Keep Platinum Trophy Egg/Hatclhing Limit once earned.

[Autopilot]

Just what it says. Keep the Platinum Trophy Egg/Hatclhing Limit once earned. I was pairing down dragons numbers on my scroll to make them more manageable. When I hit below 1000 I was put back on a gold trophy and lost slots. If you went to the trouble to earn it, you should be able to keep it.

[Fuzzbucket]

I can't see why. If you choose to lower your numbers, you don't have the number of dragons required for that trophy. That applies - and always has - to every trophy there is. It is a choice made, to reduce numbers to below any trophy level. If we want to keep a trophy - we need to keep the dragons it requires.

[random_dragon_collector]

I'm strangely split on this.  I agree with Fuzzbucket's point, but I also think that a "trophy" is something you earn.  Once you've earned it, you keep the prize.

[Fuzzbucket]

Can you imagine the confusion of newer players who can't see why someone with fewer dragons than they have themselves has a trophy when they don't ?

 

But as we can EASILY keep the thing by not dipping below the level, I really can't see why it's an issue.

 

Nowhere does it say it is EARNED though; it's all about REQUIRED:

 

[Astreya]

Personally, I agree with Fuzzbucket - the trophy for dragon numbers IMO is an "as is" thingy.  I have purged my Scroll several times by now, so I can understand the need to free dragons that don't fit onto the Scroll any more, but I understand the trophies more as a "filling level indicator" that allows for certain things - i.e. if you have 50 litres of fuel in your tank you can go farther than with 25 litres of fuel.

[DragonLady86]

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I can't see why. If you choose to lower your numbers, you don't have the number of dragons required for that trophy. That applies - and always has - to every trophy there is. It is a choice made, to reduce numbers to below any trophy level. If we want to keep a trophy - we need to keep the dragons it requires.

 This. I actually refrained from posted when I saw this topic earlier (before it had any replies) because this was my exact thought and I actually thought everyone would agree with OP.   Raise a few and get your trophy back. Doesn't take that long.

[Jazeki]

I'm leaning towards agreeing with Fuzz here. If you don't have the required number of dragons, you shouldn't have access to the benefits of having a platinum trophy. This creates confusion (as mentioned) and gives users an unfair advantage over other players with lower trophy levels.

 

On that note, why just the platinum trophy? By this logic, we might as well just get rid of trophy limits all together. 🙄

[random_dragon_collector]

4 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Can you imagine the confusion of newer players who can't see why someone with fewer dragons than they have themselves has a trophy when they don't ?

 

But as we can EASILY keep the thing by not dipping below the level, I really can't see why it's an issue.

 

 

Yeah--good point.  Totally side with you now!

[pinkgothic]

I find myself a bit confused by the reaction this forum has to this suggestion.

 

So, while I've got about 6500 dragons and thus have no strong feelings about this for my personal situation, I'm basically going to side with Autopilot on this. The trophies are, depending on how one looks at it, a reward for playing that much Dragon Cave, or a mark of "maturity" with the site, i.e. "you've raised this many dragons, so now we trust you to raise x of them simultaneously". The number of dragons "gained" (if we were to want to rules-lawyer, which I don't, one could argue it's not even claiming they ought to be kept) is used as proxy for this.

 

Neither site loyalty nor experience go away just because someone releases some dragons. "I want to make my scroll more manageable" strikes me as a perfectly legitimate reason to release a large number of dragons that doesn't call either of those things into question.

 

Having to keep one's level of dragons over whatever amount of dragons one wants to actually keep on one's scroll while catching new ones, releasing them in batches of 8 just so you don't get a hit to your carrying capacity makes no semantic sense to me. Other badges don't disappear or revert, either; to me, at least, it makes perfect intuitive sense that someone who gained a platinum trophy would not lose it ever again.

 

I'm also not convinced it would confuse people any more than "this person's scroll has no adult dragons on it at all, how can they have a platinum trophy?" would - which is how things look like when someone sets their scroll to display only growing things. That doesn't seem to cause any issues, either.

[Ruby Eyes]

27 minutes ago, pinkgothic said:

Other badges don't disappear or revert, either

How would you even change the conditions any other badges are tied to? Do you lose all your Easter eggs? Do you undo your christmas cooking? Once the event ends, the badge is set.

I don't think event badges can be compared to trophies in this regard.

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, pinkgothic said:

I find myself a bit confused by the reaction this forum has to this suggestion.

