Remote Biomes

[Spelunker]

What about people who go inactive? Should they get access, vs. a bronze trophy player who is actively working to achieve their scroll goals?

[demonicvampiregirl]

What about people who go inactive? Should they get access, vs. a bronze trophy player who is actively working to achieve their scroll goals?

I don't think those guys should be penalized for that. People go inactive for various reasons. No internet, no time, school is getting in the way, ect.

[boscodelta]

I actually really like this idea

+1

[~!~]

And the people who don't want to play like that? What about them then? Should they be forever locked out because they don't play like others?

 

I agree with Pokemonfan. If that gets put in what would be the point in me even vising those caves if I cannot access all of them. That is why I am against anything trophy or amount based. This would be better if it was based only on the amount of time you have played. That is only fair to everyone so their playing styles do not get ruined and are forced into playing another way than they intend. I don't play like those who obtain only CBs or breed only even gen. Why should I force them to play the way I do (by collecting whatever I want, whenever I want) just to let them into a new biome?

It isn't like there aren't ways around this. Trading, for one. Users who never interact with other players enough to trade with them wouldn't know the special biome even exists, let alone how to get the dragons from it. Also: catching things off the AP. If there's 5 dragons in the special biome and one of them is really unpopular, CBs will probably show up in the AP just like CBs of blockers from the regular cave. Or, you can get ones with lineages. Heck, if this is introduced, there will probably be a hundred threads in SD for gifting eggs from the secret biome.

 

If you really can't handle having more than however many dragons on your scroll for whatever reason, and you really need to catch your own eggs (or you really don't want to use the forum, or otherwise talk to DC players), and you really need CBs, something's going to have to give. If you can cave on any one of those points, you will be able to get these eggs.

 

If all else fails, you could just catch 500 dragons and then release the ones you don't want after you've caught what you need from the special biomes. That seems a sorry option, considering there's no mass-release function, but it's an option.

 

Or, for that matter, if TJ implements something like scroll tabs, the Daydream's "shroud" thing (is that still in the works?) or any other way of hiding all the dragons you've caught but don't want to see, then you can have as many dragons as you want without worrying about an ugly scroll. If TJ implements an in-cave market for trading, you won't have to actually talk to other people to get trades. So, perhaps something like a "veteran's biome" should wait until one of these features is implemented.

 

In other news: Inactivity would not be penalized, just not rewarded. The "veteran's biome" rewards people for playing the game. If you're not raising dragons, you're not playing the game. Sure, you could be hunting, but until you click on an egg, you aren't affecting anything, so from the game's point of view, you might as well not be there at all.

[Fiona]

And the people who don't want to play like that?

(bold added to quote by me)

 

I'm just pointing out that play style is a choice. Elitism implies a closed group excluding those not part of that group, with no avenue for the others to choose to join. There is no such group on DC. You cannot be "blackballed" from joining the group of people with gold trophies. You cannot be "blackballed" from joining the group with CB prizes.

 

For those not familiar with that term, "blackballed", it arose in 18th century gentlemen's clubs. In order to join such a club one needed a sponsor - someone who was already a member. That sponsor would submit ones names as a member candidate. The current members would then vote by secretly choosing a marble -either white for yes, or black for no, and dropping that marble into a closed box. Once voting was finished the box would be opened. If there were any black marbles you were in. If someone had voted no however, you were blackballed. And out.

 

--that is a perfect example of elitism at work. And that's not what we have on DC.

 

Anyone can choose to limit what they put on their scroll, and limit the number of dragons they have. They do this accepting the consequences of their choice. Anyone can choose to work toward having more dragons, being less selective. And they also accept the consequences of their choice. In the first case, they choose to have lower trophies and less egg slots, or the other privileges that accompany higher trophies. In the second case they accept that their scroll may not be as tidy as others. They also accept the other privileges that the higher trophy brings. It's choice.

 

Anyone can choose to enter the raffles for the prize dragons. Anyone can choose not to enter. Everyone who enters has the exact same chance to win for each entry made. (and that speaks to the reason why on the recipes only the first time you made a raffle recipe it counted towards the raffle. Everyone had the option to make the exact same number of entry recipes.) Whether or not you win is a matter of luck, but your chance of winning was exactly the same as everyone else. That is not elitism, that is luck, or lack thereof. I wasn't lucky. I wasn't lucky winning the lotto last time I bought a ticket either. Does the fact that I didn't get a few million dollars mean the lotto is elitist? No. My ticket had the same exact chance as every other ticket. The same principle applies here.

