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Using language like forcing boot camp on others is a bit melodramatic isn't it?

 

I don't see it as more stressful than having to login on Valetines, Christmas or Halloween for special eggs. Actually, a lot less as there would be quit a bit more time out of the year to get them. No one has asked for rares in this. Not in the OP, or elsewhere. I really think people are getting wayyy too tied up in their feelings about prize dragons to give this a fair shot. This is not about rares. However, with a twist that, like egg slots, catching them does require a little effort. At the very least, going to a gifting thread. As people have also said, people don't have to pick up things you don't like. One person mentioned they had 1000+ papers.

 

And yes, there would be trade value to them. And some would probably be high. That's no different than any new release. Some people have no sense and no patience. But, I would like to see some mid level trade value items. So this idea did come from that desire.

 

Let me describe a situation in WoW (World of Warcraft). Every Christmas, there is a little Santa Claus with the exact same quest. To get the Santa milk and cookies. Now, the milk is a 5 copper vendor item that is sold in unlimited supply right across the street from the Santa, but down maybe 2 house. Directly across the street, is the Auction House, where players can list any item for sale. What happens? People buy the milk off the vendor (unlimited mind you) and relist it for 5g on the Auction House. My nephew made about 300 gold this way last year, as a newbie. People walk twice as far and pay 1000 times as much because they don't bother looking first. Would people follow this type of behavior in Dragon Cave? Not sure, but I suspect so.

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Let's face it:

People who don't really,play the game hurt it. You can say all you want about scroll goals and exclusivity, but thats a fact. And someonewho only picks up a dragon every now and then, only a certain breed, messes with ratios for everyone, be they fixed or not.

 

Most of you are criticising that fact, instead of the suggestion, and are worried that your destructive playstyle might have to change to reach your goals once again.

 

Lastly I have to wonder, why peopke who hate/disapprove of tinsels and shimmers still want them so much. If its only about the sprite, you'll have all the tinsels you need by now. As for shimmers, wait half a year and you're set.

 

The hardest part about sprite collecting has always been that you need so many freezes. Everything else is easily obtainable - or would be, if you'd be more active in the game.

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Let's face it:

People who don't really,play the game hurt it. You can say all you want about scroll goals and exclusivity, but thats a fact. And someonewho only picks up a dragon every now and then, only a certain breed, messes with ratios for everyone, be they fixed or not.

 

Most of you are criticising that fact, instead of the suggestion, and are worried that your destructive playstyle might have to change to reach your goals once again.

I gotta say, that's pretty rude saying that people with certain playstyles aren't actually playing.

 

Please point to me where, in the rules, it defines what actually playing is and that if you don't play a specific way then you're not actually playing/playing the wrong way.

 

I always thought the awesome thing about DC was that you could play how you liked--not that if you didn't play a certain way you were a Bad Person who needed to stop their terribly way of playing to conform to the "right" way to play. :|

 

I guess since I don't lock myself constantly I must be playing wrong and should quit the game since I don't really feel like having a ton of dragons I hate on my scroll.

Edited by KageSora

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I did not imply (or at least wanted to) that people are "bad" because of their playstyles.

 

however, it is true that if you only get online to pick up very specific breeds, you hurt ratios for everyone else. only taking 4-8 of the newest breed?

 

Makes other people have to pick up a lot of commons to get them.

Since that IS already happening and not really frowned upon, I think this kind of argument just is not a good counter to any new suggestion, yet still it is brought up as the most important argument against many new ideas.

 

Peoples playstyles hurt ratios and trading a lot more than such changes ever could. Tinsels and Shimmers only have such immense impact because of people obsessing about their scroll goals. I've never had trouble getting tinsels or even shimmers. But I guess that's because i don't need a second gen or clean lineage to reach a goal.

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The way you worded it came off as rude, IMO, even if you didn't mean it--text just carries tone so badly.

 

Not everybody with limited playstyles collects only the newest breed. Maybe they have an army--it's just not of a blocker/super common. Maybe they like to collect rares, and that's all they hunt. There's plenty of ways to have a playstyle that doesn't involve raising hundreds of the most common of dragons besides just the limited number playstyle.

 

Rather than something like this, I'd prefer to see the ratios tweaked. They worked well back when the cave was small and people were happy to grab any dragon they could before we had things like readily viewable lineages and such.

 

But as the game has grown, they've stopped working quite so well. I personally figure any change to try and entice people to grab blockers is just a band-aid solution. It might help a little, but there will invariably be new blockers and once people have access to the extra stuff they won't need to bother collecting the blockers. And then as more people get access to the areas/decide they'd rather not ruin their scrolls to get them, there will be less people ready to be enticed into grabbing the blockers, and we'll just end up back in a similar situation needing a new way to get people to grab blockers. DC does have more players that come to the game, yes. But the question is does it gain enough new players who will stick around long enough and be interested enough in such extra things to bother raising a ton of dragons they may not care for? If so, that's good, but I still don't think it's a proper solution that will last. If not, we'll end up back here sooner rather than later.

 

The ratios need to be tweaked or handled differently to help the problem in a much longer-term way, IMO.

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Sorry, Vhale, I evidently didn't phrase that clearly - what I was trying to say was that what's suggested here is an entirely different game than that of DC, something that feels to me like boot camp - very regimented, everyone separated by rank into different areas, rules and regs all over the universe.

 

That's not a place that I would go to relax and have fun - and I'd hate to lose DC to it.

 

Why not try for a different game site to be set up according to such rules for those who would like it better than the way DC is now?

 

 

KageSora keeps saying it for me - '... I always thought the awesome thing about DC was that you could play how you liked--not that if you didn't play a certain way you were a Bad Person who needed to stop their terribly way of playing to conform to the "right" way to play. :| ...'

 

 

'... Rather than something like this, I'd prefer to see the ratios tweaked. They worked well back when the cave was small and people were happy to grab any dragon they could before we had things like readily viewable lineages and such.

 

But as the game has grown, they've stopped working quite so well. I personally figure any change to try and entice people to grab blockers is just a band-aid solution. It might help a little, but there will invariably be new blockers and once people have access to the extra stuff they won't need to bother collecting the blockers. And then as more people get access to the areas/decide they'd rather not ruin their scrolls to get them, there will be less people ready to be enticed into grabbing the blockers, and we'll just end up back in a similar situation needing a new way to get people to grab blockers. DC does have more players that come to the game, yes. But the question is does it gain enough new players who will stick around long enough and be interested enough in such extra things to bother raising a ton of dragons they may not care for? If so, that's good, but I still don't think it's a proper solution that will last. If not, we'll end up back here sooner rather than later.

 

The ratios need to be tweaked or handled differently to help the problem in a much longer-term way, IMO. ...'

 

 

 

among many other KageSora statements I happen to strongly agree with.

 

Edit: Typo Queen strikes again!

Edited by Syphoneira

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I was talking mainly about Prize dragons here, which I have been in against the existence of since the beginning. The general populous will never have access to CB versions of those dragons, unless the 'In-Cave' variant proposed in one of the other threads goes through.
That's exactly why I'm against the way tinsels and now shimmers are handled. It's just plain annoying to know that you'll never be able to get a CB, and would have to trade stuff you never manage to catch in the first place to even get a 2nd gen. sad.gif

 

A Veteran biome, however, is a very different thing. Because everybody has the ability to get there... eventually. If they choose not to, it's their problem. (You aren't demanding that everyone with at least one red dragon gets endless incubates, do you? If you want to be able to incubate 49 eggs every other week, you need 49 reds - whether that agrees with your scroll goals or not.)

 

Reading through this thread, I see people asking for all these rules and restrictions and for MAKING people collect types of dragon whether they like them or not
The main suggestion is still about making a veteran biome accessible after you collect a certain number of dragons - no matter which ones. So, collect those you like and only those, and you'll be fine.

 

Personally, I'm not going to let anyone FORCE me into picking up dragons I don't want, whether a carrot or a stick is built into the game to demand it - what kind of a collection *game* does that?
Project Nyoka, which does have something akin to veteran biomes, only they're called planets or worlds there. Maybe others, too, I don't know. /off-topic Anyhow, the point remains - you're free to pick up only those breeds you like, nobody forces you to amass balloons or whatever your least favorite breed is.

 

Well, there's nothing stopping you from amassing the dragons you need for this. Everyone can do it.
Yes, indeed--except, again, breaking playstyle for some players. Mostly, it just seems to me that it'd be making a certain playstyle the "right" way to play the game.
Well, there is one social (or maybe right?) playstyle where dragons are collected at least close to their rarity level - meaning lots of commons, a moderate number of uncommons and few rares - and a less social (or maybe wrong?) playstyle where someone only collects X amount of dragons from each breed - but more of uncommons and rares.

