Keep Platinum Trophy Egg/Hatclhing Limit once earned.

[DragonLady86]

5 hours ago, cbussiere said:

I didn't know this was a thing. What happens if you drop to gold while you have 8 eggs? Do you have to release one, or can you just not obtain new eggs until you only have 6?

 

 

It would not affect what you currently have but you would be locked until under your current limit. This is one of only 2 ways to get above limits temporarily. (Other is have a bunch of hatchlings die and revive them back to life rather than being zombified). Fun facts.

[olympe]

12 hours ago, Natayah said:

That said, I myself and many others also like to freeze and collect hatchlings, and multiples of those hatchlings because they are so darn adorable on certain dragons, if not most to all dragons. I highly recommend for *ANY* scroll collector to make some freezies. So freeze some cute babies and use them as name dividers and information about you and your dragons if you are into that sort of thing, or just collect them at the back of your scroll to keep you over 1K. With as many breeds, adults, dimorphism, different colors/alts/hybrids, etc. and the different stages of hatchlings, even if you had one of each or a few of each you would easily be at 1K dragons. 

Well, even if you go for a minimum of all genders/stages per breed/color morph/alt, you should easily reach 1000 dragons.

1. We have (almost) 250 breeds in the cave. Tally: 250 x 5 = 1250 (Yes, I know we have only 247 breeds as of right now. We are bound to get more, probably as soon as next week.)
2. Some breeds are one-gendered (around 31, if I counted correctly - chicken, cheese, paper, dinos, all Valentines and all but two Winter holiday breeds), and we have one three-gendered breed (neglecteds), which takes away 2 sprites for each breed and adds 2 for neglecteds. We also only can have 3 GoN, as well as only adult Sinomorphs. Tally: 1250 - 62 + 4 - 3 = 1250 - 61 = 1189
3. Now, there are various breeds where we can have 2 or more different sets of sprites - alts (black, vine, nebula, undine, aegis, solstice), color morphs (stripes +4, coppers +2, prizes +4, lunar heralds +3, dorsals +1, firegems +2, gemshards +2, florets +1, siyats +1, zyus +5, pyrals +2, baikalas +1, two-headed lindwyrms +1... I probably forgot to name some, but my count almost reached 40. (I counted twice, both ended between 38 and 39, respectively. I'm not perfect, so sue me.) Each of these come with 5 sprites to collect. Tally: 1189 + 38 * 5 = 1185 + 190 = 1479.
4. With some effort, you can add some extra sprites to your collection, but they need to be maintained: scaleless lumina/dark lumina, corporealized celestials, Aeons and Bolts after BSA-use... As far as I know, this only works for adults. (Not sure about celestials, though. I have no freezies, so sorry.) Tally: 1479 + 5 * 2 = 1489.
5. Now comes the fun part: Undeads/Zombies. There are 18 sets of sprites, m/f adult, m/f S2 and S1 - correct me if I'm wrong. Undeads made from papers (amphpteres), cheeses (western) or neglecteds (western) would be ungendered/gender unknown. Which adds 2 * 4 extra sprites (nobody in their right mind would try to collect, as they're so rare - but to each their own.) Anyway, let's only take gendered sprites into account. Tally: 1489 + 18 * 5 = 1489 + 90 = 1579. 

Even if you only go for the "easy" parts (points 1 to 3), you'll have a collection of almost 1500 dragons. This allows you to choose to not collect certain things. You could reject freezing in favor of collecting 2 sets of adults and still have your platinum trophy. Or you could decide to only collect different sprites and only collect 1 set of 3 for dragons without dimorphism and still get your platinum trophy. Or you could decide to only go for CB dragons (taking out quite a few alts, hybrids and color morphs) and still easily get your platinum trophy. You could decide to forego all unbreedables or all non-dragons, and still easily get your platinum trophy. Even if you're heavy on OCD. Heck, you probably could combine 2 or 3 of these exceptions with slight adaptations and still get there. 

 

That being said, I still don't see a reason for or against using "dragons on scroll" versus "dragons raised". I think it's fine as it is, and would be fine as it would be if changed. I couldn't care less, considering I'm closing in on 8000 dragons, all adults.

