Loan out to stud

[Jazeki]

12 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

can't think of single real reason anyone would support this idea that doesn't boil down to "I want it. You have it. You should give it to me." And I find the entitlement offputting

I am inclined to agree here. The suggestion is essentially paying for offspring from someone else's dragons. The assumption is that if I pay 500 shards for Jim the silver on your scroll to breed with Jane the silver on my scroll, I get to keep the new baby silver egg that comes from them. 

 

It's  not a gift. It's not a trade (unless OP wants to clarify). It's a purchase. 

 

This suggestion implies that any user can and should have access to offspring of someone else's scroll if they have the ability to pay for it.

[Shadowdrake]

9 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

It's not a trade

...what exactly is the difference between a purchase and a trade? DC is a barter system, but people certainly throw around hatchlings like they're money.

[Jazeki]

1 minute ago, Shadowdrake said:

...what exactly is the difference between a purchase and a trade? DC is a barter system, but people certainly throw around hatchlings like they're money.

A trade would be my dragon for the other person's dragon...or we both get eggs (one person apparently gets shards on top of that).

 

In this instance, one person gets shards, the other person gets a dragon. Like the market. Those eggs are purchased.

[Lindy]

I don’t think this is a bad idea if implemented properly (although I personally probably wouldn’t use it myself), but I do understand where arguments on harassment are coming from. I just don’t feel that harassment would become an even larger issue with this feature if it already exists without it? I also agree that it is the job of a moderator to moderate...

I feel like a lot of these issues could be resolved by only allowing breed requests out to dragons that have been explicitly put up for stud and for it to be accepted on both ends first before a transfer. There would be no way to request if the dragon is not a stud. (or lonely hearts dragon I guess :P) Just because the feature exists doesn’t mean you’re entitled to anything, in my opinion.

In terms of what if the other scroll kills/releases the dragon...I believe I saw a post early on about straight up not allowing those options on a transferred dragon and automatically transferring back after time is up (you could even go one step further and have the dragon auto transfer back immediately after breeding).

 

Sorry if this post is disjointed/messy/redundant, I’m not good at retaining an entire thread’s worth of arguments o)-<

[DragonLady86]

Please remember mods are volunteers. They don't get paid. They devote their time and energy to this game because they love it. 

[Moonlightelf]

While this is something that could work in another adoptable site, I don't believe it to work in Dragon Cave myself. Aside the concerns that have been thrown into the issues at hand, I personally would have issues with offsprings themselves, especially if my dragon was included into some sort of inbreeding project through this service.

 

Also... if there would be studding service... What would be point of collecting more dragons for new people when you can just bug a lot of people for offsprings of dragons they don't have yet? No need to put the work on the harder to catch ones when you can just get them through studding, right folks?

 

16 hours ago, borntobefree said:

12 pm Hey I noticed you have an X type dragon would you mind breeding it for me? I can offer a trade in return.

12:01 No I don't breed upon request, my dragons are mine and i do not breed for others.

12:02 Fine thanks was just hoping.

I personally would find this phrase as them trying to guilt trip me while not making it overly obvious. "was just hoping" can leave some more gullible and more easily manipulated people to change their mind.
Otherwise they have no reason to add that bit of phrasing there. Then again, I'm highly skeptical individual who has been through enough of "once bitten" situations.

[Shadowdrake]

22 minutes ago, Moonlightelf said:

What would be point of collecting more dragons for new people when you can just bug a lot of people for offsprings of dragons they don't have yet?

But... They can do that now??? There's multiple gifting groups regarding breeding including the free breeding of rares??

 

And if you don't want your dragons used in x way then, well, don't put them up for stud? 

 

38 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

Please remember mods are volunteers. They don't get paid. They devote their time and energy to this game because they love it. 

They may be volunteers but they sent in applications and their job, unpaid as it may be, is still to help manage the community. That's what a mod is, in many forum or other online communities.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Shadowdrake

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, Shadowdrake said:

In the sense that they shut down harassment like they do for other off-site contact? Absolutely. (This is assuming that all contact on-site is either initiated by the lender, teleport style, or all first-contact remains off-site, like old trades)

 

In the sense that they're policing what you on your borrower do with your dragons? No. what would be the point? TJ can add in several easy ways to prevent "fraud" involving how and when the dragon is managed; there would be nothing for the mods to manage unless a hub-style dragon center popped up.

 

So only when someone needs to report something like harassment - and a studding gone wrong doesn't count, just as a trade you decide wasn't what you wanted doesn't.  They should NOT be expected to monitor the studding stuff or manage it in any way, Because:

 

46 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

Please remember mods are volunteers. They don't get paid. They devote their time and energy to this game because they love it. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jazeki said:

A trade would be my dragon for the other person's dragon...or we both get eggs (one person apparently gets shards on top of that).

