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Name Check Thread

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I posted this in Tiny Little Questions but it was suggested I cross-post here as well.

 

Quote

Will preface this by saying that I can't be more specific about the question without censor-evading, so if a mod wants clarification on what I mean they're free to PM me.

 

I recently got a very vulgar code from someone. I know that leaving naughty-coded dragons unnamed is fine, because obviously the user isn't obligated to name their dragons and they can't control the code. What I would like to know, though, is whether it's okay to breed two specific codes together to make a phrase that would probably get me banned the moment I say it.

 

I don't mean just combining two naughty codes; people do that all the time. I'm thinking more in terms of a vulgar verb code, plus a code that would otherwise be innocent, to make a pair that together forms a phrase that the wrong person would take as advocating for doing something illegal and very morally wrong. The same question also applies for leaving the bad code alone, and naming the mate to form such a phrase.

 

The reason I ask this is that I've not seen it done yet, most people are either too scared of breaking rules or too uncomfortable with the specifics to try, and breeding is a deliberate action on the user's part. Thanks.

 

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On 1/29/2019 at 11:46 AM, FlyingDragona said:

Would the name "No Fekzz Given" be alright, considering that's part of this dragon's code? Or would that be pushing it?

I think so!

On 1/29/2019 at 10:55 PM, Aqub said:

Seems okay to me. I like the play on words XD

14 hours ago, Keileon said:

I posted this in Tiny Little Questions but it was suggested I cross-post here as well.

 

 

I think you'll be fine as codes are randomly generated and breeding is not intentionally a harmful act, but what are the codes?

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See the reference to **** :lol: 

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Yeah unfortunately not only is the code vulgar, but if I link it I'll likely get complained at for posting a "trigger" word.

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As far as I'm aware, there's nothing wrong with breeding two naughty codes together as long as the dragons aren't named anything vulgar. The codes on the site are randomly generated, naughty ones happen, and yea you can breed two together. That could happen by accident even if a user didn't notice (though it's unlikely). I can't imagine taking action over codes randomly generated by the site, but I can't speak for everyone/TJ.

 

I suppose it would depend on what it is, so yes by all means PM a mod if you're still unsure!

 

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Hey, I've got a semi-burning question here. (I think I'm the only person wondering xD)

 

Slurs are not allowed in names, obviously, because they are inherently inappropriate/vulgar/intended to offend, and oftentimes are historically linked to various atrocities. But are the names of hate groups regarded the same? To see if I could answer my own question, I searched dragon names and saw that two notorious hate groups, in particular, are not taken, despite their "fame". This implies that hate groups are outlawed.

 

Interestingly, there appears to be a blindspot or loophole that I'm not quite understanding, since "nazi" is seen to be somewhat widely used in dragon names. Five seconds on Google would explain it better than me: "Approximately six million Jews were murdered methodically and with horrifying cruelty. During the Holocaust in occupied Poland, more than one million Jews were murdered in gas chambers of the Auschwitz concentration camp alone."

 

What is the loophole here?

To be clear, I am not calling for any kind of action or trying to raise an issue. I'm genuinely curious what sets "nazi" apart from other extremists. I've always gotta know How does X or Y work? Is it because "nazis" are considered to be "a thing of the past"? Do I become obsessively curious about seemingly random/pointless topics? (YES)

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5 minutes ago, MortLente said:

Hey, I've got a semi-burning question here. (I think I'm the only person wondering xD)

 

Slurs are not allowed in names, obviously, because they are inherently inappropriate/vulgar/intended to offend, and oftentimes are historically linked to various atrocities. But are the names of hate groups regarded the same? To see if I could answer my own question, I searched dragon names and saw that two notorious hate groups, in particular, are not taken, despite their "fame". This implies that hate groups are outlawed.

 

Interestingly, there appears to be a blindspot or loophole that I'm not quite understanding, since "nazi" is seen to be somewhat widely used in dragon names. Five seconds on Google would explain it better than me: "Approximately six million Jews were murdered methodically and with horrifying cruelty. During the Holocaust in occupied Poland, more than one million Jews were murdered in gas chambers of the Auschwitz concentration camp alone."

 

What is the loophole here?

