Loan out to stud

[borntobefree]

We are after all breeding, these dragons, like with many other animal species high quality specimens often have a stud fee and are loaned out to other stables for breeding purposes, from dogs cats cattle to horses, camels and elephants, snakes....I'd like to see shards for breeding rights, a temp transfer sort of that allows someone to transfer a dragon to someone else for a week period or even a month or so, its a temp transfer and automatically transfers back to your scroll when the times up.

 

Like say i have a specific dragon I would love to have breed with someone else's derg, best we could do now is both breed an offspring and trade that, but what I'd really like is to breed them to each other, for a fee or maybe a bsa or something from market could loan out your dragon as a stud.

[purplehaze]

There have been quite a few requests over the years for the ability to breed between scrolls. I like this one better than the others, but it still comes with a lot of the same problems.

 

The main downside is that it would inevitably lead to a lot of unwelcome requests. Perhaps that could be minimized by setting a high enough shard price.

Also, your dragon would need to be protected from any other actions than breeding while on the other scroll -- no releasing or killing.

Edited August 1, 2020 by purplehaze

[borntobefree]

You are gonna get request either way, its not really gonna change, whats the difference between contacting someone for a second gen egg and requesting a stud fee, you don't want request hide your scroll. Its not like they knock on your door its a pm message just delete, and as usual if someones being abusive report that immediately.Other than that the complaint about being contacted is ridiculous.

[borntobefree]

High fees or even it being locked up for a while, something like you only get one shot at it but its stuck on the other persons scroll for 2 weeks, if they want a second shot they have to wait 2 weeks until its back on the owners scroll and then they have to pay again.

[RainDear]

No thank you. 

[Fuzzbucket]

No thank you and then some.

 

This has been discussed over and over and every time, IIRC, the only person in the thread who was in favour was the person who started the thread. And don't forget that there can be no direct communication between scrolls; anything would have to be on forum. This I am very glad of - I never want to be contacted through my scroll. Nothing would include me to lend my creatures to another scroll, either. Not even purple or rain, both here in this thread, both of whom I have "known" for years now.

 

And if you have never been harassed to breed, borntobefree, you are very lucky.

[borntobefree]

I've been contacted, but contacted and harassed are two different things, also I don't mind breeding anything for anyone who asks for it, otherwise whats the point to the game. Also like the trading hub it does not have to be a direct contact, have  ads for needing a stud, must be X, Y and Z, for my , name derg here, with maybe a view of that dragons page. It would be a set amount for the "ad" kind of like the hub, and then matching the set off. Have decline or re-offer as the options. See, there's no need for contact. Although if you don't want to be able to be contacted why would you have such a busy forum account, you'd think other than reading the news you'd be hiding from the fretful being cold contacted.

 

Also if this has been put forward more than once then there are more people who want this to happen other than just one. heck the first person who commented here said they liked the idea. so that's two people of 4 so far. Also people have a tendency to be shot down hard here because of a few vocal commenters who comment all the time, so no wonder people post then never come back here, because those who think they are writers don;t seem able to write nicely, and while each word may be proper, the "tone" definitely is not.

 

I seriously don't know why these suggestion threads have to be SO ADVERSARIAL. The reputation of the forum is horrid.

 

Also the it's never been allowed before reason is ridiculous as well as an argument against such a suggestion, if you can't offer an actual reason just watch the thread for real discussion.

[Fuzzbucket]

I am contacted frequently on forum, and I will breed for free; I do it all the time. I don't want contact through my scroll. The hub MIGHT work as a way to organise this, but your original post suggested that there was a particular dragon of someone else's you wanted to breed with. We may not ask for specific dragons in the hub as things stand, I think (there were people in trouble for that a little while ago) so I don't see how that could work.

 

Harassment is something quite different. When you have been asked - for instance -  to breed ALL your prize dragons, (I have over 300) but "not any from CBs that I already have on my scroll"; when you get PMs saying "why haven't you bred MY dragons I asked for yet ?" - it's enough to put you off breeding for good. That second one was in the days when you could email other members; when I blocked the guy he started emailing me several times a day. From several email addresses. That's what I mean by harassment.

