Sexism

[Ashes The Second]

Woah oh my god please tell me you're joking

LOL. Yeah, all I see when i see 'woman'. D. Sorry.

 

ot; I get a very, very strong sense when I am near people, like older men, with the whole 'biker look'. It makes me automatically think they are predators and dangerous. I am growing up in an area where it is not safe to go outside during the day because cars are parked weirdly around my neighborhood. It makes me extremely nervous when an 'uncle' of someone goes up and talks to someone I know/am friends with who is my age, because I don't know I can trust that man. I know it's probably sexist, but my house has been broken into twice. I live in a good neighborhood, although two doors down is a lady who has.. social issues, to be polite. She once tried to report us for 'a barking dog'. She's been living there about two years, and we've been here seven or eight. I live in a place where Hispanics are on the bad side of the tracks, and it makes me really wary. I also used to have a friend who beat and abused a person who was really close to me. I reported her as soon as I heard, a month after she had begun abusing my other friend, and by then the friend was near death. She's in a mental hospital, and the abused is also in a hospital.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Ashes The Second

[Kestra15]

But that still doesn't make the mens' actions in these stories acceptable. It is not OK to grope anyone publicly without their consent. I doubt a man would like for a woman to come up to him in public and randomly grope his testicles (and painfully, too) without any particular reason other than "He was wearing something sexy." It just lacks common decency. Respect other's personal space, keep your rude comments to yourself, and just let be.

...and I see you failed to read the rest of the post.

[Zovesta]

...and I see you failed to read the rest of the post.

The thing is, you seemed to be ignoring the fact that there were men listed in there PLENTY of times that weren't old by any sense. X) In fact, the majority of it is younger men in cars, yelling on streets, etc.

 

I really am not seeing why you seem to have such a problem with accepting the fact that those women getting harassed like that is flat-out wrong. =| Or did they deserve it somehow?

 

I'm sorry to hear that, Ashes. D=

Edited May 23, 2012 by Zovesta

[kiffren]

I removed the link that Zovesta linked as the discussion within seemed a bit excessive and graphic. I will summarize it below so that you may continue to discuss it if you wish. ^^

 

Summary:

 

The link contained multiple accounts by women of sexual harassment from random men on the streets. Many of the accounts contained details of some random man touching himself inappropriately while looking at the female. I'd guess there were about ten accounts of that. Other accounts were just of females being leered at, honked at, and/or having "terrible things" said to them.

[Dragunov12]

I'm a male feminist.

 

 

[Kestra15]

The thing is, you seemed to be ignoring the fact that there were men listed in there PLENTY of times that weren't old by any sense. X) In fact, the majority of it is younger men in cars, yelling on streets, etc.

 

I really am not seeing why you seem to have such a problem with accepting the fact that those women getting harassed like that is flat-out wrong. =| Or did they deserve it somehow?

 

I'm sorry to hear that, Ashes. D=

*sigh*

 

Mental problems affect people of any age. So the point stands; there may be more behind it than just men being lecherous.

 

If they have capacity and are aware of what they are doing, and yet still chose to be so chauvinistic, then yest, it is wrong. But we are being presented with biased viewpoints in that post which lack back-story - which was the second point I made in my post. Some of those encounters read very much like experiences that workers have had with mental health patients; my grandmother has a great story about one of her charges deciding to masterbate at the cheese counter in a supermarket once. Yes, some are just men being lecherous - but to do something such as masterbate in public or be so grossly inappropriate sounds a little more like there is something potentially wrong with the person mentally, rather than just plain sexism.

 

As for my first point; it is not just men who act this way. Be very careful of ladies with mental problems, they can be just as sexual as the men. And even without the excuse of mental problems, it's not as if women do not flaunt themselves and their sexual desires.

 

However, not like me writing this matter; it is clear that, as ever, men are sexually-charged predators and, since I'm a man, I see nothing wrong with it.

[Ashes The Second]

The thing is, you seemed to be ignoring the fact that there were men listed in there PLENTY of times that weren't old by any sense. X) In fact, the majority of it is younger men in cars, yelling on streets, etc.

 

I really am not seeing why you seem to have such a problem with accepting the fact that those women getting harassed like that is flat-out wrong. =| Or did they deserve it somehow?

 

I'm sorry to hear that, Ashes. D=

It's fine, Zov. I have friends and family there to support me, but yeah.