To be clear, I am not calling for any kind of action or trying to raise an issue. I'm genuinely curious what sets "nazi" apart from other extremists. I've always gotta know How does X or Y work? Is it because "nazis" are considered to be "a thing of the past"? Do I become obsessively curious about seemingly random/pointless topics? (YES)

Honestly, I don't think those names should be allowed. They are offensive to many people and indicate clear hatred towards a group of people, which I'm pretty sure breaks the rules for naming. Last time I checked, DC does not support discrimination. Unfortunately, sometimes people get away with names if they are not seen by enough people to be reported. Examples: XX, and X. If you see any, I recommend just reporting them and not using similar titles for your own dragons. Good question!

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Yikes yea those examples are not appropriate and if you see things like that, please bring them to the attention of a mod. We can't do anything if we aren't aware. 

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29 minutes ago, secretsnail9 said:

Can I name my dragons really spammy things, like 32 E's? or Yo with 31 o's?

 

Sure. As long as it's not like... an offensive word elongated or something.

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Posted (edited)

On 3/17/2019 at 4:52 PM, The Dragoness said:

Honestly, I don't think those names should be allowed. They are offensive to many people and indicate clear hatred towards a group of people, which I'm pretty sure breaks the rules for naming. Last time I checked, DC does not support discrimination. Unfortunately, sometimes people get away with names if they are not seen by enough people to be reported. Examples: XX, and X. If you see any, I recommend just reporting them and not using similar titles for your own dragons. Good question!

 

How is ***** bad? I still hear people refer to cats as ***** cats. "Here ***** ***** *****..."

 

I've had the name Dick for eight years-- it's a real name and also slang for a detective. Should I get in trouble because it can also be used as slang for genitalia? Apparently in eight years I haven't offended anybody with that name, though I do remember having to stalk and ask certain mods because they might personally find it offensive. Which they didn't. It doesn't look like "*****" has offended anybody in seven years, but does it now suddenly become offensive because our own minds construe that it must have been intended that way?

 

Kill yourself isn't awful either. Why should we reason that it's telling us as readers to kill ourselves? Look at the offspring and lineage of that dragon, it looks to be in reference to a TV show. They have a huge Dorsal lineage quoting Dr Who (if I had to guess) and "kill yourself" is just a part of that quote chain. Looking closely can show that no offense or harm was intended by that name. Context.

 

KKK is a little bit harder to defend as innocuous. I personally don't see that name as condoning hate or even implying it, and like "Nazi" I think certain names just make people feel squeamish when they see them. However, those words also do not have the common, benign meanings like *****, Dick, Bloody, Queer, Tit, etc.

 

On the other hand, does this mean every possible name linked to a terrorist organization, hate group, or certain political parties are now off limits? Taliban, IRA, Khmer Rouge, TNI, IMU, DPRK, Stalinism... is the mere mentioning of certain words classified as supporting discrimination or hatred, or is it the context that it is used? What makes Nazi more offensive than Taliban, what makes Taliban more offensive than Khmer Rouge? Something like "Support the __" or "Kill all __" are statements of discrimination/hate and undeniably inappropriate, but standalone names don't necessarily strike me as following that same thought process.

 

While I wouldn't use the name KKK or Nazi myself, and it certainly isn't in the realm of innocent things like *****, I think disallowing that name can be a slippery slope and might be worth more consideration outside of normal knee-jerk reactions. Yes nobody likes the KKK; I don't like serial killers and I wouldn't report the dragon Ted Bundy even though it makes me uncomfortable, since the person doesn't appear to be condoning murder.

 

I also think context should be heavily considered when deciding whether a name is offensive or not. Of the names listed ***** and Kill Yourself are especially inoffensive and I think it would be horrible for those people to lose their names, naming privileges, or even their entire scroll because many years later subjective opinions decided they were now bad. On the first dozen pages of this thread you can see mods repeatedly giving the OK to names and describing that context is very important when it comes to these things. Should people be scared that, years later, different mods/people may suddenly find their mod-accepted names now actionable? That people will run through a list of "slang" words like a bizarre witch hunt and report everything regardless of context, even if it was mod-approved years before? I tend to play things overly safe for this very reason (passed up a lot of good names for it, grumble), but I can't expect everyone to stalk this thread and see if certain words are now on the naughty list. If a name is not automatically denied by the site's own naming feature I think it's worth objective consideration.

