On-site Hatchery

[TJ09]

On 4/6/2018 at 8:02 AM, olympe said:

Well, I'm most assuredly not a coder, and I dare say that most of us who're discussing this aren't, either. I'd really like to see someone with actual experience weigh in and share some insights so we non-coders can get an idea of what's possible, what's likely and what's just rumor-mongering. So, any help on that front, @TJ09?

 

No, I don't see any direct link between an on-site hatchery and DoS-ing. There's no property inherent to hatcheries that would make it more susceptible to a DoS. The end goal there is flooding the target server with traffic, which doesn't require a hatchery or anything special. An on-site hatchery would probably require being logged in anyways, which makes it all the more easier to cut off if someone's doing bad things, though that shouldn't be necessary. There's also no particular ties with the API. When EATW was being flooded, I shut off API access to stop people from unknowingly adding their dragons there.

 

The API can be used for things other than hatcheries (the entire reason I created the records site was to show that), so there's also no connection between a hatchery and retiring it.

[Keileon]

This got linked in another thread, so I'm stopping by to bump and voice my enthusiastic support.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I've wondered why this hasn't been asked for more. We finally got on site trading hub, so I think an on site hatchery would also be beneficial. It is very true that forums, and playing this game the way it was originally intended, really are not a thing anymore, so I think it makes sense for the site to start supporting itself more.

[Jazeki]

I thought I posted support before, but I hadn't. So I'm throwing it in now. I love and use the hatcheries we have now, but wouldn't mind if DC actually had one of its own. It would make raising dragons that much easier.

[osean]

I support 

[olympe]

On 4/7/2018 at 5:47 AM, HeatherMarie said:

 

Multiple people in this thread brought up the idea of an on-site hatchery being the *only* hatchery, olympe mentioned it on page 1 (though it doesn't seem they actually want it that way) and on page 2 Alrexwolf posts at length about an on-site 'exclusive' hatchery (they said ' you could ONLY display your hatchies/eggs there') and how it would fix viewbombing. That's why it's being discussed, because it seems that some people may *want* it to be that way, while some of us don't. Of course it's not the definite outcome, but when people mention a way that it could be implemented that many of us are very much against, it's natural that it's going to be talked about. (And cutting off the API would most likely be the way that an on-site hatchery would be made 'exclusive'.)

 

Ineed. If an on-site hatchery is supposed to prevent viewbombing, the API would have to be cut for all other hatcheries, or viewbombing through other hatcheries could still happen. But, even if the other hatcheries get put down, there're still click-exchange sites like Yarold's which could be abused for viewbombing. It'd (probably) be a bit harder to do than with a normal hatchery, but it doesn't seem much of a hurdle.

 

But, on the other hand, TJ could (and probably would) put in checks to avoid direct viewbombing attacks on the on-site hatchery, so things will be that much safer. The trouble is that it will still deprive us of options - and there are quite some useful tools on a number of hatcheries - like inbred checkers, lineage preview, auto-refreshers... You get the idea.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

In my first post I state that one of the main components to this on-site hatchery would be that you could only put your own eggs on it. Just like you can only put your own eggs up for trade, you can only put your own eggs in the hatchery - nobody else’s.

 

Another point I made is that it’d still be possible if your scroll is locked. I have no idea if that could actually work: can you still trade your things on the trading hub if your scroll is hidden? And can you still view an egg if you have its link even if the scroll is hidden? I don’t know the answer to those questions, but if the answer to either of them is yes then I feel like this should be possible with an on-site hatchery. While this may not completely stop viewbombing, it’d still be something, because you could hide your scroll but still have them collect views through the hatchery. But I think we’d need TJ’s input on whether that would be possible.

 

Either way, I still want it even if it doesn’t stop viewbombing. Lol

[Moonwick]

I like this idea in general and I'm just here to throw in my support. It just feels like a good thing to have.

[tjekan]

I don't really understand why it's possible to kill eggs with viewbombing attacks in the first place if it's not supposed to be part of the game. Why not just have an egg that gets soft-shell automatically fog? That would do just as much to force players to log in and tend their eggs as threatening them with death would, and be non-manipulable by viewbombers.

