Sexism

[Miyasha]

Nonfeminist ciswomen != women in feminist movements and my feminist buddies.

 

No one is trying to deny that there is white male privilege. But that doesn't make it right for others to be racist and sexist right back to them. Two wrongs never make a right, isn't that what they teach in kindergarten?

Correct. Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't agree with acts of violence or acts intended to hurt, by anyone, even if they feel justified. (except in self defense, of course... and I might be biased, but as an abuse survivor, I am going to go ahead and say victims are allowed to be dicks to their abusers)

 

There is sexism and racism on a cultural scale and there is also racism and sexism on an everyday interaction level. To claim that one or the other isn't true racism or true sexism is ignorant.

 

I have a bad habit of not being entirely clear when attempting to come across. I tried to say that in one of my posts, 'that' being I'm referring to a broader scale.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Miyasha

[philpot123]

I have a bad habit of not being entirely clear when attempting to come across. I tried to say that in one of my posts, 'that' being I'm referring to a broader scale.

I still completely disagree with your assumption that males cannot be subjected to sexism by females. If you're referring to cultural oppression, it may NOT be happening at this particular instant in this particular society, but to claim that it CANNOT happen?

[Miyasha]

They can be, but they are currently not in the process of being culturally oppressed. There's no physical barrier preventing it from happening. But in order for that to happen, they'd have to lose their privilege and... the privilege it affords them.

[7Deadly$ins]

Sure, women might be in a position that incites much MORE sexism, and there might be a much wider, culturally acceptable level of it... but men can still be victims of sexism. Same with racism.

[Rosedamai]

I think that patriarchy hurts both men and women institutionally, just that the effects on women are more visible to see.

 

For example: Patriarchy demands that men be emotionally distant and gruff, which creates havoc for many, many fathers. I think that's an example of institutional sexism. Another example can be the limited choice that men face, being told that "this is women's work" (cooking) or something like that.

[elderberrysyrup]

I think that patriarchy hurts both men and women institutionally, just that the effects on women are more visible to see.

 

For example: Patriarchy demands that men be emotionally distant and gruff, which creates havoc for many, many fathers. I think that's an example of institutional sexism. Another example can be the limited choice that men face, being told that "this is women's work" (cooking) or something like that.

This doesn't explain how most of the world-famous chefs are male.

[Rosedamai]

This doesn't explain how most of the world-famous chefs are male.

No no no, I meant that in normal everyday life, how boys are told to do masculine things and girls are told to do feminine things and such. Perhpas cooking wasn't a good example. I wanted to point out how people are taught to conform to gender roles instead of doing things that they want to do.

[Kestra15]

Then, by that reasoning, you might as well call this entire thread judgemental. Calling someone of something sexist is judging them/it.

Yes, it is.

[St. Jimmy]

I'm just going to say that, if you're a teenager, and watch children's shows, and complain that your parents don't treat you like an adult, then please stop complaining.

So, what if there was a teenager who liked kid shows. They also have a job, get top marks in school, and help out around the house without expecting anything in return. They act mature when the situation calls for it. But just because they watch kid shows, they deserve to be treated like a child? Sounds pretty unfair to me.

[Kestra15]

So, what if there was a teenager who liked kid shows. They also have a job, get top marks in school, and help out around the house without expecting anything in return. They act mature when the situation calls for it. But just because they watch kid shows, they deserve to be treated like a child? Sounds pretty unfair to me.

Don't worry, you can join the nurses, doctors, pharmacists, physiotherapists, teachers, CEOs, movie directors, film stars and Vin Diesel in that same category.

[Kestra15]

Alright. Now you're taking it way out of context, Kestra.

Not really. See, you're judging everyone for their choice in television programs, saying how we should stick to our 'age category' and 'gender' when choosing shows. But not only are you actively ignoring your own edicts - as per your previous post about not wanting to do 'girly things' - you are also unable to see that you a judging people.

 

Making assumptions about someone based on their choice of TV program, or gender, or preference to entertainment, is judging someone. In fact it's the textbook definition of being judgmental.