 

But I still think it is far too risky to send a dragon to another scroll, even temporarily.

 

Adversarial. I disagree with you - that's debate.  But I am not the one using capital letters to shout.

[Paintra]

I like this suggestion, and I think it's a good idea in general, but I'm not sure it's a good fit for Dragon Cave. Since this game locks adults in place, it would be something completely new (but something relatively simple for a site like Magistream or TFO, where trading adults is allowed). If that makes sense? I'm not sure if TJ would realisticly want to implement something that would change the breeding so drastically, but I also thought that about rereleasing old CB Holidays, so there's always a chance!

[borntobefree]

Capital letters is not just shouting, its also for emphasis. and shouting is secondary. Full capitalization is used for many thing, titles, emphasis, display. Its in context for how its used,it goes along with the whole tone thing.

 

Also yes you can do it the other way around as well. Or like many of use we discuss breeding with those in forums and discord. You'd be able to title it for someone else to find it. Also some people are not easily found and while they have no issue with breeding for someone, they might not be able to be contacted, so this would also be easy to find. its not like you have to go look at the ads, so even if someone is requesting a specific dragon, if the owner doesn't see it , then it doesn't matter how often they post for it, and again hardly harassment after all they are using shards to place the ad, lol. but harassment aside, because there is no contact between scrolls temporarily having someones dragon, really wouldn't do anything, maybe keep things like kill freeze abandon locked, and only breed available.Don't see anything else dangerous for it being at someone elses scroll.

 

Not sure what that guys issue was, if you had a schedule laid out for when how often and such about breeding then, other than you not doing your side of the trade/breeding then I agree he was being an ass, and yes I'd call it harassment, but to many people here consider just blindly emailing someone with a request as harassment, and its not, if they say no and you don't contact them again except to say thanks anyway, then that's ok.

[HeatherMarie]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Adversarial. I disagree with you - that's debate.

 

I've been here a loooong time and I have to say, when it comes to Suggestion threads the only cries of 'adversarial', unfair, unwelcoming, hostile, etc etc I ever see are from OPs, ie people that just don't like their ideas being shot down (shot down for perfectly valid reasons I might add). 

 

This game has changed a *lot* over the years, but sometimes the reception to certain suggestions just doesn't change. Suggestions to 'fight' our dragons, for example, are almost universally shot down over and over. Same with this. Personally I see *so* many downsides to the whole 'stud' idea that honestly I feel this is the worst possible way of 'cross-scroll breeding'. I'm not all too supportive of that whole idea to begin with, for many different reasons, but adding 'fees' and actually *transferring* dragons between scrolls makes it even more of a 'no way' for me. There are simply too many downsides and caveats and concerns that come with such a huge change 

- Why the *transfer*, why would you have to *give* another user your dragon for awhile in order to breed between scrolls? That's just not necessary at all, imo. There are better ways, if cross-scroll breeding is what is wanted. 

- As purplehaze mentioned there would *have* to be hard limits on what can be done to your dragon, ie *just* breeding and no other actions at all. 

- Harassment *is* an issue, whether people want to admit it or not. Yes, there is a difference between 'contacting' and harassing', and *both* are already issues for many people. And the assumption that playing/being active means wanting to be contacted or not minding being contacted is simply a horrible assumption to work on. It's just not true. 

- Just because a suggestion is brought up multiple times doesn't automatically mean it's a *good* suggestion for *DC*. Some other games do 'stud' services very well, that doesn't mean it would be a positive addition to *this* game. That's something people often seem to forget, just because some might *want* something doesn't necessarily mean it'd actually be a good thing for the userbase as a whole. 

[borntobefree]

I actually had an idea to have a time limit on dragons, you know pets do not live forever, they do die, they should implement a life span, if we really wanted to be realistic. Then you would definitely want to breed not just have tons of dergs on your scroll. would make breeding lineages on everything more desirable, then i would definitely want to have my Xerxes loaned out.

