Option to use Sort By to view other's scrolls

[HeatherMarie]

Whether or not "optional" is a good choice in *other* threads, it's the only way I would support this suggestion. I personally have my scroll sorted the way I want it for specific reasons and I do *not* want people to have the ability to sort *my* scroll any way they want.

[Obscure_Trash]

1) From previous posts of TJ, it would appear that "optional" is not a good choice.

I think this is being a little picky. He's said that not everything needs to be optional because even the tiniest little suggestions were having people go "optional pls" when having it optional is more work than not especially when the suggestion really didn't harm or put anyone out but was just a preference.

 

That being said, I debated suggesting this be option but I'm not sure it fits this suggestion. However, I would be more inclined to support optional for this suggestion than for the dozens of others being optional was brought up in.

 

We do also already have the option to hide scrollnames, hide scrolls, and choose where we link our scroll or not, which should already help with any harassment that people fear.

[Xasora]

Whether or not "optional" is a good choice in *other* threads, it's the only way I would support this suggestion. I personally have my scroll sorted the way I want it for specific reasons and I do *not* want people to have the ability to sort *my* scroll any way they want.

My question is: how would you even know if someone sorted your scroll? Those "sort by" options are temporary and do not change your default view. Were this implemented, I would imagine that I could go to your scroll and sort by age, and JoeBob could decide at the same moment to look at your scroll as rainbow sorted, and neither action would change how you see your scroll. I doubt there'd even be a way to know that someone had looked at your scroll.

 

And if it doesn't affect how you see your scroll, do you still worry over other people being able to change how they see it?

[HeatherMarie]

It's not about affecting my view of my scroll. I don't want OTHER PEOPLE seeing my scroll in their own personal preferences. As I stated, I have my scroll sorted the way it is for reasons. And my reasons are small compared to many people! Many people have their scrolls sorted very specifically, with notices or forum names and such at the top of the scroll, and 'marker dragons' used to mark certain lineages. People spend a LOT of time sorting their scrolls exactly how they want, exactly how they want it to be *seen*. That would all be for nothing if random users could just sort it however they darn well pleased. As I said, many of us *want* users to see our scrolls a certain way.

[noxlyx]

We do also already have the option to hide scrollnames, hide scrolls, and choose where we link our scroll or not, which should already help with any harassment that people fear.

This also brings up a good point.

 

Not to mention if TJ does end up putting it in the rules that harassment is not an option/against the rules then it's against the rules, and unlike viewbombing, forum harassment is something you can easily point at the culprit and say "Uhm, excuse me?"

 

Of course, that's a caveat of its own, and it would be a lot of work.

 

However, if DragonCave is moving in this sort of direction, change is going to happen in terms of rules and application. We all know that if this scroll search thing does happen, it's not going to happen for a good long while.

 

I don't think that this scroll sort is going to happen in the forseeable future because of how much work it's going to take for it. I also think that the chances of this being approved is slim. However, that doesn't change the fact that I do wholly support this because I have always thought that this was a good idea to help with organizing trades and gifting.

 

For example: There are plenty of amazing gifting threads out there where people simply state that they have "X Holiday Dragon" and they are willing to breed with any mate for it. I have once upon a time went on a hunt searching for 2nd Gen Orange Pyralsprites from Graveseekers. I stumbled across a gifting thread and spent a good amount of time digging through disorganized scrolls and organized scrolls attempting to find if the person has a Caveborn Orange Pyralsprite. If there was a sort option, I would have sorted by breed and just opened up all the Pyrals in separate tabs and had an answer immediately.

 

This would apply to people who would possibly want something off of my own scroll.

 

Change is a scary thing, and if this is implemented this would be a very big change. I don't see it being something small because this isn't something cosmetic like an Encyclopedia, this does directly affect gameplay. However, if TJ does end up deciding that this is something worth taking up, he's going to be smart enough to implement fail-safes and what not. After all, it's TJ and DragCave is his baby.

[Obscure_Trash]

This also brings up a good point.

