep in mind.

[dragongrrl]

I am not a fast clicker, don't have mountains of low gen Prizes, CB Silvers or Golds. I have three 2nd gen Thuweds from five and a half very active years on the site. I still don't have a low gen Holly, although I am hoping to get my CBs this year. I never got CB Marrows when they were released because I wasn't fast enough. Maybe, next year for the Marrows, if TJ continues with the older release biome, but I was completely locked out by those with faster connections, and I'm still struggling in my quest for the Hollies. The biggest treasures on my scroll are my dragon names.

 

There is (or was) a thread for trading names. Why can't you leave it at that?

[Keileon]

5 hours ago, dragongrrl said:

I continue to support exclusivity. I am just getting my first of many breeds released in the last four years and have had no problem naming any of them.

 

With my new Monarchs, I thought certainly that Monarch of the Glen would be taken, and it was. However, I was able to name Glen Of The Monarch ten minutes ago, no problem.

 

Most of the 213 unnamed dragons on my scroll are Codetalkers. The remaining 5733 are named. There are always plenty of options for naming my dragons.

 

No Support.

 

13 minutes ago, dragongrrl said:

I am not a fast clicker, don't have mountains of low gen Prizes, CB Silvers or Golds. I have three 2nd gen Thuweds from five and a half very active years on the site. I still don't have a low gen Holly, although I am hoping to get my CBs this year. I never got CB Marrows when they were released because I wasn't fast enough. Maybe, next year for the Marrows, if TJ continues with the older release biome, but I was completely locked out by those with faster connections, and I'm still struggling in my quest for the Hollies. The biggest treasures on my scroll are my dragon names.

 

There is (or was) a thread for trading names. Why can't you leave it at that?

A big trend I'm seeing with arguments in favor of exclusivity is "I'm fine with not having the things I want so you should be too". Yeah, sure, whatever, there are infinite options for naming dragons, but just because you're okay naming something with some way of getting around unique names doesn't mean everyone is. I have the name, for example, Vector; some people might be willing to use V e c t o r or xVectorx or Vector123 but frankly dragon names shouldn't have to go through the same hoops that usernames and email addresses do to stay unique.

[aegagrusScholarship]

27 minutes ago, dragongrrl said:

 

There is (or was) a thread for trading names. Why can't you leave it at that?

As a very new player, I barely have anything worth trading. And the names I have that might/do have some value are ones I want to keep on top of that.

 

Name trading only benefits old players who have been able to snag a lot of ‘valuable’ names to the point that they’re willing to give some up in the first place. Also, it’s only available to players who have a forum account and found the thread as well. No matter how you slice it, name trading locks out newer players. 
 

As well as that, there’s no way to be sure the trade goes through because it’s a thread and it’s unofficial. The names can get sniped halfway through, or one side just scams the other side. It’s not 100%.

 

Anyways, even then, name trading is ‘fixing the wrong problem’. It’s not a solution, it’s just another bandaid on the issue of name exclusivity, and it’s very inaccessible in general.

Edited December 20, 2020 by aegagrusScholarship

[dragongrrl]

The only time I've added spaces is for the Doctor Who lineage where a dozen people might end up with the last part off the quote:

 

https://dragcave.net/lineage/1DRfp, https://dragcave.net/progeny/f8TSZ or https://dragcave.net/progeny/Z28Am, for examples.

 

I've never resorted to numbers. It just doesn't suit my naming styles.

 

Great names are still available to anyone playing today, as I just finished naming dragons from the past month earlier today, and I'm completely pleased with the names I was able to get. I've added at least 179 names since November 10th of this year.

 

I really don't want to see a thousand Smaugs on the site.

[Tini]

46 minutes ago, dragongrrl said:

There is (or was) a thread for trading names. Why can't you leave it at that?

Alright let me hit up an unknown scroll from 2009 to try and trade for a name on a dead dragon that I desperately want. That'll work. /s

Not that I have any worthwhile names I'm willing to part with anyway.

 

Plus the whole reason the teleport BSA existed is so that people could trade but, hey, you can't trade nicknamed dragons with that. Nickname trading is not Offically supported in any capacity, you could set up a nickname trade only for them to steal the name you had and keep their own and there's nothing any mod could or would do about it.

  

3 minutes ago, dragongrrl said:

I really don't want to see a thousand Smaugs on the site.

I promise you there's hundreds currently. How does it hurt you?

Edited December 20, 2020 by Tinibree

[Twinstar]

10 minutes ago, dragongrrl said:

I really don't want to see a thousand Smaugs on the site.

So if a thousand members want to use that name but can't because of one person, that is fair? Why should it even matter what someone wants to call their own dragon? 🤦‍♀️ maybe there could be a way to disable being able to see other members' dragon names? Though I don't see why it is a big deal to begin with.

[aegagrusScholarship]

21 minutes ago, dragongrrl said:

I've never resorted to numbers. It just doesn't suit my naming styles.

Alright, but some people might feel forced to use numbers. This doesn’t seem related to the topic, though? Just because you’ve never done it/had to do it doesn’t mean other people haven’t, and they might be miffed about it.

