Racism

[ShinyTomato]

I'm usually used to the racism. Just sometimes, ever so often, something gets under my skin and I want to cry or break something over someone's head.

 

Like when I have to explain to my beautiful daughter that the reason that her best friend is no longer allowed to play with her is because said best friend's mother found out what race she is on my side and then called me and spent an hour telling me what scum of the earth I was and telling me to give my beautiful little girl who I delivered after hours of labour and with multiple broken ribs, to whoever I stole her from.

 

Sometimes I hate people.

[The Fluffy Raptor]

I'm usually used to the racism. Just sometimes, ever so often, something gets under my skin and I want to cry or break something over someone's head.

 

Like when I have to explain to my beautiful daughter that the reason that her best friend is no longer allowed to play with her is because said best friend's mother found out what race she is on my side and then called me and spent an hour telling me what scum of the earth I was and telling me to give my beautiful little girl who I delivered after hours of labour and with multiple broken ribs, to whoever I stole her from.

 

Sometimes I hate people.

 

Take a look at all these fish from the Great Barrier Reef. They don't seem to mind

what they look like. They get along no matter what.

 

Unlike humans, who love to segregate other humans out of ignorance.

 

One of my supporting reasons why humans are dumber than animals.

[7Deadly$ins]

Most of those fish are schooled together based on what species they are. You basically just showed a picture of fish New York -- it doesn't mean every one's getting along. I believe it's the yellow fish especially that will respond aggressively to even their own species if they aren't from the same school. I could be thinking of a different animal though.

[LittleIslander]

I do not condone racism but sometimes because I'm from a small island community stereotypes and assumptions slip in sometimes, I dont mean it in a harsh way but :3 It's something I'm trying to change.

 

However when I'm done south in I see racism a tonne more, some people do it to personally hurt others not just the occasional mild mix up. >.<.

[The Fluffy Raptor]

Most of those fish are schooled together based on what species they are. You basically just showed a picture of fish New York -- it doesn't mean every one's getting along. I believe it's the yellow fish especially that will respond aggressively to even their own species if they aren't from the same school. I could be thinking of a different animal though.

This is in The Great Barrier Reef.

 

Are the fish creating death camps for the powder tang fish? No.

Are the fish teasing any other fish? No.

[Nectaris]

Are the fish teasing any other fish? No.

Actually, there likely IS harassment going on. Just because in a snapshot you see everyone getting along doesn't mean that is what is going on. We are not seeing body language, the way they are moving and reacting to each other and such.

 

This is not to say anything about racism itself, I just don't like the over-romanticism of nature when nature is in reality quite brutal.

[Kai]

wouldn't be concerned with racism if i could just eat people i don't like

[The Fluffy Raptor]

Nature is brutal, but I feel that some himans are more brutal.

 

 

Think of a properly set-up aquarium.

[Nectaris]

Nature is brutal, but I feel that some himans are more brutal.

 

 

Think of a properly set-up aquarium.

The keyword is properly. You have to find the right fish, for not all fish will get along with each other. You put the wrong fish in and it might just get killed, or kill off the rest of your fish.

 

And your keyword there is some. Yes, there are horrible people out there, but they are far outnumbered by good people. And there are horrible acts in nature too, dolphins rape, chimps wage war, etc.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Nectaris

[Obscure_Trash]

Interesting, but lengthy topic, so I've only perused the last few posts.

 

First of, let me say that I'm South African and *GASP* White. I see that a lot of people in this thread focus on racism as an act of discrimination against non-white people (for lack of a better word) and seem to totally disregard that racism can be experienced by white people as well. For me, racism is any act of discrimination against any person based on their race.

 

South Africa is the only country in the world where Affirmative Action (AA) is implemented and enforced to protect the MAJORITY against a minority. As a young white person in this system, I constantly have to battle political ideals and demographics in order to get a job or advance to a higher level.

 

On a more personal level, White South Africans are often demonised and used as scapegoats when services are not delivered to the now-simmering masses that are part of an ever-growing welfare state. This suits our Government as all they have to do is cart out the old Apartheid ghost to secure votes and remain firmly in power.