 

 

If some form of this suggestion were put in place, those biomes that could only be accessed by achieving the required trophy level would also not be elitist. They would be open to anyone choosing to meet the criteria. In life we always have choices to make. Some of those choices affect what things we can choose later. Games always reflect this principle.

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't know what you think I'm trying to describe to you. I am trying to describe how the cave decides which eggs to produce. I'm not trying to describe how the eggs are distributed across everybody's scroll, or how they ought to be distributed. I'm describing how the cave tries to distribute them across all users, and I'm trying to explain why the "I want the same number of every breed" is detrimental to the game.

 

I don't know the actual ratios, but let's say, for simplicity's sake, that the cave makes 100 Neotropicals for every Gold, and those are the only breeds there are. If you want to have exactly one Gold and one Neo on your scroll, there are 99 Neos left over. If everybody wants exactly one Gold and one Neo, there are 99 Neos left over per player. If only half the players have their Golds, and everybody has a Neo, the other half will never get a Gold because nobody will ever pick up a Neo again, and they'll sit in the cave and on the AP with nobody picking them up. If everybody wants one Neo and unlimited Golds, the problem gets even worse, especially if breeding ratios are still tied to cave ratios. (Is that still the case?)

 

If I ran DC, everybody would be able to collect whatever dragons they wanted, and it would have no effect on the way the cave generates new eggs. But I don't, and as it stands, the players have a lot more power over the state of the cave than they should, without serious incentives to do what would be best for the site.

What I was responding to was your original post:

If I were to try and determine which dragons were rare and which were common from a given scroll, I ought to be able to see that.

 

My bold. That will never ever be possible. Sure, if you could see every single scroll in once place, but NOT from any give scroll.

[~!~]

My bold. That will never ever be possible. Sure, if you could see every single scroll in once place, but NOT from any give scroll.

I suppose you're right. The point I was trying to make is that you shouldn't have fifteen Golds and two of everything else. It's perfectly okay to have fifteen Waters and two of everything else, because they're not in high demand, and you're not taking "more than your share" if there isn't a lot of competition over them.

 

But like I said before, I don't think there ought to be concepts of "shares" and "fairness." Hoarding and greediness don't exist in DC. If someone wants to hoard Golds, they should have every right to do so. The problem occurs when someone else's hoard of Golds makes it harder for me to find Golds other than there just being fewer Golds to go around: The cave actually makes more of everything else to compensate. So if you have fifteen Golds, the only way you aren't screwing up the system is if you have a large number of commons to compensate for them.

 

I want to make it clear I'm not talking about morality here. I'm just talking about functionality. I don't have a problem with anyone's playstyle. What I have a problem with is an AP and a cave that don't move.

[shikaru]

The only reason I referred to it as elitism is because there is a time commitment required to get to a trophy level, which means that for the most part only older members would have access to these areas. I feel like this would leave a bad taste in the mouth of newer players, even if the older members aren't treating in an elitist way it still carries a bit of that connotation ("I worked for this" or "I've been around longer than you"); not saying anyone is claiming this viewpoint just that it can be construed as such from those you don't have the privilege.

 

You DO have to wait for eggs to hatch, and unless you're freezing hatchlings you have to wait for them to grow as well. This limits how much you can do and severely limits how quickly you can access a level. The only way to speed up the process is to incubate or pick up AP eggs (which most are at 5.5-7 days anyway) or hatchlings (uncommon to find). It is entirely unreasonable to make claims that it's 'not hard' to reach a new level. Sure, bronze isn't hard and silver isn't too bad, but gold is already difficult to reach and adding even more on top of that....what would be the next requirement after 500? After that? It will start to become insane.

 

Someone brought up BSAs, but to get a BSA you only need to get one dragon for it, Summon aside. If you want more uses you need more dragons, but there's no "You must have this many hundreds of dragons to use this ability". Besides, not having teleport or incubate doesn't mean you can't get a certain type of dragon. You could make arguments over Bite and Summon, but BSAs are an entirely different topic of discussion.

