Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

[~Kat~]

 

it should be up to the two partners, same sex or otherwise and their children if they have any if they're a couple or not.

 

NOT what anyone else says or does,

 

I mean it's not like (for guys) a homosexual man is forcing it down you're throat, or for women a homosexual woman is waving her breasts in your face.

 

Move on already...

I do agree with you that a gay couple can raise healthy active children. I see nothing wrong with it at all. What I find with straight people, they do not know any gay people, and are afraid of what they do not understand. This subject comes up at work, and I am amazed at some of the rubbish that comes out of their mouths. I speak up eventually and tell them I have gay friends and they are as normal as straight people, you should see the looks on their faces, I have to laugh.

 

Some of my gay friends have children and they are just as normal as I am. Not that this matters, but their children are adults now and they are straight. All their friends loved their two moms. When it comes down to it, you would not even know my friends were gay if they did not know you.

 

There are so many children in orphanages, and I feel gay people should be able to adopt these children myself. These children would have such loving homes with two moms or dads. I honestly feel this is neglecting children when they could be placed in a stable environment.

 

I have been thinking about this topic ever since I really started posting. Liike I said, I do believe marriage is between one man and one woman, it has nothing to do with religion. But when it comes down to it, it is not really going to hurt anyone if they were able to get married.

 

I hope I have not shocked any of you by what I have posted, but if you kept up with what I have posted you would have realized this all along.

 

The sad part is, a lot of people will not ever except.

 

Try and learn to be comfortable who you are. I know some are still young and live at home, and even their own parents condemn them. As you become young adults, and hopefully you can make your own money and find happiness.

 

I do know if one of my adult children told me they were gay, it WOULD NOT change my love for them. I would help them the best I could to learn to cope in this world that is full of hatred. Hatred reach's out in many forms, not just to gays.

[hazeh]

Kat, I think we've all been reading your posts and are appreciative of what you say. I'm glad to see that even though you believe marriage as between a man and a woman, that you are loving and accepting and tolerant of the idea of gay marriage. I, at least, am happy to have had discussions with you and learn your insight on the matter.

 

Though it seems like a lot of us also discuss this topic on terms of trying to coerce others into believing the way we do (which is always prevalent in a debate), I think we just want to make sure that people understand the topic fully, which I do believe you do. I'm certainly not going to try and force you to believe that marriage is different than you believe, since you know what my belief about it is already. And it's totally fine to believe differently. What we're all worried about, though, is people who activity try to forsake others by forcing their personal ideals on the rest of us. That certainly isn't you, Kat, and we recognize (and appreciate) that.

 

So thank you for being so nice (:

[epicguy10000]

There are so many children in orphanages, and I feel gay people should be able to adopt these children myself. These children would have such loving homes with two moms or dads. I honestly feel this is neglecting children when they could be placed in a stable environment.

I honestly feel that I have noticed gays/lesbians tend to be nicer people in general, now this is just a huge assumption I'm making with just a few pieces of evidence, but from what I have seen they are in general nicer than straight people, now once again this is a huge assumption, so I could be speaking non-sense

 

Basically I'm agreeing with you on the fact that the children would have loving homes

 

EDIT:I also feel that children in a gay/lesbian household would have a loving home due to the fact that the parents can't have children themselves (Naturally, I do know it is possible through a special process) so I think they would cherish the child for the reason they cannot (naturally) have on on their own

Edited August 4, 2012 by penguin_adu6oo

[~Kat~]

I honestly feel that I have noticed gays/lesbians tend to be nicer people in general, now this is just a huge assumption I'm making with just a few pieces of evidence, but from what I have seen they are in general nicer than straight people, now once again this is a huge assumption, so I could be speaking non-sense

 

Basically I'm agreeing with you on the fact that the children would have loving homes

 

EDIT:I also feel that children in a gay/lesbian household would have a loving home due to the fact that the parents can't have children themselves (Naturally, I do know it is possible through a special process) so I think they would cherish the child for the reason they cannot (naturally) have on on their own

A gay/ lesbian household can have children from one of them. It will be the natural born child from one of the couples.

 

If someone want s to explain, go a head, if not, I will come back later to this topic and explain,

 

 

[epicguy10000]

A gay/ lesbian household can have children from one of them. It will be the natural born child from one of the couples.