 

Not to mention if TJ does end up putting it in the rules that harassment is not an option/against the rules then it's against the rules, and unlike viewbombing, forum harassment is something you can easily point at the culprit and say "Uhm, excuse me?"

It is already an rule:

 

Interactions with other users

 

All interactions with other users must be willful. Bothering other users to return abandoned eggs or posting the eggs, hatchlings, or adult dragons without a user's permission are prohibited.

 

The only problem is that without certain things changed in the API so fansite owners and TJ can work together, there's not a lot that can be done against viewbombing unless someone publicly admits to it.

[noxlyx]

Interactions with other users

 

All interactions with other users must be willful. Bothering other users to return abandoned eggs or posting the eggs, hatchlings, or adult dragons without a user's permission are prohibited.

Oh, nice! I though that the rules of interactions was posted separate from the main rules in the DragonCave Forum Rules/Terms of Agreement because interactions mostly happen in the forums. Thank you for the clarification!

[Obscure_Trash]

Oh, nice! I though that the rules of interactions was posted separate from the main rules in the DragonCave Forum Rules/Terms of Agreement because interactions mostly happen in the forums. Thank you for the clarification!

TJ's the only one who can do cave consequences, but if people are disrespectful on the forum, mods can take care of that.

 

Harassment is also against the forum rules:

 

Respect Others

It isn't possible to get far in the world if you refuse to respect others. Treat others kindly, don't insult them, and others will do the same in return. If you refuse to treat others well, then you will get not only a warning, but a bad reputation, which opens the door for more negativity.

[bluesonic1]

While I'm sure there would be some that try to take advantage, I think there were also a lot of us that supported this so we could have an easier time/feel more comfortable gifting people.

^ This. I'm one of those people. I try to list the rarest things I have on my scroll so people can see and pick from that for requests, but I'd love for them to look through my scroll and pick any dragon they want themselves (mostly because many times they're after something else). Because of that, I'm fully in support of this idea.

 

Also, for whatever reason, people seem to have it in their head that this physically re-sorts your scroll, even if temporary. It doesn't- I'm not sure if the OP already mentioned it but I know others have in the first page. This "Sort By" option is a filter, not a sorting option. I think for this idea to progress, these two concepts need to be well distinguished- one sorts your scroll and the other simply adjusts the view for a a singer user, for a particular and short-term reason.

 

If you don't understand this, please go to your scroll page right now- click "Account" and then "Sort Order". These are your sorting options. Now go back to your scroll page- under all your trophies, you'll see a "Filter By" option, now look to the right at "Sort By"; those are additional filtering options. Try them out and you'll see that they change your scroll view, without actually affecting your scroll order. This is what we're proposing to use for other scrolls- so that we can choose how to view them, as opposed to sorting them to our likes.

 

(I'm aware that a lot of you understand the mechanism of how this works, but the majority of opposes I've seen so far are from people who don't understand how it works, which is why I posted the last 2 paragraphs. This isn't a "temporary sorting"- it's just a viewing filter.)

[Fuzzbucket]

Rather than a facility to sort so that others can start begging, how about this: when you WANT to show someone something, as in "I will breed anything on my scroll for you" - to OFFER another user the option to sort your scroll in some way they needed to, to see something - just for this once day, say. With a link like a teleport you could send them, and once activated it could hold for 24 hours.

 

Less intrusive and more player controlled.

[AppleMango]

Rather than a facility to sort so that others can start begging, how about this: when you WANT to show someone something, as in "I will breed anything on my scroll for you" - to OFFER another user the option to sort your scroll in some way they needed to, to see something - just for this once day, say. With a link like a teleport you could send them, and once activated it could hold for 24 hours.

 

Less intrusive and more player controlled.

I support it anyway but I think this is a good idea that would make everyone happy with it.

[Silverwatermist]

Or how about an option in your settings where, if you would like other users to be able to filter your scroll, you can select something that allows it? That way those who do not want people to be able to find things on their scroll and start begging for eggs don't have to deal with it, but those who want to make gifting easier and want to encourage it can have the option.

