Improve Prize Breeding Ratios

[Starscream]

Yes, we are mostly a bunch of greedy dragon-hoarders. And that's precisely why I do not buy it when people (as a whole) say "improve prize breeding ratios so we can share our happiness/low-gen prizes with the DC community", but that might be just me

Its not just you. I feel the "improve the breeding ratio" request, nothing more, how do I say this clearly... people expect prize owners to just hand out left right and centre to the whim of others. In my opinion, it's only greedy and self serving of those who are wanting it.

 

If the success rate is improved, then what? Exactly what does it achieve? Now we all have a second gen/third gen prize. I believe prize dragons are considered 'rare' and in my experience with items that are rare, they are classified as such because of their scarcity; Not every one can have one. That is how it works.

 

Oh we can dream about getting our rare things, but chances are next to slim. The challenge of hunting down that hard to get thing is satisfying, if not a bit confusing once that goal is achieved and the time to get a new goal set (IRL collection this happened). Things that are rare are because they are extremely hard to find, difficult to get (Transparent Lucky Draw Starscream - only 5 exist in this entire world).

 

Improving the ratio would only cost the success for people who do not want that and want a common. If it's rare, it will and should be significantly less common than other breeds.

[Fiona]

My perspective is that prize dragons already breed pretty easily. I'm much more apt to get a prize dragon from one of my pairs than I'm likely to get a metal if I'm trying to breed a metal from something. I wouldn't mind seeing a tweak that would tend to make lower gen dragons breed a tiny bit better than higher gen dragons, though we'd have to be careful with that too, as there are many who enjoy creating longer gen dragons in nice patterns. I don't think a change to the prize dragon ratios is needed though.

 

There's also a perception stated in this thread that you can't buy a 2nd gen prize even with multiple cb metals. I'm not sure that's true either. I haven't paid any cb metals for one yet and I have more than one 2nd gen prize dragon. Perhaps those who hold that opinion only think that because they offered multiple cb metals for a 2nd gen prize dragon and didn't get any takers. That could be because so many of the cb prize dragon owners ended up with frustratingly long lists of people they said they'd give an egg to. So they look at these trade offers asking for a 2nd gen prize and shrug because they can't trade their dragon's offspring for such things until they clear their list. It doesn't matter how much you offer in trade if no one has what you're looking for.

[DragonLove234]

Personally, I think that the ratios are fine. Yes, I do understand how owners go for months on end without even breeding a common from a pairing, let alone a Prize, but think about it: We have raffles every year and only a small portion of participants win. The CB Prizes are very rare, very hard to get and so should their offspring. I know that you should be able to breed something you won when you had barely a chance but 2nd gen Prizes should be hard to obtain. They aren't going to be rare forever so you might as well enjoy (and suffer from) it now. I personally am actually on both sides. I'm unsure now if the ratios should be edited or not. Hopefully anything I just said made sense.

[Laugh]

No need to justify yourself, it just proves my point.

Yes, we are mostly a bunch of greedy dragon-hoarders. And that's precisely why I do not buy it when people (as a whole) say "improve prize breeding ratios so we can share our happiness/low-gen prizes with the DC community", but that might be just me

I agree with you. I don't completely buy into that myself, but I do believe a small group of people would share the love. I honestly would not be one of those people giving away free low-gen prizes left and right. As much as I would like to believe I would share the love, that just isn't quite true.

 

If people want better chances for prize offspring I suggest they stop asking for pairings that the odds of producing a prize is slim. Like bleeding moons, serragammas, tidals, etc. I understand not everyone knows very much about ratios and I don't know too much myself about ratios, but I think a very large portion of us (by us I mean the community) understand things x mint will usually result in a mint. ._.; If it produces 10+ fails I would hope it is an indication that you should change mates. I know someone purposely abused this and traded off 2g prizefails for CB Metals and other goodies... So there's those type of people too I guess.

 

Fiona is right, you don't need to trade multiple CB Metals to get a 2g prize. I have gotten 3/4 of the Xiiao Yen lines for free (she doesn't mind me talking about her, just she doesn't want PMs atm so not mentioning her name). Would have been 4/4, but I insisted on paying for the 2nd (Fever line which I thought would produce horrible, but actually got a shiny on second try). When I messaged her I did tell her I had a couple of CB Coppers and a CB Silver I could trade for just for one egg. She said it was fine since I helped her out when she came back to the game, which were all small things like questions about NDs, terminology, helping with small lineage projects, etc. I sure didn't complain! Another owner agreed on a 1 shiny for 1 CB ND + 1 CB Gold, but after recognizing my first profile picture I had on the forums was from an anime she watched she decided to add in another shiny (from her prize) for free. In that same message I remember something on the lines of,

 

"Usually when I deal offspring of my prize I add in a free 2g prize because I recognize the anime. I did give another one free to a user because they had a Kirby avatar"

 

I never got my prizes though, she went inactive.

