Make eggs/hatchlings in teleports safe.

[JavaTigress]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

We aren't allowed to discuss it... you have PM.

Oooh. Sorry. Sure... PM me then?

[Tears in Rain]

I'm thinking it should be an option in teleports, not an automatic thing, that would solve any inconveniences when the teleport owner needs eggs/hatchlings to gain views for whatever reason and doesn't want to cancel the teleport for that

Maybe a checkbox option before teleport creation? 'Prevent dragons from gaining additional views' or whatever - If you leave it unchecked, they can get UV's and overalls normally; if it's checked, stats are frozen.

[JavaTigress]

3 minutes ago, Tears in Rain said:

I'm thinking it should be an option in teleports, not an automatic thing, that would solve any inconveniences when the teleport owner needs eggs/hatchlings to gain views for whatever reason and doesn't want to cancel the teleport for that

Maybe a checkbox option before teleport creation? 'Prevent dragons from gaining additional views' or whatever - If you leave it unchecked, they can get UV's and overalls normally; if it's checked, stats are frozen.

Yes, in LIGHT of what some others have said, I almost wonder if implementing it as an OPTION'd be best? 

 

That way... if someone doesn't want a trade messed up by being tossed in hatchery as happens ALL too often from what I hear, they can kick in some protection, and if they do want their egg to get views,they can leave it turned off.... or turn it off temporarily?

 

As I said, I wouldn't be opposed to it being implemented that way instead of as a hard and fast... this is how it is, sort of thing?

[Draconiusultamius]

13 minutes ago, Tears in Rain said:

I'm thinking it should be an option in teleports, not an automatic thing, that would solve any inconveniences when the teleport owner needs eggs/hatchlings to gain views for whatever reason and doesn't want to cancel the teleport for that

Maybe a checkbox option before teleport creation? 'Prevent dragons from gaining additional views' or whatever - If you leave it unchecked, they can get UV's and overalls normally; if it's checked, stats are frozen.

I think that would solve the problem. It would still allow the tps to be exploited, but whatever.

[Shadowdrake]

If, hypothetically, there was a "fog all" action/BSA the teleports would be less likely to be "exploited" because fog all would simply be more convenient if you just want to protect eggs.

 

This suggestion would still be useful in multiple circumstances to prevent trades and transfers from growing on their own or being viewbombed while you're offline. With transfers especially you can just send a gift to a friend and don't have to worry if they'll take a while to get online while you're off.

 

Perhaps if TJ doesn't go for it being a checkbox type option, whether tps allow views can depend on whether you have accept aid on or not? Still allows ND making, if a little more inconvenient than normal.

 

Edit: alternatively there could be, say, a Guard bsa that would protect anything in one teleport but goes off cooldown whenever the tp is accepted or canceled. Also takes more effort, but good for those specific ones that need it and less troublesome than accept/deny aid idea.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Shadowdrake

[ArgentiAertheri]

1 minute ago, Shadowdrake said:

With transfers especially you can just send a gift to a friend and don't have to worry if they'll take a while to get online while you're off.

 

You know, that gives me an idea. The problem isn't teleport per se, it's that publicly sharing the link exposes the egg/hatchling. Would making the trading threads visible to logged in players only solve this?

 

[Shadowdrake]

1 minute ago, ArgentiAertheri said:

 

You know, that gives me an idea. The problem isn't teleport per se, it's that publicly sharing the link exposes the egg/hatchling. Would making the trading threads visible to logged in players only solve this?

 

No, not really. There's plenty of people who don't bother with forum accounts but want to trade or visit the giveaway threads, and probably people who do have forum accounts who add ER trade eggs to hatcheries or straight up viewbomb out of spite. It wouldn't help any offsite trading either, or people who happen to get viewbombed from non-trading threads while they happen to have teleports up.

[HeatherMarie]

2 hours ago, ArgentiAertheri said:

 

You know, that gives me an idea. The problem isn't teleport per se, it's that publicly sharing the link exposes the egg/hatchling. Would making the trading threads visible to logged in players only solve this?

