Racism

[Red Dragonette]

Has anybody seen this article on why being a racist is bad for your health? I'm going to post it here in case anyone wants to know.

[Fuzzbucket]

Has anybody seen this article on why being a racist is bad for your health? I'm going to post it here in case anyone wants to know.

That SO explains the literal origin of the term redneck

 

And when I think how apoplectic some racists I have seen in action get - purple in the face, sweating, swollen up...

 

WOW ! Great article. I wish I thought it would have an effect....

[Obscure_Trash]

So, do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing? Part of the reason given for getting rid of it was that it was no longer needed given voter registration and turnout and was very outdated. And do not forget, this was always targeted at only a few states, so other states not included never had the protection of this law.

Bad, although it could be worse. Basically right after the case was decided, several states introduced voter ID laws that would disenfranchise black voters. (Turns out Texas still isn't allowed, but AFAIK the other states that did so are no longer prevented from doing so.) Striking down what they did hurts POC voters, elderly voters, and disabled voters. I can't find the links and quotes I had at the moment, but I can look for them if you want.

 

~

 

George Zimmerman was found not guilty of killing Trayvon Martin. Thinking of Martin's family in this time and hoping maybe the NAACP petition to the DOJ to bring civil rights case against Zimmerman results in justice.

 

~

 

Thoughts are also with Marissa Alexander, who received 20 years for firing a warning shot into the air against her abusive husband, and her children, who I'm not sure what is going to happen to them.

 

~

 

Thoughts are also with Jordan Davis and his family, who will likely not see justice either.

 

~

 

Finally, tonight, my thoughts are also with John White, another black man the justice system has failed in saying he is not allowed to protect himself or his family, and his son.

[KageSora]

I'm just so pissed off about this whole Zimmerman thing. It's just not RIGHT.

 

It's just... Wrong. I don't even have words for how wrong it is that justice isn't being done.

 

Some people are trying to argue it's not racism because he's Hispanic, but here's a great post about that (warning for some language) link.

[MasterWeavile898]

Okay, here is something I can chat about, but can someone tell me what the current discussion is? I am a bit lost.

[Alpha1]

I'm just so pissed off about this whole Zimmerman thing.  It's just not RIGHT.

 

It's just...  Wrong.  I don't even have words for how wrong it is that justice isn't being done.

 

It wasn't illegal for someone with a concealed carry permit in Florida to follow someone. The most reasonable theory is that Martin came back (he had four minutes) when he was near his father's home to start something with Zimmerman. They didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that that wasn't the case.

 

Thoughts are also with Marissa Alexander, who received 20 years for firing a warning shot into the air against her abusive husband, and her children, who I'm not sure what is going to happen to them.

 

Angela Corey oversaw that case, too. If this woman went with the plea deal, she could have only gotten 3 years. Instead she gambled, and the judge couldn't do anything because of the mandatory sentencing. She went outside, got a gun (from her car I believe), and then came back firing the gun towards a wall where the kids were at, so they didn't buy the SYG claim. She also went back to him after she was released from bail.

 

"About four months after Alexander was released on bail, on orders to have no contact with Gray, she got into an altercation with him at his home that gave him a black eye, Corey said. Alexander was arrested and charged with battery, to which she pleaded no contest.

 

Corey said that Alexander's actions -- engaging with a man of whom she claimed to be deathly afraid, and assaulting him -- "didn't show much of her being remorseful" or "being a peaceful person."

[LadyLyzar]

Did Zimmerman make a mistake? Probably. However, I believe he was doing what he thought was right. The neighborhood had a problem with burglaries and he believed TM was acting suspicious.

 

However, regardless of race, if someone who is in much better physical shape than I am is on drugs, straddling me and beating my head into the pavement, you bet I am doing to defend myself with deadly force if necessary. I don't care if they are white, black, yellow, blue, or green with purple polka dots.

 

The whole thing is sad but IMO he should have never been charged with 2nd degree murder. Being followed does not give you the right to attack someone.

 

Honestly I feel bad for Zimmerman. He was upset that TM died and was railroaded as a racist, when his past does not suggest that mindset. In addition, he's already been convicted in the minds of a lot of people, and I don't think he will ever be safe for the rest of his life.

[Fuzzbucket]

Bad, although it could be worse. Basically right after the case was decided, several states introduced voter ID laws that would disenfranchise black voters. (Turns out Texas still isn't allowed, but AFAIK the other states that did so are no longer prevented from doing so.) Striking down what they did hurts POC voters, elderly voters, and disabled voters. I can't find the links and quotes I had at the moment, but I can look for them if you want.

 

~

 

George Zimmerman was found not guilty of killing Trayvon Martin. Thinking of Martin's family in this time and hoping maybe the NAACP petition to the DOJ to bring civil rights case against Zimmerman results in justice.

