Specify 'only CBs' on 'Breed Limits' Help page

[HeatherMarie]

This gets brought up every so often and it's just been mentioned again in TLQ. The Breed Limits page, while *showing* and *meaning* only CB dragons, does not actually say that the limits are only for CBs. 

 

 

This is extremely confusing for newer players or players returning after a long absence. It's misleading in multiple ways, the most obvious being that it may show you at your 'limit' and therefore you shouldn't be able to pick up more of that breed, but that's actually not true at all because the limit is only for CBs. The other thing that's misleading (which I'd never thought about before it was brought up in TLQ), if a player doesn't know this page only refers to CBs they may wonder why their *bred* holiday/v-day/etc dragon isn't being counted towards these limits. 

 

I didn't see a thread specifically about this, although it's been mentioned recently in Grammar Patrol.

 

 

[KageSora]

Definitely support--just a few words added would clarify it greatly and reduce confusion, so I don't see any reason this shouldn't be changed.

[Shadowdrake]

+1 since there are no non-CB breeds limited by scroll. Trees and GoNs only come in CB, and holidays as we know are only limited when CB.

[Jazeki]

Support this! It is especially confusing for new users around the holidays. 

[GhostMouse]

Support. The on site info should be both clear and accurate.

[UnicornMaiden]

Support

[Stormcaller]

I believe this dates back to the days before we were able to obtain older holiday eggs in the cave.  If so,  it needs to be updated.   Support.  

[Shadowdrake]

Since holidays are coming up soon, I'm bumping this.

[StarlightLion]

The way that's worded is super vague and confusing, and I both speak English as my first language and know how holiday limits work Big support from me (heck, I'll even rewrite it myself for simple copypasting if need be)

[sorenna]

Support!

 

I suspect that the "given out" wording is meant to imply caveborns (which are kinda 'given out' to us from TJ/the site, as opposed to produced by ourselves or other users) but that's not as intuitive as it could be.  A little rewording, and a simple "These limits do not apply to bred dragons" added to the end, would make things much clearer.

Edited October 12, 2022 by sorenna

[ACDragonMaster]

I notice on mine at least, it only lists GoN and leetle tree, even though I have CBs of all the holidays that have CB limits.  Wouldn't it be best if the breed limits page listed both the "absolutely limited" breeds (i.e. GoN and tree) and also stated if you're at your CB limit for the holidays, too?  It'd take some rewording of the explanation, but if it's possibly gonna be done anyway might as well cover all the bases at once...

[DragonLady86]

It does, during those holidays.

[HeatherMarie]

3 hours ago, ACDragonMaster said:

I notice on mine at least, it only lists GoN and leetle tree, even though I have CBs of all the holidays that have CB limits.  Wouldn't it be best if the breed limits page listed both the "absolutely limited" breeds (i.e. GoN and tree) and also stated if you're at your CB limit for the holidays, too?  It'd take some rewording of the explanation, but if it's possibly gonna be done anyway might as well cover all the bases at once...

 

3 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

It does, during those holidays.

 

What DragonLady86 said, yes. But also I'm *pretty* sure it *did* used to show holidays year-round on the limits page and it was changed for some reason. Personally I think it'd be much more helpful for planning for holidays ahead of time if we could see them listed on the limits page before the holiday actually starts.

[Fuzzbucket]

It did show them - at holiday times. They aren't showing now because Hallowe'en doesn't have a CB limit. Bet you they show at Christmas.

[KageSora]

46 minutes ago, Biel said:

There should be no limits in the first place, so no support. 

 

I mean, that's an ENTIRELY different suggestion that needs its own thread.  And has already been shot down.  I suppose something could have changed in 4 years, but TJ is on record saying that as old CBs have returned limits will not be changed.  You could try to make another topic about it to see if TJ still feels the same, I suppose.

 

This suggestion is "assuming CBs will always--or at least for the foreseeable future--remain limited, should the limits page specify that it is a CB not total limit?"  By not supporting the idea because you'd prefer an entirely unrelated suggestion you're saying "No, while we have CB limits--which is likely forever--it should NOT specify"

[Moriaty]

On 10/31/2022 at 6:15 AM, Biel said:

There should be no limits in the first place, so no support. 

 

I think you're misunderstanding what this thread is for completely.