 

If someone want s to explain, go a head, if not, I will come back later to this topic and explain,

No I may have phrased it wrong, I understand that a gay/lesbian household can still have children, I'm just saying that I think they would cherish a child more than a normal couple (now once again this is me just saying my random thoughts, I know that straight couples still love their child with all their heart (I hope...) but I'm just making a general assumption, as I do

[BirdSpirit]

No I may have phrased it wrong, I understand that a gay/lesbian household can still have children, I'm just saying that I think they would cherish a child more than a normal couple (now once again this is me just saying my random thoughts, I know that straight couples still love their child with all their heart (I hope...) but I'm just making a general assumption, as I do

Might be deviating slightly from topic here, but I've always wondered about why gay/lesbian couples are thought to make better parents. Is it because of the pressure society puts on them? Or maybe something else?

[~Kat~]

No I may have phrased it wrong, I understand that a gay/lesbian household can still have children, I'm just saying that I think they would cherish a child more than a normal couple (now once again this is me just saying my random thoughts, I know that straight couples still love their child with all their heart (I hope...) but I'm just making a general assumption, as I do

Lol, you did phrase it a little different,

 

I do not feel because someone is straight or gay, that one love is stronger than the others when in it comes to loving a child. We all have the paternal, maternal instincts in us.

 

I know I would die for one of my adult children, and I have a feeling a gay parent would as well.

Edited August 4, 2012 by ~Kat~

[epicguy10000]

Lol, you did phrase it a little different,

 

I do not feel because someone is straight or gay, that one love is stronger than the others when in it comes to loving a child. We all have the paternal, maternal instincts in us.

 

I know I would die for one of my adult children, and I have a feeling a gay parent would as well.

I know that almost everyone here would do the same for their child as well, but like I said I'm just sort of speaking what comes to my mind, which doesn't always think straight (especially considering my brain is getting tired) and seeing what people have to say about it, whether they agree or disagree

But completely off topic of what I was just talking about, I have learned a lot from this thread

[St. Jimmy]

We all have the paternal, maternal instincts in us.

Not necessarily true. Some people have neither, myself being one of them. I do agree with you that it has nothing to do with sexual orientation though.

[~Kat~]

Not necessarily true. Some people have neither, myself being one of them. I do agree with you that it has nothing to do with sexual orientation though.

I can say you are right about that.

 

But if someone does feel that way, I do not think it is fair to bring a child into this world. I also know people who do not want children, and that is ok with me. Not everyone is cut out to have a child.

 

I do know I love my children heart and soul.

[Kila]

I don't see what the large concern is about gay marriage. It affects only the people who decide to get married and does not make a straight person's lives worse. However, if people have the problem with the word "marriage" then just call it something else. I'm up for it as long as everyone gets the same rights.

 

I'm aware that there was a proposal to call gay marriage something else, but for some reason I am unable to find that particular article at the current moment. If someone can find it, that would be very nice.

 

Back to the whole Chick Fil A thing, I found it rather offensive that they had so many supporters on Appreciation day. True, our world is changing, but too slowly in my opinion.

But marriage is secular. Atheists can get married. Interracial couples can marry, which is (or was) considered a sin. I think to call gay marriage anything but marriage would be distasteful (I can't think of a better word, I'm afraid D:).

 

I think the term you're thinking of is "Civil Union".

 

Kat, I think we've all been reading your posts and are appreciative of what you say. I'm glad to see that even though you believe marriage as between a man and a woman, that you are loving and accepting and tolerant of the idea of gay marriage. I, at least, am happy to have had discussions with you and learn your insight on the matter.

 

Though it seems like a lot of us also discuss this topic on terms of trying to coerce others into believing the way we do (which is always prevalent in a debate), I think we just want to make sure that people understand the topic fully, which I do believe you do. I'm certainly not going to try and force you to believe that marriage is different than you believe, since you know what my belief about it is already. And it's totally fine to believe differently. What we're all worried about, though, is people who activity try to forsake others by forcing their personal ideals on the rest of us. That certainly isn't you, Kat, and we recognize (and appreciate) that.

 

So thank you for being so nice (:

 

Agreed. It's always nice to meet someone who respectfully disagrees, but is willing to be tolerant.

[Zovesta]

Not in the mood to breeze through a million pages, so can I get your guy's opinions on the Chick Fil-A thing?

[~Kat~]

Kat, I think we've all been reading your posts and are appreciative of what you say. I'm glad to see that even though you believe marriage as between a man and a woman, that you are loving and accepting and tolerant of the idea of gay marriage. I, at least, am happy to have had discussions with you and learn your insight on the matter.

 

Though it seems like a lot of us also discuss this topic on terms of trying to coerce others into believing the way we do (which is always prevalent in a debate), I think we just want to make sure that people understand the topic fully, which I do believe you do. I'm certainly not going to try and force you to believe that marriage is different than you believe, since you know what my belief about it is already. And it's totally fine to believe differently. What we're all worried about, though, is people who activity try to forsake others by forcing their personal ideals on the rest of us. That certainly isn't you, Kat, and we recognize (and appreciate) that.