 

[DragonLady86]

Zombies dont count for trophies. Unless somethings change that I'm unaware of.

Edited April 25, 2020 by DragonLady86

[WatersMoon110]

22 hours ago, ValidEmotions said:

Well, here's the thing. You earn things by meeting minimum requirements all the time: high school diplomas, college degrees, "If you get an A in your math class this year, I'll help you get a car" (which means the car isn't being taken away simply because I get a B next year), etc. These are things earned, even at the barest minimum of what's required, with lifetime/long-term benefits, regardless if you maintain those "minimums" or not for the rest of your days (you can forget everything you learned in Algebra class once you passed it for your English Degree; heck, you can even forget everything about how MLA or APA is formatted and just use the internet anytime you need it). Every time, the language involved says "required" and says nothing along the lines of "earned". But that is the general implication, regardless.

 

Same goes with the sports trophies analogy I used earlier. 

 

Heck. Let's continue the car:

People pass their driver's test, following the basic requirements to get their license. And then, as soon as they have the benefit they want to enjoy (driving legally, long-term), they'll throw out all sorts of requirements. They stop using their blinkers, they stop following speed limits, they stop following "left lane is for passing only, right lane is for slower traffic", they stop in the crosswalks instead of behind the limit line, they roll through stop signs instead of actually stopping, etc. The vast majority never suffer any consequences for it.

These are terrible analogies. But let's roll with one. A driver's license has requirements in order to be kept - it must be renewed properly and you can't get caught violating certain laws. But if one no longer meets those requirements, then one no longer gets the benefit of legally driving.

[Fuzzbucket]

That's exactly where I stand. Sure it makes no difference to me - there is no chance I will lose my trophy. But IF I cut back to below 1000, I would be fine about losing. it. I would no longer qualify.

[RainDear]

18 hours ago, KrazyKarp said:

I don't really understand why people would be against this. How does this idea impact you in such a profoundly negative way that you'd be against it? Sure, we can argue all day about "earned" vs. "requirements met", but honestly, who cares? I'm hearing some people who are basically saying "well who cares if this will help others - the current system makes sense to me, so it should stay that way!"

 

This doesn't impact me in any negative way. It helps people in a small way. So if other people feel the need for this, then I'm all for it - it doesn't matter if I personally find it nonsensical. It's a tiny enough suggestion where it's fine to implement and no real harm is done, while at the same time helping people. Neat!

This is my opinion, just my opinion. I don't speak for anyone but myself.

 

There are things in life that I have strong feelings about even if they don't impact me personally.

 

This, while it doesn't impact me directly right now, involves a rule change that could affect me, if for some unforeseen reason I decided to reduce the number of dragons on my scroll. My opinion is that the rule shouldn't be changed. I know the consequences of reducing the number of dragons on my scroll below the requirements. I will accept those consequences if I decide to do that. I see no reason to change the rule.  

[animatedrose]

I'd be fine either way with this. I can see the perks of getting to keep my full 8 eggslots and it'd probs be fun to keep those perks while purging my scroll...but as people have brought up, that would leave new players with a lot of confusion if it's not addressed on-site. "Why does this guy with the same amount of dergs as me have more slots? what gives? not fair."

 

I stress on-site heavily. Most don't bother thinking that that's necessary for anything, tbh. "They can jump on the forums. No biggie." Yeah, no. Any changes to that degree need to be on-site. No exceptions. The forums are separate so any rule changes should be on-site, not on a sidekick platform like some rules are.

 

I probs wouldn't be effected by this either way since I don't plan on doing any purges because I'm a greedy thing who hoards all the things, lol. But I can see how it could cause a lot of confusion. Plus it does say that the trophy is due to a "requirement". You may have earned it, but you have to keep up the requirement in order to keep the trophy and its perks. Like most of the real-life analogies that people keep posting here. You zoom past a cop while breaking the speed limit, that license won't stay yours for very long, no matter how hard you worked to earn it.