 

 

That's not the whole problem though. The real problem is that dragons in teleport can't be hidden (or warded). Even if you don't share the teleport link with *anyone* at all, anyone could add your dragons to hatcheries to viewbomb them, and you can't fog them while they are in teleport. Sharing the teleport link has very little to do with viewbombing problems, unless maybe it's a rare egg and someone sees the teleport link and gets mad that you have that rare egg, but that's not all that common to my knowledge.

 

I'd support some sort of guard bsa where the dragon would protect dragons in a teleport, that would accomplish what we need just fine I think.

[ArgentiAertheri]

Yeah, I guess you're both right, as long as there are "un-fog-able" eggs/hatchies, the problem will remain.

[olympe]

10 hours ago, ArgentiAertheri said:

Yeah, I guess you're both right, as long as there are "un-fog-able" eggs/hatchies, the problem will remain.

This, unfortunately, is the essence of the problem.

[Fjord]

12 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I'd support some sort of guard bsa where the dragon would protect dragons in a teleport, that would accomplish what we need just fine I think.

Maybe give the Guardian Dragons a guard BSA that only works on eggs/hatchies in teleports? It would prevent the eggs/hatchies in the teleport from gaining any clicks or views. Regardless of what happens to the teleport (cancelled or traded), the BSA use is consumed and it goes on cooldown once the eggs/hatchies leave the teleport.

 

I imagine it could either be single use per egg/hatchie and have a short cooldown (Magi length cooldown), OR alternatively it could guard entire groups and the BSA has an increasingly longer cooldown per egg/hatchie protected.

 

I'm more in favor of just letting us fog stuff in trades or straight up preventing them from gaining views and clicks regardless, but if 'exploiting' the teleports for free Wards is a concern, a guard BSA might be a decent compromise.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Fjord

[Fuzzbucket]

ACTUALLY - why can we not see lineages of fogged eggs if they are in a teleport ?? Would that not get around a lot of the problems with trading and views clocking up ?

[JavaTigress]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

ACTUALLY - why can we not see lineages of fogged eggs if they are in a teleport ?? Would that not get around a lot of the problems with trading and views clocking up ?

Interesting idea, Fuzz. AND I would sy that for bred dragons that might work just fine.... I wonder how many people know how to find the lineage view for CBs.

[Fuzzbucket]

If it's in a trade, you'd see the button for lineage. No button - no lineage.

 

 

 

The lineage link would then open the lineage, but no views would clock up. And you can see the other is CB  by - it's from Alpine..

 

And looking at fogged things would ONLY be possible from a teleport link.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[olympe]

Yes, something like that would be perfect. It would leave the responsibility of taking care of our leetle ones while giving us options to actually do so while trading. Not too far over the top, yet just what the doctor ordered. Am I making sense?

[JavaTigress]

AND ACTUALLY! 

 

I was doing some thinking. Due to the recent uptick in viewbombing I have got my growing pretties under fog for right now.

 

I discovered that there are MANY things I can't DO while my babies are under fog.

I cannot name them, I cannot teleport them and I am betting I cannot use any sort of BSA on them, either.

 

I would be all in favor of this fact changing, IMO. I mean, yes the dragon is under fog but WHY shouldn't I be able to give it a name just the same? SILLY, IMO and makes no sense. I would say that while I think it makes SENSE for others to not KNOW where a fogged dragon is, and that is the whole point of it.... but the OWNER, who ostensibly conjured the fog, sure ought to know what they did with an egg or hatchling? I think we should have more leeway in what we can DO with a fogged egg/hatchling. Just tossing my two cents out there for whatever it is worth.

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by JavaTigress

[Tears in Rain]

I would just like to bump this with a major 'support' coz I feel like with the new Trading Hub this has become especially relevant!

