New Auto-Abandon System

[NazDrag]

Well I wouldn't support it. The "rules" were, first, that anything over your limit autoabandoned in 30 minutes. Then the rules were changed, making it up to 24 hours, which is *plenty* of time to set up a trade. Now, because of confusion, the rules will be changed back to 30 minutes.

 

While I agree something longer then 30 minutes is needed, I do *not* think anyone should be allowed to hold an egg over their limit for THREE days. 24 hours is plenty.

Well, I see where this thinking comes in. It does seem excessive at first glance, BUT the problem here seems to be the confusion enveloping the auto abandon time. If it were made to when they first hatched to auto abandon, players would be able to tell when their egg was close to hatching (even the newer players, not everyone knows eggs hatch around 4 days) and find a home for it.

 

I just tried to throw a user-friendly solution out there that solves the whole confusion problem. Again, just my 2 cents

[Karobb]

I keep seeing people say you can lose adults hollies. Has this actually happened to anyone?

 

The only story I saw was about someone losing a hatchie which was on the same scroll as an adult and an egg in teleport, so the adult counted as one and the egg counted as tow causing the hatchie (which counted as three) to auto.

 

Had they been two adults not sure this would have happened as the egg itself would have been counted as the third and cannot auto because it is held in teleport.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Karobb

[DragonNighthowler]

I keep seeing people say you can lose adults hollies. Has this actually happened to anyone?

 

The only story I saw was about someone losing a hatchie which was on the same scroll as an adult and an egg in teleport, so the adult counted as one and the egg counted as one causing the hatchie to auto.

 

Had they been two adults not sure this would have happened as the egg itself would have been counted as the third and cannot auto because it is held in teleport.

If there had been 2 adults and an egg on TP, the next youngest would be abandoned, which would be one of the adults (it would go to the wild, like the hatchie did).

It seems like it has happened, although I haven't heard it first hand from anyone. But TJ himself has said it does happen.

[Windnose]

I guess the simplest thing to do is to make a holiday egg in teleport not count towards the limit, but make the teleport be checked by the system after 24 hours if it contains a limited breed and the player is at their limit. If so, auto-cancel the teleport and send the egg to the AP.

This. I like this idea.

 

Though, I want the game to recognize that the egg(s) in the teleport is the one to auto-AP and not any eggs out of the teleport.

 

 

 

ETA: Or heck, even if something was just implemented where we could go to a page during a holiday breeding season and put check marks next to two of the holiday dragons of each breed we want to keep so the game would know that those should not be auto-APed for any reason (if you have less than your limit of a breed, but then acquire your limit, those check marks would be automatically placed next to the first two dragons of that breed you received). I know this would be more work, but I don't see how it would confuse the game in anyway, and it would be a nice way for users to feel more comfortable gifting; we would know our precious dragons are safe.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Windnose

[sheppardkid]

If there had been 2 adults and an egg on TP, the next youngest would be abandoned, which would be one of the adults (it would go to the wild, like the hatchie did).

It seems like it has happened, although I haven't heard it first hand from anyone. But TJ himself has said it does happen.

I have two adult Hollies and bred them. Each produced an egg, which I then gifted. I had one of them in a teleport for about an hour and neither of my adults were auto'ed. I'm not sure if the adults being abandoned is something that happens when the grace period is up or if it's some sort of unfortunate glitch.

[Windnose]

Yes well this thread is just a continuation of your thoughts in the last thread. I do not blame TJ, I mean why be bothered, he tried to improve things by making the 24 hour hold for trades and now people are complaining about that also. Guy can't win can he.

