Posted March 26, 2011 Hey I have an idea. Why not do a summonig for ascension? No? This is how it should work. We get 3 new dragons that are limited per one on scroll or 2, but you have to have at least 1or2 of each (like the trios).And then they can do summonings for an elexir/or do a ritual (a BSA).We can say once a month or every two weeks (cause there are so many dragons that I would love to see the ascending form) It has about 30:70 successrate of working (depending on how many ascending forms for how many sprites we get, I assume that at the begining there will be just a couple of dragons able to ascend because there are so many sprites and even the gender, therefore there should be many ascending forms to sprite- a load of work-so patience). Yes, making the ascended dragons is a lot of work...so why make that harder by spriting dragons whose sole purpose is to summon a potion to make you other dragons ascend. I don't understand this at all. But the dragons that use those elexir would have to have to be at least 6 months old. And if Tj thinks that even than there should be a limitation on the number of dragons able to ascend cause it would be more fun, he can make it so the elexir would have a 50:50 chance of working and if you fail once you should not be able to use that ascension elexir ever again on the SAME dragon. So we have to wait six months to ascend and have these special dragons for a chance to summon a potion that might not even work? You see the posibilities are basically limitless and that would make it really fun. That doesn't sound like fun to me. What it sounds like is a lot of work for something that shouldn't be that complicated. Ps. I came up with it cause I did not like the idea od catching elexirs in the cave. People with slow conctions have enough problems as it is already, cause I have not been able to catch a gold,silver or trio in the cave even in the AP. I only managed to get one during a valentine release and the rest was gifted and traded (also fun) As mentioned before, you won't be getting them from the cave. Overall, sorry, but no Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 I think it all depends on whether we want ascended dragons to be rare or commonplace. TRUE DAT. I think this is what all of the disputes we currently are having boil down to. Should Ascendeds be a fairly rare, special thing only for players who stick around a while, or should they be more common and easy to get? Should players be able to have lots of Ascendeds on their scrolls, or only a dozen or even less? I personally lean towards the former on both of these items, and I think, having read this whole thing, that many people are with me here, but there are a number who are not. I think six months is a good compromise between both sides on the first question. As for the second, that has to do with how common potions are and success rates. My personal opinion is that potions should be about as easy to find as Leetle Trees were on December 31, 2010, and that the success rate should be somewhere from 65-95% with a cooldown of a week if it fails. I bet there are a bunch of people who think that potions should be easier to find and I could probably be swayed easily. I just feel like an ascended dragon on a less-than-six-months-old player's scroll should be a pretty rare thing. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Whatever the debate about cooldown, length of time before it's possible, etc, from what I've seen there are very very few people who want this to be another Summon. Summon isn't fun, it's just frustrating. There are multiple threads about that, about how people have given up even trying because it's just not fun anymore, the success-rate is that low. I think we can *all* agree (well, except for Mirume) that we don't want Ascend to get to that point. I personally shy away from debating the potions specifics, because I don't like the potions part in the first place. But SlowHornpipe's suggestion sounds fair; Leetle Trees were rather easy to get then, and potions should be, too. I don't think it should be like every single refresh there are potions you can grab, but it shouldn't be *too* rare. Edited March 27, 2011 by Marie19R Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 Hey I have an idea. -snip- No. Just no. That would take a fun idea to get something new and turn it into a nightmare. D: Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 My 2 cents How Ascension should be in my opinion: Waiting time to get the "Ascend" option: 6 months. Success: 85% (and maybe a +5% per month extra? meaning a 9 months old Dragon has a 100% of success) Cooldown: 1-2 weeks, no more than that. (extra) Limit: 10 successful ascensions per week or two(?) similar to the Freeze action. Opinions? Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 My 2 cents How Ascension should be in my opinion: Waiting time to get the "Ascend" option: 6 months. Success: 85% (and maybe a +5% per month extra? meaning a 9 months old Dragon has a 100% of success) Cooldown: 1-2 weeks, no more than that. (extra) Limit: 10 successful ascensions per week or two(?) similar to the Freeze action. Opinions? Yes, without the 100% at 9 months The rate should rise more slowly than that, IMHO. (I voted for 9 moths as the START of qualifying ! I would have gone for a year, but I was taking note of the views in this thread !) Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 My 2 cents How Ascension should be in my opinion: Waiting time to get the "Ascend" option: 6 months. Success: 85% (and maybe a +5% per month extra? meaning a 9 months old Dragon has a 100% of success) Cooldown: 1-2 weeks, no more than that. (extra) Limit: 10 successful ascensions per week or two(?) similar to the Freeze action. Opinions? Yes, but I don't see the need for a rise in the percentages if it's already at 85% to begin with. I mean, statistically 85% with no rise already means: 85% of dragons will ascend with the 1st try. 97,75% will ascend within 2 tries 99,66% will ascend within 3 tries 99,94% will ascend within 4 tries 99,99% will ascend within 5 tries You would have to be extremely crazy unlucky to have a dragon not ascend within 5 tries... I think people hear failure and automatically think of Summon, and I agree it should never be as hard as that, but this is nowhere near that. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 My 2 cents How Ascension should be in my opinion: Waiting time to get the "Ascend" option: 6 months. Success: 85% (and maybe a +5% per month extra? meaning a 9 months old Dragon has a 100% of success) Cooldown: 1-2 weeks, no more than that. (extra) Limit: 10 successful ascensions per week or two(?) similar to the Freeze action. Opinions? I still dont like a fail rate. If it was a shorter time, then it be okay. But if we must go with it, then a 1 week cooldown is good. With that, there also shouldnt be an increase, cause thats pointless. Also, "failed" ascenscions should not count as a limit. The only other problem I see is those who have over 9000 dragons. I dont see a solution that wouldn't be extremely unfair in either direction or super complicated. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 I still dont like a fail rate. If it was a shorter time, then it be okay. But if we must go with it, then a 1 week cooldown is good. With that, there also shouldnt be an increase, cause thats pointless. Also, "failed" ascenscions should not count as a limit. The only other problem I see is those who have over 9000 dragons. I dont see a solution that wouldn't be extremely unfair in either direction or super complicated. You don't have to like everything. I WANT a fail rate. To each their own. Why is it unfair if some people have 9000 dragons (who does, BTW ?) and why do we need a solution for them ? And why shouldn't failed accessions count ? Failed everything elses do - failed breeds, failed summons, failed genderings... It should not be too easy. It is a rite of passage, not just a badge you get after x months. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 And why shouldn't failed accessions count ? Failed everything elses do - failed breeds, failed summons, failed genderings... Is there still a fail rate for abandoning and killing, too? Also, you can't really fail to gender. That's just something the hatchling does, rather than something you try to do and fail. Unless you're talking about Influence failing... Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Is there still a fail rate for abandoning and killing, too? Also, you can't really fail to gender. That's just something the hatchling does, rather than something you try to do and fail. Unless you're talking about Influence failing... I did mean influence, yes. You still lose the BSA for however long it is, even if it didn't take (and you have to wait ages to find it if it did take, too !) I think there is still fail for abandoning and killing actually - there have been worried people talking about hatchies following them back to the cave, and certainly hatchies and adults can refuse to die (dodging the knife, I think it says...). I don't know if you can fail to kill an egg. I don't kill a lot, except by biting. Edited March 27, 2011 by fuzzbucket Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 I'm not sure I really understand what this does... Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 I think there is still fail for abandoning and killing actually - there have been worried people talking about hatchies following them back to the cave, and certainly hatchies and adults can refuse to die (dodging the knife, I think it says...). I don't know if you can fail to kill an egg. I don't kill a lot, except by biting. That's true, you can fail to abandon or kill--but you can try again the next day. And, if you do fail to kill, it doesn't take away one of your kill-slots, so if we were to implement something like the limit for freezing for ascending, would a fail still have to take up one of those slots, or could it be treated like a kill--fail doesn't take up a slot? Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) I did mean influence, yes. You still lose the BSA for however long it is, even if it didn't take (and you have to wait ages to find it if it did take, too !) I think there is still fail for abandoning and killing actually - there have been worried people talking about hatchies following them back to the cave, and certainly hatchies and adults can refuse to die (dodging the knife, I think it says...). I don't know if you can fail to kill an egg. I don't kill a lot, except by biting. If you fail to kill an egg, it hatches early - either the hatchling stays or is so shocked that it runs off to the AP. I am one of the people who thinks ascendent dragons shouldn't be a a rare sight, but should take a while to aquire. I would have liked to see a wait until the dragon is 1 year old and a 100% sucess rate afterwards. As I see so many people wnat lower times, probably 6 months waiting time and a slight fail chance work for me as well (am also in favour of the additional potion option for people who do not like to wait - but I guess we'll discuss that if and when the search function comes around) EDIT: if we need a limit, I do not think the failed attempts should count against this limit Edited March 27, 2011 by Shanthaia Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 I really think Ascension should be kept simple, guys. I could type up a whole post for reasons, but I know from experience that simple = better when it comes to DC. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 And, if you do fail to kill, it doesn't take away one of your kill-slots, so if we were to implement something like the limit for freezing for ascending, would a fail still have to take up one of those slots, or could it be treated like a kill--fail doesn't take up a slot? I think the general consensus was that a limit like this would be a limit on successful Ascendeds. A failed Ascension would not count to the limit. I agree with Kila and I think if we have a fail rate, it should be a flat percentage. 85% seems fair. I like Shanthaia's idea too. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 Sorry Xoco, but in that way you are forcing people to breed to get something ascended. If I don't like to breed, for whatever reason, I won't be able to ascend my dragons. That's not fair. I have to agree with PinkyHedgehog. It's also giving the message that inbreeding is bad, when, in the game, it's not. I can also see people spam breeding just for this and more people here creating topics for AP backlog as a result. I'd also rather have a choice to ascend and not have it be an auto thing that just happens. I may want to have a lineage from a certain pair, but not want to ascend them. By your method, they would auto-ascend on their own just because I wanted to do a lineage with them. No....just no, it has absolutely nothing to do with ascendence, and makes no sense in context for one. Secondly it forces people to play a certain way to complete their scrolls, which is generally frowned upon. In any case, it has nothing to do with what I do, it's what the recipients of my dragon's offspring do, unless you want to raise 100 gens of dragons on your scroll to get 1 ascended. Even then it would take 100 weeks minimum which is almost two years. Too many problems, no. I made a polite suggestion and y'all just dogpiled on me. You'd think I'd suggested all-out revolt against the spriters and accused TJ's mother of wearing army boots… With due respect, addressing the points made, if only for the sake of discussion: The word "forced" was brought up twice, by PinkyHedgehog and Sceptile100 — a rather melodramatic choice of words, don't you think? Searching for a potion is forcing users to play the game a certain way, too — just like collecting Trio sprites to get the Summon action is. If you don't get the Thunders, Magmas and Ice dragons, you don't get to Summon a Guardian of Life, ha! You're also "forcing" players to kill dragons in the pursuit of getting Neglecteds, Vampires and Zombies, just to collect those sprites. What if they can't bring themselves to kill a dragon? Then they are forced to rely on another player to kill a dragon for them and pass the egg/hatchie along to them. You're also limited in the number of Zombies you can have because they permanently occupy a Kill slot and those are limited. What if a player wants a Zombie dragon army? Sorry, kid, you're outta luck once you hit that last Kill slot. You can only have two Guardians of Life and they can't breed. You can only have two Holiday/Christmas dragons at any stage. In respect to PinkyHedgehog's fondness for Vampires: okay, I get it. You collect Vampires. Say, a Vampire gets to Ascend once its bloodline of Bites gets to a similar milestone as a dragon that's bred. There goes the Breeding requirement. So how is "forcing" players to breed their dragons and pass along eggs to their friends any different than these coercive/constrictive game functions? "Spam-breeding." Good point, Sock As is your point that inbreeding isn't penalized in this game. I'm in the "don't like inbreeding" camp of players, so that was my personality coming through. No mea culpas for that. "Auto-ascend" "Two years minimum." Note that I said "say, 100 generations." That was an arbitrary suggestion. If the interval is too long, make it shorter: 25, 30 generations. That's about 6-8 months if the player is keen to get an Ascended, a year if they're pursuing it casually. I spent 18 months getting a 5th gen Tempest with a Hindu Marut naming convention. I voted for a 1-year minimum before a dragon can Ascend; I don't think a year is too long to wait. If you don't like the auto-ascend provision, toggle it! Make it like Summon, it's an Action that appears once a dragon's descendants reach a certain generational milestone. Et le voilà! You've brought the choice factor back. "It has absolutely nothing to do with ascendence (sic) and makes no sense in context for one." Think of the Ascended dragon as the progenitor of a dragon clan, and as such becomes an estimable character in dragon society. Ancestor worship can lead to apotheosis of progenitors in the real world; as I understand it, Ascending has deification connotations; the dragon takes on greater supernatural power and becomes rather akin to a dragon demigod, at least in the eyes of its cohorts and human keepers. Certainly, its powers are beyond the pale of "normal," un-Ascended dragons. Right? Otherwise, as has been pointed out already in the thread, "it's just another pretty sprite to collect." Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 You don't have to like everything. I WANT a fail rate. To each their own. Why is it unfair if some people have 9000 dragons (who does, BTW ?) and why do we need a solution for them ? And why shouldn't failed accessions count ? Failed everything elses do - failed breeds, failed summons, failed genderings... It should not be too easy. It is a rite of passage, not just a badge you get after x months. Its unfair because trying to ascend 1k dragons would take a dedication. If you dont believe me, do the math. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 Results of last poll: How long should dragons have to be an adult before they can ascend? No time [ 1 ] [0.96%] Less than a month [ 2 ] [1.92%] 1 month [ 4 ] [3.85%] 2 months [ 4 ] [3.85%] 3 months [ 8 ] [7.69%] 4 months [ 6 ] [5.77%] 5 months [ 1 ] [0.96%] 6 months [ 43 ] [41.35%] 7 months [ 1 ] [0.96%] 8 months [ 3 ] [2.88%] 9 months [ 2 ] [1.92%] 10 months [ 1 ] [0.96%] 11 months [ 0 ] [0.00%] 1 year [ 25 ] [24.04%] More than a year [ 1 ] [0.96%] Other [ 2 ] [1.92%] Total Votes: 104 I think we can all agree that 6 months is the clear winner and a good compromise for everyone. |D New poll should be up shortly. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 Oh well, yes. But why would anyone want to ascend all of them ? And if they have that many - why should they be able to do all of them on 24 hours flat or something ? Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Oh well, yes. But why would anyone want to ascend all of them ? And if they have that many - why should they be able to do all of them on 24 hours flat or something ? I didnt say they should, we just might have a problem when dealing with someone who has 1k versus someone who has 100(example a low rate is good for less dragons, but painful for more. A high rate makes it too easy for lower numbers.) First post update. Tell me if i missed anything. Edited March 27, 2011 by Kirbyburn Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 @ Xoco, Your analogies are invalid, Ascension would be much, much bigger that summons or ND's, this applies to every dragon (excluding the ones listed). With dimorphism, thats 100+ sprites you can't have because you're not a big breeder. Even then the only way to ensure continued breeding is keeping all the offspring or finding people to take them for each generation. I personally collect only 4 of each species (that'll go up to 6 if ascension comes out), so in order to ensure the ascension of just one dragon, I'd either have to change my playstyle, or, hope I get lucky. Now, that's just for one dragon, I have 70+ over 6 months old (ant that's with my limited raising style). Getting all the dragons you want ascended would be hell, and overly complicated. Kila is right, simple is better, our way is simpler, more fair overall, and has support. My $0.02 Flat fail rate please Statistic's people (my math posts keep getting missed) Your chance do get better the more times you try, and that's with a flat rate. An increasing success rate just complicates things, Again to the people who want no fail rate, it has to be attempted, the dragon has to work at it, so logically the dragon has to sometimes fail, THINK about it. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 @ Xoco, Your analogies are invalid, Ascension would be much, much bigger that summons or ND's, this applies to every dragon (excluding the ones listed). With dimorphism, thats 100+ sprites you can't have because you're not a big breeder. Even then the only way to ensure continued breeding is keeping all the offspring or finding people to take them for each generation. I personally collect only 4 of each species (that'll go up to 6 if ascension comes out), so in order to ensure the ascension of just one dragon, I'd either have to change my playstyle, or, hope I get lucky. Now, that's just for one dragon, I have 70+ over 6 months old (ant that's with my limited raising style). Getting all the dragons you want ascended would be hell, and overly complicated. Kila is right, simple is better, our way is simpler, more fair overall, and has support. My $0.02 Flat fail rate please Statistic's people (my math posts keep getting missed) Your chance do get better the more times you try, and that's with a flat rate. An increasing success rate just complicates things, Again to the people who want no fail rate, it has to be attempted, the dragon has to work at it, so logically the dragon has to sometimes fail, THINK about it. I'm pretty sure she's mainly addressing that too many people are considering any change as "forced". She's just defending her point of view. BTW, rate does not increase. Its the logic that since the option is not 0% or 100% you will eventually get a fail. However, using that same subject, since it is not 100% , u can infinitely fail. Doesn't that sound fun? Share this post Link to post
Posted March 27, 2011 You do realie that the chance o that is less than winning the lottery right? Share this post Link to post
Posted March 28, 2011 You do realie that the chance o that is less than winning the lottery right? Just making a point. Going a little off-topic, is it okay that i added to the main post that ascended dragons breed regularly, with normal off-spring. Share this post Link to post
Recommended Posts