Get Rid of Name Exclusivity

[purpledragonclaw]

After members requested it and mods discussed it, we're going to go ahead and re-open this rather than have members create a new thread. Please note that this is not a guarantee it will remain open if things get toxic again, but we'll give re-opening this thread a shot instead of creating a new thread.

[Falorni]

Support - as several users have said, it's already very much possible to make near-identical/"inbred-looking" lineages with the current system, I don't see why it'd be any worse without name exclusivity.  Sure, maybe we'd see more names like "My cool dragon" but ultimately who are we to judge what others wanna name their dragons?

[Ruby Eyes]

I am still against this. I want my /view/n/ links to go to a single specific dragon.

 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I'm still against this too.

 

1) I like the view/n/ function and use it all the time. Any changes to that to show more than one name would make things much more tedious, especially for popular names

 

2) It makes it easy to eye check for inbreeding in most lower gen lineages. Yes, some people intentionally make similar looking names which are confusing to name check, but these are a very small minority and don't have much weight as a counter argument in my eyes because of it. I also don't want codes shown below names because they're often ugly and immersion breaking. The whole reason I name is so I DON'T see the codes.

 

3) Many people take pride in being the first to think of a really neat name, and some people even trade or gift such names. All that special attachment goes poof if they're a dime a dozen. 
 

While there's fair arguments to be made on both sides, the fact that no side has a clear "victory" over the other, plus my above concerns, makes me think we should stick to what's been the naming system for over a decade now. If two suggestions both have pros and cons and are diametrically opposed with no middle ground possible, stick with what has existed and been used longest.

 

Aside from that, while I realize mileage will vary and this certainly won't cover all cases, in most cases it's very easy to just add a scroll surname to things and that opens up a whole new world of options. I really don't think the current system is as limiting as some fear.

 

And last but not least--do we really think anything as cool as a dragon would deign to share its name with another? These are greedy dragons, after all!  

[MissK.]

@Ruby Eyes @angelicdragonpuppy

How do you feel about an alternative suggestion regarding the view/n/ link? It has been a while by now but I believe there was something in this thread about the link still leading to the first dragon with that name (which would solve the issue of the links currently in use), potentially with some "click here to view more dragons with that name" option to redirect you to the full search.

 

Also,

2 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

While there's fair arguments to be made on both sides, the fact that no side has a clear "victory" over the other, plus my above concerns, makes me think we should stick to what's been the naming system for over a decade now. If two suggestions both have pros and cons and are diametrically opposed with no middle ground possible, stick with what has existed and been used longest.

 

Aside from that, while I realize mileage will vary and this certainly won't cover all cases, in most cases it's very easy to just add a scroll surname to things and that opens up a whole new world of options. I really don't think the current system is as limiting as some fear.

 

I get what you mean with the no middle ground, because in some ways the two 'sides' are definitely opposites, but I do think there are ways to satisfy at least some of the interests of both sides. As I mentioned above for example, there could be some suggestions for the link that keep a majority happy.

 

And for me I can't imagine using a surname for all my dragons. It's not that I dislike the look of it, I have done that for specific lineages, but most of my dragons do not belong to a certain lineage project and therefore are completely different from each other. I couldn't possibly think of a common surname to give them all that wouldn't sound wrong with at least some of the names I want to use. But that's clearly personal preference.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@MissK.While that would start great, it would quickly have diminishing returns going forward as any newly named dragons would be less and less likely to be originals, making things forever further to find going forward. Things like "check my scroll only" would help in a lot of cases, yes, but not all. Another some pros, some cons suggestion with limited mileage.

 

And yah, you're right and I should have worded it better. There are middle grounds, but the basic question beneath--are names unique, or are they not--doesn't have a compromise. Even something like "make names on a single scroll unique without repeats" cuts into true "uniqueness." Every suggestion has compromises forced on somebody, so I'd rather stick with the status quo.

