Jump to content
LibbyLishly

Unfreezing

Recommended Posts

Please read at least this first post before responding. I know it's long, but it will tell you EVERYTHING that has been discussed so far. Many of the concerns regarding abuse, including exploitation for trading, insta-adults, overuse, and circumventing scroll limits have been heavily discussed already and excellent solutions have been proposed. These ideas have been outlined in this post, which I am trying to keep updated as new ideas come in.

 

Note that the majority of information in this post is a summary of the ideas of those that have participated in the discussion. Anything that is my own thought is marked accordingly.

 

Update 1/1/18 - The suggestion as it now stands

 

Unfreeze would be a scroll action that would:

- Have a 53 week waiting period between the date of freezing and the date that the unfreezing action would become available

- Cause the hatchling to instantly grow up

- Each scroll would be allowed up to 12 unfreezes a year, regaining used unfreezes at the rate of 1 per month

 

Unfreeze would not:

- Be available on zombie hatchlings

- Have a fail rate

- Permit unfrozen dragons to be traded


These simple limitations would counter the potential abuse reflected in the concerns outlined later in this post. I have also still retained the many other ideas that were kicked around over the course of the thread at the end of this post for reference.

 

----------------------

Reasoning for limitations:

- 53 weeks: 1 full year + 1 week to strongly discourage using unfreeze to circumvent scroll limits during holidays in particular

- Instant adults after that period of time in order to avoid the confusion that scroll-locked hatchlings would inevitably bring

- 12 unfreezes to ensure players would have time to undo mistakes but is limited in order to discourage abuse

- Zombies are undead and should not be able to grow

- A fail rate is unnecessary with the severe time limitations

- Trading unfrozen dragons is just asking for exploitation.

----------------------

 

The reason this thread exists is due to this quote from TJ09, which can be found at the end of the (currently closed) thread One-Time-Only Holiday Unfreeze Option:

 

Quote
It's interesting that this discussion is revolving around a lot of different things regarding game mechanics (under the guise of the term "rules"), and when they can and can't change. One of the important distinctions that I think has been overlooked in the comparisons between holiday limits and this suggestion is that one involved removing a game mechanic completely, whereas this suggestion is for making a one-time exception to the established "rules," rather than actually changing. Although such an exception would set a precedent for future exceptions, it doesn't involve any real change to how DC works.

 

In general, I'm not really in favor of making such exceptions. If there are cases where exceptions are necessary, it probably means that the mechanic is flawed, meaning there are more fundamental problems at hand.

 

For example, in this case, the argument comes down to: should freezing be permanent? Those who froze their CB holidays years ago certainly did so with the expectation that it would be, but is it reasonable to believe that changes in conditions should give people the chance to revise their decisions?

 

I happen to believe not--there will almost certainly always be cases where an action is performed that the user later regrets, and while good software usability might dictate that users should be able to undo their changes as much as possible, the concept of making mistakes is a fundamental part of games that, when removed, takes away from the positive reaction of succeeding.

 

tl;dr: I don't like making exceptions to rules, and I haven't seen anything in this thread to convince me that doing so in this case is worthwhile, nor have I seen anything to indicate that the underlying mechanism of permanent freezing is flawed. Feel free to create a thread to discuss that (yes, I know people have done so in the past, and have been shot down because "freezing is meant to be permanent." That sort of negative reaction to topics in suggestions is whole other discussion).

 

As this discussion has gone on, it has turned out that many people do feel that an Unfreeze action would be beneficial to the cave at large. Therefore, we are now attempting to make such an action as fair and non-exploitable as possible.

____________________________________________________________

 

How would the ability to unfreeze, with the proposed limitations, benefit the cave?

1. Players who froze a hatchling before a rule change (i.e. the ability to collect more than 2 of past holidays) would be able to alter the freezing based on new circumstances.

2. New players and lineage collectors would benefit from having more CB/good-lineaged past breeds in the mating pool (not a huge deal, given that all discontinued breeds have been rereleased, but still).

3. People who made a stupid mistake as a newcomer (or even as an older player) would be able to undo that action, albeit much later, giving them a better overall playing experience.

4. The action, instead of creating an exception for a certain group as was formerly suggested, would be available to everyone.

5. More congruent RP: If we're powerful enough mages to cast a spell of eternal youth, why wouldn't we be able to lift it?