 

To concepts of 'fairness' and 'hoarding'....if there were no concerns at all in DC about those two things, then there would be no limits on holiday dragons and prize dragons wouldn't be breedable. The holiday limits are there so one person can't hoard them and allows more people the chance at picking up previous year's eggs that they missed (the multi-clutch also helps with this). Prize dragons being able to breed allows everyone a chance at getting a Tinsel or Shimmerscale, it may not always be the best chance but it gets easier as time goes on and arguing the fairness of the prizes isn't something for this thread. So while everything isn't necessarily 'equal', it is still geared towards being 'fair' so that everyone has at least a chance at getting every dragon.

 

Telling someone that "Dragon Y is only available in this special biome that you don't have access to until you get XXX number of dragons" is ludicrous. I also feel that it IS forcing how people play, because if someone wants to catch one of those dragons for themselves they have to just collect whatever they can get their hands on or wait an insane amount of time...otherwise they have to rely and hope that trades will crop up that they like or can contribute to. So while you can make claims that they're "choosing to forgo those privileges", it isn't right to force someone to either play one way or give up access to said privileges.

[Vhale]

I wouldn't say it's geared towards being fair when 1 person can catch more metals than 75 other people. Because unless you have fast reflexes, you're never going to get one unless you get lucky via a gift. I find it odd that people find that situation more "fair" than having to spend a month or two working towards a goal of getting to a biome. Not really any different than someone who wants an even gen lineage having to work a couple months for that lineage. And they have to either trade, or catch, deal with refusals, wrong breedings, egg limits. But, those are challenges, not elitism, because they CAN work towards them... if they CHOOSE to. No one else can stop them, by click skill or anything else.

 

Now some people will never get those even-gens because they don't like to work on them. That is their choice. Should that mean we should get rid of lineages because it doesn't support their play style? Play style shouldn't be used as a trump card to prohibit other people from enjoying a new feature. We even have people using it as an excuse to not release new dragons. On a collecting site. o.O

[olympe]

@shikaru: I don't think that your examples are necessarily the only way to see things.

 

True, you can use incubate if you have only 1 red - but you can only incubate one egg every two weeks. However, for some play styles, it's of great advantage to be able to incubate every single egg - up to 21 every other day (if you take incu-hatchable eggs from the AP all the time).

 

You can also use Influence with only one pink, but in order to influence male and female, you need two pinks at the very least.

 

Or there is the magikarp badge - you only get it if you use the BSA splash about 100 times - whether you like this or not. Either do it and get the badge, or chose not to and forego the badge.

 

And, like you cannot breed blunas without skywings or UVs without spitfires, you can't catch your own veteran eggs without access to the biome (unless someone dumps them in the AP). But you can trade for them, ask to be gifted some, or wait for them to pop up in the AP, which would usually be very common around new releases.

 

So while everything isn't necessarily 'equal', it is still geared towards being 'fair' so that everyone has at least a chance at getting every dragon.

Totally not true. I'll never be able to get a bright pink, or another frill, or a CB tinsel/yule/holly/pumpkin/alt sweetling/vampire because I wasn't there to get them when they were available or didn't get them when they were (pumpkins and frills spring to mind here). I will never have all three snow angel varieties. Newer players will never get the firework badge or a number of other badges, nor will they be able to get all tricks or treats, or all Easter eggs.

 

Apart from that, as long as you're willing to stalk the AP (especially around new releases), get on a gifting list or ask a friend to gift you or are willing to trade for the dragons you can't access due to your own choices, you can still get them.

 

 

On another note, in the "more and bigger releases" thread, a number of people stated that the number of dragon breeds available in the cave was able to overwhelm newbies even now, so what is going to happen with even more breeds added? A veteran biome might just solve that problem. New players will find the first 90 or so regular breeds in the regular biomes. If there were a couple of veteran biomes, people would get something new to do once they uncover these, give more variety to players who have it all without confusing the heck out of newbies and allow for more breeds from the completed list to be used. (Right now, the completed list is roughly 500 dragons long, and recently, we've had a number of concepts being pulled for a release on a different site. Which means that we're losing art and artists! It might be no big deal yet, but who knows how things will develop during the next 2, 5 or 10 years?)

Edited March 21, 2013 by olympe

[shikaru]

Now some people will never get those even-gens because they don't like to work on them. That is their choice. Should that mean we should get rid of lineages because it doesn't support their play style? Play style shouldn't be used as a trump card to prohibit other people from enjoying a new feature. We even have people using it as an excuse to not release new dragons. On a collecting site. o.O

 

Except someone not feeling like working on a lineage is entirely different from cutting someone off from obtaining a breed of dragon unless they play a certain way.

