Racism

[Blue Nadir]

I'm not sure about your point on switching white -> black, though, because those statements are backed up by different actions and so would mean different things. But, again, I'll have to read the links before fully replying.

In the original link, the Black I substituted was "they", meaning Whites. You don't seem to fully grasp the current political situation in South Africa, nor the history behind it, so let me put this in very simple numerical terms - Whites make up 9% of the population. No way in hell will any white person influence ANY of the things the original commenter accuse them of in their post by their voting power. White people are very much a minority in this country. Unlike other countries (the USA might be a prime example) where minorities are protected to a fashion, the South African government institutes unfair labour practices favouring one race (yes, hate to break it to you, but our Coloured* and Indian populations are also unhappy) above others which, ironically, in their application contradict our constitution. This happens to the point of rather employing someone of "the right race", than someone who can actually do the work (ANY race). This "reservation of posts" for a favoured race has happened before and was called "Apartheid". Why was Apartheid met with sanctions and outcries, while this discrimination is accepted and applauded?

 

Yes, I would, because classism is a thing here (USA), too (though I wonder if we're not offended over different things here - again, I'll have to go read those links). (Mainly here POC were forced into poverty and then there are basically regulations to keep them there and by now it's encapsulated really the whole working class. It's a whole mess of economics that just sucks and is controlled by politicians in the pocket of the wealthy. =\ )

Classism is a sad reality of ANY capitalist society and is definitely not limited to any single race/gender/religion/sexual orientation. I'm also curious to know how anyone is "forced into poverty"? Are they taken there by gunpoint and ordered to be poor? And by "politicians", are you implying white politicians? As I explained above, the politicians here are black. Why are they not helping their oppressed brethren by building the houses they promise each election instead of spending $25million of taxpayers' money on private homesteads?

 

I often say that giving someone freedom from oppression doesn't mean a thing if you don't give them the means to ACCESS these freedoms/rights. In South Africa, there are too many poor people (of ALL RACES), too few taxpayers (of ALL RACES) and too many empty promises made by crooked government officials out to feather their own nests with scant disregard for the people who voted them into power. Nothing has changed in the past 18 years, and it is unlikely that anything will change. The poor black majority is being given "bread and circuses" to divert their attention from this cold, hard fact and to keep them voting for the same party.

 

* = Just a note on South African race classifications. There are four major recognised race groups - Black (consisting of 8-9 major tribes), Whites (consisting primarily of separate Afrikaans-speaking & English-speaking cultures), Coloured (meant to describe people of mixed Malay, European & Black descent) & Indian (people of Indian descent). Very important is that "Coloured" does NOT mean "black", "person of colour" NOR a first generation offspring of mixed descent (ie have one "pure" black & one "pure" white parent). "Coloured" is a unique race and take great offence at being identified as anything else. WEIRD OBSERVATION - most African-Americans would probably fall in the "Coloured" rather than the "Black" category due to admixture with the white population.

[pikapooka]

I try and try my best to not be, but there's that little part of me that passes judgement.

[Riverwillows]

Deep down tho, I do believe many 'whites' in South Africa, still think they are superior to the "black", "coloured", and "indian" populations. And they feel they have a right to the land that their ancestors took away from the native Africans, as decreed by God in their belief system.

 

I know this, because for a while I was a cab driver, and I would pick up many a South African "white" tourist, and would get into debates with them. I heard what they think. I've read papers that have been written. And I have newly discovered relatives (black) that actually live there. First hand info.

 

Even tho this is not talked about publicly, and many "white" South Africans do pay loud lip service to the "new order", that's not what they are teaching their kids behind closed doors.

 

Apartheid never went away. It just went underground.

[Blue Nadir]

Deep down tho, I do believe many 'whites' in South Africa, still think they are superior to the "black", "coloured", and "indian" populations. And they feel they have a right to the land that their ancestors took away from the native Africans, as decreed by God in their belief system.

 

I know this, because for a while I was a cab driver, and I would pick up many a South African "white" tourist, and would get into debates with them. I heard what they think. I've read papers that have been written. And I have newly discovered relatives (black) that actually live there. First hand info.