6. The people who would have use for such an action would be happy and so would have an enhanced playing experience. If you don't have use for this, note that unfreezing would be forced upon no one; those who have frozen hatchlings who don't want to unfreeze them wouldn't have to. One person's decision to unfreeze would in no way affect the scroll of someone who didn't want to unfreeze.

 

____________________________________________________________

 

Summary of concerns and the solutions proposed, updated as of page 49:

 

Concern: Users will exploit this to trade rare unfrozen hatchlings for exorbitant prices.

Proposed solutions: Either cause unfrozen hatchlings to grow up immediately or to be otherwise untradeable (locked to the scroll) as they finish growing.

 

Concern: Users will freeze a hatchling and them immediately unfreeze it to achieve an insta-adult, freeing up hatchling spaces or having the adult immediately available to breed OR Users will simply freeze hatchlings to free up hatchling slots if they're collecting (e.g. from the AP), knowing that they can unfreeze at their leisure later.

Proposed solutions: A combination of the following:

A. Hatchlings cannot be unfrozen until they have been frozen for a long period time, e.g. a month, a year, or 13 months;

B. Frozen hatchlings can only be unfrozen if a hatchling slot is available on the scroll, and either the hatchling's original timer will be restored to take up that slot or, if the data does not exist or if it's simpler, then the timer will be reset to 7 days.

C. Only allow a hatchling to be unfrozen on the anniversary of its freezing and reset its timer to 7 days, thus discouraging exploitation of this feature during holidays.

 

Concern: Users will overuse this feature.

Proposed solutions: A. Have a limited number of unfreezing slots, just like there are freezing slots;

B. Have a lengthy, scroll-wide cooldown after each use (RP reasoning: to help the scroll recover from the magical reversal of such a powerful spell).

 

Concern: The player made a choice when s/he froze that hatchling, and they should have to live with those consequences.

Responses: In real life you can fix a bad decision.

This game is ever-changing and lots of things that used to be permanent are now changeable.

We may be asking the wrong question in the first place.

It's a game, not real life.

My personal view on the whole thing.

 

Concern: OMG THE RATIOS!?!?!!

Response: This is an older concern that may not exist any longer, but current information tells us that dragons a year old or more don't count toward the ratios anyways, so the proposed year-long waiting period should prevent an Unfrozen hatchling from having any effect whatsoever on any ratios, if it even would have to begin with.

My own response: (From 2014, but I'm leaving it here anyway) I figure TJ can pretty much handle the ratio question himself. It's not like he's actually told us the formula he uses for ratios; he's the only one who knows how they actually work, so it won't exactly help for us to worry about it. If he decides to implement this, I'm quite sure he'd take ratios into account. Hatchlings restored to growth shouldn't affect ratios at all, since I believe those only apply to egg generation. It also seems like a pretty big assumption to think that enough 'desirable' breeds will suddenly be unfrozen and bred as to negatively affect the ratios of those breeds. I haven't really been impressed with any of the arguments claiming that this will have a devastating effect on the ratios thus far, so I remain really not worried about it. For more, see these excellent posts.

 

Concern: This suggestion exclusively benefits the oldest/richest players who have the rarest things to unfreeze.

Response: Anyone can make a mistake at any time. This is NOT just about CB Holidays - and with the 2017 rerelease of those breeds, there would be no trading benefit to owners of older CBs. Unfreezing would be for personal reasons only.

 

This suggestion is for literally any player who froze a dragon that they have come to regret freezing, whether because the game changed, their play style changed, they were half asleep and didn't realize they had frozen the wrong  hatchling, or they were just new and didn't realize how consequential that freeze was going to be. There is nothing elitist about this suggestion whatsoever (and for what it's worth, I, the OP, do not knowingly have a frozen hatchling I would intend to use this on at this time). If anything, it offers hope to newer players that they will be able to undo a particular kind of mistake.

 

Concern: What about ungendered hatchlings?

Response: You would have no ability to influence the gender. Sorry. 

____________________________________________________________

 

Discussion summaries & other thoughts, here for reference

 

Example wording for the action

 

Other ideas that were ultimately laid aside in favor of the simple action being proposed:

-- Fail rates with chance of abandonment to the wilderness

-- This action as a BSA

-- A once-a-year unfreezing event like reviving Zombies on Halloween

-- Partial unfreezing: an S1 hatchling would become an S2 and be able to be refrozen, an S2 would be come an adult

-- Making the unfrozen adult unable to ever breed - for most people, this restriction renders the suggestion utterly pointless.