 

In this instance, one person gets shards, the other person gets a dragon. Like the market. Those eggs are purchased.

 

Exactly. And I really dislike the shards getting into this. If it were to happen it needs to be entirely a goodwill thing.

 

29 minutes ago, Moonlightelf said:

While this is something that could work in another adoptable site, I don't believe it to work in Dragon Cave myself. Aside the concerns that have been thrown into the issues at hand, I personally would have issues with offsprings themselves, especially if my dragon was included into some sort of inbreeding project through this service.

 

Also... if there would be studding service... What would be point of collecting more dragons for new people when you can just bug a lot of people for offsprings of dragons they don't have yet? No need to put the work on the harder to catch ones when you can just get them through studding, right folks?

 

Or simply ask (nicely) one of us who breeds for free to breed it - much less effort. After all - if you ask to "borrow" a gold to get yourself one and it delivers a lihnseyre instead, you are no further ahead - a studding wasted. Better to ask for someone to breed you a gold in the first place. If I were asked to do that I'd stick with it till I got one.

 

Quote

 

I personally would find this phrase as them trying to guilt trip me while not making it overly obvious. "was just hoping" can leave some more gullible and more easily manipulated people to change their mind.
Otherwise they have no reason to add that bit of phrasing there. Then again, I'm highly skeptical individual who has been through enough of "once bitten" situations.

 

Um yeah.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[Shadowdrake]

1 minute ago, Fuzzbucket said:

So only when someone needs to report something like harassment - and a studding gone wrong doesn't count, just as a trade you decide wasn't what you wanted doesn't.

Of course. I don't think any supporters or even fence-sitters on this suggestion ever said otherwise, since it's already been suggested ways suggested to manage the care and automatic return of dragons without higher input.

 

12 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Exactly. And I really dislike the shards getting into this. If it were to happen it needs to be entirely a goodwill

Or, it could be either one-way lend or in exchange for eggs the borrower offers, like the rest of trading. (Actually that wouldn't be too terrible an idea for the lender; it'd remove any questions of "how many eggs do we generate in an inter-scroll breeding". On the other hand, it'd be a continuous gamble for the borrower unless the lender was nice enough to lend multiple times for free until they get the egg they need, which ends up falling into IOUs.)

 

 

 

Mind, I don't think this is a good idea, compared to alternatives, but I'm not going to shoot it down because "I don't like how it'd be used and don't like that people might be requesting more things from me". There's other issues, like how the lender could end up with an extra week's wait in breeding if the borrower decides to wait till the end of the lend deadline to breed, or the need for TJ to hash out things like "make dragon not count towards trophy" and "make sure dragon doesn't get glitched out on borrower's scroll", and the fact that it'd be a continuous gamble for the borrower if it's for any compensation whatsoever.

[Fuzzbucket]

2 minutes ago, Shadowdrake said:

Of course. I don't think any supporters or even fence-sitters on this suggestion ever said otherwise, since it's already been suggested ways suggested to manage the care and automatic return of dragons without higher input.

 

I fear some people do expect that....

 

2 minutes ago, Shadowdrake said:

 

Or, it could be either one-way lend or in exchange for eggs the borrower offers, like the rest of trading. (Actually that wouldn't be too terrible an idea for the lender; it'd remove any questions of "how many eggs do we generate in an inter-scroll breeding". On the other hand, it'd be a continuous gamble for the borrower unless the lender was nice enough to lend multiple times for free until they get the egg they need, which ends up falling into IOUs.)

 

Exchange for eggs is way better than shards. Closer to the current way of things.

 

2 minutes ago, Shadowdrake said:

Mind, I don't think this is a good idea, compared to alternatives, but I'm not going to shoot it down because "I don't like how it'd be used and don't like that people might be requesting more things from me". There's other issues, like how the lender could end up with an extra week's wait in breeding if the borrower decides to wait till the end of the lend deadline to breed, or the need for TJ to hash out things like "make dragon not count towards trophy" and "make sure dragon doesn't get glitched out on borrower's scroll", and the fact that it'd be a continuous gamble for the borrower if it's for any compensation whatsoever.

 

I don't like the idea at all - and I wouldn't take part. But the continuous gamble thing would mean that players would start to get angry when they didn't get the egg they expected/wanted and the like, would demand another shot for free because they didn't get what they wanted and and and. And would then try to get mods involved, as they still do sometimes over trades (there are threads; I got a 4 gen messy when what was in the hub said it was CB. Check the lineage first - and then they actuality say they DID but what they got when they clicked the teleport was something else. That actually can't happen in the hub, as you know - but there are still threads saying it did, and demanding that someone in admin get their egg back....