[AppleMango]

Or how about an option in your settings where, if you would like other users to be able to filter your scroll, you can select something that allows it? That way those who do not want people to be able to find things on their scroll and start begging for eggs don't have to deal with it, but those who want to make gifting easier and want to encourage it can have the option.

I think combining this with fuzzbucket's idea would be the best.

I'm assuming the default would be off? I mean, I'm going to turn it on I'm just wondering people always make it seem like the default setting is a very important part of it ??

[bluesonic1]

We do also already have the option to hide scrollnames, hide scrolls, and choose where we link our scroll or not, which should already help with any harassment that people fear.

^ That, to this and similar comments V

 

That way those who do not want people to be able to find things on their scroll and start begging for eggs don't have to deal with it, but those who want to make gifting easier and want to encourage it can have the option.

 

Considering the options we currently have to hide our scrolls (don't forget that hiding adults is missing in the first quote) and deter users from begging for eggs, I really don't see this suggestion as providing more issues in regards to begging than that that already exists. If users are so determined to ask for a particular egg from you, they can do it without the scroll filtering you know (and they will & already do). I find it unfair that an issue that already exists without the implementation of this feature is being used as the reason not to implement it, with its benefits being ignored as a result- it's not entirely logical.

Edited January 24, 2016 by bluesonic1

[Fuzzbucket]

I breed for free. Willingly. I have been harassed by two people here I have blocked who DID take the trouble to do exactly that. What concerns me is that sorting the scrolls of people like me will result in a hugely increased number of requests. "OOH she breeds for free, let's see what I can ask for." I don't mind being asked - but I would certainly stop advertising that I breed for free if this were implemented as I do have my OWN scroll stuff to do, and I have no doubt at all that making it that much easier to trawl for goodies (there is also a person here who regularly goes through ALL my shinies and asks for offspring of every last "good lineaged" one... Actually I think she's funny) will mean others will be asking constantly.

 

Sure I could hide my adults - but I don't want to have to do that.

Edited January 24, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[SullenCat]

Rather than a facility to sort so that others can start begging, how about this: when you WANT to show someone something, as in "I will breed anything on my scroll for you" - to OFFER another user the option to sort your scroll in some way they needed to, to see something - just for this once day, say. With a link like a teleport you could send them, and once activated it could hold for 24 hours.

 

Less intrusive and more player controlled.

Very good idea. Support.

[Obscure_Trash]

Rather than a facility to sort so that others can start begging, how about this: when you WANT to show someone something, as in "I will breed anything on my scroll for you" - to OFFER another user the option to sort your scroll in some way they needed to, to see something - just for this once day, say. With a link like a teleport you could send them, and once activated it could hold for 24 hours.

 

Less intrusive and more player controlled.

If we're going this route, might as well just change the sort on your scroll for 24 hours.

 

This compromise works for others seeing your scroll but not seeing others scrolls - I would want to use this to help glomp gift, for example. I suppose the compromise here would be I just do what I'm already doing and don't glomp gift, and if I really want to git, I'll just PM the person and ask what they want.

 

I want this suggest because it makes things easier, but all the above options negate that.

[Fuzzbucket]

If we're going this route, might as well just change the sort on your scroll for 24 hours.

 

This compromise works for others seeing your scroll but not seeing others scrolls - I would want to use this to help glomp gift, for example. I suppose the compromise here would be I just do what I'm already doing and don't glomp gift, and if I really want to git, I'll just PM the person and ask what they want.

 

I want this suggest because it makes things easier, but all the above options negate that.

But I have a hugely complicated custom sort and 4500+ dragons. Thanks but no thanks ! If someone wants to look at all my somethings or others and can sort that way temporarily if I give them a key - and someone else wants to see it sorted a different way about the same time - that could work, but my re-sorting over and over - no way.

 

But yes - it wouldn't work for glomping. Then again - I glomp based on seeing a post or a sig, so - no prob !

Edited January 24, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[Obscure_Trash]

But I have a hugely complicated custom sort and 4500+ dragons. Thanks but no thanks ! If someone wants to look at all my somethings or others and can sort that way temporarily if I give them a key - and someone else wants to see it sorted a different way about the same time - that could work, but my re-sorting over and over - no way.