 

21 minutes ago, dragongrrl said:

Great names are still available to anyone playing today, as I just finished naming dragons from the past month earlier today, and I'm completely pleased with the names I was able to get. I've added at least 179 names since November 10th of this year.

 

I really don't want to see a thousand Smaugs on the site.

I could grab a bunch of ‘great names’, I’m sure, but they are likely not the names I would like or enjoy in any capacity. As for the final line, as Tinibree and Twinstar said, why does it matter to you? Why and how does it affect you? I’m not being sarcastic or anything, I genuinely would like to know.

Edited December 20, 2020 by aegagrusScholarship

[dragongrrl]

Inactive scrolls from 2009 were wiped, as that was one of the reason that Midas Dorkface and Shallynaar ended up on different dragons, messing up a LOT of lineages, maybe 2014? They were restored with The Original at the beginning of both their names, since the new name owner wouldn't trade. I think that was the reason that TJ stopped wiping inactive scrolls. I can't find any trace of my niece's scroll, and I'm not sure when she was last active. I only remember the name of one off her dragons, and it is not in current use.

 

I did help to retrieve the names of The Peppermint and Effect when their names were wiped. I don't remember all the details, but it was reasonably straight forward. No sniping.

[dragongrrl]

3 minutes ago, aegagrusScholarship said:

 

I could grab a bunch of ‘great names’, I’m sure, but they are likely not the names I would like or enjoy in any capacity. As for the final line, as Tinibree and Twinstar said, why does it matter to you? Why and how does it affect you? I’m not being sarcastic or anything, I genuinely would like to know.

And as I said earlier, my dragon names are the greatest treasures on my scroll

[Sextonator]

Are you really going to see less value in your dragon’s names if another dragon has the same name? Is it really going to hurt you if there are half a million smaugs? You’re not going to see them. What someone names their dragons does not affect you, and is NONE of your business, or anyone else’s, and your stance comes off as selfish and gatekeepy.

[bonvoyage]

I've been casually following this thread, and while I do totally understand the arguments against it and that it can be a pain, I still personally prefer name exclusivity. I don't believe that's me being elitist or lacking empathy for others who might want to use the same names as me. I can guarantee that 99.9% of the names on my scroll no one is ever going to care about taking, most of them are inside jokes, stuff I've misheard, silly stuff I've seen online etc. The simple fact is the majority of the fun of the game for me is coming up with names no one has taken, using them in funny ways in lineages, and seeing what names other people come up with on their own scrolls. I have most of the dragons I want, so simply grabbing new breeds every month doesn't keep me invested. Instead I treasure my names, which represent 7 years of me naming dragons with whatever random stuff was going on in my brain at the time. I know for a fact that if name exclusivity was removed my names would get less creative, and naming would simply be less fun for me (personally; I'm not saying this applies to everyone by any means). Furthermore, suddenly every scroll would be able to take some of the most obvious names, which isn't necessarily a problem, but I do worry it would have a big homogenising effect on the site, and that it might actually cause people to become bored more quickly and leave. I know plenty of people disagree with me and that's totally fine, but that's just my opinion. I can live with name exclusivity being removed, I just personally prefer it and think it is something that makes the site unique.

[dragongrrl]

5 minutes ago, Sextonator said:

Are you really going to see less value in your dragon’s names if another dragon has the same name? Is it really going to hurt you if there are half a million smaugs? You’re not going to see them. What someone names their dragons does not affect you, and is NONE of your business, or anyone else’s, and your stance comes off as selfish and gatekeepy.

I love seeing the names from families of my bred dragons, and seeing what the offspring of my dragons are named can be a great delight. Why are you telling me what I can or cannot enjoy?

 

Thank you, bonvoyage, for your post, as I think it expresses my feelings very well.

[Tini]

46 minutes ago, dragongrrl said:

Inactive scrolls from 2009 were wiped, as that was one of the reason that Midas Dorkface and Shallynaar ended up on different dragons, messing up a LOT of lineages, maybe 2014? They were restored with The Original at the beginning of both their names, since the new name owner wouldn't trade. I think that was the reason that TJ stopped wiping inactive scrolls. I can't find any trace of my niece's scroll, and I'm not sure when she was last active. I only remember the name of one off her dragons, and it is not in current use.

 

I did help to retrieve the names of The Peppermint and Effect when their names were wiped. I don't remember all the details, but it was reasonably straight forward. No sniping.

Er, as I recall it they saved it FOR the original person but they didn't want it. But whatever, not the point.

You just admitted scroll wipes don't happen anymore. Therefore people that abandoned the site after the name wipe are holding names that aren't technically in 'use' and keeping them from the rest of us. Which is what my statement was actually about.

 

Don't get confused though, I'm 1000% against wiping.  

 

8 minutes ago, bonvoyage said:

Instead I treasure my names, which represent 7 years of me naming dragons

This is one of the big problems, and what makes it elitist. You had 7 years to get those names before someone else who'd never even heard of the site. Name exclusivity is weighted towards people who've been here forever, and harms newer players. Newer players who might be excited to have figured out the perfect name only to be denied because someone else took it first, and killing their enthusiasm for the site.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Tinibree