 

Lineages are there for people who care about them, which not everyone does. However, everyone comes to DC because they like to collect the dragons.

 

 

@shikaru: I don't think that your examples are necessarily the only way to see things.

 

True, you can use incubate if you have only 1 red - but you can only incubate one egg every two weeks. However, for some play styles, it's of great advantage to be able to incubate every single egg - up to 21 every other day (if you take incu-hatchable eggs from the AP all the time).

 

You can also use Influence with only one pink, but in order to influence male and female, you need two pinks at the very least.

 

Or there is the magikarp badge - you only get it if you use the BSA splash about 100 times - whether you like this or not. Either do it and get the badge, or chose not to and forego the badge.

 

And, like you cannot breed blunas without skywings or UVs without spitfires, you can't catch your own veteran eggs without access to the biome (unless someone dumps them in the AP). But you can trade for them, ask to be gifted some, or wait for them to pop up in the AP, which would usually be very common around new releases.

 

Again, Incubate/Influence/Splash have no impact on one's ability to collect a type of dragon. The only BSA that really impacts that to a great extent (since Vampires are relatively easy to find in the AP) is Summon, but I don't think that arguing BSAs is the same as arguing such a hard limit on what dragons someone has access to.

 

The breed-only and hybrid breeds only require you to get TWO eggs for each, and none of them are rare, in fact most of them sit around in cave and AP for awhile before getting picked up. I see no problem there. I do however see a problem in requiring someone to obtain HUNDREDS of dragons to gain access to a breed.

 

 

Totally not true. I'll never be able to get a bright pink, or another frill, or a CB tinsel/yule/holly/pumpkin/alt sweetling/vampire because I wasn't there to get them when they were available or didn't get them when they were (pumpkins and frills spring to mind here). I will never have all three snow angel varieties. Newer players will never get the firework badge or a number of other badges, nor will they be able to get all tricks or treats, or all Easter eggs.

 

Apart from that, as long as you're willing to stalk the AP (especially around new releases), get on a gifting list or ask a friend to gift you or are willing to trade for the dragons you can't access due to your own choices, you can still get them.

 

 

Bright Pink and Frill are special cases, and I personally don't think it's right to have those sitting around while others have no access to them, but their unavailability was a choice of their artists and that's something I'll respect.

I also never stated everyone could get a CB of everything, and not everyone even cares about CBs. Still everyone has a CHANCE to get every holiday they missed when that time rolls around again. Alt Sweetlings I won't comment on given that I was inactive when Sweetlings were released and have no right to comment on the situation surrounding them. I also never said anything about badges, and they have absolutely no impact on someone's ability to collect dragons. As for the trick or treat and easter egg argument, I was inactive when holiday events were implemented (I left after Yulebuck release, so when it was only a dragon release), and really have no opinion on them. They're a little side distraction to the main purpose of the game, collecting and raising pixelated dragons.

Edited March 21, 2013 by shikaru

[Vhale]

Except someone not feeling like working on a lineage is entirely different from cutting someone off from obtaining a breed of dragon unless they play a certain way.

 

The only way a person could cut themself off from the dragons as put in this suggestion is by stopping to play. Literally, that is all. Because if they collect dragons in any way shape or form, they will eventually get the goal. Why should a person that doesn't play dictate how the site works to others that do play?

 

People can't get GONs unless they get trios. People can't get zombies unless they use the kill function. This is actually more relaxed than those restrictions imo.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Vhale

[shikaru]

The only way a person could cut themself off from the dragons as put in this suggestion is by stopping to play. Literally, that is all. Because if they collect dragons in any way shape or form, they will eventually get the goal. Why should a person that doesn't play dictate how the site works to others that do play?

 

People can't get GONs unless they get trios. People can't get zombies unless they use the kill function. This is actually more relaxed than those restrictions imo.

Because I just don't at all think it's right to say "Hey, collect this absurd number of dragons or you can't have these ones".

 

Sure, they may get there eventually, but it's entirely unfair to someone whose choice of play style means that it would take them several years to reach the required number.

 

Neither GONs nor Zombies require you to collect dragons in the hundreds.