 

As for the suggestion of the thread, I kind of think something like "you will not be able to grab any eggs affected by the limit", instead of just saying CB eggs would be better. I do agree that the current description is confusing and needs to be changed to something better, anything. But breed limit is also not only for holidays. They could potentially be put on certain breeds in the future for non-cb eggs too, so straightforwardly saying "CB egg" seems a bit bold...idk if I'm thinking about this too much

[KageSora]

5 hours ago, Moriaty said:

As for the suggestion of the thread, I kind of think something like "you will not be able to grab any eggs affected by the limit", instead of just saying CB eggs would be better. I do agree that the current description is confusing and needs to be changed to something better, anything. But breed limit is also not only for holidays. They could potentially be put on certain breeds in the future for non-cb eggs too, so straightforwardly saying "CB egg" seems a bit bold...idk if I'm thinking about this too much

 

It needs to specify somewhere, though, for eggs with a CB limit.  Otherwise users may assume they can't grab anymore bred holidays because they obtained ther 2 CB limit.  Leetle Trees and GoNs can only exist as CB therefore its a bit of a moot point at this time that non-holidays can be limited as well.

 

If any breeds that are limited in total are ever added it could always be amended then but as it is just saying "you will not be able to grab any eggs affected by the limit" is no more clear than it is right now.

[HeatherMarie]

16 hours ago, Moriaty said:

"you will not be able to grab any eggs affected by the limit",

 

But how will people know what eggs that sentence is referring to? That doesn't actually explain *what* is being limited any better than what we currently have. If it shows certain breeds on the page as breeds with limits, and it says 'eggs affected by the limit', that would imply that eggs from the breeds shown have that limit. All eggs from that breed. CB needs to be specified somewhere.

 

edit: Just a side note, this suggestion does not in any way endorse or support the current breed limits we have. This is all about making text more understandable, and nothing at all to do with keeping or changing limits.

Edited November 2, 2022 by HeatherMarie

[Moriaty]

20 hours ago, KageSora said:

 

It needs to specify somewhere, though, for eggs with a CB limit.  Otherwise users may assume they can't grab anymore bred holidays because they obtained ther 2 CB limit.  Leetle Trees and GoNs can only exist as CB therefore its a bit of a moot point at this time that non-holidays can be limited as well.

 

If any breeds that are limited in total are ever added it could always be amended then but as it is just saying "you will not be able to grab any eggs affected by the limit" is no more clear than it is right now.

 

9 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

But how will people know what eggs that sentence is referring to? That doesn't actually explain *what* is being limited any better than what we currently have. If it shows certain breeds on the page as breeds with limits, and it says 'eggs affected by the limit', that would imply that eggs from the breeds shown have that limit. All eggs from that breed. CB needs to be specified somewhere.

 

edit: Just a side note, this suggestion does not in any way endorse or support the current breed limits we have. This is all about making text more understandable, and nothing at all to do with keeping or changing limits.

 

Yes, CB needs to be specified somewhere, which (apparently I forgot to mention) I thought should be in the table below.  Was just trying to account for the possibility of potential future breed with non-cb limits. Unless TJ puts final word on "no we will never have non-cb breed limit" there's still a possibility (which by the way is something I'm not a fan of either), and that was why I suggested to make it specially vague.

 

(That darn course on maintainability I took last semester is really growing on me, I legit looked at this and an alarm bell rang in my head saying "no you can't just put it down as if it's always just going to be cb unless you're so certain that there will never be non-cb limit, otherwise the requirement might change in the future and that's more work and more confusion" xD. Anyways it was just a nit to the suggestion, completely agree that the current text leads to misunderstanding, something needs to change.

[MissK.]

Honestly, the easiest way would just be to specify which limits refer only to CBs next to the number in the 'limit' column for that breed. But does the term cave-born even exist on site? The only instance that I can think of is in filters (#CB) but that doesn't explain anything to new users or people not using the forum who might not know the term. So it might need to be spelled out as cave-born, or even have a separate explanation about it somewhere on the site itself. Still, that's for TJ to figure out. Either way I think a clarification is very necessary, and I also think all the limits for holidays should be visible constantly. Perhaps a separate table for "out of season" things, and the one we have for what's currently available?