[TJ09]

Another "what if, but:" Would this still be acceptable if it were scaled such that eggs didn't get enough views to hatch until after ~6 days (i.e. one day left)? That would pretty much guarantee that an egg only in the one hatchery can't get sick.

[Keileon]

If it was scaled like that I'm not sure anyone would use the hatchery at that point, unless they were going for purple Siyats.

 

Edit:
Or Neglecteds.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Keileon

[purplehaze]

Some people might use it anyway, but I don't see many people using it as their only hatchery, which sort of negates any safety benefit it might have.

 

I certainly wouldn't find it acceptable to wait 6 days to hatch an egg that could otherwise hatch in only two days.

[HeatherMarie]

22 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

Another "what if, but:" Would this still be acceptable if it were scaled such that eggs didn't get enough views to hatch until after ~6 days (i.e. one day left)? That would pretty much guarantee that an egg only in the one hatchery can't get sick.

 

I'm honestly not certain what you mean by 'this', but if you are talking about an exclusive on-site hatchery.... No. Actually, no regardless. I do *not* want to wait 6 days for every single egg to hatch! That would be horrible!! I'm really not sure at all what benefit that could possibly have beyond 'won't get sick as easily' or something. I'm one of those people who use Incubate on literally every egg I get, even AP eggs with less then 5 days. I would haaaaate to wait 6 days every single time I get an egg, that would honestly just destroy the entire game for me. I *like* being able to hatch eggs quickly, especially because I freeze a lot. I can't even imagine how frustrating it would be to wait that long just to get a hatchling to freeze!

[TJ09]

11 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

I'm honestly not certain what you mean by 'this', but if you are talking about an exclusive on-site hatchery.... No. Actually, no regardless. I do *not* want to wait 6 days for every single egg to hatch! That would be horrible!! I'm really not sure at all what benefit that could possibly have beyond 'won't get sick as easily' or something. I'm one of those people who use Incubate on literally every egg I get, even AP eggs with less then 5 days. I would haaaaate to wait 6 days every single time I get an egg, that would honestly just destroy the entire game for me. I *like* being able to hatch eggs quickly, especially because I freeze a lot. I can't even imagine how frustrating it would be to wait that long just to get a hatchling to freeze!

 

No, an on-site hatchery would not be exclusive whatsoever. In fact, that's half of the point of the time limitation--you can use it as a failsafe for last-minute egg views, and newer players who don't quite know where to do can do it, but anyone who knows what they're doing and wants faster hatching wouldn't use it exclusively

 

I don't expect that a built-in hatchery would replace the need to go off-site, at least at first. That would be a huge jump to try to make all at once.

[Jazeki]

Please no scaling views. Certainly, the extra wait time to hatch would be a deterrent for me and I support this suggestion regardless of viewbombing. It almost seems like a penalty for deciding to use an on-site hatchery instead of a fan site.

[osmarks]

Also, deliberately scaling view count to avoid sickness and stuff seems kind of hypocritical given that apparently fansites aren't allowed to.

[Fuzzbucket]

5 hours ago, TJ09 said:

Another "what if, but:" Would this still be acceptable if it were scaled such that eggs didn't get enough views to hatch until after ~6 days (i.e. one day left)? That would pretty much guarantee that an egg only in the one hatchery can't get sick.

 

Please no.

 

5 hours ago, Keileon said:

If it was scaled like that I'm not sure anyone would use the hatchery at that point, unless they were going for purple Siyats.

 

Edit:
Or Neglecteds.

 

Exactly this.

 

41 minutes ago, osmarks said:

Also, deliberately scaling view count to avoid sickness and stuff seems kind of hypocritical given that apparently fansites aren't allowed to.

 

It is not hypocritical for the owner of a game to be able to do things that others cannot.

 

I don't especially see how an on-site hatchery would help all THAT much. I'm a bit meh about the whole thing.