 

Obviously mileage will vary, but a lot of people tend to use surnames for their more "inessential" dragons and then special, surname less names for specific things, like song lineages. In your case maybe something like of Misk (a play on your username obv haha!) or of Asgard / Midgard / Valhalla?

 

And I know surnames won't work for all situations, but I feel like they'd relieve 80% of angst for situations where people want repeat names just because they're struggling to think of a non taken name at all.

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

I'm still against it, and there are legal considerations.

People like to use names of whatever characters are in their current favorite movie.

Disney, in particular, is known to file lawsuits over frivolous things like that. They once sued a young boy for selling his artwork of their copyrighted characters to raise money for charity. 

[Falorni]

1 minute ago, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

I'm still against it, and there are legal considerations.

People like to use names of whatever characters are in their current favorite movie.

Disney, in particular, is known to file lawsuits over frivolous things like that. They once sued a young boy for selling his artwork of their copyrighted characters to raise money for charity. 

While I can partially agree with what other people have said re: opposing viewpoints (or at least understand where they're coming from), I feel the legal considerations argument is..... weak at best.  You naming a dragon something like, idk, Queen Elsa of Arendelle, isn't a thing that'd monetarily benefit you or DC and is thus different from someone selling art of Disney characters (as crappy as that situation is for the kid and I genuinely feel for him, Disney is basically just the Amazon/Facebook of movies at this point anyway)

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

2 minutes ago, Falorni said:

 I feel the legal considerations argument is..... weak at best.  

Disney has the money and the lawyers to throw at frivolous cases without batting an eye, and do.

[Falorni]

Just now, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

Disney has the money and the lawyers to throw at frivolous cases without batting an eye, and do.

I am aware, but I still stand by what I said on this.  DC doesn't profit from it in any way (other than potential user enjoyment) so unless you can find me an example case where they actually did something like this I just can't see it happening.

 

sorry if the wording sounds passive aggressive, I'm awful with tone but that's sincerely not my intention ;v;

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@Long_Before_Sunrisewhile I don't doubt the zealous aggression of big corporations protecting their property, I really don't think that has any impact here. There could already be a thousand Elsas of Frozen running around with different added descriptions or surnames on site. Removing unique names isn't going to make a sizable impact there. And the fact that no money is being made renders the point even further moot.

I don't see Disney suing parents for making their kids Disney character Halloween costumes from scratch or naming their dogs after Simba. It's a $$$ thing. No profit, no legal standing, no point wasting everyone's time.

 

Even if there's a .001% chance of this happening (which I doubt), there are much more relevant, immediate pro/cons for the argument that should take the spotlight over the very minuscule risk of this.

Edited March 19, 2021 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Falorni]

1 minute ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

@Long_Before_Sunrisewhile I don't doubt the zealous aggression of big corporations protecting their property, I really don't think that has any impact here. There could already be a thousand Elsas of Frozen running around with different added descriptions or surnames on sight. Removing unique names isn't going to make a sizable impact there. And the fact that no money is being made renders the point even further moot.

I don't see Disney suing parents for making their kids Disney character Halloween costumes from scratch or naming their dogs after Simba. It's a $$$ thing. No profit, no legal standing, no point wasting everyone's time.

Pretty much what I wanted to say but much better worded, thank you!

[MissK.]

Agreed with the above. There are already so many Disney related names on the site, if it was truly going to cause issues I think we would have heard by now. 

 

33 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

@MissK.While that would start great, it would quickly have diminishing returns going forward as any newly named dragons would be less and less likely to be originals, making things forever further to find going forward. Things like "check my scroll only" would help in a lot of cases, yes, but not all. Another some pros, some cons suggestion with limited mileage.

 

And yah, you're right and I should have worded it better. There are middle grounds, but the basic question beneath--are names unique, or are they not--doesn't have a compromise. Even something like "make names on a single scroll unique without repeats" cuts into true "uniqueness." Every suggestion has compromises forced on somebody, so I'd rather stick with the status quo.