 

Despite Government's best efforts to instill and maintain racial distrust, people my age are integrating very well - not because we all want to be the same, but because we embrace each others' differences. We laugh when we DO unwittingly conform to our racial stereotypes and try to understand why the different cultures do as they do. I'm very opposed to dumbing everything down to a common denominator and really prefer our melting pot approach.

Just wondering what your response to this would be?: warning for lots of language [possible tw for apartheid, racism, poverty, rape] http://25.media.tumblr.com/8ef5c4a02fd6509...igv4o1_1280.png and http://24.media.tumblr.com/544e891659200d8...igv4o2_1280.png And someone else commented: "70% of South Africa’s wealth is still in the hands of white people, in a population that is 90% black (i.e the blacks, Indians, coloureds & chinese)."

 

I'm North American, I haven't studied or been to South Africa (or Africa in general), so I can't really comment myself, only weigh the experiences of people who are speaking up.

 

I will say, though, that I do not think whites can experience racism. They can certainly experience discrimination, prejudice, bullying, and harassment, but due to the global powers and structures that have held up a white supremacy, they can't experience racism. I do prescribe to the definition of racism that it is discrimination and prejudice backed by large institutionalized social structure. I know not everyone does, but that's the circle I lie in. This is not to say things can't differ locally (for example, most the world is patriarchal, but there are some matriarchal societies in history and I think still today), but on average globally, no I don't agree whites can experience racism.

 

I'm usually used to the racism. Just sometimes, ever so often, something gets under my skin and I want to cry or break something over someone's head.

 

Like when I have to explain to my beautiful daughter that the reason that her best friend is no longer allowed to play with her is because said best friend's mother found out what race she is on my side and then called me and spent an hour telling me what scum of the earth I was and telling me to give my beautiful little girl who I delivered after hours of labour and with multiple broken ribs, to whoever I stole her from.

 

Sometimes I hate people.

 

People are awful. I absolutely will never understand why people think things like this are okay to do and to think. =\

 

~

 

Has anybody not heard about Kiera Wilmot yet? A young black woman was experimenting with science and it didn't have the reaction she expected. Even though she did not act with malicious intent, even though the principal "doesn't" believe she acted with malicious intent, there was no property damage, and no persons were injured, she was expelled, arrested, and is being tried as an adult for having and discharging a weapon on school grounds. This...is not okay.

 

If you can and you care, please:

Sign the petition

 

And contact Polk County Law Officials, the school Principal, and the School Administration. Contact Info Can be found below:

 

Bartow High School Principal Ronald Pritchard

Address: 1270 S Broadway Ave Bartow, FL 33830

EMAIL: Ronald.Pritchard@polk-fl.net

PHONE:(863)- 534-7400 Fax: (863)534-0077

 

Polk County Superintendent: Dr. John Stewart

Address: 1915 South Floral Avenue, Bartow, FL 33831

Phone: (863) 534-0521 Fax: (863) 519-8231

Email: john.stewart@polk-fl.net

 

Polk Regional Juvenile Detention Ctr

ADDRESS: 2155 Bob Phillips Road, Bartow, FL 33830

TEL: 863-534-7090

FAX: 863-534-7024

EMAIL:

pio@polksheriff.org

 

Warning for lots of language This is what her life will be if she is convicted: http://strugglingtobeheard.tumblr.com/post...convicted-felon

Edited May 3, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Shienvien]

Any discrimination occurring based on race is racism. Whites can be subjected to it just as easily as others.

[KageSora]

Any discrimination occurring based on race is racism. Whites can be subjected to it just as easily as others.

This really depends on the definition, which changes from group to group.

 

There are two definitions of racism that I've seen.

• Any discrimination based solely/primarily on race
• Discrimination based on race that has the backing of society/years of oppression/how the system works/etc.

But, like I said, it's going to vary depending on what circles you run in which term you use to mean what.

Edited May 3, 2013 by KageSora

[Obscure_Trash]

Any discrimination occurring based on race is racism. Whites can be subjected to it just as easily as others.

