No More Chosen One, PLEASE!

[darkangel787]

@ Kadoatie

 

i'd say Tamora Pierce would be up there with you. not too many prophecies and not too many sues/stus and no chosen ones....

[Dr. Paine]

Of course the heroes are teenagers because most teenagers want to read about teenagers if they're picking up books labeled "YA". (Books put in the non-kid non-YA section have, not surprisingly, older characters.)

Pft, no. I've learned you go to children's or adult fantasy if you want to read about teenagers/people who occasionally act like people, YA if you want mindless stupid fluff. I'm one who has read out of every section, and all but a rare few manage to break the mold. Even if they 'deconstruct' the notion, the characters still suck more than a black hole.

 

There's a difference between 'main character' and 'full out Sue/Stu'- Main characters are who the story is about. They might be a little odd, powerful, whatever. And that's okay- they're the main character. They have stuff happen. But they tread into Sue territory when they are overly special for no good reason, even breaking otherwise universal laws just BECAUSE they're the main character. And Sues/Stus rarely have a personality outside of 'main character' whereas actual characters could be taken out of the spotlight and still retain themselves.

[kadoatie]

@ darkangel787

The most memorable book I've read by her is Trickster's Queen or something like that. The protagonist is ultra-talented, she doesn't have any major flaws I can think of, she can talk to people/things few other people can, and she's chosen by the trickster god. I wouldn't say it qualifies under "no stus/sues and no chosen ones".

(Although I've heard that the author does a great job with not making her characters feel Sue-ish.)

 

@ Dr. Paine

 

I don't have a good definition for YA, but most of it's written about teenage characters. That's why I said if someone wants to read YA fantasy, they want to read about teenagers.

 

Second, I understand the difference. That was my speculation as to why main characters tend to be over-powered; sorry if that wasn't clear.

Edited August 8, 2010 by kadoatie

[DragonNighthowler]

I like sorcery, but I pretty much read anything fantasy that comes around. Read Salvatore, Dragonlance, Forgotten, Bronze Chanticles, His Dark Materials, Terry Pratchet, and a long list of etc.

 

Many were nice books. A few were absolutely wonderful. A few others were a waste of tree lives.

 

It's not like I always see a Chosen One, but when I do find, I instantly hate myself for buying that book.

Nor do I always find prophecies, but these are quiet usual as well.

 

As for characters, I don't mind characters being a bit special, having some habilities and so on. But turning a character into a Deus Ex Machina (cough, Saphira, cough), please!

I know I usually speak of the same character, but that's because he's the best example. My mage is, by far, the most powerful character in the group, and yet (there are other mages, it's mainly focused around magic) the one having most trouble using his magic. If he does use the full potential of it, he's capable of pretty neat tricks, but drains him pretty quickly.

 

I like keeping my magic creatures under control, unless I'm really going for Gods. Mages, sorcerers, etc, should not be Gods.

 

Saphira in Eragon is left as a Deus Ex Machina to solve whichever situation they come around. THe whole; "Oh, I think about it and the world just changes at my will" reminded me to Mage the Ascension RPG, with the difference that Mages in it will be kicked to the Paradox pretty quickly if they try something half as spectacular as Saphira.

 

Even in fantasy, Magic needs rules to keep your characters stable, and far from becoming sues. The problem is, most of the time, newby writers specially will not use any sort of rule, thus making already potentially sue characters into full grown literary monsters.

[darkangel787]

I find it hard to write a story about Gods or Goddesses, ya know, because what happens when you try to kill one? Gods and Goddesses are like, impossible to kill off! And some stories really DO need deaths! :/

[kadoatie]

The antagonism you can have between live characters is so much more fun than moping and guilt-ing about their deaths :'P

[DragonNighthowler]

Then you get Dragonlance.

 

 

[AAurion]

I have to agree that there are too many Chosen Ones and DESTROY TEH WORLD evil guys running around. I'm trying to put together my own story and I keep having to remind myself not to fall into that

 

I mean, I get what you're saying about LotR. It makes sense, and that's kinda how I'm trying to make my story, come to think of it. The main characters can't do huge things on their own, but need the help of others. Armies. Heheh.

 

One important part of the story is a "goddess," who is actually not very powerful at all. Impossible to kill? They don't have to be. Stories do need deaths, I agree. Some of my main characters are gonna die. Can't consider killing the goddess, though. Too big a part to play.

[darkangel787]

In LOTR, or how I perceived the books, there was LOT of power that Arwen had over keeping Aragorn alive.

Just saying.

but she IS the daughter of Elrond and an elf and all...

