Mistra BSA: Nurture

[Silverwatermist]

32 minutes ago, VixenDra said:

 

On the other hand, sleeping is a good way to regenerate in general, it speeds up healing, sickness or pain recovery, etc. and refuels energy, not just uses it up. Lack of sleep puts into a reduction of functionality, good sleep increases it.

This is a great explanation that makes me see the reasoning more clearly! 🙂 Thanks for pointing that out to me.

Also, I still agree that this new Nurture BSA not stacking with Incubate is perfectly reasonable. Honestly, the whole reason I even play DC is because it's not a snappy fast game all the time. You have to be fast to grab rare eggs, but when it comes to raising dragons, there's often wiggle room... you can forget, live your life for a few hours/days, and check in later and usually catch if your eggs are sick. (I know that's not always the case, but compared to faster-paced games, there's more wiggle room). I'm tired of every other game and media moving 1000 miles per hour and requiring constant check-ins. I don't think DC was ever intended to be fast, it's a "waiting game" by design... , so I can see why TJ might be against mechanics that speedup  the game too much.

[Lost_Unicorn]

3 hours ago, Silverwatermist said:

I don't think DC was ever intended to be fast, it's a "waiting game" by design...

DC is pretty much an Idle game: it makes emphasis on a (very) simple gameplay and not having you play it in long or consistent sessions.

Maybe I am not doing something that other people are doing, but I am surprised platinum trophy owners feel like their 24 slots are not enough (because I think that's what this thread really is about) to enjoy the game - with AP, trading and an ability to not put all your eggs into one time-frame basket at once taken into account. You are supposed to be limited and forced to make decisions about your slots from time to time (or all the time - whatever). It is a game about achieving long(er)-term goals and satisfaction, after all.

It makes me wonder how DC used to be in the beginning: it used to be that, but now it is this - and people still claim it's not enough. Where would be the point of "enough things to do"? Would increasing slots be bad for the game? I don't know, but maybe TJ has his reasons not to do it.

[camelia2]

7 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I'm very curious where you got the 'most people play a game for 3-4y' idea. Is there any data to actually back that up? I sure as heck wouldn't play a game for that long if it was boring or too slow, as you seem to believe DC is. The longest I've ever played *any* online game other than DC was about 2 years, I believe, and not every day like I do with DC. 

 

DC is not, and has never been, a 'gotta catch 'em all!' type of game.

 

Tbh is from personal experience, friends around me and game with classaments and seniority mechanics (where you can actually see when someone disapears gfrom the game)

 

Erm...is a colectables game...it is exactly what it is...the simple fact that things like encyclopedia or trophy 'unlock' tells you so. 

 

If you grab AP instead of CB you are still limited by hatchi lock 2.904 atm but could be 4.368... even more drastic diference. But you forget AP is basically trash. Apart from rare treasures, they are UNWANTED. People want CBs or their own bred eggs for projects and lines (statistic: see trading. Messes are unwanted) so most still fall on my numbers.

 

The main reason other games have time boundaries in place is economical reason. You want faster? You spend real money on boosters and instants. DC has no (and never will according to TJ) benefit from making you wait this long and could very well give us less frustration of 'grow allready'

 

1d won't speed things TOO much, but just enough to make many happy. After all it is not only about the time limit but about ilogic. 'Why I can speed an egg but not hatchi?!' We need some equality here

[Fuzzbucket]

8 minutes ago, Lost_Unicorn said:

DC is pretty much an Idle game: it makes emphasis on a (very) simple gameplay and not having you play it in long or consistent sessions.

Maybe I am not doing something that other people are doing, but I am surprised platinum trophy owners feel like their 24 slots are not enough (because I think that's what this thread really is about) to enjoy the game - with AP, trading and an ability to not put all your eggs into one time-frame basket at once taken into account. You are supposed to be limited and forced to make decisions about your slots from time to time (or all the time - whatever). It is a game about achieving long(er)-term goals and satisfaction, after all.

It makes me wonder how DC used to be in the beginning: it used to be that, but now it is this - and people still claim it's not enough. Where would be the point of "enough things to do"? Would increasing slots be bad for the game? I don't know, but maybe TJ has his reasons not to do it.

 

As a platinum player - I am fine with my egg slots I complained when I was at gold, because 8 makes it so much easier to manage lineages. But I totally agree about how the nature of the game - that's exactly why I stay with it. I can't be bothered with games that are an eternal RUSH. Life in general is too fast - many sociologists have pointed out how damaging that is. This is great for stress relief. Do what you want, when you want, at the speed you want - no pressure. (Except over holidays of course !)