I'm sure you'd be complaining too if it was your low gen, named Holly hatchling that you could not even protect in a dummy teleport because you cannot put named dragons in teleports. The 24 hours was an improvement, but not as great of an improvement as it could be when it has loop holes like it does and nothing fully, completely, or clearly explains all the little rules that go along with this improvement. The current way is flawed and we just want to fix it. TJ said that it would go back to the 30 min auto-AP for next V-day, but he never said it would be a permanent change and he hasn't came by to lock this; this is our chance to help him because we all know that every holiday to come while we are stuck with the 30 min rules, people will complain, complain, and complain some more. If he didn't like reading just a couple pages of one thread, there's no way he will enjoy +100 pages of our complaining every holiday season. If we come up with a new system that makes sense and isn't full of loop holes again, I'm sure he will listen and give us what we want.

[Karobb]

Actually the dragon could have been unnamed and put in a teleport to your point. To my point, however, I bet the hatchie was the third holly on the scroll. Adult being holly 1, egg being holly 2, and hatchie holly 3. Had the egg been gotten last I am sure the hatchie would still be there.

 

Also, I have my suspicions, as auto's go to the AP, not the wild, wondering if perhaps someone had their scroll info and just got mad and released the hatchie.

 

I just don't see the point of always trying to over complicate things really, limit of 2 dragons seems fairly simple to me.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Karobb

[Windnose]

Actually the dragon could have been unnamed and put in a teleport to your point.  To my point, however, I bet the hatchie was the third holly on the scroll.   Adult being holly 1, egg being holly 2, and hatchie holly 3.  Had the egg been gotten last I am sure the hatchie would still be there.

 

Also, I have my suspicions, as auto's go to the AP, not the wild, wondering if perhaps someone had their scroll info and just got mad and released the hatchie.

 

I just don't see the point of always trying to over complicate things really, limit of 2 dragons seems fairly simple to me.

The user thought that having it named would protect it and believed they did not need to unname it and put it in a teleport. At that time (TJ seems to have since edited the Breed Limits page to kind of help explain this, but it doesn't explain it enough, in my opinion), no where did it say that named hatchlings are in threat of being auto-APed/auto-wilded.

 

The user said the egg was the 3rd/last Holly to be put on their scroll. How likely is it that they managed to obtain a Holly hatchling? Most, if not all, are traded as eggs, and most people would not hold on to a Holly egg until it hatched if they weren't planning on keeping it. The egg wasn't auto-APed because it was in a teleport.

 

(ETA: I lost a holiday egg this season that I wanted to keep because I forgot to put it in a dummy teleport. It was the second of that breed on my scroll but the game chose to auto-AP it instead of the 3rd of that breed because that other dragon egg was already in a transfer to gift. It was completely my fault for forgetting; I'm just backing up that the game does choose the youngest unprotected of that over-the-limit breed to dump when auto-AP time comes along.)

 

It was named. Named dragons are released into the wild because named hatchlings cannot go into the AP.

 

The limit is simple, but, unfortunately, gifting/teleporting is not; which is what causes the confusion and complaining.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Windnose

[Pokemonfan13]

It is POSSIBLE to have the egg in teleport be able to be autoed [it is how the system originally was]. Therefore I have this simple proposal.

 

24 hour grace like before.

The egg/hatchling in teleport is the priority to get rid of.

 

Why? Because the two that are not in teleport are obviously what the person intended to keep. The egg in teleport is one they are trying to get rid of. It's one thing if a trade/gift fails because the intended recipient couldn't manage to check the forums [or whatever other system was used to transfer the tele link] for an entire day. It's another thing altogether if the trade/gift is able to go through at the cost of the person sending the holiday loosing one of their own personal dragons. Be it egg, hatchling, or adult, it is extremely likely that they intended to keep it. After all, if they planned on abandoning/releasing it they probably would have done so already.

 

 

Honestly, I suspect the people who were asking for teleport immunity from autoing were really asking to not have eggs in teleport count for the limits at all, or if they were asking for what we got they did a horrible job of thinking about the consequences, that if the teleport egg couldn't auto it meant that one of the other two had to.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Pokemonfan13

[KageSora]

That would mean being able to hold onto eggs above your limit for THREE days. I think that's excessive and unnecessary.

Actually, you could hold them for nearly a WEEK, assuming you don't get them any views or anything.