Like the filters, you could only offer to re-sort by the default pre-sorts for people. If you choose another presort, you can always choose that again later. As well, if you use custom sort, that is saved, as long as you choose a default sort while not in custom sort. All you do is go back in custom sort and save. Voila. So you can go right back to the sort you prefer. No muss, no fuss.

 

But again, it'd just be easier for others to be able to use a sort filter. =X

[olympe]

Rather than a facility to sort so that others can start begging, how about this:  when you WANT to show someone something, as in "I will breed anything on my scroll for you" - to OFFER another user the option to sort your scroll in some way they needed to, to see something - just for this once day, say. With a link like a teleport you could send them, and once activated it could hold for 24 hours.

 

Less intrusive and more player controlled.

I support it anyway but I think this is a good idea that would make everyone happy with it.

Especially people who use some kind of custom sort. I mean, I'm sure they'd get a kick of sorting everything all over again.

 

[/sarcasm]

Edited January 24, 2016 by olympe

[Fuzzbucket]

Like the filters, you could only offer to re-sort by the default pre-sorts for people. If you choose another presort, you can always choose that again later. As well, if you use custom sort, that is saved, as long as you choose a default sort while not in custom sort. All you do is go back in custom sort and save. Voila. So you can go right back to the sort you prefer. No muss, no fuss.

 

But again, it'd just be easier for others to be able to use a sort filter. =X

...It would.

 

And I only want that to happen if I give them a key to do it.

 

So hit me

Edited January 24, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[Obscure_Trash]

...It would.

 

And I only want that to happen if I give them a key to do it.

 

So hit me

And I get that, but I don't think the 'key', so to speak, is worth doing. I think you might as well just re-sort your scroll for 24 hours. Same amount of effort and energy and an option we already have, anyway.

Edited January 24, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[bluesonic1]

Especially people who use some kind of custom sort. I mean, I'm sure they'd get a kick of sorting everything all over again.

 

[/sarcasm]

We're discussing a filter option, not physically being able to temporarily resort another person's scroll so that they have to re-sort it.

 

I think the details of the compromise are getting a little unnecessarily complex, with teleport links and all. My suggestion is to take the filtering system we can already use on our scroll and be able to apply to apply it to others, with an option in your Account > Change Sort to allow people to do this to your scroll via a tick on/off box (something like "Let others use Filter views on my scroll").

Edited January 25, 2016 by bluesonic1

[Fuzzbucket]

And I get that, but I don't think the 'key', so to speak, is worth doing. I think you might as well just re-sort your scroll for 24 hours. Same amount of effort and energy and an option we already have, anyway.

I don't actually BELIEVE my custom sort would hold up.

 

I am NOT about to risk it not doing; Sorry.

 

ETA the option on our scrolls is not just filter; the filter options are NOT something I would want others to use. Available for BSA - none of their business. Eggs - NO WAY. Available for breeding - I don't want to advertise that either. I think we are talking about the ones on the RIGHT - sort by: breed, name, age. And except for breed - they aren't that much help to anyone.

Edited January 25, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[Obscure_Trash]

I don't actually BELIEVE my custom sort would hold up.

 

I am NOT about to risk it not doing; Sorry.

 

ETA the option on our scrolls is not just filter; the filter options are NOT something I would want others to use. Available for BSA - none of their business. Eggs - NO WAY. Available for breeding - I don't want to advertise that either. I think we are talking about the ones on the RIGHT - sort by: breed, name, age. And except for breed - they aren't that much help to anyone.

Well. It will. I've tested more than a dozen times any time the question comes up so that I can be sure what I'm telling people is correct. It will hold up. So may as well do it that way.

 

I used "filter sort" merely to differentiate the temp sort from the account sort options. I am sure bluesonic used "filter" to mean the same thing.

 

We are not suggesting people can filter scrolls. =_=

 

I think the details of the compromise are getting a little unnecessarily complex, with teleport links and all. 

 

1000% agree.

Edited January 25, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler