Allow Alts/Hybrids to be CB

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Exactly what it says on the title. Since Alts are just, well, alternate versions of a thing, why not allow said variations to be found in the 'wild' (aka as CBs)? No in-cave explanation has been given as to why Alts can only come from breedings, so why not?

 

Going off of that reasoning, I would also like to more tentatively suggest that CB Hybrids can be found in the cave as well. Even when we catch CB dragons, we know that they must have had 'parents.' With CB Hybrids, we could simply assume those unrecorded parents were the appropriate breeds needed to make the hybrid in question.

 

In both Alt and Hybrid cases, CBs of the breed would be rare (normal Alt chances in the case of Blacks and Vines, and I imagine all CB Hybrids would be quite uncommon, seeing as usually cross breeding occurs less often in the wild than in captivity).

 

Why am I suggesting this? Because our Alts and Hybrids are very pretty, and it'd be nice to see the sorts of lineages people could create with them if they didn't have to sacrifice the CB generation to their parent breeds.

 

I think this has been suggested before but couldn't find it, sooo... since CB Alts / Hybrids were recently rejected as a possible thing in the proposed shop I wanted to make a different suggestion.

 

Can there please be a chance to find CB Alts / Hybrids in the cave, even if they're just as rare as (or, potentially, although I dislike it, rarer) than CB Golds?

 

Honestly, having CB Alts / Hybrids makes sense for a lot of reasons. Hybridization and mutations happen all the time in the wild--they aren't just human-influenced happenings. Furthermore, based on DC logic, they make even more sense here than they do in even our real world. Almost all dragons are portrayed as human-like in intelligence, capable of interbreeding with a wide range of species--so why wouldn't these hyper intelligent creatures, with their own minds and willpower, not occasionally choose a mate from another dragon breed because, well, they LIKE each other? On top of that, hybrids and alts are portrayed in-game as functionally breeding, healthy creatures, so there's little evolutionary pressure to prevent them from happening.

Edited April 7, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Emeraldmay]

I don't support this.

 

Hybrids are created (it seems) to help caveblockers move, and if you could get them in CB then the demand for those caveblockers would be less. I also couldn't picture magi dragons mating with water dragons in the wild, as magis come from the desert and waters from the coast. Plus, that's what makes them special

 

With alts, both species are quite rare in the cave, so I wouldn't want to make them rarer. (I know hard to get isn't a reason for not supporting, but blacks are hard enough as it is. )

[Draikinator]

Alts should certainly be able to be found CB, I've never really understood why you couldn't. :/

Crossbreeds, not so much though. I think that's the appeal; of needing to breed them.

So, support on part one, not so much on part two.

[Tiki G]

I also couldn't picture magi dragons mating with water dragons in the wild, as magis come from the desert and waters from the coast.

Actually, Magi eggs can be found in any biome.

 

 

I'd love to be able to find hybrids/alts in the Cave. I don't really collect them too often since I can't do much with them lineage-wise. It would be nice to be able to use them in a wider variety of lineages.

 

However, I don't see this happening. I've seen at least one CB Black Alt picked as an HM and right now, you have the option to have any hybrids in CB form if you win an HM. I can imagine the person/people who chose CB hybrids as prizes would be rather disappointed if they were available for everyone. I know I would be pretty ticked off if I gave up the option to have a CB Holly and chose a CB Hybrid/Alt and then a few months later, I could just go and pick them up at the cave.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I don't support this.

 

Hybrids are created (it seems) to help caveblockers move, and if you could get them in CB then the demand for those caveblockers would be less. I also couldn't picture magi dragons mating with water dragons in the wild, as magis come from the desert and waters from the coast. Plus, that's what makes them special

 

With alts, both species are quite rare in the cave, so I wouldn't want to make them rarer. (I know hard to get isn't a reason for not supporting, but blacks are hard enough as it is. )

Magis can be found in all biomes All of the in-cave hybrids have parents that can be found in the same biomes, for that matter.