 

That, I agree, is DEFINITELY way more time than needed.

 

 

 

I'm fully in support of the idea of making the egg(s)/hatchling(s) in Teleport being the ones to auto if time runs out. You get your grace period of 24 hours, when it's up you lose the extra. If it wasn't in Teleport, odds are you planned to keep it.

 

 

Actually, that's honestly how I thought it worked myself until I checked the forums. I'm lucky and can usually mange to be on all hours of the day if I needed to for trading/gifting with somebody across the world. But not everybody is lucky enough to have that much free time or to be healthy/young/whatever enough to handle being up half the night or something.

[Fuzzbucket]

Just to clarify something - when TJ said eggs in teleport were protected, he referred not just to holiday eggs. Nothing in a teleport can be abandoned - as he said days ago - not by the scroll owner or autod - and this includes holiday eggs.

 

Which was why I thought ending that protection just over holidays would be the answer....

[TheGrox]

It is POSSIBLE to have the egg in teleport be able to be autoed [it is how the system originally was].  Therefore I have this simple proposal.

 

24 hour grace like before.

The egg/hatchling in teleport is the priority to get rid of.

 

Why?  Because the two that are not in teleport are obviously what the person intended to keep.  The egg in teleport is one they are trying to get rid of.  It's one thing if a trade/gift fails because the intended recipient couldn't manage to check the forums [or whatever other system was used to transfer the tele link] for an entire day.  It's another thing altogether if the trade/gift is able to go through at the cost of the person sending the holiday loosing one of their own personal dragons.  Be it egg, hatchling, or adult, it is extremely likely that they intended to keep it.  After all, if they planned on abandoning/releasing it they probably would have done so already.

 

 

Honestly, I suspect the people who were asking for teleport immunity from autoing were really asking to not have eggs in teleport count for the limits at all, or if they were asking for what we got they did a horrible job of thinking about the consequences, that if the teleport egg couldn't auto it meant that one of the other two had to.

I think pokemonfan summed it up very well, and this is what I've wanted from the start.

 

Also, @fuzzbucket, TJ may have said that, but when I asked him on the IRC about this the other day, he said that making eggs in teleports be the ones to auto abandon was exactly what he was planning to do.

Edited December 26, 2012 by TheGrox

[Fuzzbucket]

I think pokemonfan summed it up very well, and this is what I've wanted from the start.

 

Also, @fuzzbucket, TJ may have said that, but when I asked him on the IRC about this the other day, he said that making eggs in teleports be the ones to auto abandon was exactly what he was planning to do.

GREAT - so in that case why can we not keep the 24 hours ? It makes gifting so much easier over busy holidays !

[olympe]

I keep seeing people say you can lose adults hollies. Has this actually happened to anyone?

 

The only story I saw was about someone losing a hatchie which was on the same scroll as an adult and an egg in teleport, so the adult counted as one and the egg counted as tow causing the hatchie (which counted as three) to auto.

 

Had they been two adults not sure this would have happened as the egg itself would have been counted as the third and cannot auto because it is held in teleport.

I've seen someone mention losing an adult Christmas dragon last year, while they had one egg of that kind in (protected) teleport. I don't remember if it was a holly, though, but definitely a Christmas dragon. And if it can happen to any Christmas dragons, it can happen to hollies, too.

have two adult Hollies and bred them. Each produced an egg, which I then gifted. I had one of them in a teleport for about an hour and neither of my adults were auto'ed. I'm not sure if the adults being abandoned is something that happens when the grace period is up or if it's some sort of unfortunate glitch.

That's pretty much the scenario that happened last year: Someone bred an egg from either of their two adults and put it in teleport. The egg went unclaimed for 24 hours, but the player didn't mind too much, expecting the egg to get abandoned. Instead, one of the adults was released into the wild.

 

Actually the dragon could have been unnamed and put in a teleport to your point. To my point, however, I bet the hatchie was the third holly on the scroll. Adult being holly 1, egg being holly 2, and hatchie holly 3. Had the egg been gotten last I am sure the hatchie would still be there.