[Teratornis]

Well, Frank Herbert's Dune suffers a bit from Chosen One Syndrome, what with Muad'Dib/Paul Atreides being this. . . prophesied savior, but frankly I don't have a big problem with it in that case. Partly because that book was so well written, and is a wonderful read in general, but also because as far as I know that's probably the first recorded case of Chosen One Syndrome. Outside of ancient mythologies, at any rate, and I don't think that really counts. After all, Dune was written/released the same year as the Lord of the Rings books, so as far as I'm concerned Herbert can get away with the whole Chosen One thing.

 

Since then, though, it's definitely gotten out of hand. Looking at my shelves now I actually can't find all that many books with Chosen One Syndrome, which should indicate just how much I dislike it. It can definitely be done well, but it's not really a good plot design to rely on.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Teratornis

[Zovesta]

Ugh, I agree with this so much. >_> I hate Chosen Ones.

[RheaZen]

I don't have many "Chosen One" books either... and the whole "teens save the earth" shtick is annoying and illogical.

 

I'd like a book in which the CO is killed off, leaving the rest of the world to try and find a way to stop whatever BB is coming around. Certainly would be more interesting.

[Zovesta]

I don't have many "Chosen One" books either... and the whole "teens save the earth" shtick is annoying and illogical.

 

I'd like a book in which the CO is killed off, leaving the rest of the world to try and find a way to stop whatever BB is coming around. Certainly would be more interesting.

You might like my story, then. =V It's about everyone, thieves, royalty, slaves, village idiots, etc, coming around and all trying to save the world as it falls to disaster. The people who end up saving the world weren't chosen - they just volunteered.

[Tetsaiga]

Going back to the LOTR topic, Frodo was never really a Chosen One. He didn't have an army at his back, he had Samwise Gamgee. A freaking 4 foot tall gardener.

 

Boromir and Faram ir's dream or whatever, it was only a dream.

 

Not to mention, when Boromir says "One cannot simply walk into Mordor", he was referring to all the ways KNOWN. He did not know about Sheila's lair, therefore, he didn't know you could walk into.

 

In the book, Frodo and Sam have to kill a few orcs, while they also have to hide from some. They almost die from thirst, and expect fully to die. Strokes of luck helped them finish the task.

 

Oh, and they had to depend on Smeagul/Gollum (stinker and slinker as Sam calls him ), who fully wanted them to die.

 

So not so much CO. Sam was just that much of a beast. 4 feet of pure AWESOMESAUCE!

 

 

On other COs, Eragon, and somewhat Harry Potter.

Eragon is just, Gary-Stu.

HP, he falls more in the category of "there are about 10 other characters in the series that are 40 times better than he is." Just look at Hermione, DUMBLEDORE(he could've kicked Voldemort's *sensor kips* at any time), Snape, and Sirius. I mean if you escape from an impenetrable prison with NO HELP, you could kill silly Voldy.

 

This is why I love the series "Ranger's Apprentice". The only extraordinary ability(if you could call it that) the main character has is just a little bit above average intelligence and reasoning and will power. And there is no "Evil force bent on destroying the world". Only wars between countries that he HELPS to solve. And keep his country safe.

 

Long post is long.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Tetsaiga

[7Deadly$ins]

Didn't the prophecy state that only Harry could kill Voldemort?

[RheaZen]

You might like my story, then. =V It's about everyone, thieves, royalty, slaves, village idiots, etc, coming around and all trying to save the world as it falls to disaster. The people who end up saving the world weren't chosen - they just volunteered.

Sounds good to me

[Tetsaiga]

Didn't the prophecy state that only Harry could kill Voldemort?

No it doesn't. It states that one cannot live while the other survives. It doesn't even mention Harry. It could've been Neville, or somebody. And it never said the boy had to KILL Voldemort. Somebody else could've.

 

JK Rowling just wanted us to BELIEVE it was only Harry .

[AAurion]

Didn't the prophecy state that only Harry could kill Voldemort?

Spoilers

 

If I remember correctly, it just said that neither could live while the other survived. Someone else could have killed Voldemort, but before that Harry had to confront him and be willing to die, so Voldemort could attempt to kill him and destroy the part of his soul attached to his.

