Remote Biomes

[dark_kitsune]

I think implementing this would be a really nice idea as long as the number of dragons/time spent wasn't astronomical.

 

As for people thinking this is elitist - I really don't get it. If you consider Dragon Cave to be a game, then like most other games...when you first start out you're not going to have as much loot, goodies, gold, whatever than someone who's been playing for a while. Having something like extra biomes would add (I think) an element of excitement - a goal or achievement to unlock. I don't play WoW or games of that nature but I'm guessing that someone who's played it for 6 years is going to have access to a lot more goodies than someone who just started yesterday. Does that make the new player upset? Do they get angry because they don't have some special item that the old player has? No...they decide to put some effort into the game to obtain that item or level or whatever it may be.

 

Something does need to happen with this game...whatever it may be, so the game will gain more players and popularity. If it remains stagnant for too long, DC will hit a brick wall.

 

As for affecting play styles...I think if the number of dragons or time required wasn't too high, I don't see how that could possibly affect anyone who actually plays this game.

[Herk]

And one LAST, last, last post by me (should have been in bed hours ago)

 

I think we have different ideas of accesible to everyone.

 

I don't want dragons only accessible to certain people, but I don't see the Veteran's biomes that way: they are accessible to everyone, just not RIGHT NOW.

 

(Oh and player B with 600 dragons WOULD have an advantage over player A with 4 in getting trios, even if you say A has NO reds to incubate - which would be quite a stretch - he still would have MORE eggslots and more things worth breeding to access trios through trading, giving him better chances. It's not that big an advantage, but you are arguing quality not quantity).

 

Besides I still stand by my point that the AP would be quite full of these potential new breeds if they weren't rare, so veterans would only have the CB advantage and only for some time.

 

And really which newbie cares about lineages - I know I didn't until long after I joined the forum, which was long after I started playing.

 

and with that Good Night - see you all after Easter

Edited March 21, 2013 by herk

[Fiona]

Perhaps they would be like a remote region of existing biomes. An example would be perhaps old growth forests, desert salt flats, alpine peaks, river headwaters, tropical rainforest, (or switch the existing jungle for savannah and make the specific one jungles...) lava pools or pipes. Or some such. Then, the ... dragons that would drop in each trophy specific area would relate to that theme.

Quoting myself here. lol

 

I came back to this idea. Essentially, an extension of the existing biomes, but more remote. The idea that occurred to me was, if these are more remote areas of the existing biomes, it would make a certain degree of sense that you'd need to have hunted the existing biomes at least some to know about going deeper, right? That's really something that's sort of at the heart of this suggestion, as far as I could see.

 

So, what if, instead of having to have a set number of dragons overall, you'd need a certain number from a particular biome in order to go deeper to the extended biome? Say for example, the jungle. According to the wiki there are 29 different breeds that drop there. Let's say the magic number is 10. You'd need to have at least 10 dragons from the jungle (any combination of 10) in order to go deeper in the jungle.

 

It does have the benefit of adding something new for players who've been here awhile, but new players would only be excluded for as long as it took to get familiar with the game. It might take them a bit to get access to all the different extended biomes, but they could get to the first of them very quickly if they chose.

 

Does that solve your concerns, Shikaru? Does that give the "something more" you were looking for, Vhale?

[shikaru]

Quoting myself here. lol

 

I came back to this idea. Essentially, an extension of the existing biomes, but more remote. The idea that occurred to me was, if these are more remote areas of the existing biomes, it would make a certain degree of sense that you'd need to have hunted the existing biomes at least some to know about going deeper, right? That's really something that's sort of at the heart of this suggestion, as far as I could see.

 

So, what if, instead of having to have a set number of dragons overall, you'd need a certain number from a particular biome in order to go deeper to the extended biome? Say for example, the jungle. According to the wiki there are 29 different breeds that drop there. Let's say the magic number is 10. You'd need to have at least 10 dragons from the jungle (any combination of 10) in order to go deeper in the jungle.

 

It does have the benefit of adding something new for players who've been here awhile, but new players would only be excluded for as long as it took to get familiar with the game. It might take them a bit to get access to all the different extended biomes, but they could get to the first of them very quickly if they chose.

 

Does that solve your concerns, Shikaru? Does that give the "something more" you were looking for, Vhale?

A number around 10 or so isn't bad, it's when you get higher than that that I have a real problem.

 

Four egg slots with four weeks in a month is about 16 dragons a month on average with no incubates or low time eggs. With the extended biome idea, I don't think that it should take someone more than a month to get there.