 

Can of worms, sorry.

[HeatherMarie]

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Or simply ask (nicely) one of us who breeds for free to breed it - much less effort. After all - if you ask to "borrow" a gold to get yourself one and it delivers a lihnseyre instead, you are no further ahead - a studding wasted. Better to ask for someone to breed you a gold in the first place. If I were asked to do that I'd stick with it till I got one.

 

 

Honestly, This. Like, I get maybe seeing something really pretty/valuable on someone else's scroll and wanting an offspring from it, but I'm really not sure I see any real benefit to a *stud* thing instead of just simply asking the user directly? I'm trying, and I can't personally come up with *any* dragon on my scroll that I would want sooo badly to breed with a dragon on someone *else's* scroll? Like, I just don't understand how such a huge new feature would bring *that* much more to the game? (Except in cases for Prize winners wanting to breed with another Prize winner's dragon, or those super-rare Honorable Mention dragons, but that really is a very small minority of the userbase...)

 

 

54 minutes ago, Shadowdrake said:

 

Mind, I don't think this is a good idea, compared to alternatives, but I'm not going to shoot it down because "I don't like how it'd be used and don't like that people might be requesting more things from me". There's other issues, like how the lender could end up with an extra week's wait in breeding if the borrower decides to wait till the end of the lend deadline to breed, or the need for TJ to hash out things like "make dragon not count towards trophy" and "make sure dragon doesn't get glitched out on borrower's scroll", and the fact that it'd be a continuous gamble for the borrower if it's for any compensation whatsoever.

 

All very good points. As for the 'not count towards trophy', that brings up another question: Should there be a limit to how *many* loaned 'studs' you could have on your scroll at once? I mean unless you are a super-dedicated constantly-online mega-breeder, I don't see any benefit in having like 10 or 15 'loaned' dragons on your scroll at once, especially since dragons in general can only breed once a week. 

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by HeatherMarie

[camelia2]

A very good ideia 'shut up' by ridiculous reasons.

Against it because we could have PB prize, holly, hybrids? What is wrong whith it?! Yes please!

 

In this precise moment I want it to be a thing so we (me+friend) could get a 3G SAkin that we can't otherwise. 

Breed an ofspring you say? That gets to a useless 4G for my plans. Really not a solution.

 

The best way I see it work:

- stud hub. Works just like trade hub.

You post your 'payment' eggs&hatchies, and request for stud with line X

(NO SHARDS. Stud only if you want->no one can force you just like no one can force you to trade. You see advertisement and you offer)

-uses a teleport just like the hub

-Celestial mechanic for teleported stud: after you accept stud, dragon is teleported to you. After you breed, the dragon returns automatically to the owner (like celestial becomes incorporeal) or if you fail to breed it within 7? days it automatically returns to owner (celestial incorporealise after 28d)

(Burning/hiatus of a scroll won't affect your dragon that will safely return to you after the 7d)

-only action available is BREED (your preciouns dragon can't be killed)

-you can't offer a dragon lended to you to stud for 3rd party

-you only get max 1 egg from stud breeding

 

-harassment DOESN'T exist on DC! On forum, maybe (though I still call it overreacting of some) you have no means to comunicate on DC.

Forum is not DC. You can have diffrent user, no link just as oposing Fuzz has

-multiscrolling. Why are we discussing this? Multiscrollers are instantly banned (some unfair as they're actually family and can't even contest it) you don't trust your mods?

-family breeding. Oh so you can interbreed with your friend, but just because someone lives in the same house they are a problem? Really?

-if your dragons are life-mated, don't offer them as studs...duh

-Fuzz, by your statements most people won't even know stud hub exists! (As they couldn't even find the encyclopedia) how would harassment be possible?

 

Recap: no harassment, no shards, no nominated asking, no forcing, no killing, no loosing a derg because of bann/hiatus, no payment (only trading)

PRO: those that want it have dreams come true, game enrichment, new posibilities like awesome PB holly and prize

Edited August 3, 2020 by camelia2

[purpledragonclaw]

1 hour ago, camelia2 said:

-harassment DOESN'T exist on DC! On forum, maybe (though I still call it overreacting of some) you have no means to comunicate on DC.

Forum is not DC. You can have diffrent user, no link just as oposing Fuzz has

-multiscrolling. Why are we discussing this? Multiscrollers are instantly banned (some unfair as they're actually family and can't even contest it) you don't trust your mods?