Edited March 21, 2013 by shikaru

[Fiona]

requiring someone to obtain HUNDREDS of dragons to gain access to a breed.

They do have access though, just not direct access to the place they can pick up their own from the cave. Everyone would have the ability to have and raise the eggs. As in - access is the ability to accept the egg or click on it and get it when you see it.

 

Right now no one has access to frills or bright pinks. Those who had access before they were removed from the cave still have the ones they had then, but there is no more access. One has access to the various holiday breeds only during their respective holidays and only if one is under the limits, where there are set limits. One has access to the GoN only if one has the prerequisites (at least one of each breed of trio). One has access to the hybrids even if one does not own the parent breeds through the ap or trading/gifting. Most people do not, and never have had access to the alt sweetlings. Those who do have access to alt sweetlings do not have access to regular sweetlings. One cannot own both.

 

Your argument is that it isn't fair for people not to be able to pick up their own of a common breed from the cave. I'm not saying you're wrong. I haven't really decided yet. Yet, there is a difference between being able to have that dragon and having access to the place that dragon drops in the cave.

[Vhale]

Because I just don't at all think it's right to say "Hey, collect this absurd number of dragons or you can't have these ones".

 

Sure, they may get there eventually, but it's entirely unfair to someone whose choice of play style means that it would take them several years to reach the required number.

 

Neither GONs nor Zombies require you to collect dragons in the hundreds.

Hey, collect this absurd number of dragons or you can't have these ones

 

That is why people are discussing what that number should be, and why I left it open ended in the op. Because I'm not sure what people's idea of a fair number is. I know what I can do, but I don't assume that is right for others. And I think it would be cheesy for me to pick a number that just so happens to grant me access right off the bat.

 

But again, you are suggesting that the rest of us should be restricted by people that choose to NOT play. That's something I have to disagree with. I don't view it as a hardship to raise one dragon a week in a collecting game. And if we went by what people are complaining about, we should close the dragon requests. Because it's obvious that the 500 dragons on it will never be released, because it stresses people and makes their scrolls too big.

 

The GON and Zombies still require you to do something. A lot of people hate the kill function. Using it used to cause your entire collection to get burnt did it not? But, that was changed and we can't trade them either.

[demonicvampiregirl]

(bold added to quote by me)

 

I'm just pointing out that play style is a choice. Elitism implies a closed group excluding those not part of that group, with no avenue for the others to choose to join. There is no such group on DC. You cannot be "blackballed" from joining the group of people with gold trophies. You cannot be "blackballed" from joining the group with CB prizes.

 

For those not familiar with that term, "blackballed", it arose in 18th century gentlemen's clubs. In order to join such a club one needed a sponsor - someone who was already a member. That sponsor would submit ones names as a member candidate. The current members would then vote by secretly choosing a marble -either white for yes, or black for no, and dropping that marble into a closed box. Once voting was finished the box would be opened. If there were any black marbles you were in. If someone had voted no however, you were blackballed. And out.

 

--that is a perfect example of elitism at work. And that's not what we have on DC.

 

Anyone can choose to limit what they put on their scroll, and limit the number of dragons they have. They do this accepting the consequences of their choice. Anyone can choose to work toward having more dragons, being less selective. And they also accept the consequences of their choice. In the first case, they choose to have lower trophies and less egg slots, or the other privileges that accompany higher trophies. In the second case they accept that their scroll may not be as tidy as others. They also accept the other privileges that the higher trophy brings. It's choice.

 

Anyone can choose to enter the raffles for the prize dragons. Anyone can choose not to enter. Everyone who enters has the exact same chance to win for each entry made. (and that speaks to the reason why on the recipes only the first time you made a raffle recipe it counted towards the raffle. Everyone had the option to make the exact same number of entry recipes.) Whether or not you win is a matter of luck, but your chance of winning was exactly the same as everyone else. That is not elitism, that is luck, or lack thereof. I wasn't lucky. I wasn't lucky winning the lotto last time I bought a ticket either. Does the fact that I didn't get a few million dollars mean the lotto is elitist? No. My ticket had the same exact chance as every other ticket. The same principle applies here.

 

 

If some form of this suggestion were put in place, those biomes that could only be accessed by achieving the required trophy level would also not be elitist. They would be open to anyone choosing to meet the criteria. In life we always have choices to make. Some of those choices affect what things we can choose later. Games always reflect this principle.

