Remote Biomes

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't understand how player youth relates to the concept of unlockable biomes/biomes taking a long time to unlock.

No - neither do I. I think the idea is that poor little kids would be CONFUSED. Which is NOT my experience of their playing on line games - if anything they are better at it than adults.

[Guillotine]

It relates to the argument that a lot of players would be overwhelmed by a very large release if they were just dumped in the current biomes (and if you doubt that, you can just look at the current release's thread (and again: that's a staggered release. Kind of a huge deal)). That's why it was brought up.

 

e: And that's relevant because we have approximately Way Too Many dragons in the current backlog. This is mostly being proposed to clear it out faster.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Guillotine

[Fuzzbucket]

It relates to the argument that a lot of players would be overwhelmed by a very large release if they were just dumped in the current biomes (and if you doubt that, you can just look at the current release's thread (and again: that's a staggered release. Kind of a huge deal)). That's why it was brought up.

What does that have to do with a player's age though ?

[3alexbalex]

~ Spam Removed ~ Edited May 11, 2013 by yosofine

[Guillotine]

What does that have to do with a player's age though ?

It's more likely to be an issue with very young (or very old, although I've seen some really computer-savvy old people) players than it is with older ones (although older players are certainly not exempt from that).

[shikaru]

I don't think new players are going to be more overwhelmed than older players. Many people who are reacting about the 7 dragons release are players who have been here quite awhile.

Edited May 10, 2013 by shikaru

[_Sin_]

I don't understand how player youth relates to the concept of unlockable biomes/biomes taking a long time to unlock.

Actually, I'm somehow guilty here. Since someone indicated as the motivation to keep new players out of the biomes was to not confuse them, I smart-alecked that the new players aren't exactly children (that need to be protected against "confusion") and that they are supposed to be 13yo.

At that point, people started talking about all those children that are actually playing. Sigh... How to derail...

[Fuzzbucket]

Actually, I'm somehow guilty here. Since someone indicated as the motivation to keep new players out of the biomes was to not confuse them, I smart-alecked that the new players aren't exactly children (that need to be protected against "confusion") and that they are supposed to be 13yo.

At that point, people started talking about all those children that are actually playing. Sigh... How to derail...

Great - so can we drop it now ? THEY will be fine.

 

I am 68 and freaking about 7 in 7 days, myself

[_Sin_]

I don't think new players are going to be more overwhelmed than older players. Many people who are reacting about the 7 dragons release are players who have been here quite awhile.

Exactly. What I do not get is why those same players seem to be in favor of more biomes and more breeds. Oh well...

Edit: the biomes are still crawling

[Guillotine]

Exactly. What I do not get is why those same players seem to be in favor of more biomes and more breeds. Oh well...

Edit: the biomes are still crawling

Because there is a massive backlog in the completed list. The thread subtitle is only a slight exaggeration, if it's exaggerated at all.

[_Sin_]

Because there is a massive backlog in the completed list. The thread subtitle is only a slight exaggeration, if it's exaggerated at all.

Repeating myself: that is assuming that the backlog (or the majority of it) is worth releasing.

[Completely Different]

Repeating myself: that is assuming that the backlog (or the majority of it) is worth releasing.

I think the majority of it is. Now, I'm not TJ, and he of course has the final say, but a lot of that art is very high quality and since we have rather strict rules about concepts, I don't think many will be rejected for not fitting the "feel" of the cave. I'd say about 80% of the stuff on that list is definitely worth releasing.

 

So, 80% of about 500 dragons. That's 400 dragons. With the new release schedule, we're getting about 2 dragons per month, ignoring months with holiday releases, which is an average of 14 dragons per year. 400 divided by 14 is over 28 years worth of dragons- and don't forget, more concepts are being made all the time.

 

So, the Remote Biomes idea is implemented for a number of reasons.

1) To reduce the backlog, so a lot of this high quality work can be seen in-cave.

2) To help with the fact that sooner or later, there will be too many breeds per biome for them to flow effectively. This would leave us with very slow moving caves.

3) To stagger which dragons are available to who (or, if we go with a seasonal biome idea, when) so that people don't get overwhelmed with a huge number of dragons.

4) So that older players who already have completed scrolls have new goals and challenges to work towards.

 

 

In my opinion, those are four really great reasons why Remote Biomes should be implemented. Five, if you add a world-building aspect. And I'm positive that we can find a method, or methods, that allows a real freedom of play-style while not being unfair on either the "newbies" or "veterans".

 

edited to add some numbers to the math bit.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Completely Different

[Fuzzbucket]

Exactly. What I do not get is why those same players seem to be in favor of more biomes and more breeds. Oh well...