 

There is no "maybe" about harassment existing on the forums. Trust me, it exists. It can get very bad. Some members may honestly misconstrue someone asking for something bred from their scroll as harassment, because of language used, personal interpretation, language barriers, etc., but that doesn't mean harassment doesn't exist. It really bothers me to see that some don't believe that harassment is a real thing on the forums that members experience. It's real, and it can be terrible. Please understand this.

 

I don't know where you heard multiscrollers are instantly banned, but that's not true either. It's a real problem as well, and we don't catch all of them. 

 

 

[Cal-ifornia]

I don't support this idea, for many of the reasons listed. The biggest issue for me, however, are ways to ensure your dragon isn't bred with something you'd object to.

 

Say I have Gold A, and someone approaches me about breeding with Gold B. I approve of that, and the egg is "transferred" over for a week. What is to stop the other player from breeding Gold A with Gold C, his relative? I personally dislike inbred dragons, and would not want to contribute to more of them existing (not that there's anything wrong with players who like/keep inbreds). I would have had to check the other player's scroll to see that Gold C was even there.

 

With the current "Breed" action in the game, there would be no way to prevent this. Perhaps a new method could be coded, but I don't think it would be easy to do. There would already need to be several new systems to make sure dragons are returned to the original scroll after breeding vs. the stud staying on their scroll if breeding was unsuccessful, or to ensure that burned/inactive scrolls don't keep the stud forever, and it feels like a lot of work.

 

...plus I like that dragons are sentient. I don't think a studding system would fit with that. Even if we handwave it as setting dragons up on a date, currency(shards) was exchanged for the egg. That's extremely weird if we were just setting them up on a date.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Serotina

[HeatherMarie]

4 hours ago, purpledragonclaw said:

 

There is no "maybe" about harassment existing on the forums. Trust me, it exists. It can get very bad. Some members may honestly misconstrue someone asking for something bred from their scroll as harassment, because of language used, personal interpretation, language barriers, etc., but that doesn't mean harassment doesn't exist. It really bothers me to see that some don't believe that harassment is a real thing on the forums that members experience. It's real, and it can be terrible. Please understand this.

 

I don't know where you heard multiscrollers are instantly banned, but that's not true either. It's a real problem as well, and we don't catch all of them. 

 

 

 

Also, harassment doesn't necessarily mean *communication*. Yes, harassment most definitely exists on the forums, but if someone wants to say 'it can't exist on DC because there is no communication', um what is viewbombing if not harassment? Harassment doesn't have to be words.

Personally I feel it's rather insulting to insist that harassment doesn't/won't exist when it already *does* exist and multiple people have expressed concern about it. Like, I get that some people may not *personally* have experience with it, or think it's a big deal to *them*, but when talking about a possible new game feature it's not just about what you personally have experienced. Obviously harassment is an issue that needs to be addressed, because multiple people have expressed their concern about it... That *makes* it worth addressing, regardless if you personally think it's a big deal. (general 'you')

 

I'm still not sure I understand why actually *moving* the dragon to the other user's scroll would be necessary? I'm genuinely confused why something so complicated, that would have to have so many caveats and rules, would be better then simply allowing 'cross-breeding' by itself? What is the difference, what would this 'loaned stud' thing accomplish that couldn't be accomplished by the much more simple cross-breeding ideas? (And I say 'more simple' because imo they are definitely more simple, although they still have their own issues...)

[Fuzzbucket]

40 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

Also, harassment doesn't necessarily mean *communication*. Yes, harassment most definitely exists on the forums, but if someone wants to say 'it can't exist on DC because there is no communication', um what is viewbombing if not harassment? Harassment doesn't have to be words.

 

This, precisely. Don't give the angry player what they want and all of a sudden views shoot up.

 

40 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

Personally I feel it's rather insulting to insist that harassment doesn't/won't exist when it already *does* exist and multiple people have expressed concern about it. Like, I get that some people may not *personally* have experience with it, or think it's a big deal to *them*, but when talking about a possible new game feature it's not just about what you personally have experienced. Obviously harassment is an issue that needs to be addressed, because multiple people have expressed their concern about it... That *makes* it worth addressing, regardless if you personally think it's a big deal. (general 'you')

 

I'm still not sure I understand why actually *moving* the dragon to the other user's scroll would be necessary? I'm genuinely confused why something so complicated, that would have to have so many caveats and rules, would be better then simply allowing 'cross-breeding' by itself? What is the difference, what would this 'loaned stud' thing accomplish that couldn't be accomplished by the much more simple cross-breeding ideas? (And I say 'more simple' because imo they are definitely more simple, although they still have their own issues...)