 

So no, I'm actually spot-on context.

[St. Jimmy]

In where did I say that you deserve to be treated like a child if you do? I didn't. I never said anything about those who don't complain, either. I said that those who complain. Honestly.

Maybe said teenager does complain? They have every right to, if their parents are treating them unfairly and concentrating on that one little detail instead of all the mature things they do.

[Kestra15]

Oh, so I'm supposed to sit down with every single one of these people, get to know them on a nick-name bases, and not judge them by what they watch or do or say, but who they really are on the inside?

Yes. Or at least get to know them well enough to actually know who you are talking to and stop making such ridiculous generalisations. Edited May 14, 2012 by Kestra15

[St. Jimmy]

If you had taken any time whatsoever to look at my post than more than one way, you just might actually see that I'm talking about those teenagers whose parents don't treat them like adults because they act immature, are lazy, and don't take responsibility for their actions. Sorry I didn't iterate myself to where my meaning and point were word for word of what I was thinking.

Where in any of your previous posts did you say that? All I saw was the part about watching kid shows. Also, I am autistic and have a hard time understanding implied stuff. If someone doesn't outright say it, I can't tell what they mean. I apologize if I missed something.

 

I stick to my own age category, thank you very much.

Good for you. Doesn't make you any better or worse than the rest of us, it just means you have different preferences.

 

Oh, so I'm supposed to sit down with every single one of these people, get to know them on a nick-name bases, and not judge them by what they watch or do or say, but who they really are on the inside?

Not necessarily. But I try to assume someone is a decent person until they prove otherwise.

[Princess Artemis]

Oh, so I'm supposed to sit down with every single one of these people, get to know them on a nick-name bases, and not judge them by what they watch or do or say, but who they really are on the inside? I can tell you now that that's not going to happen, because there are too many people to sit down and talk to and get to know in the subject that we're talking about.

More or less, yeah, that's what ought to happen as far as what they watch--if they watch something you don't like, that doesn't make them unacceptable (your words). Y'know, judging people for the content of their character and all that?

 

What people do or say is a good indication of their character, and occasionally so is what they watch, but in this case, young men watching a show about how friendship is fantastic really does not say anything bad about their character. If they behave badly, that says something about them, far more than watching a cartoon you don't like.

 

A good rule of thumb is what St. Jimmy does--assume people are decent unless they prove otherwise. It's not always the best way to handle life, but by and large it works, and I've found, at least, that a good many people respond well to it when I don't assume they are terrible people just because of X, or Y, or Z.

 

That's the heart of it, pretty much: treat people with respect.

[Zovesta]

Oh, so I'm supposed to sit down with every single one of these people, get to know them on a nick-name bases, and not judge them by what they watch or do or say, but who they really are on the inside?

Yeah I generally like to automatically assume that pretty much everyone else sucks too

[Syaoransbear]

Oh, so I'm supposed to sit down with every single one of these people, get to know them on a nick-name bases, and not judge them by what they watch or do or say, but who they really are on the inside?

Judging people by what the watch on tv is so ridiculous. It makes me wonder what you think of people who like horror movies.

 

How can you judge people so harshly for watching a kid's show when you are playing a kid's game(DC)?

 

As an adult, most TV that is targeted towards my age group is either very sexual, very violent, or both. I like to take a break and watch kid's cartoons because violence and sex is just boring now and very unoriginal. Cartoons can get away with some really creative plots that you wouldn't be able to do with human actors in adult shows. The episode of MLP where all the pegasus ponies have to fly around in a circle to create a tornado that would suck up the water from the ground and raise it up to Cloudsdale definitely couldn't be done with human actors or even human cartoon characters. It's nice to get away from all the drama and negativity of adult shows and watch something that isn't going to leave you feeling pissed off.

 

Adult shows and kid's shows are both very limited but in completely different ways, so if you flip flop between them TV is less boring. Judging someone by what they watch on tv, let alone by just one thing they watch is very narrow minded.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Syaoransbear

[Sookan]

My Little Pony isn't strictly a children's show. An interesting fact about a lot of programming whose marketing targets younger viewers is that many of them contain jokes and references that only an adult or a very astute and precocious child could get.