 

 

[Dracaena]

There is another side to this. The case of the cb prize owner getting so frustrated by lack of prize offspring they stopped breeding. I know as I was on a list to get a 2nd gen prize where I already paid what was asked for it. It's not coming. It seems to me that winning a prize is a curse for some people and brings them more grief than joy.

 

 

[Syphoneira]

...Well, "nothing so far outweighed the assessed 'worth' of any other dragon, including the previously most elusive and desired sprites" is a personal opinion/perception. No doubt, low-gen prizes are in high demand overall.

But from the part of your post I quoted you make it seem CB prizes were/are solely responsible for Dragon Cave "turning into an economic game", which I simply doubt to be true. I have seen people offering several CB Golds and more for a 2G Holly last Christmas. I see people offering several things for a CB Gold all the time (I still have to catch my first Gold in the cave). I do not need to talk about Alt sprites (which are truly unique sprites) or some of the Thuwed pairings. I would pick a 2G Yulebuck from Hershel or a 2G from CB Thuwed hybrids over a 2G prize anytime. There you have your "assessed worth of prize dragons".

I very much doubt that (to quote you) "everybody used to be able to at least plan to/dream they'd 'get them all'" even before the raffles.

 

 

 

No need to justify yourself, it just proves my point.

Yes, we are mostly a bunch of greedy dragon-hoarders. And that's precisely why I do not buy it when people (as a whole) say "improve prize breeding ratios so we can share our happiness/low-gen prizes with the DC community", but that might be just me

 

 

 

Hi, Mondat!

 

Yup, people offer lots for a Holly available once a year, in another scarcity situation, now finally improving because of people being able to pick up more breeding material annually and produce more (hopefully!) multi-clutches per long-term-playing scroll.

 

Think back as to whether you've ever seen anything like the result of the Prizes in what mirrored and magnified the original Holly situation, with very few CBs among however many players, AND with the Hollies only breeding once every year.

 

These Prizes were NEW DRAGONZ with almost certainly most of us having the 'MUST HAZ NEW DRAGONS' reflex kick in.

 

Obviously, nearly everyone would never have a CB, but these BRED and we 'can haz babies?' - only they bred rather badly and desperation impelled fast catchers to offer everything of the best that they could possibly dredge up to get the best offer in for a place on a rare open and slow-moving list, hiking 'prices' up through the roof - as is typical in scarcity situations.

 

Scarcity involving whatever beautiful sprites WILL cause issues - but the Holly shortage-engendered craze was long-standing, dating from the 1st Christmas Release and predating nearly all of us currently playing, and few of us seriously hoped to get a decent one in the current century, although we certainly tried catching at Christmas, when we could see one or a few, typically from multi-clutches, on the AP, lol.

 

(I never could catch one at the time myself, but was gifted a lovely 4th gen in 2010, thanks to a couple of angels - a LOT of people gift, when they have nice things worth giving.)

 

The Holly situation predated all of the people joining since then, and it came with the game, so to speak - whereas the Prizes were the first new breedable dragons to be randomly issued in such tiny numbers and without being available in the Cave.

 

The only way to get offspring from this entirely new type of Raffled Release did not include (the usual hordes) hunting in the Cave, or (years of potentially fruitless) Summoning - even if (then rarely) Abandoned for random AP gifting, *they could only be obtained through the agency of an owner*.

 

The fact that CB Golds are so highly valued yet people wanted 2nd gen Prizes so badly as to offer so many indicates that yes, "nothing so far outweighed the assessed 'worth' of any other dragon, including the previously most elusive and desired sprites" - and I've seen Holly IOUs offered (this among the very few CB Holly owners we have still playing) as well for 2nd gen Shimmers, haven't you?

 

 

You may personally have other interests which outrank the Tinsel/Shimmer craze, as do others, but I'd consider the effect on the Cave overall, (especially as regards what was offered, bred lineage-wise and how valued in the trade threads on which many slower catchers depended, prior to and, in contrast, following the Prizes - and how typically sprites became ultimately valued *in relation to acquiring the Prizes following their appearance*) to be undeniable, especially since so many others have noted and commented on it through the years.