 

Exactly this. If this can reasonably be done at all, it needs to be done without the dragon having to be moved. A piece of coding that says "HeatherMarie's Aqualis breeds with Fuzzbucket's Holly" (see what I did there ?  ) That also gets over the issue of the borrower breeding with something else.

 

@camelia2 If it is to happen through the hub, there would have to be a link to click to access it or there'd be no way to do it. So yes they'd see it. There is no direct generic link to the encyclopaedia which is part of the problem with it.

 

 

How else - without the forum and also without direct scroll to scroll communication, which can never happen, can people not on forum know it's an option ? and at that point - how do you choose a particular scroll whose dragon you want to breed yours with; the suggestion here is to ask a specific member to co-operate. that could only be on forum, because hub rules state:

 

 If creating a public trade, your message should be applicable to many people using the trading hub, not just a specific person.

 

This suggestion will inevitably rule out anyone not on forum; we CANNOT communicate between scrolls on the cave pages. If it were to be done on the hub, you'd have to do a want:

 

"Offer to breed my CB female Holly with a CB male holly"

 

and hope someone....

[Astreya]

While I would never want any< of my dragons to be loaned out to some other scroll (it took long enough to domesticate my bunch, I don't want to give them strange ideas about how other people keep them :P), one maybe might go about this slightly differently.

 

What about setting up some dragon with a BSA that allows to "collect sperm / unfertilised eggs" from another dragon, which then could be traded? That BSA could come with a random chance of success, and one would need to have a second BSA that then allows for the application of the traded goods (again with some random chance of success) to some other dragon?

[Varasse]

So... I do get the general idea but this needs to fleshed out, as others already have pointed out.

 

Is this about offering or requesting?

Will I be able to offer my CB something for stud on the hub?

Will I be able ask for a specific lineage like 3rd gen checker from this and that on the hub?

Will you be able to contact me via my scroll to request my CB something as a stud without me initiating/allowing it?

 

Prices, limitations, etc. etc.

 

I am not much of a breeder so I would not use it either way.

But I do understand the reasons of the No-sayers better than the reasons of the OP.

 

Astreya's idea might be nice. But this should probably discussed in a separate thread.

[Dohaerys]

8 hours ago, camelia2 said:

A very good ideia 'shut up' by ridiculous reasons.

Against it because we could have PB prize, holly, hybrids? What is wrong whith it?! Yes please!

 

In this precise moment I want it to be a thing so we (me+friend) could get a 3G SAkin that we can't otherwise. 

Breed an ofspring you say? That gets to a useless 4G for my plans. Really not a solution.

 

The best way I see it work:

- stud hub. Works just like trade hub.

You post your 'payment' eggs&hatchies, and request for stud with line X

(NO SHARDS. Stud only if you want->no one can force you just like no one can force you to trade. You see advertisement and you offer)

-uses a teleport just like the hub

-Celestial mechanic for teleported stud: after you accept stud, dragon is teleported to you. After you breed, the dragon returns automatically to the owner (like celestial becomes incorporeal) or if you fail to breed it within 7? days it automatically returns to owner (celestial incorporealise after 28d)

(Burning/hiatus of a scroll won't affect your dragon that will safely return to you after the 7d)

-only action available is BREED (your preciouns dragon can't be killed)

-you can't offer a dragon lended to you to stud for 3rd party

-you only get max 1 egg from stud breeding

 

-harassment DOESN'T exist on DC! On forum, maybe (though I still call it overreacting of some) you have no means to comunicate on DC.

Forum is not DC. You can have diffrent user, no link just as oposing Fuzz has

-multiscrolling. Why are we discussing this? Multiscrollers are instantly banned (some unfair as they're actually family and can't even contest it) you don't trust your mods?

-family breeding. Oh so you can interbreed with your friend, but just because someone lives in the same house they are a problem? Really?

-if your dragons are life-mated, don't offer them as studs...duh

-Fuzz, by your statements most people won't even know stud hub exists! (As they couldn't even find the encyclopedia) how would harassment be possible?

 

Recap: no harassment, no shards, no nominated asking, no forcing, no killing, no loosing a derg because of bann/hiatus, no payment (only trading)

PRO: those that want it have dreams come true, game enrichment, new posibilities like awesome PB holly and prize

I agree with  everything said above. A controlled 'stud hub' similar to the trade hub but for adult dragons where the dragon in question doesn't actually exchange  hands would be ideal and wouldn't have any of the harassment issues that people talk about 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, Astreya said:

While I would never want any< of my dragons to be loaned out to some other scroll (it took long enough to domesticate my bunch, I don't want to give them strange ideas about how other people keep them :P), one maybe might go about this slightly differently.