 

You did - but others insisted on using either time since registration or number of dragons, whichever came first.
I do think it should be "whichever comes first", as long as it has that activity restriction--it should be a reward for sticking with the game, after all. And there are different ways to stick with the game.
As long as there is an activity restriction, I can agree with you.

 

And yeah. I would want alt accounts. I wouldn't actually do that, but if even I would be tempted (and I cannot stand multiscrolling), then I can only imagine that plenty of players wouldn't really have the aversion I do and would do it--and I can even see how they'd feel justified. They put in all this time and effort--why shouldn't they be able to access the dragons they want?
You're speaking my mind here. What reward would it be if something else was taken from you?

 

Makes other people have to pick up a lot of commons to get them.

Since that IS already happening and not really frowned upon, I think this kind of argument just is not a good counter to any new suggestion, yet still it is brought up as the most important argument against many new ideas.

 

Peoples playstyles hurt ratios and trading a lot more than such changes ever could. Tinsels and Shimmers only have such immense impact because of people obsessing about their scroll goals. I've never had trouble getting tinsels or even shimmers. But I guess that's because i don't need a second gen or clean lineage to reach a goal.

Totally this. Edited by olympe

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Reading through this thread, I see people asking for all these rules and restrictions and for MAKING people collect types of dragon whether they like them or not - why not just ask TJ to open a 'Boot Camp for Dragon Tenders' as a separate thing, lol?

 

People play DC because it's fun, because they collect the dragons they want, even if they CHOOSE to help clear the AP taking dragons they otherwise wouldn't.

 

Families, older people, kids, all ages play here, to relax - not to be separated into groups or forced in their off-time gaming to do things they don't want to do.

 

Personally, I'm not going to let anyone FORCE me into picking up dragons I don't want, whether a carrot or a stick is built into the game to demand it - what kind of a collection *game* does that?

 

How is that fun?

This - and everything Kage-Sora said.

 

Am I really the only person who is enjoying playing RIGHT NOW ????

 

Why not try for a different game site to be set up according to such rules for those who would like it better than the way DC is now?

 

This too.

 

And I can't see why ANYONE should be able to do this:

If I were to try and determine which dragons were rare and which were common from a given scroll, I ought to be able to see that.

 

That would REALLY impact play style in ways to do nothing to do with blockers. Someone here has over 1000 waters and not a lot else, for instance.

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Fizz, no you arent alone. I like to play DC as is. I am not able to catch rares from cave and i enjoy grabbing low time eggs (mainly stones) from the AP.

 

I have over 2500 drgaons and dont need a seperate biome - i wont be able to grab nice stuff from there anyways!

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Fizz, no you arent alone. I like to play DC as is. I am not able to catch rares from cave and i enjoy grabbing low time eggs (mainly stones) from the AP.

 

I have over 2500 drgaons and dont need a seperate biome - i wont be able to grab nice stuff from there anyways!

Pretty much this smile.gif except for the grabbing stones and the 2500 dragons - I have over 5100. I'm happy with DC the way it is.

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Making suggestions doesn't mean I don't enjoy DC as it is. I quite enjoy it. But why would that prohibit me from responding to a concern that others have? I also enjoy the community here. And I know some of them are frustrated by inability to trade, slow releases and other issues. Rather than ignore them, I don't mind entertaining a few ideas to possibly help. Nothing may come of it, but I feel better for having made the effort.

 

A community is a relationship with other people after all. And sometimes compromise is necessary (within reason) as we don't all have the same tastes. But, I am biased having played mmos for a very long time, always in casual raiding guilds. So, I'm used to have to spend a bit of time thinking about how to get people with very different play and skill styles working together well. It's a habit, not meant to be a personal attack on anyone here tongue.gif

 

I wouldn't mind ratios tweaked either but that's a whole different thread. I'm not entirely convinced that it would work. We've basically had a metal ratio tweak and what's happened is those that can catch, simply catch more and offer inflated prices for things that traded for far less last year. It's only worked for uncommons, and that by badly decreasing their value to the point that people can't trade them for higher things now. That may certainly change as time moves on, right now it doesn't seem to be having the effect that people desired though.

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Making suggestions doesn't mean I don't enjoy DC as it is. I quite enjoy it. But why would that prohibit me from responding to a concern that others have? I also enjoy the community here. And I know some of them are frustrated by inability to trade, slow releases and other issues. Rather than ignore them, I don't mind entertaining a few ideas to possibly help. Nothing may come of it, but I feel better for having made the effort.