Edit: the biomes are still crawling

Actually - while that isn't the reason, I'm NOT in favour of more biomes and have said so since way back in this thread. but in case it happens, I am protecting my interests by saying what I'd like to see IF it happens....

[_Sin_]

I think the majority of it is. Now, I'm not TJ, and he of course has the final say, but a lot of that art is very high quality and since we have rather strict rules about concepts, I don't think many will be rejected for not fitting the "feel" of the cave. I'd say about 80% of the stuff on that list is definitely worth releasing.

 

So, 80% of about 500 dragons. That's 400 dragons. With the new release schedule, we're getting about 2 dragons per month, ignoring months with holiday releases, which is an average of 14 dragons per year. 400 divided by 14 is over 28 years worth of dragons- and don't forget, more concepts are being made all the time.

 

So, the Remote Biomes idea is implemented for a number of reasons.

1) To reduce the backlog, so a lot of this high quality work can be seen in-cave.

2) To help with the fact that sooner or later, there will be too many breeds per biome for them to flow effectively. This would leave us with very slow moving caves.

3) To stagger which dragons are available to who (or, if we go with a seasonal biome idea, when) so that people don't get overwhelmed with a huge number of dragons.

4) So that older players who already have completed scrolls have new goals and challenges to work towards.

 

 

In my opinion, those are four really great reasons why Remote Biomes should be implemented. Five, if you add a world-building aspect. And I'm positive that we can find a method, or methods, that allows a real freedom of play-style while not being unfair on either the "newbies" or "veterans".

 

edited to add some numbers to the math bit.

 

1) While I respect the artists and your opinion, considering the very low percentage of artists that in RL get their work published, I think that your assessment is extremely generous. A commercially-oriented approach would lower it significantly. In consequence I don't assume that magnitude of backlog.

2) Actually, if we were to add biomes right now that would leave us with very slow moving caves because the players would be splitting in 12 biomes instead of 6.

3) My response here would restart the argument that I'm trying to avoid so I will go with "no comment."

4) 7 breeds in two months or even two breeds every month seem more than enough for that objective

[whitebaron]

Congratulations, that was really a record. For mathematical reasons a question come to mind: how many of those dragons did you catch and how many were provided, at same stage of their growth, by your "great supporters?"

 

I traded for maybe 440-460 hatchies. 10-20 dragons raised myself, rest gifted. Which means, by extension, that I caught about 50-60 rares in that timespan and traded them away. "metal flood".

 

As for the slow moving biomes, they are crawling for various reasons - lack of players is not the most important one. You just have "too much junk" in them, i.e. breeds that you don't like to pick up.

 

Btw: even though I can get whatever I want from the cave, my main playing style is TRADING. the 7 in 7 release will hurt trades for a long time, as does every new release. I know how to take advantage of that, but the fact that its even possible to do so, shows you that people have a deep inner panic if they miss out on release days. Which is perfectly understandable, looking at those out there who have no self-caught metals, blusangs, or even speckles/trihorns/crimsons.

[Completely Different]

1) While I respect the artists and your opinion, considering the very low percentage of artists that in RL get their work published, I think that your assessment is extremely generous. A commercially-oriented approach would lower it significantly. In consequence I don't assume that magnitude of backlog.

2) Actually, if we were to add biomes right now that would leave us with very slow moving caves because the players would be splitting in 12 biomes instead of 6.

3) My response here would restart the argument that I'm trying to avoid so I will go with "no comment."

4) 7 breeds in two months or even two breeds every month seem more than enough for that objective

1) While that's true, that's because of a fact that there's a limit on demand. There are only so many people willing to buy art, regardless of quality. I think this case is different. I think we have a lot of really good art here; there is clearly demand, or else so many people wouldn't be asking for it to be released. Since we're a dragons adoptables site, and people want to adopt them, I think we should try out best to get them out there.

 

2) I'm not saying to add it right now. But I really think that in a couple years or two I think we will need to start adding remote biomes as the current ones become more clogged with breeds.

 

3) I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

4) 7 in breeds in two months is definitely great (looking forward to it!), but that's a special occasion. Personally, as someone who has basically completed their scroll goals, I don't really find two breeds a month that challenging, since I can basically catch them within a week of their release. I also think the fact that quite a few people in a similar position to me said they're looking for more of a challenge suggests I'm not alone in this regard.

[Vhale]

I'd add that it's what caused the current focus on lineages. If there aren't many new things to get, then what do people do? They trade or lineage. I went on a biting spree this week and had a great run. 10/13. But all random AP drops, except I did take all lineaged dragons. Some messy, some short, some pretty. I put 4 of those vamps in the main giveaway thread, the Departure Board on ffa teleports.