 

As for people thinking this is elitist - I really don't get it. If you consider Dragon Cave to be a game, then like most other games...when you first start out you're not going to have as much loot, goodies, gold, whatever than someone who's been playing for a while. Having something like extra biomes would add (I think) an element of excitement - a goal or achievement to unlock. I don't play WoW or games of that nature but I'm guessing that someone who's played it for 6 years is going to have access to a lot more goodies than someone who just started yesterday. Does that make the new player upset? Do they get angry because they don't have some special item that the old player has? No...they decide to put some effort into the game to obtain that item or level or whatever it may be.

 

Actually, that kind of stuff turns me off from games. Part of the reason I don't generally like MMOs.

Edited March 21, 2013 by shikaru

[demonicvampiregirl]

Quoting myself here. lol

 

I came back to this idea. Essentially, an extension of the existing biomes, but more remote. The idea that occurred to me was, if these are more remote areas of the existing biomes, it would make a certain degree of sense that you'd need to have hunted the existing biomes at least some to know about going deeper, right? That's really something that's sort of at the heart of this suggestion, as far as I could see.

 

So, what if, instead of having to have a set number of dragons overall, you'd need a certain number from a particular biome in order to go deeper to the extended biome? Say for example, the jungle. According to the wiki there are 29 different breeds that drop there. Let's say the magic number is 10. You'd need to have at least 10 dragons from the jungle (any combination of 10) in order to go deeper in the jungle.

 

It does have the benefit of adding something new for players who've been here awhile, but new players would only be excluded for as long as it took to get familiar with the game. It might take them a bit to get access to all the different extended biomes, but they could get to the first of them very quickly if they chose.

 

Does that solve your concerns, Shikaru? Does that give the "something more" you were looking for, Vhale?

That actually does kinda solve the problem. Doesn't really affect peoples play style and let's newer people have access fairly quickly too.

[Vhale]

Quoting myself here. lol

 

I came back to this idea. Essentially, an extension of the existing biomes, but more remote. The idea that occurred to me was, if these are more remote areas of the existing biomes, it would make a certain degree of sense that you'd need to have hunted the existing biomes at least some to know about going deeper, right? That's really something that's sort of at the heart of this suggestion, as far as I could see.

 

So, what if, instead of having to have a set number of dragons overall, you'd need a certain number from a particular biome in order to go deeper to the extended biome? Say for example, the jungle. According to the wiki there are 29 different breeds that drop there. Let's say the magic number is 10. You'd need to have at least 10 dragons from the jungle (any combination of 10) in order to go deeper in the jungle.

 

It does have the benefit of adding something new for players who've been here awhile, but new players would only be excluded for as long as it took to get familiar with the game. It might take them a bit to get access to all the different extended biomes, but they could get to the first of them very quickly if they chose.

 

Does that solve your concerns, Shikaru? Does that give the "something more" you were looking for, Vhale?

I thought that was a nice take on it when I saw it before but I got distracted away from it. It's clever and still gives people and achievement goal while playing into the whole Dragon Cave world thing. I would not mind adding it to the first post at all. It would help solve TJ's dilema on where/what to put new biomes too I'd think.

[Fiona]

If you want to add any of that to the front post, feel free. I'm glad the idea is helping resolve people's issues.

[dark_kitsune]

Quoting myself here. lol

 

I came back to this idea. Essentially, an extension of the existing biomes, but more remote. The idea that occurred to me was, if these are more remote areas of the existing biomes, it would make a certain degree of sense that you'd need to have hunted the existing biomes at least some to know about going deeper, right? That's really something that's sort of at the heart of this suggestion, as far as I could see.

 

So, what if, instead of having to have a set number of dragons overall, you'd need a certain number from a particular biome in order to go deeper to the extended biome? Say for example, the jungle. According to the wiki there are 29 different breeds that drop there. Let's say the magic number is 10. You'd need to have at least 10 dragons from the jungle (any combination of 10) in order to go deeper in the jungle.

 

It does have the benefit of adding something new for players who've been here awhile, but new players would only be excluded for as long as it took to get familiar with the game. It might take them a bit to get access to all the different extended biomes, but they could get to the first of them very quickly if they chose.

 

Does that solve your concerns, Shikaru? Does that give the "something more" you were looking for, Vhale?

I think this is a fantastic idea!

[Spelunker]

Agreed- Fi's idea is great!

[Princess_Pinkie]

Agreed- Fi's idea is great!

also agreed!