 

So after that, anyone could have killed him, really. He was mortal, so all it would've taken was a nicely aimed Avada Kedavra

 

Edit: 'd

Edited August 11, 2010 by AAurion

[crazywargod]

Kinda. What happened was dumbledore was the elder wand master. In order to use the be the elder wands master you must beat the previous master in a duel. Well snape killed dumbledore. He didn't actually beat him so the wand was masterless..........or so they thought. Malfoy had disarmed dumbledore unknowingly becoming the elder wand's master. Dumbledore buried with the elder wand. Harry sometime after beat malfoy and took his wand from him thus making harry the elder wand's master. The elder wand refuses to kill its master, harry, when voldemort tries to kill harry with it. Harry and Voldemort fire spells and harry wins but harry naver actually kills voldemort. Voldemort just kinda died after losing the duel from his own rebounding curse.

 

Harry was not the chosen one. He was the boy who lived. Voldemort only thought harry was powerful because he live. Harry never actually had any special power. Neither was he chosen by prophecy. It was all coincidence and luck. Ron or neville could have killed voldemort

*cough*

 

 

No harry didn't let voldywart kill him to get rid of the part of voldywart's soul that was attached to him. That was only the outcome of it. Harry let voldywart kill him so as to save his friends.

 

Anyone could have killed voldywart. In the end though voldywart killed himself.

[darkangel787]

This is about the harry potter prophecy thing, my computer won't let me quote.

 

Voldemort marked Harry AS HIS EQUAL, so that was why Harry had to get him.

If he had gone after Neville instead, then Harry would have been in Neville's shoes or SOMEONE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and Neville would be the one with the scar and Dumbledore would probably not have paid much attention to harry, just marked him as some other Order of the Phoenix person (because if Harry's parents were still living they would be in the Order, and soon he would be too!) but instead it's Neville that's sort of like that, and Harry has been marked as Voldemort's equal so it's down to HIM to kill Voldemort not because hs'e GOT TO but because if he simply turned his back on the prophecy, Voldemort would still be hunting for him!

 

That's the reason.

[crazywargod]

This is about the harry potter prophecy thing, my computer won't let me quote.

 

Voldemort marked Harry AS HIS EQUAL, so that was why Harry had to get him.

If he had gone after Neville instead, then Harry would have been in Neville's shoes or SOMEONE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and Neville would be the one with the scar and Dumbledore would probably not have paid much attention to harry, just marked him as some other Order of the Phoenix person (because if Harry's parents were still living they would be in the Order, and soon he would be too!) but instead it's Neville that's sort of like that, and Harry has been marked as Voldemort's equal so it's down to HIM to kill Voldemort not because hs'e GOT TO but because if he simply turned his back on the prophecy, Voldemort would still be hunting for him!

 

That's the reason.

Voldemort only thought harry was powerful because he lived when in fact it was harry mother who saved him with an ancient spell which harry then used when he faced voldemort in the forest. He let himself die to put a charm on his friends and allies to make it so voldemort couldn't harm them. Though harry lived due to voldemort I guess because harry was a horcrux, another voldemort. ANYBODY could have killed voldemort. Harry did NOT HAVE to and truthfully he did NOT kill voldemort. Voldemort died from his own rebounding curse killing himself. So suicide.

[7Deadly$ins]

This is about the harry potter prophecy thing, my computer won't let me quote.

 

Voldemort marked Harry AS HIS EQUAL, so that was why Harry had to get him.

If he had gone after Neville instead, then Harry would have been in Neville's shoes or SOMEONE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and Neville would be the one with the scar and Dumbledore would probably not have paid much attention to harry, just marked him as some other Order of the Phoenix person (because if Harry's parents were still living they would be in the Order, and soon he would be too!) but instead it's Neville that's sort of like that, and Harry has been marked as Voldemort's equal so it's down to HIM to kill Voldemort not because hs'e GOT TO but because if he simply turned his back on the prophecy, Voldemort would still be hunting for him!

 

That's the reason.

Would Neville's mom have made the same sacrifice Lily did, though?

[DragonNighthowler]

Frankly, if it had been Neville, or Ron, or anyone else being "Chosen" by Voldemort, he or she would have still been a Chosen One.

[Fortune86]

No matter who got chosen by Voldemort, they would be the 'chosen one', because they were chosen.

[crazywargod]

No it doesn't. Harry Potter does not have that plot. The plot is more of a bibliography as it revolves around harry's life. Harry was not chosen for anything.

 

If we look at it your way me being chosen to take out the trash makes me the chosen one. Sombody getting chosen for class president makes that person the chosen one.

 

 

Harry wasn't chosen by prophecy or voldemort or dumbldore. Voldemort only went after harry on a grudge. Harry lived and took most his powers when harry was a baby. Being chosen by a grudge does NOT make him a chosen one figure.

Edited August 11, 2010 by crazywargod