 

Ha ha, I guess the forum doesn't like a certain cat-related word. Shame, *****foot is a great verb.

Edited by Nine

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Posted (edited)

I did look more onto the scrolls those names were from, and did find that the dorsal dragon was in a group of dragons that were quotes from a TV show. I put it to the other mods and I wouldn't personally do anything about it. It's a quote from a TV show. I did also notice that the scroll containing the name KKK named a lot of dragons in random strings of letters - HHH for example. KKH. Etc. Not sure if there's any meaning there.

 

You will notice however that the other word for cat is censored on the forum. Unfortunately a very common meaning is a sexual term and... we have to consider kids use this site. They aren't going to have the same nuanced understanding as an adult would. Same for the other names - we can debate all day long if it's offensive or not, but... would you want your thirteen year old running around saying it?

 

Now if that word was being used in the context of a cat? Like 'cat' was included in the name? That might be more acceptable but just the word alone I'd personally give a solid no. I also wouldn't allow the names of really any hate groups.

 

BUT Keep in mind also these decisions are not up to one moderator. Bad names have to be reviewed by multiple. Plus looking at the scroll for context, etc... there's always a sort of objective process, no worries.

Edited by Kaini

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Agreed with everything Nine just said; they put it more eloquently than I ever could.

 

I remember years ago there was a non-native English speaker who got their scroll burned because they named a chicken "I like ****s", with the censored word being another for rooster. They were unaware of its other connotation in English. While not the same exact thing as naming something "kill yourself" or "Nazi" or "KKK", it's the same general principle: context.

 

I've seen dragons with "sex" in the name and when asking a mod, was told it was okay. I've used "murder" in my dragon names, and was told it was okay. I remember the rule generally being "if it's not censor evasion or a personal attack, it's okay" years ago and veteran players operating under that rule suddenly getting punished for something that was okay back in 2012 seems rather unfair.

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16 hours ago, Nine said:

 

How is ***** bad? I still hear people refer to cats as ***** cats. "Here ***** ***** *****..."

Modern usage of that word is indeed sexual in nature. Much like how b***h, at one time, merely meant a female dog, wolf, fox or otter. Should we allow b***h because of its years-old meaning? Or do we focus on the here-and-now, the language that is present in today's time?

 

I've had the name Dick for eight years-- it's a real name and also slang for a detective. Should I get in trouble because it can also be used as slang for genitalia? Apparently in eight years I haven't offended anybody with that name, though I do remember having to stalk and ask certain mods because they might personally find it offensive. Which they didn't. It doesn't look like "*****" has offended anybody in seven years, but does it now suddenly become offensive because our own minds construe that it must have been intended that way?
 

Sorry, what? Mods should not be judging anything from a personal stance. It is a far more objective matter than that.

Moving on - go and Google d*** right now. You have to dig to find results matching "slang for detective" or "nickname for Richard", or even "given name".
The modern usage is, and has been for a while, inappropriate - whether in an insulting manner ("That d***!") or a sexual one. D*** was slang for detective in the early 20th century. Nowadays, nobody's mind goes to "Richard". Unfortunate, but true.

 

On the other hand, does this mean every possible name linked to a terrorist organization, hate group, or certain political parties are now off limits?

"Off-limits"? We're not talking off-limits, we're talking inappropriate. You're jumping straight to the idea of consequence & punishment.

Also, the answer is no. "Every possible name", in any context, is impossible. There are many names that just about manage to limbo underneath the bar, whether intentional or not.


Taliban, IRA, Khmer Rouge, TNI, IMU, DPRK, Stalinism... is the mere mentioning of certain words classified as supporting discrimination or hatred, or is it the context that it is used? What makes Nazi more offensive than Taliban, what makes Taliban more offensive than Khmer Rouge? Something like "Support the __" or "Kill all __" are statements of discrimination/hate and undeniably inappropriate, but standalone names don't necessarily strike me as following that same thought process.

Then what is the thought process?

Anyway. This is not the Offense Olympics. Some things just manage to be permissible on the grounds of being lesser-known, or less-specific, or less charged than others. "Tard" the Shallow Water is alive and well. "R*tard", however, does not exist. "Niga" the Dorsal is just fine, but "ni**a" does not exist. Are these names meant to resemble anything derogatory? Personally I doubt it, but I suppose nobody can say for certain. That is true context at work. "KKK" the Spring Seasonal is permissible for the same reasons.