 

As I mentioned, CB Hybrids would be much harder to come by then their bred counterparts. Secondly--while hybrids help out the common parent breeds at first, from what I've seen that boost doesn't help them long. As someone who frequently goes AP fishing and cave diving, I can tell you that Spitfires, Deepseas, and Skywings are still far from being high in demand, despite all of them having hybrids. There's an early rush to get CBs, but once people can breed nice hybrids, they stop caring. For that reason (and again, also because CBs would be rare), I don't think having CB hybrids would hurt.

 

Regarding Alts--I don't think a change would make those breeds rarer, either. Blacks are already going to be very rare, and since CB Vines can sit for a while in the cave I doubt they'd become much rarer after this, since clearly the fact that they're the only way to produce Alt Vines ATM hasn't made them as rare as Blacks. And on a closing note... people already toss 2nd gen Black hatchlings if they don't alt. If they COULD Alt, who knows--maybe normal CB Blacks would stop being so inflated in value and become more accessible again, haha. Who can say that a lot of the CB Black's current appeal comes from them being the only way to get very desirable Alt Blacks currently?

Edited January 17, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Nectaris]

I will say that I don't think that CB alts will make blacks rarer, in fact I think the opposite. Think about it, CB blacks are rare because they are overbred for alts. If you didn't have to breed to get alts, don't you think that more might appear in the cave?

 

That said, I am unsure how I feel about hybrids being in the cave. Part of the fun of their release is figuring out how to get them from breeding. I suppose I wouldn't mind phasing them in after a certain length of time after their release, as long as they have some sort of way to tell that they are a hybrid(otherwise, you would never guess with some like the bluna).

Edited January 17, 2013 by Nectaris

[eritated]

I support this! I'd love some CB Blunae Edited January 17, 2013 by Erica8798

[gistofeverything]

No CB hybrids. The scenario of the dragons in question actually mating are close to zero, in my opinion.

 

I do support CB Alts, though.

Edited January 17, 2013 by gistofeverything

[Sir Barton]

While it makes sense in that some wild dragons will hybridize, I have to go with no on this one for reasons already given.

 

Hybrids appear to be one of the best solutions to cave blockers. If you have hybrids in the cave you will have more people trying to catch that elusive CB hybrid then the blockers to try to breed them because of the idea that the fewer bred of something the more likely we are to have it drop in the cave.

 

It also devalues the unique quality of those few who have their CB hybrid prize dragons, which doesn't seem fair and also why I would not care to see alts in the cave either. With the alts you also have the issue of Commondant Lassard, a legitimate glitched CB alt whose status was taken away because TJ said no to CB alts.

 

The alts came about for the same reason as the hybrids as far as I can tell, to move blocker dragons. It was obviously a success considering the false rare status of blacks. It seems rather like shooting yourself in the foot to change that, especially right now when people are desperately trying to find new ways to unblock the cave and the AP.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Sir Barton

[Fuzzbucket]

Also a hybrid IS a hybrid. It feels a bit chicken/eggy to me.

[Stromboli]

I do not support. Definitely not for hybrids. I love the breed-only kinds of dragons, and I particularly love that they are breed-only.

[Banuk]

I wouldn't mind seeing CB alts or hybrids.

 

Really, the logic that hybrids create demand for their parent dragons is a bit faulty, considering that stones, greens, deep seas, waters, spitfires, and skywings are all still considered blockers, and the only time that's changed at all for any of them since I started playing was for about a month after the ultraviolet release. If there's demand there, I'm really not seeing it.

[Sir Barton]

I wouldn't mind seeing CB alts or hybrids.

 

Really, the logic that hybrids create demand for their parent dragons is a bit faulty, considering that stones, greens, deep seas, waters, spitfires, and skywings are all still considered blockers, and the only time that's changed at all for any of them since I started playing was for about a month after the ultraviolet release. If there's demand there, I'm really not seeing it.

I think that we would have more of a blocking issue if we didn't have the hybrids to help alleviate some the load. If people were more interested in working with hybrids in general we would most likely see a reduction in blocker breeds but that is just an individual thing and how much effort people are willing to put into creating a lineage. I know that over Christmas I went from 6 stones to 49 of them because I just started a geode lineage. I have a friend who is working a massive lineage http://dragcave.net/lineage/5lYdb. Demand/user interest in a breed will always play the largest part, but the creation of hybrids does help with the blocker situation.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Sir Barton

[Fuzzbucket]

True (I am also working on a geode thing. But not THAT awesome !)