I'm not saying elitism in the least but making it so it's trophy based or amount based is a bit far for me. They should have a equal oppurtunity just like any other person so the best choice would be to make it so it is based on the amount of time you have been on the site and not by how many dragons or what trophy level they have. Why should we punish a user just because they only play a certain way? It makes no since on why we should have to. This game has never been based on things like that so why start now with a new biome? Everyone has a fair chance from the start to get what they want and in contests why restrict a biome and make it the opposite?

[Herk]

I also never stated everyone could get a CB of everything, and not everyone even cares about CBs. Still everyone has a CHANCE to get every holiday they missed when that time rolls around again. Alt Sweetlings I won't comment on given that I was inactive when Sweetlings were released and have no right to comment on the situation surrounding them. I also never said anything about badges, and they have absolutely no impact on someone's ability to collect dragons. As for the trick or treat and easter egg argument, I was inactive when holiday events were implemented (I left after Yulebuck release, so when it was only a dragon release), and really have no opinion on them. They're a little side distraction to the main purpose of the game, collecting and raising pixelated dragons.

Read for a while (but not everything)

 

I personally like the idea of goals for players with loads of dragons, and I think this is a nice alternative to more trophies.

 

So to take up your argument why not make it so, that new dragons can be picked up in the veteran's biomes but can be normally bred? That way you would only have to collect if you want to have CB variants, which would make it very similar to the Holiday variants (better stil since they would be available all year around). If you wanted a CB you would be able to get there by hoarding and/or trading, so it shouldn't really impact too much on anyone's playstyle ^^

[shikaru]

That is why people are discussing what that number should be, and why I left it open ended in the op. Because I'm not sure what people's idea of a fair number is. I know what I can do, but I don't assume that is right for others. And I think it would be cheesy for me to pick a number that just so happens to grant me access right off the bat.

 

But again, you are suggesting that the rest of us should be restricted by people that choose to NOT play. That's something I have to disagree with. I don't view it as a hardship to raise one dragon a week in a collecting game. And if we went by what people are complaining about, we should close the dragon requests. Because it's obvious that the 500 dragons on it will never be released, because it stresses people and makes their scrolls too big.

 

The GON and Zombies still require you to do something. A lot of people hate the kill function. Using it used to cause your entire collection to get burnt did it not? But, that was changed and we can't trade them either.

I fail to see how saying that it isn't right to require someone to play for years to get access to certain breeds is the same as saying that we should restrict things because of "people who don't play". How is choosing to raise x number/type of dragons as opposed to xx number/type of dragons choosing to not play? It's still playing, just not the same way.

 

Releasing dragons also has nothing to do with restricting breeds from people.

 

Yes, GONs and Zombies require you to do something, but it's something that anyone regardless of how long they've been playing could do.

 

No one ever got burned for using the kill function. If you weren't allowed to use it, it wouldn't be there to begin with. Unless it suddenly became against the rules it 2009-2012, it has never been punishable.

 

Read for a while (but not everything)

 

I personally like the idea of goals for players with loads of dragons, and I think this is a nice alternative to more trophies.

 

So to take up your argument why not make it so, that new dragons can be picked up in the veteran's biomes but can be normally bred? That way you would only have to collect if you want to have CB variants, which would make it very similar to the Holiday variants (better stil since they would be available all year around). If you wanted a CB you would be able to get there by hoarding and/or trading, so it shouldn't really impact too much on anyone's playstyle ^^

 

I still don't like that idea simply because it relies on a select group of people being willing to gift/trade and the people who want the dragons being able to trade for them. It also is much harder for someone who doesn't use the forums to obtain things like that (the Holidays multi-clutch and end up in the AP for easy picking). Not everyone uses the forums. Sure, one could argue prizes here, but I don't think that "we already have this unfair thing" is an excuse to introduce more.

Edited March 21, 2013 by shikaru

[Slaskia]

If you wanted a CB you would be able to get there by hoarding and/or trading, so it shouldn't really impact too much on anyone's playstyle ^^

Unless one 'only' collected CBs of 'catchables' in the first place and in limited numbers. That playstyle would be excluded completely unless they were able to trade for those 'exclusive' biome CBs.

 

Only way to this could be as fair as possible is if you base access on the trophies that exist right now, or time/activity based.