 

A community is a relationship with other people after all. And sometimes compromise is necessary (within reason) as we don't all have the same tastes. But, I am biased having played mmos for a very long time, always in casual raiding guilds. So, I'm used to have to spend a bit of time thinking about how to get people with very different play and skill styles working together well. It's a habit, not meant to be a personal attack on anyone here tongue.gif

Sure - but reading this thread, and a couple of others, you'd think the game was no fun for anyone any more, is all.

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I get what you're saying. There's been a lot of threads lately and some have been very heated. But if it gives TJ some ideas for this site or Leetles, it's all for the good. smile.gif He doesn't seem to make changes without a lot of thought. So all of this is just user feedback for him to draw upon.

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I like to play DC as is. I am not able to catch rares from cave and i enjoy grabbing low time eggs (mainly stones) from the AP.

 

I have over 2500 drgaons and dont need a seperate biome - i wont be able to grab nice stuff from there anyways!

Pretty much this. ^^

 

I don't have that many dragons compared to some (getting closer to the 1000 mark now, though ;o), but I'm happy with things the way they are. And a few thousand is a goal that, especially to newbies, may seem impossible. I can catch all the commons I ever need from the AP and the biomes as they are now, so why would I need another biome?

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Just a thought, a lot of people seem to have an issue because they don't have a play style that involves collecting vast amounts of dragons. So perhap new trophies could be added corresponding to the amount of years a user has been on, and have these biomes connected to those trophies.

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Just a thought, a lot of people seem to have an issue because they don't have a play style that involves collecting vast amounts of dragons. So perhap new trophies could be added corresponding to the amount of years a user has been on, and have these biomes connected to those trophies.

This is something I'd get behind, as long as you could also get access depending on the number you grabbed--a whichever comes first situation.

 

And, as I've said, that there's an activity requirement--you need to be active for a month to gain/keep access to a biome, and if you just pop back up after 2 years you don't get it right away. If you're really back in the game, you'll earn access in the month of activity. If not, you won't be unhappy to be missing out because you weren't sticking around long enough to enjoy the new stuff anyway.

 

 

Personally, I don't think that any alteration to the ratios is going to be an instant solution--nor any solution. It takes time for things to even out, after all.

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Why don't we expand what it takes to get this VIP access.

Maybe it should be like "qualify for four out of the following"

 

50+ dragons

500+ dragons

1000+ dragons

1+ years as a member

2+ years as a member

100+ trades

300+ trades

30+ consecutive days of activity

60+ consecutive days of activity

10+ trophy/holiday collectibles

 

That should cater to everyone's playing style one way or another.

Edited by Kirbyburn

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The "consecutive time" seems a bit much. Maybe 180 days of activity withing a 200 day period? So they can miss 20 days and still have access. :3

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The "consecutive time" seems a bit much. Maybe 180 days of activity withing a 200 day period? So they can miss 20 days and still have access. :3

Changed.

 

I just was thinking of the user who just pops on and off to check if the dragon is alright.

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Personally, I'm not going to let anyone FORCE me into picking up dragons I don't want, whether a carrot or a stick is built into the game to demand it - what kind of a collection *game* does that?

 

How is that fun?

Here's the thing though: That's what DC already does. That's what the ratios are. The cave only gives you 18 eggs at once so that you are forced to take one and keep it for five hours before you can get another one. Normally, the AP blocks the cave to force you to take eggs from the AP. If you were the only one playing DC--if everyone had their own personal cave and there was no competition over eggs--you would, in fact, be forced to pick up those dragons.

 

Someone does eventually pick up the egg, though, and considering how long eggs stick around with nobody taking them, I think it's a safe bet to say that whoever it is didn't want it either. Reluctance on the part of users to pick up eggs is individually rewarded by having a nice clean scroll with no dragons you don't want, but collectively punished by a cave that's constantly blocked. Giving in and picking up the eggs is individually punished by an egg slot being locked for five hours, but collectively rewarded by making rares/desirables more available for everybody.

 

So, yes. The way the cave is currently set up, some playstyles are better than others, in terms of making the game work properly. I think the blame is on TJ for saying there's no right way to play, when in reality, the game shoehorns you into playing a certain way or causing massive problems for everyone.

 

The more I debate this with people, the more I start to wonder if Dragon Cave was originally meant as an exercise in game theory.

 

EDIT

If I were to try and determine which dragons were rare and which were common from a given scroll, I ought to be able to see that.