Edited February 10, 2021 by Fuzzbucket

[HeatherMarie]

5 hours ago, camelia2 said:

Tbh is from personal experience, friends around me and game with classaments and seniority mechanics (where you can actually see when someone disapears gfrom the game)

 

Erm...is a colectables game...it is exactly what it is...the simple fact that things like encyclopedia or trophy 'unlock' tells you so. 

 

If you grab AP instead of CB you are still limited by hatchi lock 2.904 atm but could be 4.368... even more drastic diference. But you forget AP is basically trash. Apart from rare treasures, they are UNWANTED. People want CBs or their own bred eggs for projects and lines (statistic: see trading. Messes are unwanted) so most still fall on my numbers.

 

The main reason other games have time boundaries in place is economical reason. You want faster? You spend real money on boosters and instants. DC has no (and never will according to TJ) benefit from making you wait this long and could very well give us less frustration of 'grow allready'

 

1d won't speed things TOO much, but just enough to make many happy. After all it is not only about the time limit but about ilogic. 'Why I can speed an egg but not hatchi?!' We need some equality here

 

One of the best things about DC for many users is just how many different ways you can play the game. You (general 'you') don't *have* to only pick up CBs, or make pretty lineages, or spend unnecessary time naming dragons, or hunt the AP if you think it's 'trash'.... There are many, many different ways to play this game. Some of us *love* messies, as evidenced by the simple fact that people pick up those AP messies and even ask for messies in trade (often to freeze). 

 

From a purely 'business' view, ie looking at DC as a product that people use, it is 100% a fine strategy to space things out in such a way that it requires some time and patience to accomplish the things a user wants to do. It does no good for any business if everyone gets everything they want too fast and then leave because they are done collecting. Long ago, the basics of DC (including things like sickness and the fact that an egg/hatchie usually needs one final 'view' to push it into maturing) encouraged people to keep coming back to check on their dragons and interact with the game. The fact that it generally takes awhile to build up an army of the breeds you like or to make a pretty lineage is good for the game in this sense. 

 

Of course, this is really just me attempting to explain what I've seen and experienced playing this game for over a decade. I think a hatchie 'incubate' is a great idea and would help with many scenarios, though I also think it's completely reasonable that it not stack with egg-Incubate. Actually I kind of feel there are probably breeds better suited to this than Mistras, simply because the Mistras description seems to show them in more of a passive role, singing to help hatchies sleep... I know there are other breeds with a more direct 'care for' type description. (Though my brain is blanking on specific examples!)

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I'd like this, and I'm ok with it only being for non-incubated hatchies, if a compromise must be made.

 

A hover over on ineligible hatchlings could say something like "this hatchling is under another dragon's care"

[Guillotine]

I'd like this; 99% of the time I don't really need the hatchling space so that wouldn't be why I use it, but it would very much help the rare times it actually comes up.

 

I'd also be totally fine with it not being stackable with incubate; usually my problems with hatchi-lock only occur with unincubated dragons anyway.

[Wymsical]

I dunno how much I'd personally use it since I don't tend to super lock myself very often, but I know a lot of people lamenting about space (especially a hatchling bottleneck) in regards to trying to juggle their lineage projects, new releases, and what have you. Even if it cannot stack with incubate, a hatchling version would be a huge boon. It would also be great for when people grab a lot of low time eggs, or for some of the breeds where you can't incubate them at all in order to get certain variants. Hatchling incubate would be less powerful than egg incubate anyway, since you wouldn't be able to do stuff like how you can get someone with a ton of incubates to incuhatch eggs for you (edit: I guess this is assuming it would be like incubate where it wears off when it leaves the scroll, I feel like logistically it would be similar here too though since it's no longer around the dragon that would be nurturing it). The sheer number of breeds and the massive rise in popularity of lineage building has made the hatchling bottleneck a pretty real and constant problem for some people.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Commander Wymsy

[Lost_Unicorn]

4 hours ago, Commander Wymsy said:

Hatchling incubate would be less powerful than egg incubate anyway, since you wouldn't be able to do stuff like how you can get someone with a ton of incubates to incuhatch eggs for you

Eggcubate loses value from low-time eggs, while hatchcubate only gains more. Therefore eggcubate is only better if you don't use AP and trading, and hatchcubate being better otherwise. Some people have already stated they would rather have hatchcubate instead of eggcubate because of that.

[Wymsical]

31 minutes ago, Lost_Unicorn said:

Eggcubate loses value from low-time eggs, while hatchcubate only gains more. Therefore eggcubate is only better if you don't use AP and trading, and hatchcubate being better otherwise. Some people have already stated they would rather have hatchcubate instead of eggcubate because of that.