 

So thank you for being so nice (:

Thank you so much for your kind words, it means a lot to me.

 

Thank you also Kila and to others as well.

 

In life as many of us have found, there will always be others trying to force there beliefs on others. You can not force anything. People will not always be tolerant either. I am sometimes guilty of how I word things, but you will find me a very tolerant and accepting person with most things.

 

I understand we all can not help who we love, even if it is the same sex gender. I try and put myself in others shoes at times. Being with the same sex partner just isn't for me, so therefore I can imagine how someone that does want to be with the same gender, can feel about being with the opposite gender.

 

I have had this conversation with my gay friends and their partners, and I can fully understand how any of you feel.

 

I would not want to force my beliefs that I feel marriage to me is between one man and one woman, and mine is not from religious belief, Any of you can not force your beliefs either. Your battles of what you believe with religious people that do not have tolerance, will be hard won. I myself have often wondered, if some of the religious people were to meet a gay person and did not know that person was gay, and really liked them and became good friends, and then found out they were gay, how they would react. At least they would see, that gay people are just as normal and nice as them. They would then have to do some soul searching in their hearts.

 

It is not always easy to be the bigger person, but always remember you all will have people in this world that are straight, that will be your friend and accept you for who you are. Take comfort in that and I hope some of you let go of the anger if you feel anger, as you only bring stress upon yourself. Stress is not good for a body as it causes many health issues. Try and find tolerance in your hearts with those that do not understand.

[Aingeal]

I myself have often wondered, if some of the religious people were to meet a gay person and did not know that person was gay, and really liked them and became good friends, and then found out they were gay, how they would react. At least they would see, that gay people are just as normal and nice as them. They would then have to do some soul searching in their hearts.

 

In my experience? Rape them to turn them straight, attempt exorcisms and pain-based aversion therapy.

[~Kat~]

In my experience? Rape them to turn them straight, attempt exorcisms and pain-based aversion therapy.

I do hope this has never happened to any of you, as this is so wrong, and someone that would do this is not a christian. But like with anything, you have your good and bad people, no matter beliefs, jobs or anything else.

 

Remember, not all would think or do something as horrible as that.

[Vhale]

Speaking for myself, I see a lot of fellow Christians post that the reason they speak out against gay marriage is that it's a sin and they are supposed to lovingly point out sin. So, to me, I don't agree with the things like Aingeal mentioned. And it bothers me to see the previous point repeated yet I don't see Christians commonly speak out against those tactics. Only uncommonly. It makes me feel like Christians are being hypocrital. And Jesus said a lot more about hypocrits than gays or gay marriage. And being that he was around in Roman times, it was certainly a common enough issue that he could have if he wanted to. Likewise, it bothers me to see people going to the Old testament to justify it while apparently ignoring the 10 commandments with the results of their actions. I can't pray for the meek and poor then simultaneously bring about their hardship. And if I did, I feel like God would be up there waiting to drop a spiritual brick on my head to bring me back to my senses. But, I've always viewed prayer as a, be careful what you ask for thing. The Good Samaritan story required someone to get the crap beaten out of them and the Crucifixion required some deaths. Saul, went blind. I have noticed pain is often part of one's spiritual journey.

 

The biggest issue for me, admittedly is not so much the marrying part, it's losing the rights that come with it. Especially those relating to being able to visit loved ones dying in hospitals. To me, it's unspeakable cruel to even entertain the notion of refusing to let people on their deathbed see whomever they want. It's... unimagineable. Yet, we had to pass a federal law to let people do just that. And, people fight it, trying to get it repealed. So, I side with marriage rights mainly to prevent people having to go through that drama. I'm not comfortable with myself funding support for the repeal of those rights. However miniscule that funding may be, the act of being involved in it is something I can't do. Citation

 

I feel like I should point out, I do try to use links as much as possible. This is not to rub anyone's nose into anything, but I've found that people usually ask me for one later to prove the point anyway, so it just saves time and posts in the long run. Especially when I often don't get back to a thread for awhile later.

[Fuzzbucket]

It wasn't even always against Christian mores. From - improbably, the Daily Mail in the UK - not the most liberal minded of newspapers:

 

An icon in a Kiev art museum shows two robed Christian martyrs, St Sergius and St Bacchus who some modern scholars believe were gay.