 

~

 

Thoughts are also with Marissa Alexander, who received 20 years for firing a warning shot into the air against her abusive husband, and her children, who I'm not sure what is going to happen to them.

 

~

 

Thoughts are also with Jordan Davis and his family, who will likely not see justice either.

 

~

 

Finally, tonight, my thoughts are also with John White, another black man the justice system has failed in saying he is not allowed to protect himself or his family, and his son.

I'm with Sock 100%. And given all this - I hope Zimmerman at least doesn't carry a gun when he goes out at night playing at cops. The cops had already told him to stop it all. I think he should be banned from carrying at all, actually.

[Nectaris]

Bad, although it could be worse. Basically right after the case was decided, several states introduced voter ID laws that would disenfranchise black voters. (Turns out Texas still isn't allowed, but AFAIK the other states that did so are no longer prevented from doing so.) Striking down what they did hurts POC voters, elderly voters, and disabled voters. I can't find the links and quotes I had at the moment, but I can look for them if you want.

Why assume that it is an attempt to be racist though, rather than an attempt to keep voting honest? If you have a way to keep fraud from happening without asking for IDs I would love to hear it other than just the honor system. I would honestly support making a way for these people without IDs to get an ID(preferably free or very low cost) rather than making it where we can't protect voting from fraud.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Nectaris

[senyi]

NTSB Apologizes for Fake Asiana Pilot Names

 

o.o I can't believe it was aired on TV...

[Bacon_Strips]

NTSB Apologizes for Fake Asiana Pilot Names

 

o.o I can't believe it was aired on TV...

That was completely disrespectful of them to do, even if they claim they were just "joking".

[Obscure_Trash]

Did Zimmerman make a mistake?  Probably.  However, I believe he was doing what he thought was right.  The neighborhood had a problem with burglaries and he believed TM was acting suspicious.

He was a self-appointed watchman (after failing to become a cop twice) who found a kid suspicious because he was black and wearing a hoodie (unless he thought tea and skittles were the new drug run), called 911, was told by the operators to stay where he was and they would send someone to check him out, and decided not to listen and to follow Trayvon. I'm not sure whether or not it's more terrifying that he thought stalking, harassing, and murdering a black boy was the right thing to do or not.

 

However, regardless of race, if someone who is in much better physical shape than I am is on drugs, straddling me and beating my head into the pavement, you bet I am doing to defend myself with deadly force if necessary.  I don't care if they are white, black, yellow, blue, or green with purple polka dots.

 

I'm sorry, who are you talking about here? Trayvon was the only one who exhibited self-defense.

 

The whole thing is sad but IMO he should have never been charged with 2nd degree murder.  Being followed does not give you the right to attack someone.

 

But following someone gives you the right to murder them?

 

Honestly I feel bad for Zimmerman.  He was upset that TM died and was railroaded as a racist, when his past does not suggest that mindset.  In addition, he's already been convicted in the minds of a lot of people, and I don't think he will ever be safe for the rest of his life.

 

Did you know that Zimmerman was only in Florida because he was fleeing rape charges in Virginia? I have a hard time pegging a man who smiled through most of the trial as "upset" that Trayvon died. Zimmerman is a dangerous man, and it was a mistake to not put him away. I have a feeling he'll be cropping up again sometime in the future for killing another innocent black boy if the DOJ doesn't bring civil rights charges against him and win.

 

I think he should be banned from carrying at all, actually.

 

One can only hope, though I really doubt it will happen. =\

 

Why assume that it is an attempt to be racist though, rather than an attempt to keep voting honest?

 

Because it disenfranchises voters of color. Because as soon as it was overturned several states immediately introduced bills to disenfranchise voters they didn't want voting because they wouldn't vote for them (ie POC). Because voting is already stacked in unfair and racist ways (gerrymandering). Because you don't overturn a bill that protects from racism because "we've solved racism" then allowing states to prove that the only reason they hadn't passed racist bills was because the VRA bill was holding them back from doing so.

 

If you have a way to keep fraud from happening without asking for IDs I would love to hear it other than just the honor system. I would honestly support making a way for these people without IDs to get an ID(preferably free or very low cost) rather than making it where we can't protect voting from fraud.

 

Voting fraud isn't actually a huge issue on the side of voters. There is a huge issue with voter fraud on the side of the candidates and their parties, though.

 

NTSB Apologizes for Fake Asiana Pilot Names

 

o.o I can't believe it was aired on TV...

 

Oooh, yeah, I saw that and forgot to post about it. Completely disgusting that someone would use a tragedy to play a racist joke.

Edited July 14, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Nectaris]

Because it disenfranchises voters of color

 

How? Again, I don't see how asking for people to prove who they are is racist. If these people don't have ready access to ID, then that says that it should be easier for them to obtain ID, not that ID shouldn't be asked for.