 

It's only since my recent return following 7 months of no internet that I've started seeing a more reasonable number of trade posts for nice lineages not involving rare eggs/hatchies on the trade threads.

 

(I was, btw, speaking generally, regarding the general effects, and I'm sorry if that wasn't made evident.)

 

Regarding "everybody used to be able to at least plan to/dream they'd 'get them all'", perhaps I should have qualified, but most people I 'spoke' with in earlier years certainly seemed to hope one day to 'get them all' at least as regards the colours and initially many people certainly hoped to get all available Prize lines, (some even wishing for one with each mate of each line, a mind-boggling proposition, lol,) acquiring the basic lines being something some had apparently sorta-kinda achieved as far as was reasonably possible at some earlier points, with often longer lineages containing whatever line they hadn't yet acquired being still valued by them on these grounds.

 

Now, however, anything beyond the first few gens is not desired in trades by very many - and people don't like to give gifts viewed as worthless, so longer gens considered pretty by the person offering are (at least in my case,) extended with apologies and a wish they could do better.

 

 

I'm not trying to justify myself, lol, and don't feel obliged to try; I'm here to collect dragons, which is the essential purpose of the game.

 

For me, gifting is part of this game and a lot of fun, if you can give nice things that make people happy.

 

We're pretty much all here, I believe, to collect dragons, and it sucks when a large portion of the players are converted into a small group of 'the Rich' and a large group of 'the Poors', mirroring the world we come here to get away from.

 

And I'm not sure why any CB Prize owners would object to better breeding which would benefit them so greatly; in such a case, some of 'the Poors' would have a better chance at 3rd and 4th gens they'd quite possibly not even be dealing in themselves.

 

It's been pointed out that even if all CB Prizes multiclutched Prizes on a weekly basis, we wouldn't all have 2nd gens for something like a century? so 2nd gens could never become 'common' in our lifetimes.

 

Not that the average person being able to obtain one or a few of a specific gen of any sprite over time on scrolls with hundreds or thousands of dragons translates to 'common' in my book...

 

But IF all CB Prizes DID breed well and multiclutched Prizes on a weekly basis, lists would be filled and emptied regularly, CB Prize owners would have the pressure taken off, and a lot more people would have shorter-gens to breed - and I fail to see how this would, over-all, be a bad thing.

 

 

Obviously, sharing the same infinitesimal chance as everyone else, I will almost certainly never have a CB Prize given to me by TJ and Lady Luck-of-the-Raffle, but most of the Prize dragons I do have, have been gifts made to me, and in returning the favour to people who've gifted me and in some small measure to the community, I'm just a very tiny part of what's coming and going 'round, making DC a better place with every turn of the wheel.

 

I really don't think either greedy dragon collecting or gifting needs justification here on DC - girls just want to have fun.

[Fuzzbucket]

My perspective is that prize dragons already breed pretty easily. I'm much more apt to get a prize dragon from one of my pairs than I'm likely to get a metal if I'm trying to breed a metal from something.

This, actually. I have a 2gen gold IOU I've been trying for for MONTHS, not to mention a gold x HORSE, for heaven's sake - the desired outcome is a horse, and I'm not getting EITHER breed from that male gold As for my silvers - I am NEVER going to get my IOUs filled. But my tins and shimmers are doing quite well.

 

And I have never CAUGHT a gold, either, Mondat - I was gifted the ones I have, out of the blue, by people I had never even interacted with before. As was my 2 gen prize (don't ask, please; waiting list (nontrade) is as long as several arms !) It isn't just let's give to our friends stuff.

I'm not sure that's true either. I haven't paid any cb metals for one yet and I have more than one 2nd gen prize dragon. Perhaps those who hold that opinion only think that because they offered multiple cb metals for a 2nd gen prize dragon and didn't get any takers.  That could be because so many of the cb prize dragon owners ended up with frustratingly long lists of people they said they'd give an egg to. So they look at these trade offers asking for a 2nd gen prize and shrug because they can't trade their dragon's offspring for such things until they clear their list. It doesn't matter how much you offer in trade if no one has what you're looking for.

I'd love to build up a 2 gen prize stable - but not by "paying" my first borns for them. The stock market doesn't interest me ! And as Fi says - one has lists. That's why my sig used to say (maybe it still does; I forget) that I breed for free "except Hollies" as I do have a long waiting list except for the really messy one. Not from trades' from people who asked nicely, or from people I have seen here who are lamenting their lack of Hollies NICELY, without whining.