 

i would think it'd be a neat way to get more breeds in as well considering there are soooo many dragons that have yet to be implemented that sit for years.

[Syaoransbear]

As a veteran, I do not like this idea at all. I don't think anyone should have special privileges over others for any reason.

[Spelunker]

Ok, Sy. Thanks for your opinion! However, don't people with different/better hardware have advantages over those with slow machines? :/

[sashocirrione]

I thought that was a nice take on it when I saw it before but I got distracted away from it. It's clever and still gives people and achievement goal while playing into the whole Dragon Cave world thing. I would not mind adding it to the first post at all. It would help solve TJ's dilema on where/what to put new biomes too I'd think.

Great idea!

 

For example...

 

Mountaintops (for Alpine)

 

Ocean (for Coast)

 

Parched Wastelands (for Desert)

 

Deep Forest (for Forest)

 

Deep Jungle (for Jungle)

 

Volcanic Craters (for Volcano)

 

 

[Slaskia]

Quoting myself here. lol

 

I came back to this idea. Essentially, an extension of the existing biomes, but more remote. The idea that occurred to me was, if these are more remote areas of the existing biomes, it would make a certain degree of sense that you'd need to have hunted the existing biomes at least some to know about going deeper, right? That's really something that's sort of at the heart of this suggestion, as far as I could see.

 

So, what if, instead of having to have a set number of dragons overall, you'd need a certain number from a particular biome in order to go deeper to the extended biome? Say for example, the jungle. According to the wiki there are 29 different breeds that drop there. Let's say the magic number is 10. You'd need to have at least 10 dragons from the jungle (any combination of 10) in order to go deeper in the jungle.

 

It does have the benefit of adding something new for players who've been here awhile, but new players would only be excluded for as long as it took to get familiar with the game. It might take them a bit to get access to all the different extended biomes, but they could get to the first of them very quickly if they chose.

 

Does that solve your concerns, Shikaru? Does that give the "something more" you were looking for, Vhale?

I like this idea myself. The only 'issue' with it is in regards with dragons that are found in multiple biomes (like pinks). Granted, TJ did say something about wanting to put in some kind of indicator on what biome each dragon was caught in, so that may solve that little problem.

[Kirbyburn]

Well then, it's no longer a "veteran" biome. Now it's just a suggestion to add a new biome to each place.

[tenyasyugan]

Well then, it's no longer a "veteran" biome. Now it's just a suggestion to add a new biome to each place.

Actually, I think you're missing the point that it would be available only to those who've already gone through the "newbie" process of collecting the basic dragons from the first parts of the biomes. It doesn't scream elitism nor does it seem like just adding biomes. It's an unlockable feature.

 

Also, I don't see why everyone is getting into such a fuss over it being an unlockable feature. It's not as though you need to buy it nor have some specific ultra-rare dragon to get into the areas and you certainly don't need to have special connections. It's even been suggested several times that there be several exchangeable criteria for unlocking the biomes, and they aren't full of rares, simply new breeds that signify the next tier.

 

I feel that such a feature should compile, meaning one doesn't lose past biomes, and I really think people should consider the multiple criteria thing more, as it allows for players with different play styles to have an opportunity. Also, once you unlock a biome, that biome shouldn't go away due to inactivity [that would suck].

 

I've been here for years and see this as actually being just as, if not more fair, than some of the existing elements of Dragcave. As previously mentioned, members with more dragons will always have an initial edge, but the point is we can all work to that point. I've also come to find that there are many people who are very willing to gift and trade, so long as you can find them [but, that's another matter].

[Completely Different]

I really like Fi's idea. It makes perfect sense from a RP mechanic, I don't think the "difficulty" level is too high, and it still has enough flexibility not to restrict play to much.

 

For the problem of some species being available in multiple biomes, there are two options;

a: you need to get X number of dragons found only in that one biome

B: we implement that idea of recording where the egg was found

 

I personally prefer b, because I don't think we have that many single-biome exclusive species, and I feel like a would restrict the flexibility that makes this idea so nice.

 

My guess is upon completing a goal, when you head to a biome, you now get to see new message and link. For example, if you're in the desert, the message could say something like;

 

"Since the desert is a dangerous place, many people stay close to civilisation. However, you are experienced enough to journey farther into the wasteland if you so chose."

 

Clicking on the message would take you to the more "experienced" biome.