 

What about setting up some dragon with a BSA that allows to "collect sperm / unfertilised eggs" from another dragon, which then could be traded? That BSA could come with a random chance of success, and one would need to have a second BSA that then allows for the application of the traded goods (again with some random chance of success) to some other dragon?

 

That works MUCH better than any of the ideas thus far.

 

27 minutes ago, Dohaerys said:

I agree with  everything said above. A controlled 'stud hub' similar to the trade hub but for adult dragons where the dragon in question doesn't actually exchange  hands would be ideal and wouldn't have any of the harassment issues that people talk about 

 

 

Oh don't for one moment think that if you decline a request you aren't at risk of viewbombing,... But Astreya's idea would get round that - if you have to go to the hub to offer sperm, like.... only someone you co-operate with will know who you are; I HAVE been bombed for declining a trade, but only once. So far....

 

The only risk with Astreya's would be the other  party breeding your sperm/egg to a dragon you don't approve of. This wouldn't bother me (If I were taking part), but it would certainly bother some people - "happy to breed with your PB silver, but not with that messy Holly...."

 

Quote

Against it because we could have PB prize, holly, hybrids? What is wrong with it?! Yes please!

 

@camelia2 you can't influence CB Hollies; they will always be male. There are only about 20 CB females in existence - and several of those are on inactive scrolls. Just so you know and don't get your hopes up. The same goes for CB hybrids - I think there are even fewer of those.

[camelia2]

I know that very well Fuzz. I'm not a newbie.

That is exactly why 'breed an ofspring' is nonsense. I gave you theose examples brcause you gabe them 1st.

 

You keep getting it wrong...or reading it wrong, Idk. You don't OFFER to stud! You REQUEST a stud. This is why there is no harassment. 

You put up your 'payment' aka eggs/hatch and you say 'need stud CB F Holly'

If whoever has a CB F holly wants to offer, they do, if not they don't. Where is your harassment?! Is the same as a 2 way trade!

Where is 'applayable to many' part erased huh?

 

Viewing eggs is by no means harassment. There are only 6 hatchery you can go and get out of and you have fog. Is like saying people on the street looking at you is harassment. Are you ok?

 

In order to breed 2 things they have to be in physical contact. It's not telepathy. The dragons must be on the same scroll (and I allready solved all loosing issues with the 'celestial mechanic')

 

I have to add that we probably need a visual that a dragon is a lended stud. Paling maybe? Like when is not available to breed?

 

If you don't trust the player that it won't breed with something else, just don't offer to stud.

Just like if you don't want your egg killed/bitten you don't trade it.

Edited August 5, 2020 by LadyLyzar

[DragonLady86]

They don't have to be on the same scroll. If cross breeding was implemented coding to match someone else's dragon is the same if not far simpler than moving the dragon. It's not for us to decide which is easier to code, but I'd sure as heck perfer my dragons stay on my scroll, that eliminates half the issues with this suggestion. Honestly this is the only time I've seen this come up with the idea of a dragon physically moving between scrolls. It's always been more a date night thing: you decide what two dragons should breed then hit accept. Exactly as we do now except they are two different scrolls. I still wouldn't care for the idea, but I'd be far less opposed.

 

Also there are more than 6 hatcheries though viewbombers don't always use them. Placing them on a high traffic forum for instance. Were you here when EATW went down? That was truly the worst viewboming in history of the site. Most died in mere minutes and they weren't added to the other hatcheries. Yes that is an extreme example, but you can't deny it happened. Also a mod already told harrassment and multi scrolling are problems. Don't you trust our mods?

[Fuzzbucket]

On 8/3/2020 at 5:46 AM, camelia2 said:

I know that very well Fuzz. I'm not a newbie.

That is exactly why 'breed an ofspring' is nonsense. I gave you theose examples brcause you gabe them 1st.

 

I never for one moment mentioned a female holly till you did. Just saying - as you mentioned hollies and hybrids - that that really isn't likely to be a thing.

 

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You keep getting it wrong...or reading it wrong, Idk. You don't OFFER to stud! You REQUEST a stud. This is why there is no harassment. 

You put up your 'payment' aka eggs/hatch and you say 'need stud CB F Holly'

If whoever has a CB F holly wants to offer, they do, if not they don't. Where is your harassment?! Is the same as a 2 way trade!