Edited November 17, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Thuban]

I have.. 11ish second gens. I didnt pay rares for most of them, certainly not cb metals. My most expensive was a 50 cb hatchy trade, where the person was new, and wanted 50 different sprites, where possible. And I only offered 50, because they were newer, and because I had trade partners already throwing tons of hatchys at me.

 

my cheapest one, only cost me 6 cb hatchys from whatever the newest release was going to be. Most cost me either 5-10 uncommons, or 15-20 cb hatchys.

 

You dont need rares to get second gens. It takes longer to find trade partners, sure.. but you dont need a wall of cb metals to get them.

 

When I bother to trade off babies, I let people offer what they think they can afford. Usually, I tell them to stop throwing hatchys at me, long before they pay it off. Since I prefer the super-commons, to the more rare dragons, this works out well for me. If I need things influenced, I cut whatever number offered, in half. If what they are offering is uncommon, or more on the rare side, I cut the number in half again. The only dragons I have that I dont do this with, are the ones that havent already kicked out at least 5 shinies.

 

 

It is far harder to get balloons from cb prizes, than to get shinies. Seriously.. all but one prize kicked out shinies, before balloons. I'm still missing two balloons I need to finish my goal of creating checkers from each type of prize. Those are definitely going to be my hardest challenge.

[MokiHunter]

Although I can see where the frustration is coming from, I think it also has to do with finding the right mate. I have a 3G Silver Tinsel who has bred successfully every time with the same mate. Though the majority of the offspring are the mate's breed, I think that's fair. So while I see the point of the topic, I would also like to argue that the mate plays a huge role in the success rate.

[whitebaron]

@Syphoneira: Regarding your "Scarcity Situation":

I have a lot more metallics total than I have shimmers. I can reliably breed more shimmers in a week than metals in a month.

 

Now explain to me, how that is more scarce totally?

As far as second gens are concerned, Cyradis4 already gave some figures earlier in the thread, even if you would increase prize breeding ratios to give a 2nd gen shiny every other try, it would never be enough to make shimmers as common as CB metallics.

 

What does this mean?

The relaxation of the market would only go as far as the rich people getting more 2g prizes for less cb metals, and the poor people getting 4-6g trash instead of 5-7g "trash".

 

As I have shown time and again, 3gs are perfect starting points for lineages, as you can still decide everything except the first mate without owing the 2nd gens. So 3gs will always stay within the realm of those who can pay more.

 

--

@thu: i'd leave the whole social matter out of a place and discussion like this. I did get gifted many a prize, including a 2g and multiple 3gs of my choice. Also, when you talk amicably to someone, they are quite likely to only ask for stuff they think "nice" instead of what they think of as "equal value"

 

---

 

 

 

PS:

do shimmers really breed that badly?

 

http://dragcave.net/progeny/n/cs%20penta-gamma

 

I think not.

[Thuban]

Whitebaron: Thats the thing though.. the social side, does play into the issue being discussed. People want more low gens bred, to be able to hopefully drive down the price.. so that more people can have them.

 

Raising the amount of breeding the low gens can produce, only floods the site with more higher gens. Putting anything in effect, that give lower gens a higher chance of breeding (be it multiple eggs or more shiny babies) when compared to higher gens, is unfair to those players who only have the higher gens to play with. Now, if the multiple babies is coming from TJs post on fertility bsa.. then I have no complaints, at all. But as a built in mechanic, I am not ok with it.

 

The only way that I would really be ok with a forced, in game mechanic that gives preference to cb prizes.. is if it is a brand new prize that has been out for less than say...two months, is breeding multiples every time. Of course, this has the slight drawback of creating a lot more babies towards ratios, much sooner, which could lead to the dryspell that is prone to happening with the newer prizes after about 7 months, happening sooner. This would get more second gens out there, much faster though, increasing how many people are breeding them that much faster.

[Vhale]

It may put more pressure on owners too though. If people get the idea that suddenly prizes are breeding more eggs, owners will get swamped. But if I remember right the idea of multi clutching was shot down. And the idea of releasing them in cave after a number of years had passed.

 

I've also noticed cb hatchy trades seem to have dried up. It used to be fairly simple to get one or two hatchies for an uncommon egg. Now, not so much. I would guess more people got into lineaging and/or the people raising hatchies are all caught up raising them for 2nd gen prizes. 50 is a hell of a lot to raise for 1 egg and doesn't leave much room for other trades. More 2nd gens might stifle trading more than it already is.