That would REALLY impact play style in ways to do nothing to do with blockers. Someone here has over 1000 waters and not a lot else, for instance.

I'm not describing a suggestion for change, here. I'm describing the way the ratios already work. If dragons of every breed were equally distributed across all the scrolls, everyone's ratio of rares to commons would equal what the site thinks it should be.

Edited by ~!~

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Am I really the only person who is enjoying playing RIGHT NOW ????

I tend to feel this exact way about a LOT of the suggestions around here lately that are basically suggesting to completely change the way the game is.

 

NO to "perks" like secret biomes for people with a kabillion dragons, or a certain number of a certain breed, OR people who have been playing for a certain amount of time. COMPLETELY unfair to ALL newbies. And the "consistent days of activity" is just ridiculous, I'm sorry but it is. I've been a full-devoted DC-er since 2008, and I'm usually on every single day, but if I miss ONE day I don't get access to this "special" biome? blink.gif

 

I do realize that the suggestion (at least as I understand it, I haven't read *every* post) is for simply "secret biomes" that would drop exactly the same as other biomes, so people wouldn't be getting an unfair shot at rares or anything. I still think the whole idea is rather unneeded.

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Here's the thing though: That's what DC already does. That's what the ratios are. The cave only gives you 18 eggs at once so that you are forced to take one and keep it for five hours before you can get another one. Normally, the AP blocks the cave to force you to take eggs from the AP. If you were the only one playing DC--if everyone had their own personal cave and there was no competition over eggs--you would, in fact, be forced to pick up those dragons.

And yet I would say no one is forced to play that way right now. If one doesn't pick up eggs in the AP which blocks the cave, the latter will be open during the drop so that everyone can hunt for CB eggs. If one doesn't collect lots of dragons and has no trophy (or let's say not a gold trophy), it doesn't limit the number of species of dragons they can get - they are stuck with less eggslots but are still able to get everything they need, while in case of extra biomes there would be a limit, so players who would love to get everything on their scroll would actually be forced to change their playstyle.

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COMPLETELY unfair to ALL newbies.

I'm not going to discuss much more than this, but, isn't that kind of the point?

It's not SUPPOSED to be for the newbies. That's the entire point behind having rewards for milestones. Newbies won't reach those milestones right off the bat, but it gives them goals to achieve. It gives them, and everyone else, something else to work towards that doesn't necessarily give them a secret, unobtainable-by-anyone-else perk like a special dragon.

 

Honestly, most games that are fair on every level get boring FAST. There has to be some incentive to continue, or else what's to stop someone from losing interest? If I join a site right off the bat and expect to have the same play standards as everyone else, it just sounds unrealistic. Senior members will and do have an advantage, but that doesn't mean I never will.

 

Newbies won't be newbies forever, so that doesn't really seem like a problem to me.

Edited by Shiny Hazard Sign

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And yet I would say no one is forced to play that way right now. If one doesn't pick up eggs in the AP which blocks the cave, the latter will be open during the drop so that everyone can hunt for CB eggs. If one doesn't collect lots of dragons and has no trophy (or let's say not a gold trophy), it doesn't limit the number of species of dragons they can get - they are stuck with less eggslots but are still able to get everything they need, while in case of extra biomes there would be a limit, so players who would love to get everything on their scroll would actually be forced to change their playstyle.

The only reason person A is able to get everything he needs is because when there's three Stone eggs in the Desert, someone else comes and takes one of those stone eggs, allowing him to snatch the Silver behind it.

 

The game may not force you to raise dragons you don't want, because you don't cave as easily as other people, but it forces us, the userbase at large, to raise dragons we don't want.

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The only reason person A is able to get everything he needs is because when there's three Stone eggs in the Desert, someone else comes and takes one of those stone eggs, allowing him to snatch the Silver behind it.

 

The game may not force you to raise dragons you don't want, because you don't cave as easily as other people, but it forces us, the userbase at large, to raise dragons we don't want.

I doubt, however, that there are lots of people who grab eggs in the cave just because they think they HAVE to do it, unless they are taking part in a contest of some sort. I'd rather say it's people who want that CB Stone who grab it.

 

I've never (never in my life) caught an egg because of having to do it to free up the cave. oô People who need those eggs cach them, it's not necessarily because they are forced to. There is certainly some demand for commons, among people who have recently joined, are still building their scroll or collect dragons of a certain type.

Edited by ZzelaBusya

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