-- Only allow unfreezing on the anniversary of the freeze

-- Various other complicated compromises

-- Link to a more recent unfreezing idea that includes a cost to the player in order to unfreeze: Freeze Switch

 

____________________________________________________________

 

If you think freezing should continue to be permanent and should not change, please state reasons why changing it would have a negative impact. We all know that the message you receive when freezing tells you it will be permanent. The question is really whether it is necessary that the game retain status quo in this area, or if instead a change would be beneficial and fair. "Don't freeze if you don't want it to be permanent" is not helpful toward this discussion.

Edited by LibbyLishly

Share this post


Link to post

I think it's completely acceptable as a permanent action. I haven't seen any flaws with it myself. The main purpose of it seems to be allowing people who keep a hatchling sprite without worrying about that hatchling dying or growing up. The actions page even says "Permanently prevent the hatchling from maturing into an adult." This alone is enough for me to think long and hard about the kind of dragons I want to freeze. So when I go to freeze dragons, I picked dragons that I knew I would never look back on and thing "Oh, gee I shouldn't have done that!"

 

I think freezing is fine if it stays as it is (though an increased limit in how many dragons you can freeze in a given period would be nice). The only exception is with the Christmas and, if the breed limit is dropped, the Valentine's day dragons. Because you only ever get the two cave borns of those dragons. It does seem a little unfair to those who froze one of their cave born holidays because they were under the impression they were only going to ever be allowed to have those two dragons, and they wanted an adult and hatchling sprite. It would be more than acceptable to me for a one time only unfreezing so that those frozen cave born dragons can grow up.

 

With other dragons, it doesn't seem as important that they be allowed to unfreeze. It's not unknown knowledge that freezing is a permanent action. (And I'm not trying to sound rude at all, I'm just really really horrible at trying to find ways to explain a thought) If someone might regret freezing a certain dragon, they should really give more time into thinking about going through with the action before going through with it. And, even though with many breeds of dragon it seems almost impossible, you can get other cave borns of that breed of dragon at some point. I know that doesn't mean much, especially if a user froze a cave born gold or silver way back in the day and are kicking themselves for it now, but there is always the chance you'll get another, slim as it may be.

 

With all that being said, I'd like it to be known that if someone came up with a good idea and reasoning that would allow frozen dragons to be unfrozen, I would not oppose it. I would just like a good, reasonable method that is not just "I wanna unfreeze. *goes to actions and uses a new unfreeze option*"

Share this post


Link to post

Yes, freezing should be permanent.

 

I think the biggest side effect of changing this would be an insane inflation in the market value. Those amazing catchers would have the ability to catch as many CB golds as they wanted and then trade for something all at once. Instead of the way we trade now, people would start expecting you to have a frozen hoard of rare dragons to choose from for a trade.

 

Another reason I'm against it is because it's essentially a way of getting around the hatchling limits. Got 20 growing things already and want to catch a new egg? No worries! Freeze some hatchlings until some others grow up and you're good to go!

 

Sorry to anyone who is for this, but I'm really against it. I don't see any good that can come out of it (other than an initial unfreezing of past holidays, etc.) but a lot of bad.

Edited by StormWizard212

Share this post


Link to post

I could live with the revive option - maybe THAT as a BSA for - something that needs more appeal xd.png

 

It should NOT "always be available and successful". On the contrary - it should have AT LEAST a 50% fail rate - and a fail should be permanent. (Freezing was always supposed to be permanent, and saying now that all of a sudden it is totally reversible to many steps too far, for me.)

 

They SHOULD grow up at once - and (critically for me, and to avoid people using it as a loophole to get around limits) it should not be available on a hatchling until that hatchling has been frozen for - say - at least a month. And you can't EVER refreeze - hence the grow up at once thing. And like freezing - only so many in a month - I'd make that number VERY small. Maybe ONCE a month in total, ONLY.

 

And however the fail works, it should NOT result in death - it should only leave the hatchling where it was for ever.

 

I don't think a temporary freeze to help with teleport works at all.

 

All that said - I don't mind that much one way or the other smile.gif

Edited by fuzzbucket

Share this post


Link to post
Yes, freezing should be permanent.

 

I think the biggest side effect of changing this would be an insane inflation in the market value. Those amazing catchers would have the ability to catch as many CB golds as they wanted and then trade for something all at once. Instead of the way we trade now, people would start expecting you to have a frozen hoard of rare dragons to choose from for a trade.