 

As an aside, speaking as someone who was quietly gifting cb golds and silvers. I was doing this when they were dropping frequently. So I specifically went looking for even gen people that were really helpful and asked them to name someone who had helped them out, but had no cb metals. Then that person named another. Sort of a pay it forward campaign. Unfortunately the golds stopped dropping as commonly and the cave was changed to rotate eggs every 5 minutes. Being someone that works, I can't watch each 5 minute interval to snag metals. I've caught two silvers since the change. (granted, been off the cave half the year due to moving and new job change)

[Syphoneira]

@Syphoneira: Regarding your "Scarcity Situation":

I have a lot more metallics total than I have shimmers. I can reliably breed more shimmers in a week than metals in a month.

 

Now explain to me, how that is more scarce totally?

As far as second gens are concerned, Cyradis4 already gave some figures earlier in the thread, even if you would increase prize breeding ratios to give a 2nd gen shiny every other try, it would never be enough to make shimmers as common as CB metallics.

 

What does this mean?

The relaxation of the market would only go as far as the rich people getting more 2g prizes for less cb metals, and the poor people getting 4-6g trash instead of 5-7g "trash".

 

As I have shown time and again, 3gs are perfect starting points for lineages, as you can still decide everything except the first mate without owing the 2nd gens. So 3gs will always stay within the realm of those who can pay more.

 

--

@thu: i'd leave the whole social matter out of a place and discussion like this. I did get gifted many a prize, including a 2g and multiple 3gs of my choice. Also, when you talk amicably to someone, they are quite likely to only ask for stuff they think "nice" instead of what they think of as "equal value"

 

---

 

 

 

PS:

do shimmers really breed that badly?

 

http://dragcave.net/progeny/n/cs%20penta-gamma

 

I think not.

 

 

 

Hi, whitebaron,

 

actually, I was referring to the scarcity within the overall site, among however many thousands of people.

 

 

There are far fewer CB Prizes than CB Golds existing in the DC, and there always will be.

 

There are also far fewer Prize 2nd gens than Gold 2nd gens; the former couldn't catch up with them this century if CB Prizes started multi-clutching 4 every time they were bred simply because there are so few of them, while a comparatively massive number of hard-to-come-by CB Golds has already been collected over all of the years DC has had them and a number of CB Golds Drop daily in the Cave.

 

 

Indeed, Cyradus4 made it plain that expressed worries about 2nd gen Prizes becoming 'common' any time this century were ludicrous.

 

 

Some points to consider would be that increasing CB Prize breeding success would gradually begin to get some pressure off CB owners, and increase the numbers of lower gens.

 

 

One man's trash may be the best someone else can get, and 4-6 gen 'trash' is MUCH better than 5-7 gen 'trash'.

 

Not everyone can get 3rd gens, as there's a shortage of lower-gens compared to the number of players and from the perspective of possibly most people unable to obtain enough or even any of them, because the Prize dragons do not breed well for everybody.

 

CB Prize owners have quit DC because of the strain of having taken on lists their dragons simply won't produce for.

 

 

 

Lol, your Shimmers need to give mine a few pointers.

 

It does seem that some dragons, or perhaps some scrolls, seem to do better at breeding, something I've been noting for years.

 

My only 2nd gen, for example, has produced 7 shinies over the years of her breeding life so far, although she might well have produced 8 by now, had I not been offline for the previous 7 months.

 

She won't produce even a Black egg with any other mate I've tried.

 

2nd gen Grew up on: Aug 05, 2011 - 7 shinies in all that time - could have been worse and even more depressing... *shudders*

 

http://dragcave.net/progeny/cJK9v

 

 

(None of the rest have produced enough eggs of any kind to have a progeny page.)

 

 

3rd gen - doing better than some, has produced 3 shinies since she Grew up on: Jan 26, 2012

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/mWFqq

 

 

3rd gen produced 3 shinies so far - Grew up on: Dec 22, 2011

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/NKJjB

 

 

4th gen has produced one shiny so far, Grew up on: Aug 03, 2012

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/j5mig

 

 

This 3rd gen has actually produced 2 in the last two years, Grew up on: May 29, 2012

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/VjdUu

 

 

(The above were all Tinsels, btw.)