I feel like you either didn't read my post or misunderstood it. When I said "I prescribe to" I was acknowledging that the dictionary definition was different than the definition many of us now go by.

 

(But, hey, I don't put much in the dictionary sometimes. I'm a little unclear on why muggle was added as a word or if the usage it cites cropped up before or after HP and it doesn't define friend zone as a derogatory term.)

 

Unless you were simply disagreeing with me.

[Shienvien]

In part I was disagreeing, yes... I can't even count in how many cases I have seen racism against whites thoroughly dismissed with the argument of 'but they are white, they cannot be discriminated against'. Yes, yes they can and are. That racism against the dark-skinned might be more common does not change the fact. I feel that dismissing racism in any form is wrong.

[Obscure_Trash]

In part I was disagreeing, yes... I can't even count in how many cases I have seen racism against whites thoroughly dismissed with the argument of 'but they are white, they cannot be discriminated against'. Yes, yes they can and are. That racism against the dark-skinned might be more common does not change the fact. I feel that dismissing racism in any form is wrong.

I will say, though, that I do not think whites can experience racism. They can certainly experience discrimination, prejudice, bullying, and harassment

 

They can experience discrimination but not racism, in my own opinion. Most people I know who follow the same definition as I do also agree that white people can experience prejudice and discrimination but not racism.

 

I've personally not run into anybody who didn't think white people couldn't experience neither discrimination nor racism, but hey, there's somebody out there to fit any belief we can think of.

 

I subscribe to the definition that I do because I believe that otherwise, the definition tries to downplay what POC actually go through by trying to make it all about white people. I know this isn't what you're saying, but on the dictionary side, I do often run into the people who, anytime you bring up any -ism go 'but what about this privileged party, they get hurt, too' trying to take away the focus on the institutionalized power and inherent societal privilege that people are trying to talk about.

[Shienvien]

Matter of preference, I admit. I don't think marginalizing *any* kind of discrimination is right, and so I prefer the same term for the same kind of phenomenon, no matter who it is against. Discrimination both against the dark-skinned and whites is racism, both misandry and misogyny are sexism, etc.

[KageSora]

I think part of the problem is that not everybody is capable of comprending the difference between "generic" -ism problems and the -ism problems that are institutionalized and clearly backed by the system.

 

A lot of people DO go "Oh, well, blacks don't have it that bad because one time this black person was totally mean to me just because I'm white and it's the same thing" when, even though it's racial discrimination it isn't the same when you factor in the social privileges and such.

 

But, on the flip side, you DO sometimes get PoC who argue that they can treat white people like trash JUST for being white and that it's perfectly okay and not a bad thing because "it's not racism" because discrimination based on race is A-okay as long as it's targeting white people. Or, it's not racism if it targets another PoC of a different race and that it's only racism if it targets their race. (But, those also tend to be the people who try to pull the race card to get out of anything or to get anything, IMO. I don't like those people. I don't like when people pull their "lack of privilege" card, whatever it may be (race, sex, sexuality, gender identity, religion, etc.), to just try to screw others over/be jerks/get out of doing something they CAN do but don't feel like doing/etc. I feel like they undermine their entire group when they do that, and make it harder for their group to be taken seriously when fighting for equality.)

 

Personally, I use -isms to describe "generic" instances of that -sim and institutionalized/systematic -isms to describe those instances where the -ism is clearly being backed by a system that supports one group over others and where societal privilege (in racism white privilege, in sexism male privilege, etc.) comes into play.

 

-isms DO hurt everybody, though. Even the privileged parties. The parties with privilege are just hurt considerably less, are generally still are better off than those without privilege even at their worst, and have not been hurt for as long as the unprivileged group(s). They are clearly not suffering anywhere NEAR as much as those who lack their privilege, and the two cannot really be equally compared.

 

You can't say "I'm white and this [insert non-white race of your choice here] person hated me because I was white once so I totally know what all [insert same race as before here] people go through." Yes, you can be hurt by it and get a small taste of what they've gone through--but it's just that, a tiny taste of what they face regularly. You can't honestly say you know what they face because you don't.