 

While I wouldn't use the name KKK or Nazi myself, and it certainly isn't in the realm of innocent things like *****, I think disallowing that name can be a slippery slope and might be worth more consideration outside of normal knee-jerk reactions. Yes nobody likes the KKK; I don't like serial killers and I wouldn't report the dragon Ted Bundy even though it makes me uncomfortable, since the person doesn't appear to be condoning murder.

Difference being that Ted Bundy, as an individual, is not linked to an ideology (one that still exists, grooms, and recruits to this day). It's comparing an anthill to a mountain. Also, you may have noticed that the names of Nazi German officials and the like are not being contested. Adolf Hitler is an 18g Black Dragon. And I for one do not care one whit.

In the end, it begs the question, "How in-love are you with these words and the beliefs that they intrinsically symbolize, that you would push to defend their usage? And why?"


Maybe it's just me but I see no good reason for these to be used in a light-hearted fashion, on what is, at its core, a dragon game with a PG-13 rating.

I also find it incredibly backwards that all derogatory and pejorative terms are outright forbidden, while the people that invented the aforementioned terms - the people that actively seek to kill, drive out, or enslave those who the terms apply to - are not regarded in the same light.

When asked, "Is the N-word okay?", the resounding answer is "Of course not!!"

It only follows that the answer is the same for the question, "Is Ku Klux Klan okay?" Don't need to pause for that one - "Of course not!!"

"But consider the context!" is an endless rabbit hole. Black people have allowances to use the N-word as a reclaimed slur. Would that mean that the N-word is now widely accepted on DC? How do you know which players are Black and which are not? That argument falls apart fast. Context does not save the day.

I hope I have spoken clearly, and I look forward to any further points you or others may raise. That said, it is not my intent to spam this thread with any form of back-and-forth; nor is it my intent to come off as antagonistic.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Keileon said:

I remember years ago there was a non-native English speaker who got their scroll burned because they named a chicken "I like ****s", with the censored word being another for rooster. They were unaware of its other connotation in English. While not the same exact thing as naming something "kill yourself" or "Nazi" or "KKK", it's the same general principle: context.

DC puts an emphasis on American English. While it is unfortunate for that person, it was justified. Naming is a deliberate action, and that appeared to be deliberate rule-breaking.

 

17 hours ago, Keileon said:

I've seen dragons with "sex" in the name and when asking a mod, was told it was okay.

I find that questionable, as it is inherently not a PG-13 subject. Can we get mod input on this, please?

I've used "murder" in my dragon names, and was told it was okay.

Murder... oh, that thing players do to unwanted eggs and zombie fodder. Of course "murder" is okay. "Murder White/Black/Jew People", however, obviously not.

I remember the rule generally being "if it's not censor evasion or a personal attack, it's okay" years ago and veteran players operating under that rule suddenly getting punished for something that was okay back in 2012 seems rather unfair.

Veteran players should be operating under the current rules. ToS receive updates for a reason.

 

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Nine, thank you! Well stated and I agree.

I too noticed the large swing from what was once deemed fine went the other way and wasn't and then back, like a pendulum. The system seems to depend on how conservative, or not, the mod is who reviews the name in question, instead of a general, across the board consensus that's black and white and unmistakable.

Some reasons felt knee-jerk and loaded with personal bias, while others seem carefully looked at/context. It's rather confusing and leaves way too much open to personal feels. Unfair because what YOU find offensive may not even ping MY radar.

 

(Personally, I wouldn't have thought twice of the P-named dragon up there because it's a big fuzzy dragon, like a big fuzzy kitty, but whatevs.)

 

 

 

MortLente, 

Over the last few years, I've noticed the B-word, A-word and others have crept into actual broadcast tv on PG-13 shows, doesn't that then mean they should be allowed here if we're to roll with the times?

I have a IRL Great-Uncle Dick and and Uncle Dick and I promise it doesn't mean the other thing. (And it IS still used to refer to detectives, I read a lot of female detective books and they often refer to themselves as that.)

 

Should I be penalized in my Dragon naming  because someone else's mind 'went there'? I believe that says way more about where their mind is than mine.