 

Why?

 

Well, if you limit your market to one specific age group, you're castrating your profit margin from the get-go. An all-inclusive product will not only sell better, but more widely.

 

Secondly, a lot of mums and dads have to sit and watch colourful pre-school characters bounce around the screen with their children. Once upon a time, I thought that would be a suitable premise for an eternal purgatory, but whilst at home sick one day and without enough strength to wiggle the mouse around, I decided that my already-melting brain had nothing to lose and I endured a few hours of kid's TV.

 

I laughed until I cried. Then I laughed some more. I doubt that I was laughing at the same things your average 4-year-old would have laughed at, but it most certainly was not boring. And hey, I learned my times tables and the alphabet (again) as an added bonus.

 

Frankly, I have a lot of pity for people who feel they are forced to conform to entertainment models just to satisfy their peer group. I can watch anime and then pick up a Shakespearian work straight afterwards. I can hustle in a D&D roleplaying group, and then head on down to the cinema that same night. Don't bother none!

 

Respect others (as stated above), be happy with yourself, and you really can't go far wrong.

[Vhale]

I twisted arms to get a couple coworkers to enjoy a board game after work one evening. They were very surprised at how much fun they had. Sadly, a lot of people feel that the only adult entertainment should be bar-hopping and sports >.<

 

Anywho, a friend of mine posted this and I thought it was hilarious and I must share

 

[Princess Artemis]

I love the Hulk on that. I've seen it before and I think it illustrates the point pretty well.

[Kestra15]

I love the Hulk on that. I've seen it before and I think it illustrates the point pretty well.

"If you've got it, flaunt it." /chauvinism.

[KageSora]

My Little Pony isn't strictly a children's show. An interesting fact about a lot of programming whose marketing targets younger viewers is that many of them contain jokes and references that only an adult or a very astute and precocious child could get.

 

Why?

 

Well, if you limit your market to one specific age group, you're castrating your profit margin from the get-go. An all-inclusive product will not only sell better, but more widely.

 

Secondly, a lot of mums and dads have to sit and watch colourful pre-school characters bounce around the screen with their children. Once upon a time, I thought that would be a suitable premise for an eternal purgatory, but whilst at home sick one day and without enough strength to wiggle the mouse around, I decided that my already-melting brain had nothing to lose and I endured a few hours of kid's TV.

 

I laughed until I cried. Then I laughed some more. I doubt that I was laughing at the same things your average 4-year-old would have laughed at, but it most certainly was not boring. And hey, I learned my times tables and the alphabet (again) as an added bonus.

 

Frankly, I have a lot of pity for people who feel they are forced to conform to entertainment models just to satisfy their peer group. I can watch anime and then pick up a Shakespearian work straight afterwards. I can hustle in a D&D roleplaying group, and then head on down to the cinema that same night. Don't bother none!

 

Respect others (as stated above), be happy with yourself, and you really can't go far wrong.

Yep, gotta love the Parental Bonus!

 

 

Also, agreed. I don't watch a lot of TV because, honestly, there's nothing on that appeals to me. The one thing I used to watch pretty regularly I've even fallen pretty behind on because it's just fallen so far into "Waiting to be canceled because they're refusing to let it die a dignified death" territory (IMO) that it's almost painful to watch more often than not.

 

But kids shows? Cartoons? Kids' anime? Well hey--that's usually a lot more interesting to me. Either WTF-induced laughter from ridiculous stuff or it's actually got an interesting plot and handles being a long-runner very well.

 

I'd rather be thought childish but able to enjoy my free time than treated like an adult but be miserable because I had to give up everything I loved.