 

ot; Kes, no one was implying what you are saying. I see your sarcasm, but honestly, most people who do things like that in public /do/ have a mental issue, and lecherous people do exist. The fact stands they can't necessarily be both. As yes, I have heard of women being just as lecherous. Both sexes can have mental issues. But it seems women have to flaunt it in more obvious ways. They can't really put a- Well, okay, point taken. I'm kinda confused over the argument anyway, so disregard this post or clarify? :>

 

@dragun; Feminism doesn't really have anything to do with sexism. While your views are appreciated, I'm sure, what does it have to do with sexism?

Edited May 23, 2012 by Ashes The Second

[Syaoransbear]

Ah yes, all men are creepy.

I'd love to know how the poster posting that link suggested this at all.

[Zovesta]

Kestra, jeez. Couldya stop pretending that you're the victim because you have a penis for a minute?

 

Yeah I kind of highly doubt that everyone there had a mental disorder. =U You seem to just plain be missing the point there. It's not just the people that are masturbating that are being disgusting. The people that shout vulgar things as they passed in a car are probably in their right minds. And that's pretty awful.

 

"Yes, some are just men being lecherous" Yes. Yes they are. And that's not right.

 

And stop preaching about how vulgar women can be, christ. >__> You act like it's only men I have a problem with. I know about plenty of vulgar women, hell, one of my aunts wrecks marriages for fun and I once had a creepy women try to look down my shirt. I don't approve of people hurting others, no matter the gender. I shared the link to show you all some of the experiences these women, and plenty of others, have had, and you act like it's a personal affront to your gender.

 

I can't say I exactly agree with you decision, kiff, but at least enough people got to see the original post so they actually know what I'm talking about. =U

[Ashes The Second]

Kestra, jeez. Couldya stop pretending that you're the victim because you have a penis for a minute?

 

Yeah I kind of highly doubt that everyone there had a mental disorder. =U You seem to just plain be missing the point there. It's not just the people that are masturbating that are being disgusting. The people that shout vulgar things as they passed in a car are probably in their right minds. And that's pretty awful.

 

"Yes, some are just men being lecherous" Yes. Yes they are. And that's not right.

 

And stop preaching about how vulgar women can be, christ. >__> You act like it's only men I have a problem with. I know about plenty of vulgar women, hell, one of my aunts wrecks marriages for fun and I once had a creepy women try to look down my shirt. I don't approve of people hurting others, no matter the gender. I shared the link to show you all some of the experiences these women, and plenty of others, have had, and you act like it's a personal affront to your gender.

 

I can't say I exactly agree with you decision, kiff, but at least enough people got to see the original post so they actually know what I'm talking about. =U

Ooohhh. I understand now. Thanks, zov.

 

And Kes, I agree. Just because you have a dick doesn't really mean you're the outright victim in this one. Sarcasm goes a long way to looking rude. ._.

 

And wrecking marriages? /FOR FUN/? That's... disgusting. She obviously doesn't value herself, or others.

[Zovesta]

Yeah, she goes out to bars and seduces men, and thinks it's hilarious when they are married and still "fall for it". I know for sure she's ruined at least two marriages that way, and in one family they even had a daughter. She's no doubt ruined many, many more like that.

[Syaoransbear]

Yeah, she goes out to bars and seduces men, and thinks it's hilarious when they are married and still "fall for it". I know for sure she's ruined at least two marriages that way, and in one family they even had a daughter. She's no doubt ruined many, many more like that.

Although wrecking marriages is despicable and she clearly has self esteem that is so low that she needs men to ruin their lives for her to make her feel better about herself, the husbands sound pretty scummy so the wives are probably better off. You can't be seduced if you don't want to be.

 

One time I was walking my dog and some guy yelled out his truck, "CAN I DIDDLE YOUR FANCY?". It was the weirdest cat call I had ever received. At least I think it was a cat call.....?

Edited May 23, 2012 by Syaoransbear

[Ashes The Second]

Although wrecking marriages is despicable and she clearly has self esteem that is so low that she needs men to ruin their lives for her to make her feel better about herself, the husbands sound pretty scummy so the wives are probably better off. You can't be seduced if you don't want to be.

 

One time I was walking my dog and some guy yelled out his truck, "CAN I DIDDLE YOUR FANCY?". It was the weirdest cat call I had ever received. At least I think it was a cat call.....?

I don't get that cat call. Once someone complemented my shirt and I totally thought they had an ulterior motive. I had no idea who they were, either. Creeps are everywhere, so be glad you aren't /always/ related to them. o.0 Sadly, Zov, that's just pathetic. And the wives may have already been cheating, although that doesn't negate anything.

[Rosedamai]

ot; I get a very, very strong sense when I am near people,

Okay. I really, really didn't want to share this, and it might sound like misandry, but please hear me out.