 

Stolen quotes cause I can't do the quote thing correctly:

***I remember the rule generally being "if it's not censor evasion or a personal attack, it's okay" years ago and veteran players operating under that rule suddenly getting punished for something that was okay back in 2012 seems rather unfair.

***Veteran players should be operating under the current rules. ToS receive updates for a reason

 

I've just re-read the TOS and other areas and I'm blind 'cause I didn't see a single thing about naming restrictions.

 

My personal view is if I'm AP hunting and I grab an egg where I don't like the parent names, I toss it back because I realize someone else WILL  like it. I don't need to turn it in to a mod or kill it. 

   I also don't agree with ppl scouring scrolls just to find names to turn in to mods. There's so much more to do on this game and I don't believe you get points for that, so why?? (Yep, My Midol dragon WHO HAS NEVER BEEN BRED ended up in this thread. It was deemed ok at the time, but will the pendulum swing again and I'll get in trouble?? Who knows? and that's not right. If a name passed muster somewhere in this thread, then it should stand. Slippery slope indeed.

 

It seems that things have become far more G than even PG, let alone PG-13, which is totally fine, but be 100% CONSISTENT!

 

 

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3 hours ago, Uther_Pendragon said:

(Personally, I wouldn't have thought twice of the P-named dragon up there because it's a big fuzzy dragon, like a big fuzzy kitty, but whatevs.)

"Personally"? You just complained about mods judging things on a personal level, yet you are doing it yourself, so I'm a tad confused?
 

MortLente, 

Over the last few years, I've noticed the B-word, A-word and others have crept into actual broadcast tv on PG-13 shows, doesn't that then mean they should be allowed here if we're to roll with the times?

Just gonna leave a little quote here:
"However, compared to the PG movies that came out when I was young and impressionable, PG movies now are church services. I watched “The Goonies” with my son (having not seen it in a couple of decades, at least). WHOA…I’d clearly forgotten how…fluid…the standards were in the early days of PG-13. When it was over, I asked him what he thought of it. “I liked it, daddy! What does ‘sh*t’ mean?”


Going by the standards of what was acceptable in PG-13 films in, say, the 80's... then the F-word and countless other vulgarities would be deemed "acceptable" by those standards. This is why I have stressed modern usage, modern times.


Yet, even when viewing this with a modern lens, common sense must be applied. "Profanity may be present in PG rated films, and use of one of the harsher "sexually-derived words" as an expletive will initially incur at least a PG-13 rating."

So there you have it, the MPAA allows F word. So, then I suppose this conversation is over, because arbitrary standards will give way to chaos. If you allow F-bomb, you must also allow other profanities that appeared in PG-13 media (of which there are countless).
 

I have a IRL Great-Uncle Dick and and Uncle Dick and I promise it doesn't mean the other thing. (And it IS still used to refer to detectives, I read a lot of female detective books and they often refer to themselves as that.)

😂 Of course the given name has no relation to the male member. What parent would hate their child that much?? 🤣 Moving on - please direct your eyes here, as I'd rather not make this post too long. Tons more explanations on Google, as well.
Also important: Great-Uncle and Uncle. Not son, grandson, colleague...

 

I've just re-read the TOS and other areas and I'm blind 'cause I didn't see a single thing about naming restrictions.


My apologies for not clarifying, as I did not mean literal DC ToS. I don't know the best way to put it, so forgive my clumsy phrasing - If you did not agree with a site's ToS, yet you continued to use it, that is a violation of the ToS. i.e., "If you do not agree to the Modified Terms you must stop using the Service." Do you see what I'm pointing out? Clinging to past methods or standards does not excuse current violations, especially if prior input was biased and flawed.

My personal view is if I'm AP hunting and I grab an egg where I don't like the parent names, I toss it back because I realize someone else WILL  like it. I don't need to turn it in to a mod or kill it. 

???
This isn't about personal taste.
I'm concerned at the implication that you would ignore a terribly vulgar name under the assumption that "someone" will like it.

 

I also don't agree with ppl scouring scrolls just to find names to turn in to mods. There's so much more to do on this game and I don't believe you get points for that, so why?? (Yep, My Midol dragon WHO HAS NEVER BEEN BRED ended up in this thread.