 

 

this 3rd gen Shimmer Grew up on: Jun 14, 2013, no shinies - indeed no eggs - as of yet

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/9GPXQ

 

 

this 4th gen Grew up on: Jun 12, 2013, has produced one shiny

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/yu36o

 

 

 

4th gen Tinsel Grew up on: May 23, 2013, produced one shiny so far

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/nlACm

 

 

3rd gen Shimmer Grew up on: May 02, 2013, no shinies as of yet

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/mF9QR

 

 

 

4th gen Tinsel Grew up on: Apr 26, 2013, no shinies as of yet

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/i0tV9

 

 

 

3rd gen Shimmer Grew up on: Apr 17, 2013, 1 shiny so far

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/izIcd

 

 

4th gen Shimmer Grew up on: Apr 04, 2013, and has actually produced 3 in not much over a year and a half

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/33u4n

 

 

 

4th gen Tinsel Grew up on: Mar 31, 2013, has produced 4! in about a year and a half wow... sure beats the 1 shiny in 6 months average my scroll seems to be demonstrating...

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/3l1Xt

 

 

 

4th gen Tinsel Grew up on: Oct 05, 2013, has produced 1 shiny

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/95I0a

 

 

3rd gen Tinsel Grew up on: Oct 01, 2013, has produced 1 shiny

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/e5QHr

 

 

 

4th gen Tinsel Grew up on: Sep 25, 2013, no shinies yet

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/Td7oa

 

 

 

3rd gen Shimmer Grew up on: Sep 09, 2013, produced 1 shiny

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/vaVRq

 

 

 

4th gen Shimmer Grew up on: Aug 25, 2013, actually produced 2 shinies in not that much over a year

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/POEpy

 

 

 

3rd gen Tinsel Grew up on: Jun 25, 2013, a GOOD boy, (comparatively speaking...) 3 shinies in not that much over a year

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/iQkay

 

 

3rd gen Tinsel Grew up on: Dec 24, 2013. hasn't yet produced an egg

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/u5qBJ

 

 

4th gen Tinsel Grew up on: Jan 01, 2014, produced one shiny over the year so far

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/Xp0bl

 

 

4th gen Tinsel Grew up on: Jan 02, 2014, produced one shiny over the year so far

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/IMLOy

 

 

3rd gen Shimmer Grew up on: Feb 17, 2014, little beauty actually produced 2 shinies so far this year! wow... that's like one almost every 5 months or something, right?

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/dlC4H

 

 

 

3rd gen Tinsel Grew up on: Feb 22, 2014, has produced one this year... dunno, maybe that guesstimated 1 shiny in 6 month average of my better Prizes is a little high...

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/4jJTZ

 

 

Most of these lovely dragons were gifted to me, and to me, they look like quite a list - and I get very discouraged just trying to gift back and spread a few lower-gens ('trash' or not, lol,) around.

 

I don't make lists or promise particular eggs anymore, just breed and see IF I get one out of somebody over 5th gen... the longer lineages, 6th gen and up, naturally produced better (back when a lot of people were more desperate for any Prize egg,) since unwanted by so many, and there are more of them to try, if I was going to breed them and waste a Cave-wide chance at a nicer sprite on a longer lineage that many people wouldn't want.

 

 

From my perspective, although mine is obviously dwarfed by the collections of many others, I have a lot of lower-gens (I'd have almost nothing if not for various wonderful people,) and would think that I'd be able to come up something decent on a weekly basis when trying for gifts/swaps - and I wonder how people who haven't been as fortunate as myself feel, when I can't even breed them or anyone anything above 5th gen 'trash' so much of the time.

 

What about the people with nothing above 5th gen, or only a few lower-gens, getting maybe one or two shinies a year from each, if they're lucky?

 

What's wrong with 'the poor people getting 4-6g 'trash' instead of 5-7g "trash". ', anyway?

 

And what's wrong with CB owners having better breeding luck and getting through their lists; what's wrong with more people getting what they traded a lot for, a lot faster, (or just getting it, period, before the owner quits DC in frustration with no interest/no egg/wrong egg repeats endlessly appearing weekly,) what's wrong with more people getting more 2nd gens to breed 3rd gens, so more people have 3rd gens to breed and more people can get 4th gens instead of only 6th gen 'trash?

 

Seriously, that sounds like a much happier place to be, benefiting all concerned - so what exactly IS so wrong about the idea?

 

 

[Fiona]

CB Prize owners have quit DC because of the strain of having taken on lists their dragons simply won't produce for.

 

How do you know this is true? Have they told you that's why they quit? Maybe they quit because they got tired of being pestered for 2nd gens from people. Maybe they just got tired of playing. Maybe they quit for completely different reasons. Unless they said why they quit we can't know their reasons. It's also a personal choice whether or not to take on lists. Plus, you can hardly conclude that they're that upset about it if they abandoned all those IOUs. They can't feel too badly about not filling them or they'd still be trying.