 

Edited to change the dreaded smilie appearing.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Completely Different

[Vhale]

I had first considered this could be a BSA that a dragon from that biome could have, similar to summon. That would allow you to /follow that dragon to a new part of the biome. And once there, you could catch eggies.

 

But, I did not post it as I was concerned the poor people who haven't summoned yet in 3 years would lynch me =x Definitely wouldn't do it with that kind of fail rate.

 

I like the little flavor text you added in there.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Vhale

[Syphoneira]

Like many others, I like Fiona BlueFire's suggestion of an easily unlockable route deeper into the biomes.

 

Everyone has access to the place and dragons needed to advance further in - it's a challenge but not exclusory, gives us new places, and I think it sounds pretty cool, as long as not more than 10 dragons from each biome were required.

 

Fiona BlueFire, you're a genius!

[Pokemonfan13]

I really don't care how it's done as long as there's exclusive biomes with new dragons that let dragons be released more often for more experienced players.

[Vhale]

Personally I think 10 dragons is a bit small, depending on the number from each biome. People were concerned about multi-scrolling. Well a veteran such as myself could go grab low time eggs out of the ap, incuhatch them. And basically get access to the new biome on a new scroll in about 2 hours. One of the reasons I wasn't concerned about multi scrolling with the previous iteration is that not so many people would put a month or two into building a fake scroll. but 2 hours to get a vet biome as things stand right now, is a shade too easy to qualify as a reward.

[Pokemonfan13]

That's a good point. Think about it. A newbie has tons of new dragons to collect as it is. Are they really going to be put off by having some that they won't have access to until they've collected a bunch?

 

Set the number high enough that it will take at least a few months of normal collecting to get in, but low enough that it doesn't take more than one or two of each common breed to get in. [on average, no specific breed requirements, I was talking numbers]

Edited March 22, 2013 by Pokemonfan13

[Fiona]

At 10 dragons per biome it would take most players about 45 days to have access to all 6 remote biomes if they aren't cheating. I don't think you can base decisions on what happens if people cheat. Further, players that have bronze or higher trophies would have access already normally, so the temptation to cheat should be less.

 

I did think of suggesting 15 dragons for each biome, but one of the concerns was putting them out of reach for too long. That would normally take about 60 days.

 

Numbers: 3 days to hatch a dragon x 4 eggs at beginner level. So it's calculated on 4 dragons every 3 days. At 10 dragons per access it would take 15 days to access 2 biomes, assuming the new player knows about the remote biomes. Most wouldn't, and would collect eggs from random biomes instead of concentrating on one at a time, but that would work out ok in the end. They'd still get access to all of them at some point, and by then they'd know better what they're doing.

[Vhale]

If the AP ones didn't count I wouldn't mind it too much. I don't think people should be able to incuhatch their way into it though via the ap. That and depending on how dragons in specific biomes count. If fogs and pebbles etc didn't count, it would actually be a bit more of a challenge.

 

I was thinking a good average would be similar to Vampires. A Vampire can only bite once every 30 days. And that's a 1/3 shot at getting a single dragon. Or you get a nice dead egg that makes you a pariah in quite a few gift/trade threads. If you got each Vamp trick, it would take 90 days for a full cycle. 45 days - 3 months isn't too bad. We've last that longer than that between new releases and for seasonals. (hopefully changing for new releases soon!)

[Syphoneira]

If I may ask a question of Fiona Bluefire: in your vision, would simply having a selection of 10 or more of the sprites Dropped in each biome enable people to go deeper into the new biome, or would they have to catch them in the biome?

 

It would be such a pity to discourage AP cleaning...

 

Also, it should be borne in mind that the collection of 10 dragons from each biome interferes with whatever they're doing, receiving/giving gifts, engaging in trades, going after dragons they particularly want.

 

Unless people devote themselves entirely to raising the dragons required to access each biome - without grabbing even dragons from the biomes they've achieved access to, which, frankly, seems unlikely - it would take MUCH longer than that proposed for most people to gain access to most, never mind all, of the proposed extended biomes.

 

They also couldn't stock up on Reds and Pinks to Influence and Incubate the dragons they collected...

 

 

Edit: didn't see Vhale's comment before posting - good point about the incuhatching...

 

But on the other hand, does that really matter?

 

If nobody can get into the new biomes for 3 months, will we hear the dragons knocking the trees over in the forest we can't get at?

 

And who will one-hand-clap in time to keep the unseen beat?

 

 

Re- edit: Hi, Vhale, TJ said that we're getting regular Releases of two breeds on the first week-end of every month from here on in.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Syphoneira