 

Obviously mileage will vary, but a lot of people tend to use surnames for their more "inessential" dragons and then special, surname less names for specific things, like song lineages. In your case maybe something like of Misk (a play on your username obv haha!) or of Asgard / Midgard / Valhalla?

 

And I know surnames won't work for all situations, but I feel like they'd relieve 80% of angst for situations where people want repeat names just because they're struggling to think of a non taken name at all.

 

Yeah I see what you mean. Of course, people who really want to come up with original names could still do so by checking the view/n/ link (or even better, if there was an indication when a name is already in existence even if it didn't prevent us from naming), and then would know the link would work for their own dragon. People could keep using spaces, surnames and other extra things to obtain this privilege. When it comes to finding dragons of other people, well, I don't see why this needs to be encouraged in the first place. We can do it now, yes, but technically there is no reason we are entitled to be able to access other people's dragons, let alone in the most convenient way. But honestly, now that I think about it, if you think that most people wouldn't pick original names after a while...then doesn't that mean that a lack of exclusivity is something the majority would prefer? 

 

While I appreciate the suggestions (I'm not being sarcastic btw, in case my tone doesn't come across correctly haha), those would still clash with some styles of names I like to use. Surnames etc just aren't something that suits everyone I think, but I admire those who stick to a naming scheme, it usually looks pretty in lineages.

Edited March 19, 2021 by MissK.

[Sextonator]

Still for this because I still want it to be super easy to slap names onto my dragons without having to put a huge amount of effort into it, and so I can more easily pair up and breed specialty dragons with greater ease.

 

I can always put more effort into the names once I’ve gotten a good line going.

 

I value the ability to name things what I want regardless of whether it’s unique or not, because uniqueness doesn’t matter to me. I’d much rather see thousands of fandom names or family tree lineages than strained or garbled names that are unique.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

29 minutes ago, MissK. said:

Agreed with the above. There are already so many Disney related names on the site, if it was truly going to cause issues I think we would have heard by now. 

 

 

Yeah I see what you mean. Of course, people who really want to come up with original names could still do so by checking the view/n/ link (or even better, if there was an indication when a name is already in existence even if it didn't prevent us from naming), and then would know the link would work for their own dragon. People could keep using spaces, surnames and other extra things to obtain this privilege. When it comes to finding dragons of other people, well, I don't see why this needs to be encouraged in the first place. We can do it now, yes, but technically there is no reason we are entitled to be able to access other people's dragons, let alone in the most convenient way. But honestly, now that I think about it, if you think that most people wouldn't pick original names after a while...then doesn't that mean that a lack of exclusivity is something the majority would prefer? 

 

While I appreciate the suggestions (I'm not being sarcastic btw, in case my tone doesn't come across correctly haha), those would still clash with some styles of names I like to use. Surnames etc just aren't something that suits everyone I think, but I admire those who stick to a naming scheme, it usually looks pretty in lineages.

But what if people WANT others to find their dragons? Allowing username to show on dragon pages and matching your forum name to your username is a choice. People can form new friendships over shared fandoms or prize owners can remember each other for kinswaps more easily if they have handy names to remember than codes (and yes, I know names CAN change, but most stay steady). While the uses are fairly limited, they're still uses.

 

Also--you forget that innate human laziness is a factor in everything, haha. Myself and others want unique names, but if we have to tediously check /n/ every time we name something to make sure it's unique instead of relying on that little check mark, we're probably not going to bother. Especially when someone else can come along two minutes later and make the name non unique by also using it. I don't think a rise in non unique names if this was implemented means much of anything.

 

And no worry, your voice comes across fine! Like I said before, obviously surnames won't work for everyone, but I think they would help in a lot of cases where people are just frazzled and pulling their hair out because every name they can think of is taken in its base form. Even if surnames aren't everyone's cup of tea, I've seen things like people using Roman Numerals or adding made up, pretty sounding words that act as unique identifiers on their scroll of things like CB, inbred, etc. I am aware this doesn't solve EVERYONE'S issues about names not being unique, but I feel for MOST people there are fairly effective workarounds that give you free range within the boundaries of uniqueness.