[Cinspawn]

The only upside of an on site hatchery such as that would be that it would be good for complete newbies, I think. Just yesterday I was thinking it's not clear at all how to raise your dragons since people don't really consistently use forums enough anymore - and I don't think hatcheries get mentioned on-site but I might be mistaken, I haven't looked into it. (Maybe in the tutorial..? Haven't seen that one in a while

) ETA: Oh they actually definitely get mentioned, that's nice. 

 

So an on-site hatchery would definitely help newbies, albeit very slow... 

 

I like the idea of an on-site hatchery because it just makes sense and I also just really like to click other people's dragons  but I'm not sure how much it will really add to the game with the view scaling. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Cinspawn

[HeatherMarie]

11 hours ago, Jazeki said:

Please no scaling views. Certainly, the extra wait time to hatch would be a deterrent for me and I support this suggestion regardless of viewbombing. It almost seems like a penalty for deciding to use an on-site hatchery instead of a fan site.

 

I have to agree here. It seems sort of... I can't think of the word, but it really doesn't make much sense to me to be able to use an on-site hatchery, which should theoretically be more convenient then always going off-site, but then in return your eggs can't hatch for days longer. Like, who on earth would actually use that consistently, if it always takes waaayy longer to hatch eggs? I could see it being used as a last resort, or for new-newbies who just don't understand off-site hatcheries, but in that case I'm not sure it would be used *enough* to really make it worth coding? I'd actually be really really disappointed if something as potentially-useful as an on-site hatchery had such a *huge* downside.

[Sextonator]

I would love it if I could catch some eggs and immediately throw them into a hatchery, even if they're going to take their sweet sweet time hatching. The worry about them getting sick would be gone, the risk of forgetting them is gone, I'd have something that would pretty much guarantee they hatch.

 

Although I'd prefer if the views were spread out over 3 or 4 days, starting at day 7 or 6.5

[StormWizard212]

21 hours ago, Cinspawn said:

The only upside of an on site hatchery such as that would be that it would be good for complete newbies, I think. Just yesterday I was thinking it's not clear at all how to raise your dragons since people don't really consistently use forums enough anymore

 

This is why I'd like an on-site hatchery. The way people use the internet today is very different to when DC began. I'd like the site to be self-sufficient, without the need to use third-party sites to grow dragons. 

 

That being said, I'd like the on-site hatchery to be efficient enough that dragons can hatch when they're immediately able to, rather than days later. 

[Fuzzbucket]

4 hours ago, Sextonator said:

I would love it if I could catch some eggs and immediately throw them into a hatchery, even if they're going to take their sweet sweet time hatching. The worry about them getting sick would be gone, the risk of forgetting them is gone, I'd have something that would pretty much guarantee they hatch.

 

Although I'd prefer if the views were spread out over 3 or 4 days, starting at day 7 or 6.5

 

I would say that is exactly why TJ might see it as a bad idea. The idea that we raise them and take care of them is behind the game; he even said once himself that he COULD do that but there would be no real challenge. It was just a chatty post and I'll never find it now, but....

[Stromboli]

I'd be fine with the views being scaled so that things didn't hatch/grow until the last day. It'd still be peace of mind to be able to put things in a sickness-free hatchery without fear of forgetting to come back and put them in a hatchery during the times when I can't be as active. When I can, there's fansites for faster views to get things to hatch promptly.

 

And having something on-site, even if it's slower than optimal, would definitely be a big help for new users. Can't tell you how many times posts come across the DC tag on tumblr of new users desperate to keep things from dying because they don't know about fansites.

[Sextonator]

4 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I would say that is exactly why TJ might see it as a bad idea. The idea that we raise them and take care of them is behind the game; he even said once himself that he COULD do that but there would be no real challenge. It was just a chatty post and I'll never find it now, but....

But that’s pretty much how I play. I throw them into hatcheries asap and pretty much forget about them. Sometimes when i don’t immediately do I’ll forget and come back days later panicking. If there was a way to prevent that then I’d be all for it.

[Fuzzbucket]

Lucky you. Many who do that find them dying a lot.