 

That is exactly what I just suggested.  With a screenie of how to do it, yet. The original suggestion involved asking a scroll owner personally - and that can't work without the forum. You might, please, read my posts as well as suggesting that I haven't read yours, which I have.

 

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Where is 'applayable to many' part erased huh?

 

That "applicable to many" is in the trade rules for a public trade. Go to set one up and you'll see it.

 

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Viewing eggs is by no means harassment. There are only 6 hatchery you can go and get out of and you have fog. Is like saying people on the street looking at you is harassment. 

 

Viewbombing is a thing. There are far more than six hatcheries, and it can be done without one anyway. Yes you can fog - but one shouldn't actually have to. Clearly you never have been bombed - lucky you.

 

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In order to breed 2 things they have to be in physical contact. It's not telepathy. The dragons must be on the same scroll (and I allready solved all loosing issues with the 'celestial mechanic')

 

No they don't - it could easily be done with code, if TJ wanted to - and Astreya came up with a brilliant solution to that anyway. (if you NEED it to be "real life" think IVF.)

 

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I have to add that we probably need a visual that a dragon is a lended stud. Paling maybe? Like when is not available to breed?

 

If you don't trust the player that it won't breed with something else, just don't offer to stud.

Just like if you don't want your egg killed/bitten you don't trade it.

 

If you are trading on the hub, you have no idea about most of the people you would trade with. I don't care; as I said; I wouldn't ever use this,; if I did, I wouldn't care which dragon was bred with mine -   but Astreya's solution could get around this for people who were fussy about who their dragon is bred with and would make it more inclusive. If you actually read my last couple of posts you would see that I was offering ways to make this work for as many people as possible - and I have done that even though I am not at all interested for myself. You seem determined that it can only be made to work the way you would like it to work. Others who have reservations about that - including me - are trying to find a way that will make it possible for as many people as possible to use. I'm sorry you can't see that my suggestions are for making it work as well as it can, not for stopping it happening.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by LadyLyzar

[camelia2]

2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I never for one moment mentioned a female holly till you did. Just saying - as you mentioned hollies and hybrids - that that really isn't likely to be a thing.

 

 

That is exactly what I just suggested.  With a screenie of how to do it, yet. The original suggestion involved asking a scroll owner personally - and that can't work without the forum. You might, please, read my posts as well as suggesting that I haven't read yours, which I have.

 

 

That "applicable to many" is in the trade rules for a public trade. Go to set one up and you'll see it.

 

 

Viewbombing is a thing. There are far more than six hatcheries, and it can be done without one anyway. Yes you can fog - but one shouldn't actually have to. Clearly you never have been bombed - lucky you.

 

 

I have no idea what you mean but I haven't even mentioned multiscrolling. I didn't insist on knowing anything.

 

 

No they don't - it could easily be done with code, if TJ wanted to - and Astreya came up with a brilliant solution to that anyway. (if you NEED it to be "real life" think IVF.)

 

 

If you are trading on the hub, you have no idea about most of the people you would trade with. I don't care; as I said; I wouldn't ever use this,; if I did, I wouldn't care which dragon was bred with mine -   but Astreya's solution could get around this for people who were fussy about who their dragon is bred with and would make it more inclusive. If you actually read my last couple of posts you would see that I was offering ways to make this work for as many people as possible - and I have done that even though I am not at all interested for myself. You seem determined that it can only be made to work the way you would like it to work. Others who have reservations about that - including me - are trying to find a way that will make it possible for as many people as possible to use. I'm sorry you can't see that my suggestions are for making it work as well as it can, not for stopping it happening.

 

 

1. My bad, it was Olimpe who 1st mentioned CB holly 'Let's get someone to stud out their CB holly so an HM female holly owner can breed PB hollies... Or something along those lines. Also works well with CB prizes, CB hybrids/alts, CB Spriters' alts, 2nd gen Thuweds and the like'

(Then you felt the urge to tell me it won't happen)

2.no. you showed a visual of OFFERING to stud. No! You REQUEST the stud. Is not the same thing.

I actually suggested it 4 posts above you.

We are not talking about the OP anymore. The discussion went forward and many problems you bring are allready 'solved'

3.I know where that line is! I asked you how is it erased?!

'the suggestion here is to ask a specific member to co-operate. that could only be on forum, because hub rules state:

If creating a public trade, your message should be applicable to many people using the trading hub, not just a specific person.

 

This suggestion will inevitably rule out anyone not on forum; '

4.fog is still there to use. If shouldn't have, it wouldn't be there. And no I wasn't because no one can bomb you if you use the means you've been given

5.that wasn't meant for you but for the mod above. (Hence I decided to number this)

6.It eas never about the code behind but IRL. I'd love to see how you mate 2 dogs without contact XD.