 

Even tho this is not talked about publicly, and many "white" South Africans do pay loud lip service to the "new order", that's not what they are teaching their kids behind closed doors.

 

Apartheid never went away. It just went underground.

It is very conveniently forgotten that whites were influential in ending Apartheid. The very last time our votes mattered, we voted for a resounding YES. The 3million voters that participated in this referendum constituted most of the white population at the time.

 

I don't deny at all that such people as you describe exist (the 30% that voted NO didn't go anywhere) and I strongly condemn such behaviours and attitudes. You are, however, generalising/stereotyping. I was *not* raised that way and have in fact rejected organised religion precisely for the racist views you describe above. I was raised to respect people, regardless of their race.

 

Also, "African" is not a race. "African" is a nationality, for lack of a better word, similar to "American". *I* am a native African - I was born here, my parents were born here, their parents were too etc etc. Am I any less South African because of the colour of my skin - something I had no control over whatsoever? Is this not the basis of any -ism? The drawing of divides between "us" & "the other"?

[Svataben]

Also, "African" is not a race. "African" is a nationality, for lack of a better word, similar to "American".

Not even that, it's just about the continent. It's like being geographically European or Asian.

 

 

[pikapooka]

Can't we just say African American instead of "black" for the saje of not starting an argument?

[Slaskia]

Because the phrase 'African American' wouldn't be correct for all 'blacks' (not all blacks are from Africa....).

[KageSora]

And not all are from America--while DC IS primarily a US userbase, what about a black from the UK? Or France? Or actually from Africa? Or some other country? They're certainly not African-AMERICAN.

[Alpha1]

Why is it a big deal anyways? There's many who also say "whites".

 

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/...time-on-record/

 

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2013/05/09/hisp...ege-enrollment/

[Shienvien]

What about black people who don't consider themselves tied to Africa at all? I know some immediately think "poverty," "poor education," "HIV" or something worse as soon as the continent gets mentioned. Not exactly a good light to be seen in. (Not saying that this kind of viewpoint is right!)

 

I personally do not like to be defined by a region, either, unless it is my home-country.

[TikindiDragon]

Black people over here (and that's the term that appears on official paperwork) actually sub-divide into Black-Carribean and Black-African. Hence the normal catch-all term is becoming 'Afro-Carribean' to signify a person of that ethnicity.

[MedievalMystic]

Black people over here (and that's the term that appears on official paperwork)

 

Same here.

 

 

 

Black people, to me, are 'black' and white people to me are 'white' and that's that. I'm not going to sit around sweating bullets over regions and ethnicity and all that mess, trying to be oh so correct. I really don't care where a person is from...if they're black, they're black, if they're white, they're white.

Edited May 13, 2013 by MedievalMystic

[Fuzzbucket]

Where I REALLY have trouble are Indian-coloured people and Oriental/Japanese/Chinese-coloured people. You just can't say brown and yellow. You can't say Indian or Oriental, when many are of your own nationality. (I happen to be British and Canadian; this isn't only a US thing.) They are neither black or white...

 

Nor are dark-ish skinned Italians and Spaniards.

[Riverwillows]

Which is why racism to my mind is quite silly. We are such a melting pot on this earth, there is a fairly equal amount of every skin color possible here.

[Fuzzbucket]

Which is why racism to my mind is quite silly. We are such a melting pot on this earth, there is a fairly equal amount of every skin color possible here.

It's silly - but it exists. Until ALL OF US stamp it out.

 

That is US. WE can do this. WE are the people.

 

I am sort of very pale skinned, with faintly tan/grey overtones, on account of my tendency to anaemia. What are you (generic) ?

[Riverwillows]

My mother was black, coffee colored, she married a white man. And threw 5 very white children. I am the only one with reddish brown hair, and blue eyes tho. And it's very straight. You'd never know to look at me.

[Shienvien]

Pale white by skin-tone. People often used to as me whether I was ok when I was little and friends nicknamed me "the pale apparition." Not anemic, though - in perfect health, have gone to mountain-hiking and all, never passed out in my entire life.

[PointOfOrigin]

Blonde, blue eyes and pale enough to fit in the Scandinavia. Nobody would guess that I'm actually from Mediterranean and that I spent my whole life by the shore.