 

So, while I've got about 6500 dragons and thus have no strong feelings about this for my personal situation, I'm basically going to side with Autopilot on this. The trophies are, depending on how one looks at it, a reward for playing that much Dragon Cave, or a mark of "maturity" with the site, i.e. "you've raised this many dragons, so now we trust you to raise x of them simultaneously". The number of dragons "gained" (if we were to want to rules-lawyer, which I don't, one could argue it's not even claiming they ought to be kept) is used as proxy for this.

 

The trophy listing says specifically that the privileges that it provides are given for the number of dragons REQUIRED. Nothing about maturity or being a "reward"for playing "that much". Simply something with privileges that you get when you own x number of dragons (not used to own, not have raised in the past).

 

I see it pretty much like having a bank account which pays you x% interest if you have $1000 on deposit, and Xmore% interest  +free travel insurance if you have over $5000. If you go below the $5000, your interest will drop and you lose the free insurance.

[Serotina]

I don't have a platinum yet and likely won't for a while longer despite joining late 2018. I actually went through and cleaned up my scroll recently - dropping me by about 150-200 dragons.

 

If the trophies worked as suggested above, I would have delayed cleaning my scroll until I passed the 1000 dragon limit. I then would have done a massive clear out, likely dropping back well into the Gold range while keeping the Platinum rewards. The Platinum trophy loses all sense of purpose if you keep the reward without the dragons. New players may feel less encouraged to grow their scroll with dragons they enjoy, and more likely to grab as many eggs as possible as fast as possible just to clear those goals. With the proposed changes, there is no reason to cultivate my scroll to appear the way I want until after I hit that 1k mark.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Serotina

[Jazeki]

6 hours ago, pinkgothic said:

 

 

I'm also not convinced it would confuse people any more than "this person's scroll has no adult dragons on it at all, how can they have a platinum trophy?" would - which is how things look like when someone sets their scroll to display only growing things. That doesn't seem to cause any issues, either.

I'm sure people are confused about that, just not vocally. 

 

Regarding the confusion, it boils down to being unclear about what limits are in place. Let's say I'm a platinum user. I've decided I want to get rid of all my lineaged dragons. I drop down to a gold trophy level, but because I had a platinum already, I get to keep my 8 egg slots and 24 growing hatchie spaces. Meanwhile, Bob is a regular gold user because he has not raised enough dragons for a platinum. We are both gold users.  Bob is right to be confused as to why I would have extra egg and hatchling slots while he can't. 

 

Users shouldn't be granted arbitrary privileges that other users can't have simply because they had a platinum trophy.  The scroll count trophies are tied to the number of dragons on your scroll, not how loyal or experienced you are with playing DC. A really  savvy dragon collector can hit the higher trophy levels in a month. It doesn't mean they've been playing the game for years or even fully understand it. There are plenty of confused trophy-holding newbies around and old users who've left and returned after long absences only to discover a trophy system in place. 

 

 

[Stormcaller]

9 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

The trophy listing says specifically that the privileges that it provides are given for the number of dragons REQUIRED. Nothing about maturity or being a "reward"for playing "that much". Simply something with privileges that you get when you own x number of dragons (not used to own, not have raised in the past).

 

I agree with Fuzzbucket too.  Required means that you need to have that number.  It's just that simple.

[HeatherMarie]

17 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I can't see why. If you choose to lower your numbers, you don't have the number of dragons required for that trophy. That applies - and always has - to every trophy there is. It is a choice made, to reduce numbers to below any trophy level. If we want to keep a trophy - we need to keep the dragons it requires.

 

16 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Nowhere does it say it is EARNED though; it's all about REQUIRED:

 

 

I'm very much with Fuzz (and others) on this. I can see the reasoning behind keeping it in regards to 'experienced player' and 'knows how to take care of them' and such, but it's made perfectly clear that the trophy levels are *not* 'once upon a time I had this number of dragons'. The trophy levels are very obviously about how many (non-growing) dragons are on your scroll, ie *required*. You are *required* to *have* that number in order to have that trophy. If you don't have that number, you don't have the trophy, what you *used* to have doesn't matter. 

 

There are other ways to make your dragons more manageable than just tossing them off your scroll. Sort all your unwanted dragons at the back of your scroll. Use groups to keep track of which ones you want to breed or want to do anything with. Attempt zombies with them (though fail zombie attempts will result in the dragon leaving your scroll, it would be a lot slower and most likely wouldn't easily lead to trophy demotion the way simply releasing does). 

 

4 hours ago, Jazeki said:

 

Users shouldn't be granted arbitrary privileges that other users can't have simply because they had a platinum trophy.  The scroll count trophies are tied to the number of dragons on your scroll, not how loyal or experienced you are with playing DC. A really  savvy dragon collector can hit the higher trophy levels in a month. It doesn't mean they've been playing the game for years or even fully understand it. There are plenty of confused trophy-holding newbies around and old users who've left and returned after long absences only to discover a trophy system in place. 