 

I'm deadly afraid of older, middle-aged men whom I don't know (and I have flashes of misgivings about people I do know as well, which is sad) because I was almost kidnapped as a younger kid. I was about 5 and was playing alone in a rather remote playground when this drunk came up to me, dragged my hair and tried to take me somewhere else, where he could have done god knows what. I fought back by biting and scratching, and I guess that surprised him because he let go, and I ran away somehow.

 

But to this day, I get chills if, say, I'm on the bus and some middle-aged guy sits next to me. I know that they're probably well-meaning people who's just going around on his daily activities, but I just get scared and suspicious and uncomfortable.

 

I'd like to say sorry for everyone towards whom I might exhibit this sort of behavior, but I just can't help myself.

[Zovesta]

oh my god that cat call. I don't think it would have even been physically possible for me to have been disturbed by that one...

 

While I partially agree with what you're saying, I really don't think that the men in those cases are really the one to blame. If someone is seducing someone else, that really is their responsibility. Furthermore, I don't have a problem with anyone trying to come on to anyone else as long as they know how to back off and actually know a small bit about who they're coming on to. At least if they're married or not.

 

But if the person they're coming on to lies and says that they're not married, or tries to avoid the subject or anything like that, I think they definitely deserve the blame, yeah. Though, this is really for a different topic, as this reflects my views on sex period and not sexism.

 

ylangylang, I am really so sorry to hear that. =( Thank god you got away. It's good to know that you acknowledge that your automatic reaction is wrong, though.

 

@Ashes: But sometimes people complimenting a shirt is just people complimenting a shirt...

Edited May 23, 2012 by Zovesta

[Ashes The Second]

Okay. I really, really didn't want to share this, and it might sound like misandry, but please hear me out.

 

I'm deadly afraid of older, middle-aged men whom I don't know (and I have flashes of misgivings about people I do know as well, which is sad) because I was almost kidnapped as a younger kid. I was about 5 and was playing alone in a rather remote playground when this drunk came up to me, dragged my hair and tried to take me somewhere else, where he could have done god knows what. I fought back by biting and scratching, and I guess that surprised him because he let go, and I ran away somehow.

 

But to this day, I get chills if, say, I'm on the bus and some middle-aged guy sits next to me. I know that they're probably well-meaning people who's just going around on his daily activities, but I just get scared and suspicious and uncomfortable.

 

I'd like to say sorry for everyone towards whom I might exhibit this sort of behavior, but I just can't help myself.

That's awful! I'm so sorry to hear that. I get that sense, too. And y ex's dad gives off a really weird, strong vibe. It makes me incredibly nervous. ._. Good thing I'll never see him again. I would have jumped up if a middle aged guy that smelled like cigarettes sat next to me. I just can't stand people like that, y'know? I'm sorry to anyone I may have offended with my jumping up, but I don't ride buses that often.

 

@Zov: I know, lol. . But my mom got creeped out and in turn, I did too. I guess it's the whole 'you follow by their example' kind of thing. But my reactions to things like that are wrong. I just need to develop a sense of trust.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Ashes The Second

[Zovesta]

Not riding buses that often isn't really an excuse. I definitely believe in a "little red flag", as my mom narrowly avoided being raped and killed herself and saved my aunt (a good one, not the marriage-trashing one) from her abusive boyfriend without any warning whatsoever, with pretty much five seconds to spare. But I dunno, it just seems wrong, in a sense.

 

If you're alone and you feel that something's wrong, you should probably GTFO. But if you're in a fairly public place and it's just a middle aged guy that smells like cigarettes...? Chances are it's fairly safe and he just wants to get home or something.

 

Edit: Ah, yeah, it's definitely worse when someone else reacts like that as well.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Zovesta

[Rosedamai]

Thanks Zovesta and Ashes the second.

 

I would have jumped up if a middle aged guy that smelled like cigarettes sat next to me. I just can't stand people like that, y'know?

 

Yeah, I know. Something about the smell of alcohol and cigarettes sets up alarm bells in my head too. It's like my body's going like..."Oh, another middle-aged men...gah..suspiciou-MY GOD WHAT'S THAT SMELL! AHHHHH! RUN AWAY!"

 

If you're alone and you feel that something's wrong, you should probably GTFO. But if you're in a fairly public place and it's just a middle aged guy that smells like cigarettes...? Chances are it's fairly safe and he just wants to get home or something.