 

The image of the two men has a traditional Roman ‘pronubus’ (best man), in the image of Christ between them, apparently overseeing their wedding.

 

Severus, the Patriarch of Antioch (512 - 518 AD) explained that, 'we should not separate in speech they [sergius and Bacchus] who were joined in life.'

 

Background source

 

Times change and with them, prevailing "morals".

Edited August 4, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Aingeal]

I do hope this has never happened to any of you, as this is so wrong, and someone that would do this is not a christian.

 

Their pastor disagrees with you on that.

 

Unfortunately, no one gets to say who is and who is not Christian. If you believe in Jesus Christ and that he died for your sins, by definition, and by belief, you are a Christian.

[ShinyTomato]

I do hope this has never happened to any of you, as this is so wrong, and someone that would do this is not a christian. But like with anything, you have your good and bad people, no matter beliefs, jobs or anything else.

 

Remember, not all would think or do something as horrible as that.

 

I can't speak for Aingeal, but my eldest daughter is the product of a rape to "turn" me straight, worse yet, for everyone involved -- by my wife's brother.

 

As far as aversion therapy -- I can't criticize anyone else for that. I signed up for it -- several times. Yes, it was Christian based, back when they were still allowed to do electroshock, vomit therapy, and waterboarding.

 

 

[Princess Artemis]

Speaking for myself, I see a lot of fellow Christians post that the reason they speak out against gay marriage is that it's a sin and they are supposed to lovingly point out sin. So, to me, I don't agree with the things like Aingeal mentioned. And it bothers me to see the previous point repeated yet I don't see Christians commonly speak out against those tactics. Only uncommonly. It makes me feel like Christians are being hypocrital.

Frankly, I don't hear enough humans speak out on the subject of the evil of "rape the gay away" as well as other related topics. If we had more humans speaking out, maybe it would get to be a national subject and actually talked about :/

Edited August 4, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[ShinyTomato]

Frankly, I don't hear enough humans speak out on the subject of the evil of "rape the gay away" as well as other related topics. If we had more humans speaking out, maybe it would get to be a national subject and actually talked about :/

You mean other than When a radio DJ tells a worried dad to have a friend rape his daughter?

[BirdSpirit]

But marriage is secular. Atheists can get married. Interracial couples can marry, which is (or was) considered a sin. I think to call gay marriage anything but marriage would be distasteful (I can't think of a better word, I'm afraid D:).

 

I think the term you're thinking of is "Civil Union".

Is marriage really secular? I always saw it as something that was religious because of all the bible mentionings of it.

 

This is just my opinion, but I'm not going to be picky as to what it's called as long as I get the same rights when I'm married.

 

The term I am thinking of is not Civil Union. Civil Union is lesser than marriage. Forgive me, but I am still trying to find the proposed word in news articles.

[Princess Artemis]

You mean other than When a radio DJ tells a worried dad to have a friend rape his daughter?

Yes, other than that. I don't hear enough humans speaking out against stuff like that. I hear about it happening, but I don't hear enough people speaking out about it, no. I'd sure like it if more people knew stuff like that happened so they would take it seriously instead of "hur hur rape is funny, let's suggest it as a viable tactic". When they know things like that happen, they tend to speak out about it more. But so many humans don't take rape seriously, so don't speak out against it.

 

I think that is a humanity problem. Not just a religion problem.

[Fuzzbucket]

Is marriage really secular? I always saw it as something that was religious because of all the bible mentionings of it.

 

This is just my opinion, but I'm not going to be picky as to what it's called as long as I get the same rights when I'm married.

 

The term I am thinking of is not Civil Union. Civil Union is lesser than marriage. Forgive me, but I am still trying to find the proposed word in news articles.

Civil partnership is what they are called in the UK...

 

And anything that is not MARRIAGE feels "less than marriage" to the gay people who want the same as the rest of the population. And anything that is not MARRIAGE fails to confer the identical rights that different sex marriages get. Even civil partnerships fail on some of them.

 

I am also annoyed that as marriage does (in my eyes) feel to have religious connotations(as in whenever one mentions it, most people assume you did it in church) although I had a civil CEREMONY, I would never have been able to have a civil partnership instead. Quite a few people in the UK were hacked off when that became obvious when the act allowing civil partnerships came into force.

[ShinyTomato]

Is marriage really secular? I always saw it as something that was religious because of all the bible mentionings of it.

 

Holy Matrimony is the religious bit. Marriage is secular. A lot of people get that messed up and don't realise that there already is a separate word for marriage that most gay people don't necessarily want.

 

I think that is a humanity problem. Not just a religion problem.

 

I agree.