 

YES.

 

[Niya]

1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

I'm very much with Fuzz (and others) on this. I can see the reasoning behind keeping it in regards to 'experienced player' and 'knows how to take care of them' and such, but it's made perfectly clear that the trophy levels are *not* 'once upon a time I had this number of dragons'. The trophy levels are very obviously about how many (non-growing) dragons are on your scroll, ie *required*. You are *required* to *have* that number in order to have that trophy. If you don't have that number, you don't have the trophy, what you *used* to have doesn't matter. 

 

Yes, obviously this is how scroll limits work, but the suggestion is to change that. I don’t think having platinum-level privileges is an arbitrary award, because why should it matter the amount of dragons currently on a player’s scroll if that limit was once reached?

 

My play-style is that I collect dragons that I like, and arrange them on my scroll in a way I find appealing. I’ve raised many, many dragons during my time here. Wanting the benefits of a platinum trophy shouldn’t dictate someone’s play-style. I don’t want several hundred dragons I don’t care for on my scroll. Why does that mean I shouldn’t have higher limits like another player who may not be as selective when it comes to the dragons they raise? Why veto this suggestion when its implementation is unlikely to impact your own playing experience?

[Fuzzbucket]

9 hours ago, Jazeki said:

I'm sure people are confused about that, just not vocally. 

 

They certainly are. I am a mentor and it comes up from time to time. Not least in terms of trading. "They only have 500 dragons so I didn't offer because I could see they had 8 eggs so they were locked - but how come they have 8 eggs anyway ? Why don't I get to have 8 ?"

 

2 hours ago, Niyaka said:

Yes, obviously this is how scroll limits work, but the suggestion is to change that. I don’t think having platinum-level privileges is an arbitrary award, because why should it matter the amount of dragons currently on a player’s scroll if that limit was once reached?

 

My play-style is that I collect dragons that I like, and arrange them on my scroll in a way I find appealing. I’ve raised many, many dragons during my time here. Wanting the benefits of a platinum trophy shouldn’t dictate someone’s play-style. I don’t want several hundred dragons I don’t care for on my scroll. Why does that mean I shouldn’t have higher limits like another player who may not be as selective when it comes to the dragons they raise? Why veto this suggestion when its implementation is unlikely to impact your own playing experience?

 

Why not simply make sure you have 1000 dragons.  With the number we have now, a mere 5 of every breed would do it Sure some breeds you can't have 5 - but the principle holds.

 

Not everything in the game has to be about my own playing experience. Very many suggestions made here would not affect my experience - that doesn't mean I would like them all to happen.

 

As Serotina says:

 

Quote

The Platinum trophy loses all sense of purpose if you keep the reward without the dragons. New players may feel less encouraged to grow their scroll with dragons they enjoy, and more likely to grab as many eggs as possible as fast as possible just to clear those goals. With the proposed changes, there is no reason to cultivate my scroll to appear the way I want until after I hit that 1k mark.

 

(Yes we had all noticed that the suggestion was to change that. That is precisely why we are posting our views on such a change.)

 

 

[Jazeki]

9 hours ago, Niyaka said:

 

why should it matter the amount of dragons currently on a player’s scroll if that limit was once reached?

 

Why does that mean I shouldn’t have higher limits like another player who may not be as selective when it comes to the dragons they raise? Why veto this suggestion when its implementation is unlikely to impact your own playing experience?

I have enough dragons for a platinum badge 8 times over. Having this be implemented would not affect me unless I decided to release thousands of my dragons. 

 

But, I still see no reason to keep a trophy that is tied to a certain scroll requirement if you don't have the number of dragons on your scroll. What does this do? It's not a participation trophy, like event badges. It's directly tied to how many dragons are on your scroll at a given time.

 

Removing the trophy limit, like others have said, would take away yet another incentive to play--at least for me. Why should I or other users even bother collecting if I don't have to actually do anything to keep the platinum trophy slots once I hit the required number of dragons? I've been here since 2009. I've raised a lot of dragons. I know how to play. If we take away trophy restrictions and leave the platinum benefits, it's just rewarding seniority at that point. I can't even say it's rewarding hard work, because once someone hits that thousandth dragon, that's it. Am I doing anything to earn the badge with my many dragons? No. 

 

Again, if I released all my dragons except for a select few and dropped to even a bronze badge, you can be sure someone would be upset that I still had platinum trophy rewards--extra slots for breeding, raising, or catching--while they had none. Think about how this would work out during a holiday event (like Halloween)  when I'm sitting on potentially 8 limited edition dragons at any given time and they're still struggling to get their 4 or their 5 before the event ends. The longer we're here, the more we tend to  brush that sort of thing aside. Sure, this would greatly benefit my play style (and a lot of others who have platinum), but it would hurt others. 