[Stormcaller]

I'm against the suggestion too.  Somehow the idea seems a bit too crude.  I prefer to give my creatures a bit of dignity when it comes to breeding.  

[RainDear]

My opinion. Just my opinion. Not intending to speak for anyone else.

 

Some of the reasons I can see that makes this idea desirable to some, are also reasons to not want it. One of the first things some would want is purebred 2g Prize dragons. There are few members with CB prizes and some have already left over harassment about breeding them. This would make that problem worse for many Prize owners.

 

Some members life-bond their dragons.

 

I breed (with few reservations) for free. I always have. I received few harassing requests, but I have received them. My dragons are mine. They breed with one another but not outside my scroll/control.

 

My vote remains "no". . 

Edited August 1, 2020 by RainDear

[HeatherMarie]

4 minutes ago, borntobefree said:

I actually had an idea to have a time limit on dragons, you know pets do not live forever, they do die, they should implement a life span, if we really wanted to be realistic. Then you would definitely want to breed not just have tons of dergs on your scroll. would make breeding lineages on everything more desirable, then i would definitely want to have my Xerxes loaned out.

 

So.... You want to put limits on dragon's lives in order to push people to breed and not 'just' collect? Yeah, doubt that would go over too well!

 

Now I'm starting to feel like this is more of a 'I want access to other's dragons because they aren't breeding/playing right' thing, which again isn't going to go over well. No one *needs* to breed, period. No one needs to play a certain way because of what someone else thinks. I sure as heck wouldn't be 'loaning' my dragons out even if they only lived a short while. And I'm not really seeing anything mentioned in this thread so far that would change that, that would make the idea more inviting. 

[borntobefree]

3 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

I've been here a loooong time and I have to say, when it comes to Suggestion threads the only cries of 'adversarial', unfair, unwelcoming, hostile, etc etc I ever see are from OPs, ie people that just don't like their ideas being shot down (shot down for perfectly valid reasons I might add). 

 

This game has changed a *lot* over the years, but sometimes the reception to certain suggestions just doesn't change. Suggestions to 'fight' our dragons, for example, are almost universally shot down over and over. Same with this. Personally I see *so* many downsides to the whole 'stud' idea that honestly I feel this is the worst possible way of 'cross-scroll breeding'. I'm not all too supportive of that whole idea to begin with, for many different reasons, but adding 'fees' and actually *transferring* dragons between scrolls makes it even more of a 'no way' for me. There are simply too many downsides and caveats and concerns that come with such a huge change 

- Why the *transfer*, why would you have to *give* another user your dragon for awhile in order to breed between scrolls? That's just not necessary at all, imo. There are better ways, if cross-scroll breeding is what is wanted. 

- As purplehaze mentioned there would *have* to be hard limits on what can be done to your dragon, ie *just* breeding and no other actions at all. 

- Harassment *is* an issue, whether people want to admit it or not. Yes, there is a difference between 'contacting' and harassing', and *both* are already issues for many people. And the assumption that playing/being active means wanting to be contacted or not minding being contacted is simply a horrible assumption to work on. It's just not true. 

- Just because a suggestion is brought up multiple times doesn't automatically mean it's a *good* suggestion for *DC*. Some other games do 'stud' services very well, that doesn't mean it would be a positive addition to *this* game. That's something people often seem to forget, just because some might *want* something doesn't necessarily mean it'd actually be a good thing for the userbase as a whole. 

-no I see that adversarial attitude on almost all suggestion threads, its usually the same culprits committing the abuse but they seldom notice it. I don't mind my suggestions not being taken, but "shot down" is different, even the fact you used it instead of saying simply not taken is rather pointed.

-omg people have suggested dragon fighting?wow!

-if not a transfer of the single dragon to be studded, how else would be a better version of cross scroll breeding?I was keeping studding as a real world equivalent.

-I totally agree on hard limits on whats allowed with the loaned dragon, a loaned dragon would have to have only breeding as the available option.