 

Regardless, I still would rather have no more exclusive stuff, even if for most people they would be able to get those CBs eventually.

 

Edit: essentially what the awesome Shikaru said.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Slaskia

[Vhale]

I fail to see how saying that it isn't right to require someone to play for years to get access to certain breeds is the same as saying that we should restrict things because of "people who don't play". How is choosing to raise x number/type of dragons as opposed to xx number/type of dragons choosing to not play? It's still playing, just not the same way.

 

There are some people suggesting that it should be time based and some people who are not. Is it fair to the suggestion to flip to the worst-case-scenario to shout it down? Are you willing at all to consider a variety of time frames or numbers?

 

And to me, it IS fair to say that claiming people could never reach the goal or that it's too arderous is that they don't play. Because the op is clear that it's based on number collected. And the only way that number does not go up is if you... don't play.

 

If you aren't willing to consider time, or numbers, please tell us what you ARE willing to consider. Because atm all I can see if that you are saying that we must be bound by people who are not willing to collect or raise dragons.

[shikaru]

There are some people suggesting that it should be time based and some people who are not. Is it fair to the suggestion to flip to the worst-case-scenario to shout it down? Are you willing at all to consider a variety of time frames or numbers?

 

And to me, it IS fair to say that claiming people could never reach the goal or that it's too arderous is that they don't play. Because the op is clear that it's based on number collected. And the only way that number does not go up is if you... don't play.

 

If you aren't willing to consider time, or numbers, please tell us what you ARE willing to consider. Because atm all I can see if that you are saying that we must be bound by people who are not willing to collect or raise dragons.

I don't think that someone who has 1000 dragons and someone who has 5 should have different access to breed types.

 

Likewise, I also don't think that someone who has played for 5 years vs someone who has just started the game should have different access to breed types.

 

My opinion is that everyone should have the same access to the cave and AP with the same breeds as everyone else.

Edited March 21, 2013 by shikaru

[Herk]

Well if you want a GoN you need to catch 3 Trios and raise them to get the Summon BSA, even if you get a magma, an ice and a thunder as your first 3 eggs, then you will have to wait for all three to grow up to uise the summon which would take about 6 days (since you don't have any incubates in that example).

If you want all available species at least once (which are over a hundred) you would need to wait a couple of months (too lazy and tired to do the math).

If you want an adult Zombie you will have to wait til Halloween (which means up to a year) AND use the kill function - which seems a lot more unnatural to most players than hoarding (at least in my experience, judging by the outcry).

 

So what would be the elemental difference to veteran's biomes? The time you'd need to achieve it? Sorry but I actually LIKE when I have to put a bit of effort into something and I'm totally against this instant gratification has to be available NOW (yes I know that's doubled) idea.

 

Yes some people would have to decide if they wanted the new biomes more or to keep their current playing style.

 

When the new egg levels were introduced accompanying the trophies it was the same, until then I had only wanted to have two adults and 3 frozens of everything, which would have stuck me at Silver, I didn't complain or felt sad - I made a decision and changed my playstyle and I'm happy. If I hadn't changed it I probably would have been happy too.

 

Players adapt to changes and that's good. I don't think achievement biomes are unfair in any way they are just something new to adapt to.

 

A lot of stuff I'm doing today and which is integral part of my playstyle wasn't even possible when I started, does this mean we should go back in time and introduce teleport, incubate, influence and lineage view earlier, because it was unfair when I hadn't access to them and that hindered my style?

 

Sorry if that sounds rude or cynical (I really don't want to do that) I'm just trying to make a point by exaggerating a bit.

 

Edit: OK the discussion went on while I typed. I understand what you're saying Shikaru, but I think we'll have to agree to disaggre on this one then.

Edited March 21, 2013 by herk

[shikaru]

Well  if you want a GoN you need to catch 3 Trios and raise them to get the Summon BSA, even if you get a magma, an ice and a thunder as your first 3 eggs, then you will have to wait for all three to grow up to uise the summon which would take about 6 days (since you don't have any incubates in that example).

 

However, if Player A has played for 4 years and has 600 dragons and Player B has played for 1 week and has 4 dragons and neither of them have any trios, they both have an equal chance at catching the trios and then getting a GON out of it (internet connection speeds notwithstanding as that's not something that DC has any control over).

 

If you want all available species at least once (which are over a hundred) you would need to wait a couple of months (too lazy and tired to do the math).