 

And now I remember one thing. In this part of the world, the only black people you see are tourists. I've literally never met someone who actually lives here. And it can be seen on people. Little kids always stare at black tourists and they get very curious, especially when it's hair in question... and if you by some chance have dreadlocks kids will poke them. Would anyone here get offended if something like that happened?

[Fuzzbucket]

And now I remember one thing. In this part of the world, the only black people you see are tourists. I've literally never met someone who actually lives here. And it can be seen on people. Little kids always stare at black tourists and they get very curious, especially when it's hair in question... and if you by some chance have dreadlocks kids will poke them. Would anyone here get offended if something like that happened?

I think not if it is children.

 

Mind you - I'm surprised they do notice. As I said further up - mine didn't see any difference between two black adopted boys and their Swedish looking brothers - and refused to believe they were adopted at first - then said "oh yes, they have curly hair"...

[TikindiDragon]

True Celt Red Hair, Blue eyes, natural skin colour, as Billy says, a kind of pale blue. I'm about as pale as they come, and I sunburn really badly.

 

Funnily enough, although it's not called racism (I think because the ethnic groups that throw red hair are now such a minority it's not considered a 'race'), there's a lot of nasty directed at people with red hair. I actually pity my niece (her's is red too) as I *know* she'll be bullied going through school.

[Nectaris]

I think not if it is children.

 

Mind you - I'm surprised they do notice. As I said further up - mine didn't see any difference between two black adopted boys and their Swedish looking brothers - and refused to believe they were adopted at first - then said "oh yes, they have curly hair"...

I have a cousin who is mixed, visibly so, and adopted and it took me forever to figure that out, that two very white people wouldn't naturally have someone with such dark(relatively) skin and eyes.

 

[Ruins]

I'm as white as white bread soaked in milk and tippex. I'm pretty Celtic, too- ash blonde hair (dyed red-purple), green-brown eyes, freckles, pale in the winter and burnt/tanned in the summer. My family's pretty much 100% white, too, we don't live in a very... diverse area. I mean, I didn't meet a person who wasn't white (apart from a black family friend) until I joined high school.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Ruins

[PointOfOrigin]

I think not if it is children.

 

Mind you - I'm surprised they do notice. As I said further up - mine didn't see any difference between two black adopted boys and their Swedish looking brothers - and refused to believe they were adopted at first - then said "oh yes, they have curly hair"...

Well, I guess it would also have to do with location. As I said, the only black people we get here are tourists. We get around 10-15 million tourists during the season and I can count on one hand how many blacks I see (and I live at one of the tourist hotspots). Asians, for example, never get any reaction out of them, mostly because there's a lot of them during season.

 

And, let's be honest, most of those kids learn from a very early age to look at everything. Most of the five years old here will know everything about their neighbors, including their relatives, pay and land that they own. It's very nit-picky and unhealthy environment.

Edited May 13, 2013 by PointOfOrigin

[Fuzzbucket]

Well, I guess it would also have to do with location. As I said, the only black people we get here are tourists. We get around 10-15 million tourists during the season and I can count on one hand how many blacks I see (and I live at one of the tourist hotspots). Asians, for example, never get any reaction out of them, mostly because there's a lot of them during season.

 

And, let's be honest, most of those kids are learnedfrom a very early age to look at everything. Most of the five years old here will know everything about their neighbors, including their relatives, pay and land that they own. It's very nit-picky and unhealthy environment.

Not a lot of black people in rural Ontario in the 70s, believe you me

 

I've also read things about kids saying their friend is "the one in the red sweater" and the mother saying "but you never said he was black"....

[Raistlin24]

Nor are dark-ish skinned Italians and Spaniards.

They count as white though. Living in Spain, I had never really noticed it much, but I can see what you mean.

 

@PointOfOrigin: My hair is nothing special, but I wouldn't get offended if some kid tried to touch it. Many little kids are very curious about everything. There was a little kid on the bus once who kept trying to touch my glasses. He was very young and I guess that nobody in his family had glasses and found them quite interesting.

 

While I'm not as dark-ish skinned as some of my friends, I'm on the darker spectrum of white. With dark brown hair and very dark brown eyes.