-playing and being active on the game is not the same as being active here in forums, also a single cold contact email is nothing something to be upset about, seriously that's an individuals issue. Yes harassment is a real thing, and something you should take to a mod, It is a thing but not as significant as people try to make it out. There is no way to stop being contacted at all if you are on the forums, only sure way is to not be on them. Otherwise the mods are here for a reason, so if you are experiencing harassment reach out to them. Using it as an excuse of something that might happen is not a valid argument against.

-Just because something is shot down, does not mean its going to be a negative addition to the game, again if you don't want to do something in the game then by all means do not do it, no one is going to force you to stud out a prize or your upside down mint, or the really cool code to go with your really cool code. ie would love to find someone with a paul code for my blart code!!lol

[Fuzzbucket]

18 minutes ago, borntobefree said:

 

Not sure what that guys issue was, if you had a schedule laid out for when how often and such about breeding then, other than you not doing your side of the trade/breeding then I agree he was being an ass, and yes I'd call it harassment, but to many people here consider just blindly emailing someone with a request as harassment, and its not, if they say no and you don't contact them again except to say thanks anyway, then that's ok.

 

I don't have to have a schedule; people can ask. But they do NOT get to ask me to breed over 300 dragons just like that, never mind expecting me go through theirs to see if one of mine is suitable That's down to the person asking, not to me.

 

6 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

So.... You want to put limits on dragon's lives in order to push people to breed and not 'just' collect? Yeah, doubt that would go over too well!

 

Now I'm starting to feel like this is more of a 'I want access to other's dragons because they aren't breeding/playing right' thing, which again isn't going to go over well. No one *needs* to breed, period. No one needs to play a certain way because of what someone else thinks. I sure as heck wouldn't be 'loaning' my dragons out even if they only lived a short while. And I'm not really seeing anything mentioned in this thread so far that would change that, that would make the idea more inviting. 

 

I agree with Heather here. Especially the idea that adults should die. What possible reason is there for that ?

[purplehaze]

50 minutes ago, borntobefree said:

heck the first person who commented here said they liked the idea.

If you mean me, you are misinterpreting what I said. I said I liked it better than other such ideas that had been posted. That doesn't mean I like it or would use it or want others to ask for my dragons as studs.

I am more than happy to breed anything on my scroll if I am asked politely, but allowing one of my dragons to breed with someone else's dragon is an entirely different matter.

I am still concerned over unwelcome requests, or perhaps I should say demands. But you dismiss that as "ridiculous".

Now you seem to be saying that if we don't want to be contacted about this sort of thing we should hide our scrolls and not be active on the forum. That is totally unfair and unrealistic. There are a lot of reasons that I choose not to hide my scroll and I get a great deal of enjoyment from participating on the forum.

[borntobefree]

8 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

So.... You want to put limits on dragon's lives in order to push people to breed and not 'just' collect? Yeah, doubt that would go over too well!

 

Now I'm starting to feel like this is more of a 'I want access to other's dragons because they aren't breeding/playing right' thing, which again isn't going to go over well. No one *needs* to breed, period. No one needs to play a certain way because of what someone else thinks. I sure as heck wouldn't be 'loaning' my dragons out even if they only lived a short while. And I'm not really seeing anything mentioned in this thread so far that would change that, that would make the idea more inviting. 

oh absolutely not, theres a segment who've argued against suggestions before because they weren't really real world acceptable, that was sort of an aside, if you really wanted to be real world you'd put life spans on them,(I do NOT agree with life spans) and dude i have over 2 k cb dragons and i only collect them, lineages aren't actually my thing, unless it's a second or 3rd gen pb. and you are 100% correct no one has to breed there dragons! I'd be fine loaning out a few of my dragons, but I also have some I wouldn't loan out. but like you said no one has to breed there dragons at all, but for those who want to they should be able to. I only toyed with the idea for lifespans, when someone usually points out real world feasibility. omg could you imagine loosing your prize?!gosh no!