 

Well, where I live everyone takes public transportation because our country's tiny and can't afford that many roads, and it does get pretty crowded, and there is a lot of sexual harassment cases (there's an abundance of personal anecdotes, believe you me) and so it's sometimes nicer to avoid people, especially if they smell drunk.

 

Example: Typical day during the mornings and evenings, when there's tons of people seeking to commute via subway/bus to their jobs

 

Edited May 23, 2012 by ylangylang

[Ashes The Second]

Not riding buses that often isn't really an excuse. I definitely believe in a "little red flag", as my mom narrowly avoided being raped and killed herself and saved my aunt (a good one, not the marriage-trashing one) from her abusive boyfriend without any warning whatsoever, with pretty much five seconds to spare. But I dunno, it just seems wrong, in a sense.

 

If you're alone and you feel that something's wrong, you should probably GTFO. But if you're in a fairly public place and it's just a middle aged guy that smells like cigarettes...? Chances are it's fairly safe and he just wants to get home or something.

 

Edit: Ah, yeah, it's definitely worse when someone else reacts like that as well.

Yeah. I just meant that I don't ride buses that often, so it's not like I have to worry a ton. I just panic sometimes. I also have a really strong instinct ot run when someone is behind me, especially during lunchtime. I have no idea why, but fight or flight mode kicks in completly and I can't think straight. I just have to get away. My school is full of.. well, horrible people who will do horrible things to get what they want. But I can see where your coming from. my sense of right and wrong got put into serious question a lot over like, eight years of my life, so I'm used to stuff like that. Wish I could just relax half the day sometimes. I always freeze up somewhere around seven my time and have to sit in bed for about two hours before i feel safe. ._.

 

I really have some issues, don't I? LOL.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Ashes The Second

[Zovesta]

Ylangylang, from what I've gathered, public transportation is pretty notorious over there. Though, there is a difference between someone that smokes and someone that drinks. =T

 

I get where you guys are coming from as well, and I'm certainly not immune to things like that, but trying to relax and just take a breather isn't always a bad idea. Though it really can be hard to judge... Ashes, why don't you just hire a big burly musclewoman to guard you and make you feel secure? Seriously, though, staying safe really should be a priority. Just don't be a complete ass unless you are really getting that feeling "I'm going to die/be hurt in some way/molested/etc" and you have reason to suspect as much.

 

Edit: It's ok I do too OTL

Edited May 23, 2012 by Zovesta

[Rosedamai]

Ylangylang, from what I've gathered, public transportation is pretty notorious over there. Though, there is a difference between someone that smokes and someone that drinks. =T

Of course. I don't jump at people, I just get nervous and uncomfortable, which sometimes make others get uncomfortable too, and that really hurts me, because I'm letting my past fear take over me and affect other people around me as well. I try not to let it show though, but I guess it's too hard for me, at least for now.

[Zovesta]

I really can't judge you too harshly there. Sometimes we really do respond to things in an inappropriate manner, whether we like it or not. As long as no one's really getting hurt, I don't really care.

 

Also, if some guy had some sort of fear of fifteen year old girls and jumped out of their seat the second I sat down, I'd be a little confused, but I'd probably just let it go. All kinds of people in the world and all that. So, yeah, that's one thing I really don't feel that strongly against.

[Obscure_Trash]

@dragun; Feminism doesn't really have anything to do with sexism. While your views are appreciated, I'm sure, what does it have to do with sexism?

 

Feminism is the advocacy for gender equality. It has everything to do with sexism.

[Ashes The Second]

Ylangylang, from what I've gathered, public transportation is pretty notorious over there. Though, there is a difference between someone that smokes and someone that drinks. =T

 

I get where you guys are coming from as well, and I'm certainly not immune to things like that, but trying to relax and just take a breather isn't always a bad idea. Though it really can be hard to judge... Ashes, why don't you just hire a big burly musclewoman to guard you and make you feel secure? Seriously, though, staying safe really should be a priority. Just don't be a complete ass unless you are really getting that feeling "I'm going to die/be hurt in some way/molested/etc" and you have reason to suspect as much.

 

Edit: It's ok I do too OTL

Yeah. My paranoia is a strange thing, though. I'm coping for now, though.

 

/therapistwhee!

[Syaoransbear]

oh my god that cat call. I don't think it would have even been physically possible for me to have been disturbed by that one...

Me too, after the guy was out of sight I started laughing about it.

 

Once when I was 10 years old with a group of friends a bunch of guys in a car yelled "HOW MUCH?" at us. It was really creepy given our age. Although I mistakenly thought he yelled "HOT LUNCH" at us so I wasn't very bothered