 

Another reason I'm against it is because it's essentially a way of getting around the hatchling limits. Got 20 growing things already and want to catch a new egg? No worries! Freeze some hatchlings until some others grow up and you're good to go!

 

Sorry to anyone who is for this, but I'm really against it. I don't see any good that can come out of it (other than an initial unfreezing of past holidays, etc.) but a lot of bad.

Oh man, I didn't even think about it being used this way. This is another big reason I feel it shouldn't be used for regular dragons. I don't like the idea of people sneaking their way around hatchling+egg limits.

Share this post


Link to post

I also think freezing should be permanent. I am also against an unfreeze BSA - the only way I might agree with an unfreeze BSA is if it had a fairly high chance to kill the frozen hatchie instead. Freezing is something that should be carefully considered in my opinion, just as other actions like killing, abandoning or releasing a dragon.

 

PS: Could you add a poll to this topic?

Share this post


Link to post

PS: Could you add a poll to this topic?

I hate polls, because there is no way to change your answer even if you've changed your mind. I've run into that so many times it's not funny. So no, for now, I have no plans to add a poll.

 

ETA and unrelated to polls: I feel like I should point out that I have no stake in this game and don't care either way about whether the freezing mechanic is changed. I just figured, hey, TJ recommended we discuss the mechanic itself since he will not be making exceptions for holidays, so let's discuss that mechanic.

Edited by LibbyLishly

Share this post


Link to post

I hate polls, because there is no way to change your answer even if you've changed your mind. I've run into that so many times it's not funny. So no, for now, I have no plans to add a poll.

It would definitely get you the opinions of more people. The only reason I read and posted in this thread is that is still <1 page. A suggestion/discussion with only a handful of people participating is not really representative for such a large community.

 

ETA: But I agree that changing one's mind should be possible. But that's a whole new suggestion, and I bet it has been suggested and shot down before sad.gif

Edited by Ha-Ki

Share this post


Link to post
I think the biggest side effect of changing this would be an insane inflation in the market value. Those amazing catchers would have the ability to catch as many CB golds as they wanted and then trade for something all at once. Instead of the way we trade now, people would start expecting you to have a frozen hoard of rare dragons to choose from for a trade.

The consensus in the other thread was that there would be no window where an unfrozen hatchling is a tradeable dragon - i.e. unfreezing it would make it mature instantly.

 

 

 

I could really get behind this suggestion for the general case if it were an option that you can do one year (or even just half) after you froze the dragon (possibly still with a failure rate). Enough of a timespan to make it really inconvenient to unfreeze dragons, but a way to undo mistakes, regardless. If you still want to unfreeze it a year after you froze it, you probably have a good reason to do so.

 

(Regarding the hatchling limit, I'd not in the least mind if the action took up an egg slot for a week. In-game reason could be that you need to care for the unfrozen dragon despite it being an adult - check for side-effects of the unfreeze spell, keep an eye on it that it doesn't spontaneously combust, that sort of thing... laugh.gif )

Share this post


Link to post

I don't Freeze hatchies myself (do have one messy that followed me home from the AP which I didn't want growing up on my scroll, preferring to avoid having Frozen hatchies, but willing to make allowances for circumstances) so this isn't something I ordinarily think about much.

 

But as far as I know, the big issue with unFreezing hatchies is one involving a concern that people will use it to 'tuck some hatchies aside' in order to make room for more dragons, planning to unFreeze them later.

 

It seems to me that, looking at TJ's explanation - and without suggesting an alteration to game mechanics of which I know nothing of potential issues, apart from the previously mentioned concern - a BSA suggested earlier which was similar to that of the Zombies, only involving the lifting of the 'eternal youth' spell, with a considerable cool-down, (2 weeks, scroll-wide? a month?) would be something with a similar precedent established (Zombies are forever and can never die, but NOW, with this dragon's powers, you can expunge them,) although this would then be a permanent addition, rather than a short-term response to altered circumstance.

 

If possible to code, it might be an idea to have a requirement that any spell release could only be performed on dragons which had been frozen for at least a full month, ensuring that this could not be routinely used to gain more room for hatchies, and that the most essential would be chosen for any such spell unmaking.

 

And they would need to grow up instantly, to prevent trades, this being another concern I've heard voiced.

 

Edit: lol, I'm so slow-moving that there were no comments when I first pressed 'reply' and went to get my coffeeeee that had just come through - and reading through I notice that fuzzy and I have points in common.