 

I actually have a few 2nd gen pb prizes, there are many people with not only one or two but 3 and 4 prizes, If i could loan my prize, which has naming restrictions to someone else who only has one, we could both get a second gen of our prize dragon if we wanted too. I know about 12 other prize winners who'd love to be able to cross scroll breed.Again, no one could force you to stud out your dragon, and if you'd rather not stud out or receive the serverses of a studded dragon, why stop others who want to be able to stud out there dragons or receive the serves of a stud. Could be a way to also make more shards for the market. Stud fees for some thoroughbreds can be high, as well as for some *****es, and queens, as well as loaning out rare exotics to breeders, like our snakes.

[Fuzzbucket]

In the real world (assuming that world had dragons)  - as it says here - dragons live for hundreds of years. As we raise them from eggs, I really can't see anyone here outliving their scroll....

[borntobefree]

I'm am saying that just being contacted is not harassment and calling it that is ridiculous. No ifs and's or buts on that. Being contacted repeatedly when told not to, being asked repeatedly for something and that whole 300 prize dragon massbred, like wth is that about? lol Those are two different things, trying to lump them together is wrong, and trying to make my answer about it lumped together is wrong as well, and honestly if you want 0 emails and messages then yes log on as hidden, and never go to your inbox.There is a point where you have to interact with people when you sign up for a site where you are supposed to interact with others. If you do not want to interact then yes do not have a forum account, you can come on and browse news and such without logging in. Just being cold contacted about a breeding or what ever does not equate to harassment, stop lumping it together. If you are already getting harassed then this suggestion really isn't going to change that. Mods are here for a reason use them. People who harass need to be banned, that's just simple. Same thing here, if you trade on hub then you shouldn't have an issue with something very hub like.

 

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

In the real world (assuming that world had dragons)  - as it says here - dragons live for hundreds of years. As we raise them from eggs, I really can't see anyone here outliving their scroll....

hahah true

 

btw, What was that other way to breed between scrolls which is better than studding out? Really curious about that.

Edited August 1, 2020 by purpledragonclaw
Editing triple posts into one post.

[Fuzzbucket]

4 minutes ago, borntobefree said:

There is a point where you have to interact with people when you sign up for a site where you are supposed to interact with others. 

 

Yes, on forum. There is no actual interaction on scrolls. And this suggestion would mean players had to communicate at the very least through the hub.

 

Quote

btw, What was that other way to breed between scrolls which is better than studding out? Really curious about that.

 

IIRC pretty much like a date, with the dragons staying on their own scrolls. No-one could really figure out how it could work.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[olympe]

This suggestion. Not again...

 

Thanks, but no thanks!

 

ETA to explain my opinion:

• There is no adult trading on DC. And I don't think we should get an exception for inter-scroll breeding.
• Imagine you send out your [insert very valuable dragon of choice] to someone you trust, and suddenly, they go on hiatus. Or worse, get their scroll burned. And you lose your very valuable dragon. Oops.
  • Unless, of course, the stud service is offered without transferring the dragon to another scroll by just popping up on the breeding page of the recipient.
• This would invariably give an additional advantage to multi-scrollers or people playing as a family. Let's get someone to stud out their CB holly so an HM female holly owner can breed PB hollies... Or something along those lines. Also works well with CB prizes, CB hybrids/alts, CB Spriters' alts, 2nd gen Thuweds and the like. (Ouch.)
• Harrassment and unwanted contact are issues. (And I say that as someone who, despite offering to breed for free, never got harrassed about it. I hardly get any PMs asking for a breeding.)
  • Of course, this could be mitigated by a variant of the trading hub. Stud hub? However, who would offer their most valuable dragons as studs?
  • Unless you want to offer stud service for free, what would you ask for in exchange? 
    • No shards, please. Because shards aren't meant to be traded between scrolls, and for a good reason. (See point about multi-scrollers. Collect shards on 100 scrolls, then transfer them to your main account by asking for ridiculous fees for your studs that you will accept with your extra scrolls.)
    • A different stud? Would that even work?
  • How much effort would you have to go through in order to offer your dragons for stud service?

Edited August 1, 2020 by olympe

[Fuzzbucket]

Here you go - one of the threads which contains links to two more. There have been many more over the years.

 

ETA Oops....

 

I got carried away reading it !

 

@olympe

 

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[olympe]

@Fuzzbucket I don't see no link nowhere...