 

Right now view bombing in trading can get absolutely insane, in particular with rare eggs; it's difficult to keep up and hiding the scroll doesn't help because there are hatcheries that allow dragons to be added via code.  It's like, I have an ER rare in there rn and I literally had to check on it every couple of minutes because ppl kept adding it. I have other things to do you know, I just want to trade in peace, lol  

 

I feel like Ward is not enough, because malicious view bombing does not always aim to kill the dragon - one of its goals is ruining other ppl's trades by making eggs hatch and hatchlings grow up before the owner wants them to. This shouldn't be disregarded.

 

In addition to Ward, there should be a way to 'fog' dragons in teleport while keeping them and their lineages viewable. Like I said earlier, maybe a special toggle before teleport creation, which lets a player make whatever is going to be in the teleport unable to gain stats - or a modified application of the Hide action for teleports, which leaves the dragon visible but hides it from gaining views aka stats. That way ppl can post their stuff on display in the Trading Hub and not worry about their dragons gaining unwanted views.

 

So yeah, support, still  

[Imzadi]

15 hours ago, Tears in Rain said:

Like I said earlier, maybe a special toggle before teleport creation, which lets a player make whatever is going to be in the teleport unable to gain stats - or a modified application of the Hide action for teleports, which leaves the dragon visible but hides it from gaining views aka stats. That way ppl can post their stuff on display in the Trading Hub and not worry about their dragons gaining unwanted views.

 

So yeah, support, still  

So long as those are optional, I would like this very much

[Ribombee]

I honestly think that Ward still has a very useful function even if eggs in teleports can't get any views or clicks counted toward them. Ward prevents them from dying of sickness for 6 hours, which gives them time to get better if they do get sick. With people being intentionally malicious, and now the trading centre is out, it is a big worry. As the trading centre currently stands, the only way to get a decent number of offers is to cancel a teleport and re-add it, because there is no pagination. So people will only see trades that are new enough to be on the first page. Even under breed view this is the case, with popularly traded breeds having multiple pages. The way Dragonmarket worked was nice because you could just scroll down and peruse everything. I didn't have to keep renewing my trades to get offers like I do now. So any protection that is ended with the cancellation of the teleport would mean you would need to stockpile a massive amount of that BSA dragon. I LOVE trading. It is probably my favourite part of the game. I catch CBs just to trade and see what I can get. Sometimes I trade for something that I then trade again. It's fun. I often don't really NEED any of the things I am trading for, but the actual trading itself is something I enjoy. I like seeing what I can get for an egg. I like seeing the offers, maybe finding a new and fun lineage. 

 

So basically, unless we have pagination in the trading centre, anything that puts a penalty on cancelling trades is going to be a pretty annoying way of protecting. People who cancel to keep trades fresh will have to use a BSA to protect them, use a BSA to trade, cancel the trade, use a BSA to trade again, use a BSA to protect again, etc. The only way I would in favour of this is if the protection lasted even beyond the trade. i.e. once you use the BSA, it lasts for X amount of time no matter what, so long as it is in a trade (i.e. would not be protected during the time the trade was cancelled, but it would be automatically protected again once it was in a teleport). That seems clunky and awkward, though. I am infinitely more interested in just having them protected if they are in a two-way trade, or at LEAST if they are in a public trade. Give the option not to stop views, fine, but since we have malicious and terrible people, we really need a good way to protect eggs in trades, which are often quite valuable eggs. Not to mention, people trade valuable eggs to get things, and if they offer on a trade and THEN the egg gets sick, they could wake up to find the trade went through and the egg died before they could hide it. Literally nothing they did was their fault, as they were just waiting to receive the egg and can't hide it until it is on their scroll. At least if trades were just protected, no views would be gained while it was in trade and they could only start once they were on the new scroll. It would help.