 

Although I must say that I personally don't much like ineffective actions that can fail.

 

Does (assuming I'm remembering the name of the Zombie-vaporizing BSA correctly) Expunge have a high fail rate, or a permanent one?

Edited by Syphoneira

Share this post


Link to post
The consensus in the other thread was that there would be no window where an unfrozen hatchling is a tradeable dragon - i.e. unfreezing it would make it mature instantly.

Then it would be exploited to freeze s1 hatchlings and unfreeze them a moment later, making them insta-grow-up.

Share this post


Link to post

My opinion, just my opinion. I do not presume to speak for anyone else.

 

I'm against this. Sometimes, whether in RL or in a game, we have to take consequences and responsibility for our actions. Many suggestions and suggested BSAs seem to be aimed at removing consequences and responsibility and allow us to undo bad/unfortunate choices. Even in the fantasy world of a game we should have to live with our mistakes and find ways to manage without an "undo" button for every possible regrettable action.

Share this post


Link to post
Then it would be exploited to freeze s1 hatchlings and unfreeze them a moment later, making them insta-grow-up.

That's why there has to be some limits to how many times you can use it or at least a certain amount of time you have to wait after freezing to unfreeze it again

 

I honestly don't know if unfreezing it would work out in DC

Share this post


Link to post

Then it would be exploited to freeze s1 hatchlings and unfreeze them a moment later, making them insta-grow-up.

As I and others said - you cannot unfreeze for a decent period to prevent exploiting it to get around limits - I said at least a month.

 

Pink gothic has a good one - "it has to take up a slot till it would have grown up." Freeze and it still counts as a hatchie till it would have hit 3.23. (I have to say this would REALLY annoy me, as I rarely freeze, and only do so when it was planned ahead (like my s2 yulebuck, wanted and planned from the second I heard the limits were off !) but I think it is the only fair thing...)

 

WAIT - or do you mean that if you unfreeze, the unfrozen newly grown dragon takes a hatchie slot for a week, pinkgothic ? THAT works for me. Like a failed bite counts as a kill - like the full two weeks of the actual kill action.

 

I, too, hate polls until the day we can change our votes if a thread convinces us that we were wrong. I don't vote much any more - except for "how many x y z" have you got... I do NOT vote in suggestions now, for this kind of reason. I've had a complete about face three times after I'd voted, and I still counted as against the idea.

 

I did ask for votes to be changeable - but in a general feedback thread. I think I will start a thread smile.gif

Edited by fuzzbucket

Share this post


Link to post

Then it would be exploited to freeze s1 hatchlings and unfreeze them a moment later, making them insta-grow-up.

 

 

I believe that virtually everyone supporting this agrees that un-spelled Frozen hatchies should appear instantly as adults, and if you read the comments above, that there should be specific wait periods for spell-lifting and limits on the frequency of use, in order to avoid the very concerns you and others mention. smile.gif

 

 

Edit: as usual, fuzzy hath ninja.gif ed me!

Edited by Syphoneira

Share this post


Link to post

I would rather there be no unfreezing if it meant that every time I freeze I must now wait until it could have grown up to have a spot free. I love freezing inbred and messy lined dragons, this would put a halt to that entirely, I would rather dump them back in the AP than deal with them for the entire time it takes for them to grow to an adult.

 

If that was NOT included in the deal, I really have no problem with unfreezing providing they grow up immediately. On the wait, I do think a year is a little long, by that time most would have forgotten they intended to unfreeze X dragon. Six months is probably the longest wait time it should take, though I favor a month.

Edited by Nectaris

Share this post


Link to post
WAIT - or do you mean that if you unfreeze, the unfrozen newly grown dragon takes a hatchie slot for a week, pinkgothic ? THAT works for me. Like a failed bite counts as a kill - like the full two weeks of the actual kill action.

I was thinking an egg slot, actually, but a hatchie slot is also fine. And yes, this is what I meant. smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post
I would rather there be no unfreezing if it meant that every time I freeze I must now wait until it could have grown up to have a spot free. I love freezing inbred and messy lined dragons, this would put a halt to that entirely, I would rather dump them back in the AP than deal with them for the entire time it takes for them to grow to an adult.

 

If that was NOT included in the deal, I really have no problem with unfreezing providing they grow up immediately. On the wait, I do think a year is a little long, by that time most would have forgotten they intended to unfreeze X dragon. Six months is probably the longest wait time it should take, though I favor a month.