[KageSora]

5 hours ago, Moriaty said:

 

 

Yes, CB needs to be specified somewhere, which (apparently I forgot to mention) I thought should be in the table below.  Was just trying to account for the possibility of potential future breed with non-cb limits. Unless TJ puts final word on "no we will never have non-cb breed limit" there's still a possibility (which by the way is something I'm not a fan of either), and that was why I suggested to make it specially vague.

 

(That darn course on maintainability I took last semester is really growing on me, I legit looked at this and an alarm bell rang in my head saying "no you can't just put it down as if it's always just going to be cb unless you're so certain that there will never be non-cb limit, otherwise the requirement might change in the future and that's more work and more confusion" xD. Anyways it was just a nit to the suggestion, completely agree that the current text leads to misunderstanding, something needs to change.

 

But, again, the whole problem NOW is that it's vague.  If you just care about never having to update it again in case we get a limited bred egg it makes more sense to just leave it as-is.

 

If there were a breed introduced that has a bred-inclusive limit TJ would already need to add that coding to track it alongside the CB-only tracking unless he changed those breeds to also have total limits.

 

From there, as both stats would already be tracked, it would require adding an extra column to the table to indicate total breed limit.

 

Quite frankly anything else would be confusing because the alternative is having mixed data displayed to the users in the same column and that's going to lead to confusion no matter what.  Best to simply have one column for CB limits and then to add another for total should that ever arise.

 

Future-proofing and leaving things vague to account for future changes can be useful, but not when it means hindering present improvements on the mere possibility of something (especially when you have no idea if that possibility is even statistically significant enough to be worth considering or not).

[_Charky]

Support. I agree that the page probably just missed out on an update- the current text is exactly in line with how the cave used to operate.

[HeatherMarie]

20 hours ago, MissK. said:

and I also think all the limits for holidays should be visible constantly

 

Oh yes please. Am I remembering right that they *did* used to show year-round at some point? I could've sworn... But yeah, I definitely think it would be helpful to show any limited breeds on the breed-limit page all the time, in fact since we are talking about making things more clear to users I think that would help a *lot* in that department. I haven't noticed anyone posting about it, but I'm sure it must cause some confusion to newer players if they look at the breed limits page and see two breeds (GoN and Leetle Tree), that might lead them to assume those are the only breeds limited. And if they come back during a season-event and suddenly see a lot of other breeds on the page that weren't there just a few weeks ago... Yeah, in the interest of making things more understandable for all, all limited breeds should be shown all the time. 

 

I don't really understand the idea of keeping it vague and possibly confusing on the off-chance that *someday* we might possibly have non-cb breed limits (has TJ ever mentioned that, ever?).   Personally I just think it'd be easier and quicker for everyone to understand to just tweak the text that's already there to specify cave-born, instead of adding it to the tables for every single limited breed. And if the top text doesn't say anything about what exactly is included, and all the listed dragons say cave-born, that could be confusing too? If individual breeds are separately listed as cave-born limited, that implies that some breed(s) exist that are limited but not in a cave-borne way. 

[Moriaty]

On 11/3/2022 at 6:46 AM, KageSora said:

Best to simply have one column for CB limits and then to add another for total should that ever arise.

 

That's kind of what I wanted to say, show the "cb" limit separately in the table and update the description on top to be more correct (and not just say "breed limit" because bred limit implies cb+lineaged, which I think is not vague but instead incorrect). lmao sorry about my (possibly) confusion logic

[ACDragonMaster]

On 11/4/2022 at 12:34 AM, HeatherMarie said:

 

Oh yes please. Am I remembering right that they *did* used to show year-round at some point? I could've sworn... But yeah, I definitely think it would be helpful to show any limited breeds on the breed-limit page all the time, in fact since we are talking about making things more clear to users I think that would help a *lot* in that department. I haven't noticed anyone posting about it, but I'm sure it must cause some confusion to newer players if they look at the breed limits page and see two breeds (GoN and Leetle Tree), that might lead them to assume those are the only breeds limited. And if they come back during a season-event and suddenly see a lot of other breeds on the page that weren't there just a few weeks ago... Yeah, in the interest of making things more understandable for all, all limited breeds should be shown all the time.

 

I could be wrong, but I THINK it did used to be that way, and it changed when the holiday limits were changed from "total limit" to "CB limit".  But seeing as they DO show up during the holidays in question, it seems odd that they aren't simply there all the time...