 

[MissK.]

3 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

But what if people WANT others to find their dragons? Allowing username to show on dragon pages and matching your forum name to your username is a choice. People can form new friendships over shared fandoms or prize owners can remember each other for kinswaps more easily if they have handy names to remember than codes (and yes, I know names CAN change, but most stay steady). While the uses are fairly limited, they're still uses.

 

Also--you forget that innate human laziness is a factor in everything, haha. Myself and others want unique names, but if we have to tediously check /n/ every time we name something to make sure it's unique instead of relying on that little check mark, we're probably not going to bother. Especially when someone else can come along two minutes later and make the name non unique by also using it. I don't think a rise in non unique names if this was implemented means much of anything.

 

And no worry, your voice comes across fine! Like I said before, obviously surnames won't work for everyone, but I think they would help in a lot of cases where people are just frazzled and pulling their hair out because every name they can think of is taken in its base form. Even if surnames aren't everyone's cup of tea, I've seen things like people using Roman Numerals or adding made up, pretty sounding words that act as unique identifiers on their scroll of things like CB, inbred, etc. I am aware this doesn't solve EVERYONE'S issues about names not being unique, but I feel for MOST people there are fairly effective workarounds that give you free range within the boundaries of uniqueness.

 

 

Oh absolutely, but currently there is not really a way to opt out of that. If for some reason I don't want people finding my dragons randomly by putting names in the link, and checking the progeny for example, I can't really prevent that. Since a lot of people value privacy very highly, I don't really see why the site has to make it easier for us to access each other's dragons - it would still be an option with this suggestion, just with admittedly the extra hassle of going through a list. But I get why it would be annoying if someone uses that a lot currently.

 

Agreed on laziness, so I fully support still having a checkmark or something to indicate original names if name exclusivity is actually removed at some point. I personally would still love to know I thought of a name first lol (unless someone unnamed something of course). 

 

There are definitely workarounds yeah, I just happen to be one of the people who don't really want to use them, just not my aesthetic except for specific projects. To me it's not the end of the world at all if things remain as they are, but considering about half of my scroll is unnamed at this point even though I used to name all my dragons, having more options would definitely encourage me to do that more often again. 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

7 minutes ago, MissK. said:

 

Oh absolutely, but currently there is not really a way to opt out of that. If for some reason I don't want people finding my dragons randomly by putting names in the link, and checking the progeny for example, I can't really prevent that. Since a lot of people value privacy very highly, I don't really see why the site has to make it easier for us to access each other's dragons - it would still be an option with this suggestion, just with admittedly the extra hassle of going through a list. But I get why it would be annoying if someone uses that a lot currently.

 

 

? Just disable "show username on scroll" in your account settings. Then even if someone is looking at your dragon they won't know it's yours unless they found out through some unofficial channel.

 

 

 

[dragongrrl]

Why do you need to check other scrolls to see if a name is in use?  

 

When I name my dragons, all I do is fill out the name I want. X, it's already taken, I simply change it around until I get a ✔, then I hit accept and it's done. It doesn't bother me if someone already has my first choice, but that rarely happens anyway.

 

I also unfortunately do need to keep my scroll name turned off because there is always some idiot waiting to mess around with my babes.

[MissK.]

1 hour ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

? Just disable "show username on scroll" in your account settings. Then even if someone is looking at your dragon they won't know it's yours unless they found out through some unofficial channel.

 

 

 

 

Oh I know, I have that option disabled. But then why does anyone need a direct link to my dragon anyway? For people who show their username it can make sense like you said, as you can figure out whose dragon it is and contact them. What's the point for people who don't want that? Just random people potentially tracking their freshly bred eggs probably. Again, the option would not be gone anyway, it would just take a bit longer to find one specific dragon; on the other hand it could make connecting with new people easier. Right now if I search for a dragon named Loki, I will only find one. To find more people with dragons named Loki in some variation, I would have to search specific combinations separately. With a list of results for just the name Loki, perhaps forming friendships like you said would be even easier. It's a different functionality indeed, but it doesn't mean it's only a loss.