No - the hold up would be for people who froze to clear a slot and then tried to get around it by unfreezing at once when they'd done whatever they wanted to do. A frozen hatchie would be as it is now. An UNFROZEN one would take the slot it would have taken if had been left to grow up in the first place - i.e. takes as as long to grow up and free a slot as it would have done in the first place.

 

...like.

 

I think I need coffee...

Share this post


Link to post

Edited top post to reflect the ideas that everyone currently agrees on.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm sorry, but I can't support any sort of general use of reversing the freezing of hatchlings. I sort of saw the argument for unfreezing previous holiday hatchlings, but since TJ shot that down as an exception to the rule, I am against any change.

 

The message when you freeze is very clear. This is a permanent action! I don't see why that should change. When you froze a hatchling there was no expectation of being able to ever unfreeze it.

 

Is there any compelling reason to change this? To me it is just unnecessary. Admittedly I am not in the habit of freezing hatchlings, but even if I were I have a hard time imagining that there is any need for this change. A few people making bad choices in the hatchlings they chose to freeze? I'm sorry, but that is too bad. Not a reason to change the whole dynamic of freezing.

Share this post


Link to post

The message when you freeze is very clear. This is a permanent action! I don't see why that should change. When you froze a hatchling there was no expectation of being able to ever unfreeze it.

Although I'm against/still kinda doubting this unfreezing action (it's a very easy feature to be abused or to just cause troubles for others), I don't think the existence of a message in the freezing action should be a reason to refuse the change, since rules have changed many times in DC. TJ has even done things he said he never would do

Edited by LaHaine

Share this post


Link to post

If there is unfreezing, I do think it should be a once a month thing. If it's a BSA, I think if it's universal it wouldn't really be all that valuable. I think it should maybe be one month (or longer) for each individual dragon's cooldown.

 

Personally I don't think any dragons currently fit that suggestion, however. Maybe Embers (they frequent hot environments), Ultraviolets, Spitfires, or Yellow-Crownes, as they all love hot environments and could easily focus the heat on them to unfreeze them.

 

It doesn't HAVE to be a BSA, though.

 

Also in support of chances of failure to work and even death. It would suck if something like a certain CB (like a holiday) was attempted to be unfrozen but was killed, but that's the risk you have to take.

 

This reminded me of Axolotls (if you don't know what they are, just think about the salamanders with the finger gills, you know, adorable? pink usually? click here:  Axolotl  )

The Axolotl stays in it's infant form... However if you were to raise the temperature and change their enviorment a bit, they have the ability to develop into full Tiger Salamanders : Tiger Salamander

 

So lets say the temperature in your cave raises, it would be a GREAT BSA for one of the hotter dragons!

This was a post in another thread and is the reason I mention the hot environment.

Share this post


Link to post

I really think that freezing should be permanent. It is an action, like kill and abandon, that forever changes that hatchling in relation to your scroll.

 

I do, however miss the days when our frozen hatchlings would still gender after freezing. I know a lot of people were upset when their frozens would gender after they specifically froze them as S1, but, as I am not a sprite collector, as much as a "freeze it so I can unlock myself to hunt again" collector, most of my freezes remain S1.

Share this post


Link to post

Unfreezing would be a great BSA. I'm one of those people who froze something they shouldn't have and I don't buy the whole "no because no" argument. There is no reason for freezing to stay permanent except to ...make the game harder. I'm not masochistic, so I support unfreezing tongue.gif

 

edit: Of course, dragons should not be tradable after unfreezing.

Edited by natli

Share this post


Link to post
Although I'm against/still kinda doubting this unfreezing action (it's a very easy feature to be abused or to just cause troubles for others), I don't think the existence of a message in the freezing action should be a reason to refuse the change, since rules have changed many times in DC. TJ has even done things he said he never would do

I understand that. But my argument has to do with already frozen things. When you froze them there was no reason to think you could ever change that, so why the sudden need to break the whole system of freezing?

 

I want to know what the compelling need is to change something that has been part of the game since day 1 (as far as I know). I am not against change in all its forms, but I do feel like a change this game-changing should have some very good argument in its favor and I haven't seen that.

 

What I have seen is the need to put a lot of restrictions and limits on it in order to keep it from being abused. All of those restrictions take the very simple act of freezing a hatchling to preserve it in that adorable baby stage, and make it a very complicated and confusing system of checks and balances!

Share this post


Link to post

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.