 

One got taken and they never said thanks. The other three I reposted in the morning and they still didn't get taken. If dragons that can't even breed are looked down upon as unworthy, when they are incuhatchable (4d4) and have a BSA, lineages are a pretty big deal. It's a bit crazy really.

 

I think I need to get off my butt and put up a poll though. We had more than one suggestion so... eeny meeny it is!

 

I think I'll do the dragon raising one.

 

Conservative estimate on dragon raising?

 

5 Dragons (1 week)

10 Dragons (2 weeks)

15 Dragons (2 weeks)

20 Dragons (3 weeks)

30 Dragons (4 weeks)

40 Dragons (5 weeks)

50 Dragons (6 weeks)

60 Dragons (8 weeks)

70 Dragons (9 weeks)

This is based on no incubates, 4 egg slots and taking a 1 day break. Or will that just skew people negatively?

Edited May 12, 2013 by Vhale

[_Sin_]

One got taken and they never said thanks. The other three I reposted in the morning and they still didn't get taken. If dragons that can't even breed are looked down upon as unworthy, when they are incuhatchable (4d4) and have a BSA, lineages are a pretty big deal. It's a bit crazy really.

I would think that has nothing to do with your eggs but with the fact that people are "stocking" on Reds and Pinks in preparation to the "7 dragons in 7 days" thingy.

[Vhale]

I've had the same thing happen with messy metals in the TGT thread, well before this release. No takers. No thanks when people do take them. Even for nice stairs like this: http://dragcave.net/lineage/Rs4QA You basically have to hunt people down to gift them to, these days. And there are plenty of other eggs in that thread getting picked up.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Vhale

[injenn]

I've had the same thing happen with messy metals in the TGT thread, well before this release. No takers. No thanks when people do take them. Even for nice stairs like this: http://dragcave.net/lineage/Rs4QA You basically have to hunt people down to gift them to, these days. And there are plenty of other eggs in that thread getting picked up.

People are just ungrateful sometimes. Other times they don't have forum accounts. I've started making people have to offer a dummy egg to take anything I give away. I've found that when you make them wait 10-15 minutes and give some suspense they tend to say thanks more than when they just grab it fast. I've been encouraging others to do the same thing.

 

By the way, I think the 7 dragons in 7 days thing is a test to see what releasing a large number of dragons in a short time will do! If it goes well we just might see our new biomes someday.

[Amazon_warrior]

I've had the same thing happen with messy metals in the TGT thread, well before this release. No takers. No thanks when people do take them. Even for nice stairs like this: http://dragcave.net/lineage/Rs4QA You basically have to hunt people down to gift them to, these days. And there are plenty of other eggs in that thread getting picked up.

I'm not much into stairs, but that's a pretty cool one.

 

I had someone not bother to say thank you when I sent them their 3rd gen Shimmer, so.... :| Ok, yes, it was the completion of a trade, but I'd thanked them happily for what they sent me. And I've had gifted 2nd and 3rd gen Shimmerkins disappear from my scroll without a word of acknowledgment too. I was brought up to say "please" when asking for things and "thank you" if I received something - is it really that hard? :s *waves stick, grumbles about those pesky kids on the lawn* I usually do the "PM me if you want it" thing anyway - I learned that trick a long time ago.

 

I think my 7/7 spreadsheet's sorted now, so I'm ready! Aiming for 4 of each initially, but ultimately I'll be wanting 19 CBs of each (133 in total). 'S a lot of dragons.

[_Sin_]

Now that is rude. Does not take a lot of effort to post a "Thank you" so I don't understand.

 

On the 7x7: being extremely stubborn and knowing that the breeds will be permanent, I plan on hunting for the new releases only after seeing the sprites of the adults. I make a point of collecting only the sprites I like but I'm feeling a bit left out considering all the excitement of family and friends

[Fiona]

Plus I like to send a quick thank you so we both know the transfer is complete and successful.

 

I don't think the 7 breeds in 7 days for DC's 7th birthday is a test of anything. I think it's just cuz it's a cool thing for DC's birthday. However, it does seem like a good indication to the players that releasing a large number when/if the remote biomes go into effect isn't going to blow up the game. We'd be just fine.

[Nite_Spriter]

^Sweet.

[Spelunker]

I don't think the 7 breeds in 7 days for DC's 7th birthday is a test of anything. I think it's just cuz it's a cool thing for DC's birthday. However, it does seem like a good indication to the players that releasing a large number when/if the remote biomes go into effect isn't going to blow up the game. We'd be just fine.

Thank the gods, common sense has come!

 

Though seriously, larger releases wouldn't make the game implode.

 

If remote biomes came into being, I'd like it if there weren't any releases there for 2-3 months so people could collect the numbers of the remote breeds.