[Fuzzbucket]

7 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

I'm still against this too.

 

1) I like the view/n/ function and use it all the time. Any changes to that to show more than one name would make things much more tedious, especially for popular names

 

2) It makes it easy to eye check for inbreeding in most lower gen lineages. Yes, some people intentionally make similar looking names which are confusing to name check, but these are a very small minority and don't have much weight as a counter argument in my eyes because of it. I also don't want codes shown below names because they're often ugly and immersion breaking. The whole reason I name is so I DON'T see the codes.

 

3) Many people take pride in being the first to think of a really neat name, and some people even trade or gift such names. All that special attachment goes poof if they're a dime a dozen. 
 

While there's fair arguments to be made on both sides, the fact that no side has a clear "victory" over the other, plus my above concerns, makes me think we should stick to what's been the naming system for over a decade now. If two suggestions both have pros and cons and are diametrically opposed with no middle ground possible, stick with what has existed and been used longest.

 

Aside from that, while I realize mileage will vary and this certainly won't cover all cases, in most cases it's very easy to just add a scroll surname to things and that opens up a whole new world of options. I really don't think the current system is as limiting as some fear.

 

And last but not least--do we really think anything as cool as a dragon would deign to share its name with another? These are greedy dragons, after all!  

 

8 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

I am still against this. I want my /view/n/ links to go to a single specific dragon.

 

I'm 100% with these two.

 

34 minutes ago, dragongrrl said:

Why do you need to check other scrolls to see if a name is in use?  

 

When I name my dragons, all I do is fill out the name I want. X, it's already taken, I simply change it around until I get a ✔, then I hit accept and it's done. It doesn't bother me if someone already has my first choice, but that rarely happens anyway.

 

I also unfortunately do need to keep my scroll name turned off because there is always some idiot waiting to mess around with my babes.

 

You WOULD have to check if you wanted to be unique, really - and more so if you want it to stay unique - if someone uses a name of mine after I have used it, I want to know that, thanks. Would we be notified ?

And there are a lot of threads here where you HAVE to show your scroll name to join in.

[missy_]

I am still against this. orphaned said it best:

 

ETA: This is only one of many reasons I support name exclusivity.

 

On 10/29/2020 at 2:52 AM, orphaned said:

For me, name exclusivity is important and part of the enjoyment of my scroll.

 

The dragons are all the same in appearance .. at least let us have  exclusive names.

Edited March 19, 2021 by missy_

[Keileon]

I'm still in absolutely full support of removing exclusivity, for reasons I have stated and repeated throughout this thread. None of the reasons people have used to be against it hold much weight, in my opinion, to not have what is ultimately a quality of life update.

[Sextonator]

Y’know, lore wise, name exclusivity doesn’t make sense. Role play wise, it doesn’t make sense. I’ve made up backstories for my dragons from time to time, and realistically, if AURA THE WARRIOR was so great a warrior, there’s no doubt that she’d have at least one generation named after her, even if they dropped the “the warrior” part. And who on Valkymere is going to travel the lands to make sure there’s only one entity named a particular thing?

 

 

And, not on the topic of lore or rp, would Aura the Warrior still be unique if there was an Aura the Amazonian or maybe Aura the gifted? What about Pickles the Warrior? It’s not the same but it’s got “the warrior” at the end. Is Aura the Warrior still unique, can you consider Pickles the Warrior unique? And what about “-Aura the Warrior-“? Is THAT unique? I know not all names are going to be copied, but y’know, not all names are going to be copied. Someone might come up with the same idea, but is that bad?

[Murkydepths]

I still like name exclusivity.

 

[Dracaena]

I have another idea that I don't think has been mentioned.

 

Make names case sensitive.  That would open up many names while keeping names exclusive.