[Anna Selka]

I wouldn't mind having CB alts. It's not something I absolutely wish for, since it wouldn't affect me much either way, I'm just neutral on the subject. I don't think it would make that much of a difference though.

 

However I am strongly against having CB hybrids. The whole point with them is having to breed their parent breeds to get them. If not, then why call them hybrids and differentiate them from the other breeds in the first place ? Yes, you have to work around the fact that they're hybrids if you want to make a lineage. But isn't that precisely what sets them apart and makes them interesting ? I wouldn't want all breeds to function the same. I like that there is variety in DC, just like in real life ! I do not support forcing everything to be the same, that would just make things boring.

I loved the idea of having hybrids, and hope more are implemented in the future. I would be very disappointed if they lost what makes them unique.

[Aurora-Silver]

CB Alts would be great.

But Hybrids should stay the way they are. After all, hybrids are called hybrids for a reason.

[Thuban]

Ok, so im rather mixed on this. Honestly, i dont collect hybrids because i do not like having more than two breeds in my lineages.. so on that front, i would like to see cb hybrids, however.. the point of hybrids is to encourage users to collect the cave blockers associated with them. If hybrids were to hapen in cave.. i would prefer to see them pop up as cb metal rarity.. something you rarely see.. but wouldnt know you have until you clicked? I think it might be a good idea to hand them out with one of the parent breed descriptions rather than the hybrids description.. purely to continue encouraging picking up those blocker breeds.

 

 

(has a concept she hopes will get released that would drop the alts rarely in cave...)

[StormWizard212]

Ok, so im rather mixed on this. Honestly, i dont collect hybrids because i do not like having more than two breeds in my lineages.. so on that front, i would like to see cb hybrids, however.. the point of hybrids is to encourage users to collect the cave blockers associated with them. If hybrids were to hapen in cave.. i would prefer to see them pop up as cb metal rarity.. something you rarely see.. but wouldnt know you have until you clicked? I think it might be a good idea to hand them out with one of the parent breed descriptions rather than the hybrids description.. purely to continue encouraging picking up those blocker breeds.

 

 

(has a concept she hopes will get released that would drop the alts rarely in cave...)

I think this is a really good idea. If this were implemented, that's the way I'd like to see it done.

 

Same as Thu, I'm torn on this. I don't really collect hybrids that much since I like having CB dragons and I like being able to choose my own lineages, not having them chosen for me (if that makes sense).

 

CB alts I'd love to see though! I think they should be a lot rarer than bred alts, though, otherwise they're virtually the same as a bred alt. I'd like to see this as something really, really obscure so that when it happens, it's like "Wow, aren't I lucky!"

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I still just don't think that hybrids help out their parents that much. ^^; If you take a peek in the AP right now, there's a ton of deepseas and a few Spitifires sitting around. That doesn't suggest a great desirability to me. Now, I suppose they might be even more common if they weren't around, but I rather doubt it.

 

If people were more interested in working with hybrids in general we would most likely see a reduction in blocker breeds but that is just an individual thing and how much effort people are willing to put into creating a lineage.

 

It is true that rarity is determined by user effort to a large degree. That being said--people could just as easily choose to create lineages out of blocker breeds WITHOUT there being hybrids tied to them, no? I don't think having hybrids has made people particularly more motivated to make lineages with their parents then they'd be motivated to do so with any common breed. ^^;

 

Now, that being said--while I think hybrids lose their helpful effect for their parents pretty quickly, I do realize that at least right after the release there's a spike in their popularity as people rush to stock up on CBs. Accordingly, I imagine 'in-cave' hybrids wouldn't be phased in until quite some time after the original release--perhaps a year later, or longer if TJ deems their parent breeds could still use (and are recieving such) a boost from the presence of their hybrids.