 

It's like saying "Well, I scraped my arm pretty badly once. So I totally know the pain experienced by those people who are unlucky enough to have their anesthesia wear off during surgery."

 

 

I'm sure most people would agree that the above pain example is silly and not a true comparison at all. But a lot of people lose that perspective when it comes to things like sexism, racism, heterosexism, cissesxism, etc.

 

It's important to discuss ending discrimination in any form, IMO--be it against an unprivileged party or a privileged party. It's not cool either way. It's just, obviously (or it should be obvious), much more of a problem for the unprivileged party(ies) than the privileged party(ies).

 

 

 

Ahhhh,.... Lemme know if I'm not making sense, it's 4:30am and I'm avoiding finishing a paper I technically should have had done yesterday, ahahah... (In my defense, I'm a lazy student, so I have no defense. )

Edited May 3, 2013 by KageSora

[Shienvien]

You make perfect sence, Kage, and I generally agree. I'll note, though, that there are cases where a white *individual* might experience racism as bad or worse as the average PoC. The general white population will not, but one of them who happens to - for example - end up living in the wrong region due to poverty - might.

[Nectaris]

I tend to think that the belief that whites cannot experience racism is borderline racist in and of itself.

 

To me it not only trades one prejudice for another, it dismisses and lessens any racism/discrimination that does happen to whites, and down the road has the potential to cause HUGE problems.

 

And also, it depends too much on the situation. For there are places where minorities have the power, like other countries, or in a city as mayor, or governor, or even a judge. In a situation where say a minority judge ruled unfairly against a white person purely because they are white, would it not be racism, or does the fact that they don't have power everywhere invalidate it? Your example about how much wealth whites hold doesn't mean much to me. It only hurts those whites that do not hold much wealth, for now they are still hated by the masses and then they get no outside support because of THEIR prejudices.

 

And out of curiosity, what about white hating on white? What I mean is that white spans across several countries and heritages, and not all get along. Although I am unsure if this still applies(meaning I don't know if anyone still maintains such prejudices), but I know the English and the Irish have their history. Or even the treatment of European immigrants to the US and such. Is none of this racist because they are also white?

Edited May 3, 2013 by Nectaris

[TikindiDragon]

This really depends on the definition, which changes from group to group.

 

There are two definitions of racism that I've seen.

• Any discrimination based solely/primarily on race
• Discrimination based on race that has the backing of society/years of oppression/how the system works/etc.

But, like I said, it's going to vary depending on what circles you run in which term you use to mean what.

Hmm, as far as I am aware the first one is the correct one for 'racism'. The second would actually be 'institutional racism'. Colloquial useage aside it doesn't suddenly stop becoming racism if it's not got state backing. The n word would still be racist if, for example, you used it in Zimbabwe (where there is now institutional racism against whites).

[KageSora]

You make perfect sence, Kage, and I generally agree. I'll note, though, that there are cases where a white *individual* might experience racism as bad or worse as the average PoC. The general white population will not, but one of them who happens to - for example - end up living in the wrong region due to poverty - might.

True, just like there are PoC individuals who will experience considerably less racism than is the "average" amount experienced by people of their race.

 

I was more just talking about overall, though I do acknowledge that the situation of individuals can be better or worse than the "norm" generally experienced by their group.

 

Hmm, as far as I am aware the first one is the correct one for 'racism'. The second would actually be 'institutional racism'. Colloquial useage aside it doesn't suddenly stop becoming racism if it's not got state backing. The n word would still be racist if, for example, you used it in Zimbabwe (where there is now institutional racism against whites).

I find that most people who consider the second one "correct" are in the social justice circles--especially on Tumblr. I do understand that dictionary definitions aren't always accurate when language shifts and words change usage, and that different groups use the same words in different ways.

 

I've seen the argument "the dictionary one is a lie because it's written by white men".

[Obscure_Trash]

The dictionary is not some infallible work. Society changes the meaning of words. Words naturally shift. After listening to bloggers of color and reading books from feminists of color, I am not comfortable calling any discrimination against whites racism. I have already acknowledged that things can be different locally, but in a worldwide sense, I agree with power + prejudice = racism. I can only hope that, as was with me, what I have said stays with people and makes them think at some point down the road.