 

Your low gen prize dragons are stingy beasts. My Jewel dragon, as an example, has 13 3rd gen prize babies, just since May 2013, and I don't even breed her every week. My Luckiest Catch dragon has 17 just since July 2013, and again I don't necessarily breed her every week. You can't use your own poorly producing stingy beasts as proof that "prize dragon breeding is terrible" because not everyone finds it so bad.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Fiona BlueFire

[Syphoneira]

How do you know this is true? Have they told you that's why they quit? Maybe they quit because they got tired of being pestered for 2nd gens from people. Maybe they just got tired of playing. Maybe they quit for completely different reasons. Unless they said why they quit we can't know their reasons. It's also a personal choice whether or not to take on lists. Plus, you can hardly conclude that they're that upset about it if they abandoned all those IOUs. They can't feel too badly about not filling them or they'd still be trying.

 

Your low gen prize dragons are stingy beasts. My Jewel dragon, as an example, has 13 3rd gen babies, just since May 2013, and I don't even breed her every week. My Luckiest Catch dragon has 17 just since July 2013, and again I don't necessarily breed her every week. You can't use your own poorly producing stingy beasts as proof that "prize dragon breeding is terrible" because not everyone finds it so bad.

 

 

 

Very true, although their dragons were not producing well and they did have lists waiting, so that I heard this from people on lists, which does make it hearsay and a guess.

 

 

Yes, the point I'm making is that over the years it's seemed to me that some scrolls breed better than others.

 

Mine isn't one of them, lol.

 

That was actually in example, answering someone whose Prize dragons DO breed well, to show that not all of them produce at the rate his do.

[Red2111]

even half a year late my stance is still the same on this.

 

in comparison to the 2011 drought, shimmers and tinsels are still breeding great imo.

 

 

i have stingy lines, yes; but i dont blame the ratios on this.

 

i've found that the more often i breed a line, the more likely it is to stop shiny production.

 

the more common the mate (ie: how often the non shiny mate is being bred cave wise) the less likely to get a shiny

 

 

and the lower the generation ... well the higher in demand that line will be and the more often i'll be breeding it.

 

 

still though, as i said, in comparison to 2011 when we went months breeding all lines and were lucky to get a Kin from any tinsel. in comparison these rare dragons are breeding well.

 

 

i'll start to worry when i go for a few months and get no shinies from any of my lines (to include the 8G-10G who havent been bred since 2012)

 

 

[Syphoneira]

Lol, mine weren't bred for 7 months while I was offline, and for some time after, as I'd been just in time for Halloween and happily locked myself with Holiday and missed New Release eggs for some time.

 

I did get some eggs, but, typically, my nicest ones have been voted 'Least Likely to Produce' yet again.

 

Edit: I should have their water supply tested for levels of contaminatory pharmaceuticals and other hormone disruptors...

Edited November 17, 2014 by Syphoneira

[Fiona]

While you're checking for chemicals, check for death mana mixing into the water. It's probably not that. You never know though. Could be Time mana too. That would be troublesome.

 

*ships Syphoneira some water from her cave* Guaranteed 100% safe. Contains traces of Life mana.

[Starscream]

Then you'd miss out on gifting, lineage making, and trading while other people get those ratio spots.

 

Seriously, multiclutch used to be the standard, I don't see what reason there is to get in such a pickle over it (although I still think rare multiclutch for all dragons would work best, or a scroll wide  multiclutch BSA).

 

I guess I can sort of see a reason to object if prizes are singled out exclusively but with the other two there should be zero cause to complain.

Gifting doesn't concern me much except to my closest friends. I'd probably drop one into T&L every once and again.

Lineage making has no interest to me. I collect vampires primarily.

And trading is not something I care about. I really only do one trade every couple of months.

If I had one(CB Prize) it would have a single permanent mate.

 

Multi-clutch was something I was more than glad to see go. I was able to breed my dragons for my use, and my use only, when I discovered they bred and dumped multiples, I made it a point of not bothering often. It would not bother me to have to stop breeding and just fish from the AP or cave.

 

I almost never drop to the AP unless it was entirely accidental or due to holidays. If I breed something and it is not the intended breed, I keep or vamp it. It does not go to the AP unless it is a vampire and then it is only worth whatever the going price is for a vampire. Pretty lineages valuables I typically vamp anyway because vamps are more useful/fun for me in the end.