 

Voting fraud isn't actually a huge issue on the side of voters. There is a huge issue with voter fraud on the side of the candidates and their parties, though.

 

But it is an issue, however, and ignoring it because it might inconvenience someone doesn't help anything. You haven't come up with a potential solution, but instead told me "it isn't a problem", if you don't like the current proposal, come up with an alternative that achieves the same goal without being racist in your eyes.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Nectaris

[Zovesta]

Maan, I came in here just to see if anyone had posted the whole rape thing. I can't help but feel that if we swapped races here this would be a whole 'nother story. =P

[MasterWeavile898]

NTSB Apologizes for Fake Asiana Pilot Names

 

o.o I can't believe it was aired on TV...

That's pretty horrible that someone would do that, I can't believe the news station didn't catch on.

 

 

Quite surprisingly, I have been the target of several racist attacks, surprisingly because I have a bit of most racial groups in me somewhere, though I appear white. Back when I was like 8, I was playing on a playground and there was this black girl, I tried to be friendly and her response was, "Mom says not to talk to white people, they're racist." that one always gets me, because I had always assumed only brown people (at the time everyone was brown or tan to me) were the only ones who had people oppress them for their color.

 

In terms of my race:

My grandfather was black, my other grandfather had a large amount of Native American in him, my grandmother on one side is mostly Welsh, I don't know about the other grandmother. I know that I have some Middle Eastern and Hispanic (or whatever the name is, I think Hispanic is actually an ethnicity) on my mother's side. And my mother also has some Native American too, just not as much as my dad. So yeah, lots of different stuff in me.

[Syaoransbear]

Maan, I came in here just to see if anyone had posted the whole rape thing. I can't help but feel that if we swapped races here this would be a whole 'nother story. =P

Could you provide a link? There's a whole lot of rapes out there.

[dark_kitsune]

who found a kid suspicious because he was black and wearing a hoodie

The 911 call was heavily edited. They left out the part where the dispatcher asked him if the kid was white, black or hispanic...they only posted Zimmermans reply - he's black. Yeah, I'm sure they didn't do that to make him look like a racist pig or anything.

 

The "news" never, ever reports all the facts in cases like this. This trial and others like this are nothing more than a way for news stations to boost their ratings and divert our attention from much more serious issues. NSA? National debt? Sustained conflict in the middle east? I could go on.

 

The news has become nothing more than a dog and pony show. As soon as I found out the call recording was edited and then seeing pretty much every picture of Trayvon on tv was from when he was a cute little kid...I tuned out.

[Obscure_Trash]

How?  Again, I don't see how asking for people to prove who they are is racist.  If these people don't have ready access to ID, then that says that it should be easier for them to obtain ID, not that ID shouldn't be asked for.

 

 

 

But it is an issue, however, and ignoring it because it might inconvenience someone doesn't help anything.  You haven't come up with a potential solution, but instead told me "it isn't a problem", if you don't like the current proposal, come up with an alternative that achieves the same goal without being racist in your eyes.

http://colorlines.com/archives/2013/02/sup...lby_holder.html

http://colorlines.com/archives/2012/10/vot..._id_laws_1.html

http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2012/...rove-him-wrong/

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/26/elec...ions-of-voters/

http://www.aclu.org/voter-suppression-america

http://harvardmagazine.com/2012/07/voter-suppression-returns

 

The only type of fraud that a strict photo ID rule would actually prevent is voter impersonation fraud (I go to the polls pretending to be you), and, in fact, voter impersonation fraud is exceedingly rare. In Indiana, where the Republican-dominated legislature passed one of the first new ID laws in 2005 (on a straight party-line vote), there had been no known instances of voter impersonation in the state’s history. In Texas, a strict ID law was enacted last year, although the 2008 and 2010 elections gave rise to only five formal complaints about voter impersonation (out of 13 million votes cast).

 

http://dukesandwonks.org/2012/04/20/voter-...-income-voters/

 

Requiring all voters to present state-issued photo identification at the polls, voter ID laws would disproportionately affect minority, elderly, and low-income populations, all of whom are less likely to hold such identification. In order to obtain a photo id one must have the time to go to the Department of Motor Vehicles, a way of getting there, a birth certificate, and money to cover the fee. As Texas Congressman Charles Gonzalez explains, “All three groups are less likely to own a car, so they don’t need a driver’s license. They’re much less likely to travel abroad, so a passport is a luxury they cannot afford. Securing a photographic ID is also harder for them.”

 

I haven't offered a solution because you don't fix what ain't broken. And if there is something to fix the solution isn't to push measures that restrict citizens from voting. We have plenty of issues in the realm of voting including giving the wrong date to vote to those who speak Spanish and others mentioned in one or two of the articles above. What we need to do is fix those and empower the votes of the USA citizens, not try to disenfranchise many of them.