IVF is part of the modern world, from wich DC clearly distanced from. Either in D.suggestion or describe there is the clear instruction to not bring robots or tech to DC.

I also find this taking 'dignity' away (as someone said) from our dragons. IVF is basically rape. Collecting sperm from dragons? Yuck

7.why make it more inclusive than trading is? Your egg can be killed by a tradee. Your stud might get breed with something else. Is a 'risk' you take.

If you are not going to use this anyway, why don't you let those that will decide the risk they're willing to take?

8.how can't you see you're biased toward the gideia from the moment you sugessted it will create more harassment than the trading hub? And keep saying you need contact when you can have a hub just like for trading?

I'm comitted to make the ideia sound logical (not contact-less) not implying fancy tech lore (IVF) and on a 'if yo want do, if you don't want don't'

 

Oh, DragonLady, the mod said nothing about view bombing, nor called it harassment. I trust mods. They sayd harassment is on the forum. DC is not the Forum. You still can't be harassed on DC

 

OP could maybe be edited to show everyone we solved the problems and allow them to come with 'new' ones instead of the 'dragon killed' that has been solved allready? @borntobefree

Edited August 3, 2020 by camelia2

[Fuzzbucket]

56 minutes ago, camelia2 said:

1. My bad, it was Olimpe who 1st mentioned CB holly 'Let's get someone to stud out their CB holly so an HM female holly owner can breed PB hollies... Or something along those lines. Also works well with CB prizes, CB hybrids/alts, CB Spriters' alts, 2nd gen Thuweds and the like'

(Then you felt the urge to tell me it won't happen)

2.no. you showed a visual of OFFERING to stud. No! You REQUEST the stud. Is not the same thing.

I actually suggested it 4 posts above you.

 

You can't go to the hub to ASK; you have to offer something.

 

56 minutes ago, camelia2 said:

We are not talking about the OP anymore. The discussion went forward and many problems you bring are allready 'solved'

3.I know where that line is! I asked you how is it erased?!

 

I don't know what you mean, then. It isn't erased anywhere - I quoted it from where it is.

 

56 minutes ago, camelia2 said:

'the suggestion here is to ask a specific member to co-operate. that could only be on forum, because hub rules state:

If creating a public trade, your message should be applicable to many people using the trading hub, not just a specific person.

 

This suggestion will inevitably rule out anyone not on forum; '

 

Exactly. I hoped to find a way to make it possible for everyone to join in,

 

56 minutes ago, camelia2 said:

4.fog is still there to use. If shouldn't have, it wouldn't be there. And no I wasn't because no one can bomb you if you use the means you've been given

You shouldn't be FORCED to use fog because someone is out to get you. There are many uses for it other than avoiding being bombed.

 

56 minutes ago, camelia2 said:

6.It eas never about the code behind but IRL. I'd love to see how you mate 2 dogs without contact XD.

IVF is part of the modern world, from wich DC clearly distanced from. Either in D.suggestion or describe there is the clear instruction to not bring robots or tech to DC.

I also find this taking 'dignity' away (as someone said) from our dragons. IVF is basically rape. Collecting sperm from dragons? Yuck

 

Offering up your dragons for breeding by someone they never met isn't that far from rape. (and before you say it, I rather dislike putting horses out to stud too, but at least they can't be forced to mate ! This suggestion is for forced breeding determined not by the dragon by by its owner; that IS rape, really, if you want to bring rape into it.

 

56 minutes ago, camelia2 said:

7.why make it more inclusive than trading is? Your egg can be killed by a tradee. Your stud might get breed with something else. Is a 'risk' you take.

If you are not going to use this anyway, why don't you let those that will decide the risk they're willing to take?

8.how can't you see you're biased toward the gideia from the moment you sugessted it will create more harassment than the trading hub? And keep saying you need contact when you can have a hub just like for trading?

 

And in a hub you have to offer something. Sure I don't like this idea, but I am all for helping people who want to make changes to the game - even in ways I'm not happy with - to make those changes in the way that will work best and for the greatest number of people. Just as many who were very much against teleport helped by suggesting how it could best work.

 

56 minutes ago, camelia2 said:

Oh, DragonLady, the mod said nothing about view bombing, nor called it harassment. I trust mods. They sayd harassment is on the forum. DC is not the Forum. You still can't be harassed on DC

 

You will not find a mod who will tell you bombing (which is in DC) is not harassment or one who will deny that it is a problem. There was even a whole discord group set up to run  systematic bombing at one point. And the EATW thing was just awful.