 

Plus again, these little guys would be much harder to catch then to breed, so if people just wanted a nice UV/Bluna/whatever, it'd be much easier for them to breed a 2nd gen then hunt down a CB.

 

As one last note, regarding people who choose CB Alts/Hybrids as prizes--there WERE CB Alts in the way, way past, so such things are already not quite prize-winner unique. There are also CBs of them as Thuweds, so again, not 100% special. And there was always the chance that they could be introduced later on, whereas past things like Hollies never will be, so it's sort of a chance they took. ^^; (And... well, there really IS a very, very low amount of prize winners, and even fewer who choose CB Hybrids/Alts, so I just don't think this suggestion should be shut down solely to protect those few people).

 

If hybrids were to hapen in cave.. i would prefer to see them pop up as cb metal rarity.. something you rarely see.. but wouldnt know you have until you clicked? I think it might be a good idea to hand them out with one of the parent breed descriptions rather than the hybrids description.. purely to continue encouraging picking up those blocker breeds.

 

I was thinking more CB Trio rarity, as that's still very, very rare while not being absurd as for sharing descriptions with their parents--I'd be ok with that (don't some already share descriptions? Blunas, I think).

Edited January 17, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Isuzu]

I'm not too fond of the idea of Hybrids showing up in the cave, but the chance of getting a CB Alt Black/Vine is definitely entertaining

[RainDear]

In many animals bred in captivity new colors only appear in those that are bred in captivity. Also many animals even though of related species don't crossbreed in the wild. In DC species that were once captive (those in the wilderness) do so, but it is likely that this doesn't happen in cave. I believe this to be the in cave RP explanation for alts and hybrids. You couldn't get poodles in the wild. Blue and yellow parakeets aren't found in the wild, either.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

In many animals bred in captivity new colors only appear in those that are bred in captivity. Also many animals even though of related species don't crossbreed in the wild. In DC species that were once captive (those in the wilderness) do so, but it is likely that this doesn't happen in cave. I believe this to be the in cave RP explanation for alts and hybrids. You couldn't get poodles in the wild. Blue and yellow parakeets aren't found in the wild, either.

If genetics were the case, though, then wouldn't Alts that had whole generations of Alt ancestors produce Alt offspring a fair amount more often then freshly caught CB Blacks? Plus, sometimes it's oddities found in the wild that lead to the creation of new domestic breeds, although I'll grant you that it's usually the other way around

 

I also realize that hybrids are more likely to occur in captivity, but I think I've adjusted for that by suggesting that CB Hybrids be quite rare. I can go breed a dozen Water x Skywing pairs right now and I'll probably get back a third or more of the eggs as Blunas. Whereas I imagine a CB Bluna would be as rare as a CB Ice.

 

Of course, all this is going off the assumption that DC has to be 100% logical in all things, which I tend to disagree with (considering all the grief we little humans can put our giant-sized, carnivorous, intelligent dragons through... )

 

 

[RainDear]

I think alts are mutations that are very rare, just like some colorations found in captivity.

 

At any rate, I vote no on this.

[blah]

Vines and Blacks are impossibe enough to catch as CBs, I don't think it'd be very sensible to make them even more desirable.

 

For Blacks and Vines, the change from "wall of eggs" to "rare" took years, let's give those hybrids more time, okay? It worked for Stones and Pebbles well enough to not make them bothersome anymore and Geodes are the "oldest" hybrid.

 

I also find the idea of "breed only" breeds fun and I think it is great for new players who have a lot to catch up and often want CBs of everything. We all know that the biomes are constantly blocked and blocked and... even catching commons is tiresome and I think it's nice that for some breeds there is no need to stare at the cave. And stare and refresh and stare and...

[Nectaris]

Vines and Blacks are impossibe enough to catch as CBs, I don't think it'd be very sensible to make them even more desirable.

 

I think though that if this was implemented, it would make CB blacks and vines more common. Why? Because the ratio is so out of whack because of people breeding for alts. If less people bred because they could get an alt from the cave, more would show up in the cave because less were bred.

 

And really, the wall disappeared nearly the moment the eggs were changed, blacks have been rare now for years.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Nectaris