[HeatherMarie]

29 minutes ago, Ribombee said:

I honestly think that Ward still has a very useful function even if eggs in teleports can't get any views or clicks counted toward them. Ward prevents them from dying of sickness for 6 hours, which gives them time to get better if they do get sick. With people being intentionally malicious, and now the trading centre is out, it is a big worry. As the trading centre currently stands, the only way to get a decent number of offers is to cancel a teleport and re-add it, because there is no pagination. So people will only see trades that are new enough to be on the first page. Even under breed view this is the case, with popularly traded breeds having multiple pages. The way Dragonmarket worked was nice because you could just scroll down and peruse everything. I didn't have to keep renewing my trades to get offers like I do now. So any protection that is ended with the cancellation of the teleport would mean you would need to stockpile a massive amount of that BSA dragon. I LOVE trading. It is probably my favourite part of the game. I catch CBs just to trade and see what I can get. Sometimes I trade for something that I then trade again. It's fun. I often don't really NEED any of the things I am trading for, but the actual trading itself is something I enjoy. I like seeing what I can get for an egg. I like seeing the offers, maybe finding a new and fun lineage. 

 

So basically, unless we have pagination in the trading centre, anything that puts a penalty on cancelling trades is going to be a pretty annoying way of protecting. People who cancel to keep trades fresh will have to use a BSA to protect them, use a BSA to trade, cancel the trade, use a BSA to trade again, use a BSA to protect again, etc. The only way I would in favour of this is if the protection lasted even beyond the trade. i.e. once you use the BSA, it lasts for X amount of time no matter what, so long as it is in a trade (i.e. would not be protected during the time the trade was cancelled, but it would be automatically protected again once it was in a teleport). That seems clunky and awkward, though. I am infinitely more interested in just having them protected if they are in a two-way trade, or at LEAST if they are in a public trade. Give the option not to stop views, fine, but since we have malicious and terrible people, we really need a good way to protect eggs in trades, which are often quite valuable eggs. Not to mention, people trade valuable eggs to get things, and if they offer on a trade and THEN the egg gets sick, they could wake up to find the trade went through and the egg died before they could hide it. Literally nothing they did was their fault, as they were just waiting to receive the egg and can't hide it until it is on their scroll. At least if trades were just protected, no views would be gained while it was in trade and they could only start once they were on the new scroll. It would help.

 

TJ has already commented on the pagination issue and seems to agree that it's a good idea, so I'm not sure that's really an issue we need to worry about when trying to figure out ways to make teleported dragons safe. He is most likely already working on pagination or it's on his list. And once pagination happens there should really be no need to cancel and re-make teleports, so that whole issue won't really be a thing anymore. 

 

Ward is not really useful at all as it stands right now, both because of the short amount of time (6 hours is really not enough for most sickness to disappear) and because it doesn't actually stop views or viewbombers in any way. It doesn't do anything at all to *cure* sickness, really, it simply makes it so the dragon can't die for a handful of hours. Which is fairly useless when the dragon already has way too many views, it will just die when the 6 hours are up. If we were able to 'hide' a dragon that's in teleport, or stop it from getting views, then Warding it would give it time to get better while not making the sickness worse by getting even more views. 

[Ribombee]

25 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

TJ has already commented on the pagination issue and seems to agree that it's a good idea, so I'm not sure that's really an issue we need to worry about when trying to figure out ways to make teleported dragons safe. He is most likely already working on pagination or it's on his list. And once pagination happens there should really be no need to cancel and re-make teleports, so that whole issue won't really be a thing anymore. 

 

Ward is not really useful at all as it stands right now, both because of the short amount of time (6 hours is really not enough for most sickness to disappear) and because it doesn't actually stop views or viewbombers in any way. It doesn't do anything at all to *cure* sickness, really, it simply makes it so the dragon can't die for a handful of hours. Which is fairly useless when the dragon already has way too many views, it will just die when the 6 hours are up. If we were able to 'hide' a dragon that's in teleport, or stop it from getting views, then Warding it would give it time to get better while not making the sickness worse by getting even more views. 

 

My main reason for bringing up Warding was that people said teleports would be used to get around using Ward. My point was that there is really not a reason to think that it will be abused to the point of making Ward any less useful. It is, as you said, already not very useful. Being able to prevent trade eggs/hatchies from getting views will not detract any more from Ward, in my opinion, because I feel the best use for Ward is not to prevent sickness (6 hours is pretty useless given that work days are at least 8 hours and most people sleep for 7-8 hours), but it can make some difference between an egg living or dying. You can pop it on for the 6 hours, then at most it will get 2 hours of views while someone is at work or sleeping, etc. Again, not the most useful, but I really don't see teleport protection being a major abuse problem since all it is doing anyway is countering the abuse already in place; viewbombing. If something is not in trade, it is easy enough to just hide eggs, anyway. I am glad to hear TJ will fix the pagination issue, as it really will be useful for a lot of reason in trading. 

[HeatherMarie]

16 minutes ago, Ribombee said:

 

My main reason for bringing up Warding was that people said teleports would be used to get around using Ward. My point was that there is really not a reason to think that it will be abused to the point of making Ward any less useful. It is, as you said, already not very useful. Being able to prevent trade eggs/hatchies from getting views will not detract any more from Ward, in my opinion, because I feel the best use for Ward is not to prevent sickness (6 hours is pretty useless given that work days are at least 8 hours and most people sleep for 7-8 hours), but it can make some difference between an egg living or dying. You can pop it on for the 6 hours, then at most it will get 2 hours of views while someone is at work or sleeping, etc. Again, not the most useful, but I really don't see teleport protection being a major abuse problem since all it is doing anyway is countering the abuse already in place; viewbombing. If something is not in trade, it is easy enough to just hide eggs, anyway. I am glad to hear TJ will fix the pagination issue, as it really will be useful for a lot of reason in trading. 

 

(bolding mine)  Just to be clear, Ward does not currently stop eggs from getting views (I can't tell by your wording if you are referring only to the suggestion of teleport-dragons not gaining views, or if you are talking about Warded eggs getting views). Using Ward alongside the suggested feature of trade-dragons not getting views would be very nice, though, because Ward can stop an already-sick egg from dying for 6 hours *and* the egg won't get any more views while in the trade so there will be a much better chance of the sickness clearing up. 

[Shinsei]

Just wondering: Have any admins ever responded to these suggestions? It really does seem like a good idea to code the Trading Hub so that all eggs in Teleport are protected, and I'm sure that TJ can do a great job of making it both fair and functional.

 

Is there any plan to implement something like this? The malicious viewing problem was bad enough at this most recent new release, so implementing this soon would be greatly appreciated. At the very least, it would be especially nice to have something like this in place before the next holiday (Halloween) season. Thanks for considering!

[Kirono]

What happened to the "Stun" BSA? Would stun + ward not work? Yes it sucks if your trade has been up for 6 hours and you have offers and want to re-protect your egg, but at that point "**** or get off the pot".

 

Otherwise, sucks to forget to do those, but do those before creating the trade?

 

Why not just extend the "Stun" to eggs?

[HeatherMarie]

26 minutes ago, Azarkiel said:

What happened to the "Stun" BSA? Would stun + ward not work? Yes it sucks if your trade has been up for 6 hours and you have offers and want to re-protect your egg, but at that point "**** or get off the pot".

 

Otherwise, sucks to forget to do those, but do those before creating the trade?

 

Why not just extend the "Stun" to eggs?

 

If Stun was extended to eggs that would be great and would definitely help, but right now it's not so that's why we're trying to come up with other alternatives in this thread. There has also been a suggestion to lengthen the time of Ward, which would also help. However, neither of those things gets to the core of the issue, which is that you can't *do* any actions on dragons that are already in Teleport. You can't Stun, you can't Ward, you can't fog. We *need* to be able to do these things while dragons are in Teleport, because as it stands now we have absolutely no control over what happens to our dragons while they are in Teleport and that's just not right. Regarding 'do those before creating the trade', that's not really a plausible solution for people who trade a lot, they'd need a TON of Bolts/Whites in order to protect every single dragon in every single trade they make  (especially since the cooldowns are so long). That's simply not realistic. And it doesn't make sense to protect *everything* ahead of time like that just in *case* viewbombing happens, especially when there are many other, better things that could be implemented.

Edited July 6, 2018 by HeatherMarie