This doesn't work. Because the player affected stated clearly that the hatchie was caught in the AP, while the egg was bred on their scroll. And, although you can breed when at your limit, you cannot catch or accept teleports any more. So, the bred egg must have been the youngest and last acquired holly on that scroll.

 

Though, I want the game to recognize that the egg(s) in the teleport is the one to auto-AP and not any eggs out of the teleport.

I don't know how this should be implemented - after all, if you catch an egg you want to gift and then breed one for keeping, the system will cause a problem with the "auto-abandon the youngest item of that breed" policy.

 

GREAT - so in that case why can we not keep the 24 hours ? It makes gifting so much easier over busy holidays !

This, totally this! Or - just don't let eggs/hatchies in teleports count towards your scroll limit for auto-abandoning purposes only. (Obviously, you still shouldn't be able to pick up even more of that breed if you are at the limit.)

[TheGrox]

GREAT - so in that case why can we not keep the 24 hours ? It makes gifting so much easier over busy holidays !

That's what I asked him next... To which he didn't reply

[olympe]

I'm afraid that he took the users' wishes a little too literally. The way he understood it, we wanted eggs in teleport protected from being auto-abandoned at all cost, which is what he gave us. As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm afraid that he took the users' wishes a little too literally. The way he understood it, we wanted eggs in teleport protected from being auto-abandoned at all cost, which is what he gave us. As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

But the only eggs that would ever auto abandon are over the limit holiday eggs so that doesn't make sense.... Other eggs in teleport don't NEED protection....

[Obscure_Trash]

Here's what I would like to see:

 

-The 24 hours (perhaps 23 to account for time to put in teleport after it is bred) stays, but the teleport protection does not

and/or

-Once you have more than two of the holiday on your scroll, the cave prompts you to choose which will autoabandon after x amount of time if it is still on your scroll by then

 

Those may need simplifications to make them realistic, though.

 

If the consequences on the help page are unclear, may we please receive guidance on what exactly needs work so that it can be fixed? :3

The help section is easily available 24/7 so I'm not sure a specific link during the holiday time is necessary. But I know TJ is always happy to hear where help needs expanded or clarified.

[Pokemonfan13]

OOoooooh! I LOVE the idea of the cave having you select the one that would abandon if the time runs out when you first go over the limit. You keep a bred egg and are immediately taken to a page where you can view information on each egg, hatchling, and adult [lineage, etc] to make sure you don't make a mistake and you choose which leaves your scroll if you don't get rid of the extra within the 24 hours.

 

Ideally make the main scroll page redirect to this page, or at least put a message where the sickness message goes, something like:

"You have not yet selected the unwanted holiday dragon of breed ______. If you do not want to risk a dragon you wanted to keep being abandoned/released when the time runs out, choose now."

With a link to that page

 

And if you choose something you later put in teleport, it abandons that egg, teleport or no.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Pokemonfan13

[Fuzzbucket]

OOoooooh! I LOVE the idea of the cave having you select the one that would abandon if the time runs out when you first go over the limit. You keep a bred egg and are immediately taken to a page where you can view information on each egg, hatchling, and adult [lineage, etc] to make sure you don't make a mistake and you choose which leaves your scroll if you don't get rid of the extra within the 24 hours.

 

Ideally make the main scroll page redirect to this page, or at least put a message where the sickness message goes, something like:

"You have not yet selected the unwanted holiday dragon of breed ______. If you do not want to risk a dragon you wanted to keep being abandoned/released when the time runs out, choose now."

With a link to that page

 

And if you choose something you later put in teleport, it abandons that egg, teleport or no.

BRILLIANT ! Fixes it all with one (massive probably) piece of coding !

[olympe]

I think that's the easiest way to go. No misunderstanding, and the choosing part could work similar to when you choose one egg from a multi-clutch to keep - only the effect will be different. (Lots of coding that can be recycled...)