 

It's also one of the reasons I hate the idea of "girls shows" and "boys shows". If I want to watch something with giant robots and laser cannons and explosions, I will and nothing will stop me. But, if I want to watch a cute show with ponies and centering around friendship (which, honestly, is NOT a kids-only theme), I will. I'm not being too much of a "tomboy" or a "girly girl" for liking either. Just like I'm not being "immature" if I happen to, say, enjoy watching a TV show aimed at kids. I'm immature for plenty of other reasons. ;P

 

I twisted arms to get a couple coworkers to enjoy a board game after work one evening. They were very surprised at how much fun they had. Sadly, a lot of people feel that the only adult entertainment should be bar-hopping and sports >.<

 

Anywho, a friend of mine posted this and I thought it was hilarious and I must share

 

Haha, I love it! I've seen a few blogs dedicated to pointing out what's wrong with the female characters. (My favorite is Escher Girls (May contain language, and contains many pictures of scantly-clad girls though they all come from comic books and the like))

 

There's nothing wrong with them being in a "sexy" pose--what IS wrong is that the males aren't in the same "broken anatomy" poses. (Seriously, what's sexy about somebody who has clearly had their spine liquefied? Because that's the only way some of those poses are possible. Also, some of them clearly don't have organs, there's just no room in their bodies for them considering how tiny their waists are)

 

But some of the commentary on the anatomy of the poses used just cracks me up so much.

 

There's also a lot of re-draws that people submit--they take the broken pose, and redraw it. They can sometimes keep the "sexy" without breaking the anatomy, or the redraw using a different pose for the sexy+anatomy if the pose is just too broken.

 

Also, this:

 

(click for source)

[Princess Artemis]

I've just been reading a blog by a woman who doesn't hold much truck with smothering her children in small, protective bubbles in order to keep them safe in a very safe country. She linked to an article entitled "How to Spot a Predator", which was written by a mother who overheard an older gentleman speaking to two young boys in a sandwich shop. He asked where they went to school, who they planned to marry when they grew up, and asking them math problems. The boys were quite cheerfully answering.

 

This woman, overcome by the certainty that the man was a predator for asking them "grooming" questions, marched over and, without so much as an introduction to the children, asked them where their parents were. The children, rather wisely, didn't answer this demanding stranger! She glared hard at the man, in order to let him know in no uncertain terms that she was onto him, then went to the counter and loudly talked to a cashier, pointing out the man and asking if they knew who he was, who the children were, where their parents were.

 

She concluded her article by declaring that she had no idea if the man was a predator or not, but thought it was a good idea to share what kind of questions a "bad stranger" might ask, and to let people know that trusting one's instincts is a good idea.

 

Apparently what defines a person as a "bad stranger" is: Older, male, and speaking to children. It's also, apparently, OK to demand answers to questions from strange children if a woman does it. Especially a self-righteous woman with a gut feeling.

 

Not to discount sixth-sense instincts, just, y'know, if they are based on raging misandry, maaaaaaybe be a little less obvious about it? I feel terrible for my nephews, growing up in a world where they are auto-perverts and predators simply because they are male : (

[Rosedamai]

See, I hate the fact that the world has becoming a less trusting place for men to the point that sth like that happens, Princess Artemis. Men just seem to be portrayed not as humans but as beasts who cannot control their urges. Another example here-

 

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-rusc...0,7341162.story

 

TL;DR-single gay father gets accused of molesting his two daughters after he takes a picture of them in the bath w him.

 

What has this world gotten to?

 

ETA-the girls were toddlers

Edited May 17, 2012 by ylangylang

[TikindiDragon]

TL;DR-single gay father gets accused of molesting his two daughters after he takes a picture of them in the bath w him.

 

What has this world gotten to?

 

ETA-the girls were toddlers

See I know there's pictures of my Dad in the bath with my sister and I (clearly taken by my mother, who would have been out of the bath holding the camera). When we were growing up it wasn't seen as a bad thing for a parent to be in the bath with their young kids to help teach them it was fun and an OK place to be. These days? I'm pretty certain that almost any picture like that, regardless of the sexuality of the man involved, would send at least one person crying to the authorities.

 

It's deeply saddening - and does hark back to what Artemis said in her post. Almost all men these days are regarded as auto-perverts simply because they're male. And I don't think it's doing anything to help fathers bond with their kids if they have to be so goddamned careful that some stranger doesn't decide they're abusing them.