 

As for prize dragons and their ratios. I see more prize dragons in the AP than I do silvers and golds. I think their ratio is fine.

 

edit: it only takes me 8 months to respond

Edited November 18, 2014 by Starscream

[Syphoneira]

While you're checking for chemicals, check for death mana mixing into the water. It's probably not that. You never know though. Could be Time mana too. That would be troublesome.

 

*ships Syphoneira some water from her cave* Guaranteed 100% safe. Contains traces of Life mana.

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

I'd been wondering about Scrambled with Onions & Bacon Mana, but I suspect you're right.

 

Thanks to you, my dragons could be flinging actual eggs all over the Cave next week.

 

 

Re-edit: lol, thanks again, Fiona, must have helped - I've had several eggs out of some of that lot since!

Edited November 20, 2014 by Syphoneira

[Walron]

I can testify for a fact that one of the reasons I left for almost half a year was because it was stressful having people give me dragons and me not be able to give anything back. I also returned because, again, it was to stressful to have all these IOU's left unpaid. I can also attest to the fact that I have turned down offers of multiple CB metals. But not for the reasons you think. I didn't turn them down because I thought it would be to little. Quite the opposite. I turned them down because I felt bad getting offered that, when in my close to a year of playing I have seen one paper (Which I caught) and one chicken (Which I didn't) (I've seen no metals) I don't believe in overcharging someone for something that I could only dream to get. Hell, I've never seen a Magma or Ice in the cave and only once saw a thunder (Which I caught) If this 'game' was 'equal' economically, we wouldn't require 'skill' to get dragons. Besides which, who cares about CB's? The only reason we have CB's is to make pretty lineages with I would gladly trade a 2nd gen for a pretty prize checker (Doesn't mean I will take more offers atm though )

[Esdren]

I'm not sure about the idea of raising their breeding ratios manually, I've always thought the rarity of dragons change automatically depending on how much of them we breed ourselves or how much their being caught incave (which doesn't matter in this case bc prizes), then that would be our own fault because we keep mass breeding them, and thats what makes them rare.

I'm not sure if what I said about ratios is correct, but even if there is a set ratio that never changes we can't blame it on the ratios itself, its more of our back luck, their meant to be metals and rare after all, we never complain like this about Silvers or Golds having a hard time breeding. Prizes do get their ratios tweaked during certain times of the year, mainly during the session when they are released. Every release has the same ability of high breeding ratios yet we don't complain about them not breeding well after they settle down.

My personal opinion is that I don't care much if the prizes ratios are changed or not, we can't blame the seldom successful breeding on the ratios but rather ourselves for our demand of the prizes themselves. If the prizes had a clear DECREASE in successful breeding however, I would think this was a problem, but from what I can see the ratios have stayed relatively the same since the release of the Tinsel, not counting the period in which they are being released.

Edited November 20, 2014 by suskekun222

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Besides which, who cares about CB's? The only reason we have CB's is to make pretty lineages with I would gladly trade a 2nd gen for a pretty prize checker (Doesn't mean I will take more offers atm though )

Unfortunately lineages are exactly why I care about CBs. I can't take a random high gen stair Silver Shimmer x White and turn it into the pretty Silver Shimmer x Sunsong checker that I dream of. We need CBs in order to start the lineages we want to make; if I can't convince CB owners to breed the 2gs I need to start making checkers, then I can't go anywhere. X___x

 

(That being said, that issue probably can't be fixed even by better breeding ratios--we'd just need more prize dragons in general. But that's a different topic...)

[Starscream]

Providing you can convince CB owners to cater to your needs. If they do not, you'd leave them be right? I think stairs are the safest lineage that does not require too much pressure on the CB owners. Breeding ratios, agreed, won't help in this case at all. Each year a few more prize dragons get thrown into the mix. It seems most are willing to spread the joy. It'll take a while to get any prize oriented lineage going to a decent level. But patience and persistence is a virtue.

[Reidragon]

Providing you can convince CB owners to cater to your needs. If they do not, you'd leave them be right? I think stairs are the safest lineage that does not require too much pressure on the CB owners. Breeding ratios, agreed, won't help in this case at all. Each year a few more prize dragons get thrown into the mix. It seems most are willing to spread the joy. It'll take a while to get any prize oriented lineage going to a decent level. But patience and persistence is a virtue.

This! They may be hard to breed but with enough persistance people can pull it off ! I don't really see why prizes need to multiclutch or have their ratios changed.