I suppose it probably depends on what a person guns for. For me, personally, egg incubate will always be more powerful. Code hunting from the cave and NDs do it for me. Like I said, I don't perpetually lock myself, so that's kind of how it is from my perspective.

[dragongrrl]

9 hours ago, Lost_Unicorn said:

Eggcubate loses value from low-time eggs, while hatchcubate only gains more. Therefore eggcubate is only better if you don't use AP and trading, and hatchcubate being better otherwise. Some people have already stated they would rather have hatchcubate instead of eggcubate because of that.

 

I am currently happily hatchie-locked and would go nuts if there was no incubate for the eggs. I can always pick up lowtime CBs and EvenGen checkers from the AP and hatch them but if I didn't have incubate, I would continually need to wait for the egg-lock to hatch before I could hunt again.

 

I'll take hatchie-lock (24 slots) over egg-lock (8 slots) any day.

 

I wouldn't mind a hatchie incubate/nurture, but please not at the expense of the incubate for eggs.

Edited February 19, 2021 by dragongrrl
additional note

[PokeCat]

3 hours ago, dragongrrl said:

I wouldn't mind a hatchie incubate/nurture, but please not at the expense of the incubate for eggs.

 

I just want to clarify, this would NOT be the case! Nurture would not replace incubate! It would be another option. You either incubate your egg for more egg slots, or nurture for more hatchie slots! You don't give up one for the other. So The suggestion isn't to remove incubate completely. You just would not be able to nurture hatchies that were incubated as eggs.

[Keileon]

Support, particularly for making it unstackable with Incubate. 5 days total isn't that long, and it helps the whole Cantor/Siyat/Xol issue where you can't incubate them if you want a certain variant.

[dragongrrl]

18 hours ago, Keileon said:

Support, particularly for making it unstackable with Incubate. 5 days total isn't that long, and it helps the whole Cantor/Siyat/Xol issue where you can't incubate them if you want a certain variant.

Excellent point here! I will support this!

[Kaityn]

I just want to chime in here as well and say I'd fully support allowing my hatchies that I can't (or don't) incubate to grow a bit faster. In addition to the Cantor, Siyat, and Xol dragons, I also have times where I'm so busy with life, I forget to incubate, or I want to avoid any issues with sickness so I might avoid incubating certain eggs as well; either of those situations, I'd find a nurture ability useful!

[MissK.]

I already posted here before but just a small addition regarding TJ's old statement that "except for a few niche cases (like Siyats, which are relatively new, or needing to stretch the timer to the wire for e.g. a trade), there's never a reason to not use incubate". I don't think it's a few niche cases; in fact most of my gameplay nowadays revolves around trades and helping with a friend's wishlist. That means that I absolutely have reason not to incubate (or nurture in this case) to make sure there's enough time to get offers or until my friend has space, and there are probably more people who experience the same. It would be extremely useful to have an incubate for hatchlings in my opinion, and by no means would it be the same as changing all the timers to be one day shorter.

[Keileon]

18 hours ago, MissK. said:

I already posted here before but just a small addition regarding TJ's old statement that "except for a few niche cases (like Siyats, which are relatively new, or needing to stretch the timer to the wire for e.g. a trade), there's never a reason to not use incubate". I don't think it's a few niche cases; in fact most of my gameplay nowadays revolves around trades and helping with a friend's wishlist. That means that I absolutely have reason not to incubate (or nurture in this case) to make sure there's enough time to get offers or until my friend has space, and there are probably more people who experience the same. It would be extremely useful to have an incubate for hatchlings in my opinion, and by no means would it be the same as changing all the timers to be one day shorter.

• Siyats, which only need Incubate for green variants and otherwise Incubate is useless to them
• Cantormaria, which cannot have Incubate used on them if you want the pink or orange ones
• Xols, which change color when Incubated so that you cannot have an incubated blue one
• Bounced Neglecteds, which rely on the Incubate going away
• AP time under 3 days ie during a holiday
• AP time under 4 days, which it commonly is
• Intending to trade the egg
• Waiting for whoever you're giving the egg to have space
• Getting said egg when the timer is already under 3 days
• Finding a hatchling that hatched in the AP

These are not niche cases. Most of them are uncommon, but they're far from niche.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Keileon

[MissK.]

Exactly. There are plenty of cases by now when an egg can't be incubated because of variants etc, or we just don't want it to be because the longer time is convenient to us. So an (unstackable with incubate) action for hatchlings would be plenty useful, and once again not a given that it will be used for every case.