[Fuzzbucket]

41 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

Again, if I released all my dragons except for a select few and dropped to even a bronze badge, you can be sure someone would be upset that I still had platinum trophy rewards--extra slots for breeding, raising, or catching--while they had none. Think about how this would work out during a holiday event (like Halloween)  when I'm sitting on potentially 8 limited edition dragons at any given time and they're still struggling to get their 4 or their 5 before the event ends. The longer we're here, the more we tend to  brush that sort of thing aside. Sure, this would greatly benefit my play style (and a lot of others who have platinum), but it would hurt others. 

 

That's a VERY good point about holidays.

[ValidEmotions]

23 hours ago, pinkgothic said:

I'm also not convinced it would confuse people any more than "this person's scroll has no adult dragons on it at all, how can they have a platinum trophy?" would - which is how things look like when someone sets their scroll to display only growing things. That doesn't seem to cause any issues, either.

I was just about to point this out, thank you.

 

20 hours ago, Serotina said:

New players may feel less encouraged to grow their scroll with dragons they enjoy, and more likely to grab as many eggs as possible as fast as possible just to clear those goals. With the proposed changes, there is no reason to cultivate my scroll to appear the way I want until after I hit that 1k mark.

I'm an old player and I still have the tendency to just grab whatever I see in order to replenish my scroll numbers after I went and purged some 600+ dragons from my tally, dropping me from Platinum to just above the Gold minimum. 😕 So, regardless, there are going to be people doing exactly that.

 

I'm in the middle ground about this, as well. Yes, trophies are things you earn and, by that concept, it makes sense to keep them. For example: you play a professional sport, trained a long time for it, and got first place in a competition. But then, say, you voluntarily stop playing for several years, growing rusty. Then you start training again and join the next competition but only get 3rd place. You still have your first place trophy--no one's taking that away from you just because you stopped playing the same as before.

 

I'm leaning in support of Autopilot here, honestly. People have and are working for their trophies. It takes time. And over time, our personal goals, ideas, and intentions for our scrolls change. I don't see why the trophies we earned should be taken away just because our goals have changed and the scrolls we built at the time no longer match them.

[Fuzzbucket]

As has been pointed out before, though - it isn't an "earned" thing; it is a numerical requirement. 

[Herk]

Wow I found a topic I disagree with Fuzzy on

 

I think it shouldn't apply only to platinum though, but to all trophies. Either I am under the impression that it's a reward I earn for collecting/growing stuff [vs owning them] or not and the argument holds equally for all trophy levels.

 

Neither way is more arbitrary than the other and I really don't see how it's MORE fair if I can collect 8 eggs now vs after a scroll clean-up. From the beginner's perspective I can take double the number they can and I highly doubt any feeling of unfairness would go away or grow stronger whether I purged my scroll or not.

 

It WOULD require a slight rewrite of the trophy table to match the changed rules but that's not really a problem.

 

Any such rule would lead to questions from time to time but you can't really avoid that - that's what TLQ and mentors are for. If we wanted to avoid questions from newbies, there are a LOT of things that we would need to kick that ARE in place right now

 

To me it's neither here nor there, I won't purge like 90% of my scroll for sure but I remember being mightily confused when I released two messies RIGHT after making it to gold and losing that again (only lasted a day or so). Because the word TROHPHY was far more prevalent in my mind than requirement. I used to read it as a "requirement to first GET/earn a trophy" not as "requirement to HAVE that trophy". Maybe it's because I'm not a native speaker but so are A LOT of people around here.

 

Part of me thinks this suggestion would be a nice change (if applied to all) but my feelings about this aren't all that strong (despite what this wall of text might imply).

[Ruby Eyes]

10 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Why not simply make sure you have 1000 dragons.  With the number we have now, a mere 5 of every breed would do it Sure some breeds you can't have 5 - but the principle holds.

We already have 247 breeds. Wait for 3 more breeds to be released and you need only 4 per breed (plus 1 extra somewhere because you can have only 3 GoNs.)

[Herk]

1 hour ago, Ruby Eyes said:

We already have 247 breeds. Wait for 3 more breeds to be released and you need only 4 per breed (plus 1 extra somewhere because you can have only 3 GoNs.)

 

 

Just a side note - not everyone plays Pokemon around here  (I do of course but I digress)

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

I didn't get that. 

 

But yes - I allowed 5 for things like GoNs, prizes and the like.