 

I would like to re-bring up Kiera Wilmot and again beg your action once more: http://raniakhalek.com/2013/05/02/prosecut...little-brother/ The state attorney who is charging 16 yo Kiera Wilmot with two felony charges having to do with having and discharging a weapon on school grounds due to a science experiment gone wrong where luckily no one was hurt, also decided not to charge 13 yo Tyler Richardson, who shot and killed his 10 year old brother with a BB gun. The state attorney made the right decision in one of these cases.

 

Kiera Wilmot’s record is now stained with an arrest and two felony charges. This could impact the rest of her life if she is convicted. I only wish Assistant State Attorney Tammy Glotfelty would offer Kiera Wilmot the same compassion she gave Taylor Richardson.

 

Tammy Glotfelty works for the Florida State Attorney’s Office in Bartow, which can be reached at:

 

Adress: 255 N Broadway Ave Bartow, FL 33830

 

Phone: (863) 534-4800

 

Message: http://www.sao10.com/contact_us.asp

 

Let’s flood them with calls, letters and messages demanding they drop the charges against Kiera Wilmot.

Edited May 5, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[TikindiDragon]

The problem with that way of defining racist is that it changes dependant on the country you are in. Like my example of Zimbabwe. The majority is black, the government is largely anti-white, there's a load of action being taken against white people. The power in Zimbabwe is all in the hands of the blacks - but calling them n** wouldn't be any less racist.

 

It's one thing having words that change dependant on situational useage. But it doesn't make sense to me to say that something would be racist in one country, but not in another simply because the government was different.

 

Racism is *any* discrimination based on race. Positive or negative, and regardless of the race in question. If race is the underlying motive - that's racism. It's not governmental, it's personal.

[Digital Decay]

I'm not sure if I'm not kind of crashing your party, so feel free to ignore me, but I'd like to add something to the 'language' discussion.

 

I'm from Germany myself and the tip-toeing around political ubercorrectness over here is really getting on my nerves. By now, it is considered to be "derogative" if I'd call someone "colored" or "dark-skinned" if I want to refer to... well, people who have a dark skin - although it's an adjective that I use to describe what I see, not an insult.

I'm still using those words though, because the only alternative I have is saying something like "Afro-American" or "African" - and that might again be an insult because the person in question doesn't consider him/herself "African" but "German", because he/she was born here, lives here and just happens to look a bit different than the majority of us.

It's even worse if I want to talk about people whose roots lie somewhere else than Germany in general - according to some political activists I'm not allowed to call them 'immigrants' because that's insulting. What...?! So, the term "People With A Migration Background" came into being some years ago, which is by now frowned upon again. It's a long lost fight, I believe.

 

In my opinion, some people need to realize that it's not the word that is derogative, as long as it's purely describing, but the mindset and the associations towards its reference.

And until that mindset has been changed and people have stopped to associate all kind of with certain ethnic groups, we will continue to discard terms that have been 'burned' and think up nicer-sounding word combinations that eventually will go the same way, because changing the label on something won't make people stop hating it and won't stop prejudice.

 

 

 

[Slaskia]

Racism is *any* discrimination based on race. Positive or negative, and regardless of the race in question. If race is the underlying motive - that's racism. It's not governmental, it's personal.

^This

 

With that in mind, I am starting to believe in 'racism begets racism'. A lot of PoC are starting to discriminate against whites in the US (especially after Obama was elected).

 

Yes, those in power (mostly whites, admittedly) often abuse it and use it to oppress and racist against those that are different from them and that's wrong. However, turning around and being racists right back is not going to help things, that will only encourage the oppressors to keep on being racist themselves.

 

If we want racism to be minimized (sadly I doubt will ever get rid of it completely), we need the oppressed to start doing 'positive' things. The Tuskegee Airmen (Second, wiki, link with more info) did a lot to improve racial relations in the US armed forces just by being the best pilots they could be and proving to their oppressors that they were just as good as they were.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Slaskia