 

The 911 call was heavily edited. They left out the part where the dispatcher asked him if the kid was white, black or hispanic...they only posted Zimmermans reply - he's black. Yeah, I'm sure they didn't do that to make him look like a racist pig or anything. dry.gif

 

Warning for language http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326...-zimmerman.html

 

It's not like it's a big secret that the dispatcher asked him. That Zimmerman noticed he was black also isn't the problem. It's that he found a kid suspicious because he was black.

Edited July 14, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Zovesta]

Could you provide a link? There's a whole lot of rapes out there.

Sock already linked it but here. Sorry for not being clearer! Though, from what I hear, Slate isn't even all that reputable so...

[philpot123]

I'm sorry, who are you talking about here? Trayvon was the only one who exhibited self-defense.

 

Clearly the prosecution didn't prove that beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

 

To be honest, I'm tired of hearing opinions based on media hearsay. 90% of the people who claim to be angry about the outcome can't even tell me what the essential elements of the charge of 2nd degree murder consist of. The only people who know exactly what happened that day are the two who were involved in the altercation, of whom only one is still living. The only people who heard every fact presented in the case were the jury members, and there are certainly none of them here. Regardless of what happened that night or who was at fault, the prosecution failed to meet their burden of proof. There was no injustice done in the courtroom.

Edited July 14, 2013 by philpot123

[Fuzzbucket]

The only people who heard every fact presented in the case were the jury members, and there are certainly none of them here. Regardless of what happened that night or who was at fault, the prosecution failed to meet their burden of proof. There was no injustice done in the courtroom.

In your opinion. You weren't there either.

[Obscure_Trash]

Sock already linked it but here. Sorry for not being clearer! Though, from what I hear, Slate isn't even all that reputable so...

Then we could also talk about:

Zimmerman's past charges of domestic abuse and using force against a cop: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/27...ce-officer?lite

http://racerelations.about.com/b/2012/03/3...of-violence.htm

Or his history of calling 911 to report suspicious activity by black males: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012...mplete-log.html

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327...ll-history.html

Or that he applied to be a cop (twice) and wasn't admitted both times (wonder why...): http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3027317/posts

 

Clearly the prosecution didn't prove that beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

The jury was made up of at least five white women (and only one Hispanic woman) on the defense of a white passing man (in the murder of a black boy) who is alleged to have denounced his Hispanic heritage (although a lot of Hispanic people consider themselves white anyway since Hispanic is usually used to denote someone from Spain, where a lot of people just consider themselves white). We can't just ignore how race played a factor in this.

 

There was no injustice done in the courtroom.

 

Whether or not this is true, there was a huge injustice done to Trayvon, his family, and the whole black community, who has just been sent the message that their lives mean nothing, that their blackness is inherently threatening, and that being black is an acceptable reason for someone to find them suspicious and murder them.

[philpot123]

In your opinion. You weren't there either.

I made no factual claims about the incident. A jury of peers found him not guilty, because the prosecution did not prove the essential elements of the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. That's how the judicidial system works and should work. To paraphrase Blackstone, better that ten guilty men walk because a prosecutor could not meet his high burden than that one innocent man be convicted for a crime he didn't commit. We may not always agree with the outcome in controversial cases, but that's how it works.

 

Sock, you're making a factual/legal claim of "murder" that the evidence didn't support.

Edited July 14, 2013 by philpot123

[siliconrose]

I wasn't holding my breath on a conviction. Based on the evidence presented in the media (while clearly a subset of the available evidence), manslaughter was a possibility, but 2nd degree murder was pretty unlikely.

 

It's possible that Zimmerman committed murder and got away with it. Sadly, this happens. If he did, I just hope that he doesn't do it again.

[TikindiDragon]

I made no factual claims about the incident. A jury of peers found him not guilty, because the prosecution did not prove the essential elements of the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. That's how the judicidial system works and should work. To paraphrase Blackstone, better that ten guilty men walk because a prosecutor could not meet his high burden than that one innocent man be convicted for a crime he didn't commit. We may not always agree with the outcome in controversial cases, but that's how it works.

 

Sock, you're making a factual/legal claim of "murder" that the evidence didn't support.

Yeeeees. Just to clarify here that doesn't meen you will be tried by your peer group - which one you expect to mean people of roughly the same age and social standing. It means anyone that isn't landed gentry or a politician. My other half has done jury service, and he said he'd spoken to people who had made their minds up on a person's guilt before they'd heard any evidence at all ("He looks guilty").

 

The problem is legal intricacies go waaaaaaaaaay over the heads of most people that will end up doing jury service. So to a certain extent the evidence itself doesn't matter unless it's really obvious, because there's a good chance the jury simply won't understand what you are telling them. They'll either have taken one look at you and decided 'guilty', or they'll have taken one look at you and decided 'not guilty'.

 

Personally I'd rather have my fate decided by a judge than by a jury of my so-called 'peers'.