Agreed, I do not condone "scouring" scrolls just for the sake of scouring and reporting, that is ludicrous behavior. Witchhunts are never advisable.
Also, Midol is a medication for menstrual pains. Menstrual cycles are not sexual or offensive, they're a bodily function... Sorry to hear that somebody thinks that way (Was it a mod? I am assuming not?)


I wholeheartedly agree with consistency - heck, that's why I posted here in the first place.

Moving on...
Seeing as how I am not a mod, I feel it's only best to receive mod word on these points (sorry, guys
;_; I didn't foresee this reaction and now I'm contributing oooohnoooo)

 

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Lol, I CAN view it personally, exactly because I'm not a mod. If I had a mod hat, I'd definitely need to do what Kaini explained and have a few mods discuss to control any bias-or not-that may color things too much from my own personal perspective, which I admit may run to the idk naive? side for lack of a better word. (I learned more slang and such when my son was a young teen than I had ever learned or was exposed to at the same age.)

 

See, the thing I meant..when I searched, there's no one true guideline that spells out exactly which words aren't allowed for PG-13, and that there is inappropriate content allowed up to a limit before the ratings are changed. Which is why I believe so strongly it needs to be explicitly spelled out here, especially since there can be punishments involved. Should be no room for confusion. Not one year with one mod(s) a word is ok, the next it's not. Way too fluid. 

(Idk what's involved past that, do ppl get a chance to rename?)

 

 I was thinking more mild suggestive naming stuff or bad word code pairs, when I referred to my ap hunts, nothing blatantly gross or obvie vulgar/hate etc. <--I've not come across anything of the sort since I started collecting in I think 2011 and I do most collecting from AP.

   I was trying to explain-and did it terribly-that I've seen ppl get upset over and want something done to milder stuff, like my Midol dragon,which is what black n white guidelines could curb. (And no, the Mod was great, it had to be a scroll surfer since there's no offspring, so no easy way to find)

    I strongly believe we've got to avoid being reactive and going too far to the ultra conservative side, otherwise we'll be reduced to naming our dragons $$ or && until someone gets offended by that. Don't get me wrong, I believe the mods do a bang up job with checking context, like other names/schemes on scroll, and putting heads together for balanced consensus. I believe it just needs a bit of tweaking in the consistency area.

 

lol, just had to poke at you for Dick since you said no one thinks of Richard :D but I get where you were coming from. At the same time I don't want Nine -or others- to have to rename or lose a dragon with a name that is a real name and wasn't used as body part slang. Or a name for a cat that also wasn't intended to reference body parts. (Gah why do we have so much slang for body pieces?!)

 

oh, ok for the ToS stuff, I'm hearing you. Like claiming ignorance to driving laws when having a license makes you responsible to follow them. (But then laws don't allow one thing one year from one policeman and then you get arrested 2yrs later from same action but different officer UNLESS it's been publicized/posted that there's been a law change, no?)

  Though I did also look for my own curiosity since I didn't remember seeing anywhere in cave where it read that things needed to be kept PG-13

 

Discussion is good! It helps me see different points of view and learn stuff, and I liked hearing your thoughts.   

Yep, boils down to plainly stated guidelines and consistentcy doesn't it? (Pls excuse any typos autocorrect is having a field day with me today)

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i was trying two-letter combinations and noticed that "bj" is open, is that legal

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1 hour ago, secretsnail9 said:

i was trying two-letter combinations and noticed that "bj" is open, is that legal

 

That's fine. 

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On 3/19/2019 at 3:01 AM, Keileon said:

I remember years ago there was a non-native English speaker who got their scroll burned because they named a chicken "I like ****s", with the censored word being another for rooster. They were unaware of its other connotation in English. While not the same exact thing as naming something "kill yourself" or "Nazi" or "KKK", it's the same general principle: context.

 

That was me. 😅 Thankfully TJ only killed the chicken, he didn't burn my scroll. I still want roosters to be released in the cave!

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On 4/6/2019 at 6:39 AM, blah said:

 

That was me. 😅 Thankfully TJ only killed the chicken, he didn't burn my scroll. I still want roosters to be released in the cave!

 

Oh my god, thats sad because thats just hilarious (I had to go check your scroll, they're all great XD)

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