 

If you want a Purple dragon there is nothing hindering you from getting that. There is no requirement to get X dragon before Y dragon, outside of breedables and GON, and everyone still has access to the same breeds at the same time.

 

If you want an adult Zombie you will have to wait til Halloween (which means up to a year) AND use the kill function - which seems a lot more unnatural to most players than hoarding (at least in my experience, judging by the outcry).

Which is a choice, but there's nothing restricting someone from trying to get a zombie on Halloween. Also everyone has to wait until that time. No one has access to it special from someone else.

 

So what would be the elemental difference to veteran's biomes? The time you'd need to achieve it? Sorry but I actually LIKE when I have to put a bit of effort into something and I'm totally against this instant gratification has to be available NOW (yes I know that's doubled) idea.

 

Not saying everything should be 'instant gratification'. I'm okay with additional trophy levels and maybe some benefit there. I am NOT at all okay with exclusive breeds.

 

Yes some people would have to decide if they wanted the new biomes more or to keep their current playing style.

 

When the new egg levels were introduced accompanying the trophies it was the same, until then I had only wanted to have two adults and 3 frozens of everything, which would have stuck me at Silver, I didn't complain or felt sad - I made a decision and changed my playstyle and I'm happy. If I hadn't changed it I probably would have been happy too.

 

Players adapt to changes and that's good. I don't think achievement biomes are unfair in any way they are just something new to adapt to.

 

A lot of stuff I'm doing today and which is integral part of my playstyle wasn't even possible when I started, does this mean we should go back in time and introduce teleport, incubate, influence and lineage view earlier, because it was unfair when I hadn't access to them and that hindered my style?

New things are fine, exclusivity is not in my opinion.

 

Sorry if that sounds rude or cynical (I really don't want to do that) I'm just trying to make a point by exaggerating a bit.

'Tis fine. I'm probably not coming off too kindly anyway. X3;

 

Edit: OK the discuussion went on while I typed. I understand what you're saying Shikaru, but I think we'll have to agree to disaggre on this one then.

Aaand just now saw this too. X3; I type lots. Hope you don't mind that I still felt like responding to this. Yeah, this is my opinion and I understand that not everyone is going to gree, but I'm going to argue it all the same because I do feel strongly about this.

Edited March 21, 2013 by shikaru

[Vhale]

I don't think that someone who has 1000 dragons and someone who has 5 should have different access to breed types.

 

Likewise, I also don't think that someone who has played for 5 years vs someone who has just started the game should have different access to breed types.

 

My opinion is that everyone should have the same access to the cave and AP with the same breeds as everyone else.

 

I agree with that. Realistically though, I don't see that happening right now with what we have. Some people are slow, some fast. It's also though, why I did not suggest that the dragons be unbreedable.

 

Let's think about what segment of the population has a lot of dragons. People that do lineages, yes? Let's look at the trade threads for Even Gens, Stair Steps and breedings as such. There is so much gifting in the even-gen thread that people have asked for it to be split.

 

These are commons. If people want quick access to them poking an even genners would get it. If people would rather wait and achieve it on their own, they could.

 

It's not even just the even genners. The Gold Gifting Group zero'd out their list. And in TGT? Many of the people on it, already have the dragon they want and are going for multiples. I think if the rare gifters can zero out their list with rare dragons, it wouldn't be that hard for the impatient to get a vet biome dragon. But that is my impression based on what I've seen in the trading forum.

[shikaru]

I agree with that. Realistically though, I don't see that happening right now with what we have. Some people are slow, some fast. It's also though, why I did not suggest that the dragons be unbreedable.

 

Let's think about what segment of the population has a lot of dragons. People that do lineages, yes? Let's look at the trade threads for Even Gens, Stair Steps and breedings as such. There is so much gifting in the even-gen thread that people have asked for it to be split.

 

These are commons. If people want quick access to them poking an even genners would get it. If people would rather wait and achieve it on their own, they could.

 

It's not even just the even genners. The Gold Gifting Group zero'd out their list. And in TGT? Many of the people on it, already have the dragon they want and are going for multiples. I think if the rare gifters can zero out their list with rare dragons, it wouldn't be that hard for the impatient to get a vet biome dragon. But that is my impression based on what I've seen in the trading forum.

What about people who don't use the forums?