[cbussiere]

21 hours ago, KrazyKarp said:

I don't really understand why people would be against this. How does this idea impact you in such a profoundly negative way that you'd be against it? Sure, we can argue all day about "earned" vs. "requirements met", but honestly, who cares? I'm hearing some people who are basically saying "well who cares if this will help others - the current system makes sense to me, so it should stay that way!"

I think the only negative is whether it's worth the time changing the site code. Seems like an easy change, but it'd still need testing and potentially debugging. Small change but it also affects a very small group of players, and affects them unseverely and usually temporarily, so it probably just depends on whether TJ finds it worth implementing.

[KrazyKarp]

2 hours ago, cbussiere said:

I think the only negative is whether it's worth the time changing the site code. Seems like an easy change, but it'd still need testing and potentially debugging. Small change but it also affects a very small group of players, and affects them unseverely and usually temporarily, so it probably just depends on whether TJ finds it worth implementing.

This is an excellent point. If enough people would want this suggestion to be a reality, then there's really no negatives on gameplay, and thus (in my opinion) no justifiable reason to be against this. But you're right in that if too small of a group wants this, it may not be worth implementing - which I feel will be the fate of this idea.

Edited April 26, 2020 by KrazyKarp

[darkladyselenity]

I joined in 2008, and way back then, trophies didn't exist. You only had four egg slots. Back then, I grabbed everything I could get my hands on just so I could have dragons that I didn't have yet.

 

Then I took a six year break. When I came back in August, I was barely at the gold trophy limit. I didn't get my platinum trophy until March of this year, just because I have gotten more picky since coming back. 

 

That said, I will still love my older dragons, even the messies and inbreds, and I don't plan on purging, because I don't want to lose the egg slots. 

 

I can understand the OPs frustrations, but in all honesty I like the trophy system the way it is. It's so much better than only having four slots. I feel like any veteran player would agree with me on this. 

 

It may suck to go back down to gold level, but honestly, so what? Seven slots is still better than four, and it's not hard to get back over a thousand and be picky. Look at it as a challenge, and enjoy it. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by darkladyselenity

[camelia2]

Absolutely NO support.

The trophies reflects one's relationship to the game. Is a 'dragon lover achievment' in my eyes. It reflects loyalty to the game collecting, breeding and most importantly caring for dragons.

Since the trophy only counts adults, that lore wise you grow with hard work, befriending the dragons you cared so much for, is a statment of your care for your dragons.

Since the only way of downgrade your trophy is to kill or release adult dragons, it reflects your turning to a carelessness toward dragons/the game itself.

With so many beautifull sprites, I find it hard to believe that someone (that allready had that trophy and is still atached to the game) couldn't find 1000 dragons to keep on the scroll.

Edited May 4, 2020 by camelia2

[DragonLady86]

22 minutes ago, camelia2 said:

Absolutely NO support.

The trophies reflects one's relationship to the game. Is a 'dragon lover achievment' in my eyes. It reflects loyalty to the game collecting, breeding and most importantly caring for dragons.

Since the trophy only counts adults, that lore wise you grow with hard work, befriending the dragons you cared so much for, is a statment of your care for your dragons.

Since the only way of downgrade your trophy is to kill or release adult dragons, it reflects your turning to a carelessness toward dragons/the game itself.

With so many beautifull sprites, I find it hard to believe that someone (that allready had that trophy and is still atached to the game) couldn't find 1000 dragons to keep on the scroll.

Trophies count frozen hatchlings too. Not just adults 

[camelia2]

You 'worked' to hatch those too.

Sure there are shortcuts like picking them from AP, but that's the lore and adopting one is still a bonding. Plus to freeze something you consume slots hence time

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, camelia2 said:

With so many beautiful sprites, I find it hard to believe that someone (that already had that trophy and is still attached to the game) couldn't find 1000 dragons to keep on the scroll.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[DragonLady86]

8 hours ago, camelia2 said:

You 'worked' to hatch those too.

Sure there are shortcuts like picking them from AP, but that's the lore and adopting one is still a bonding. Plus to freeze something you consume slots hence time

Did you just reverse your argument? All that work because its adults only. Now you're backtracking to say oh, yeah hatchlings can be work too. Because I certainly didn't need convinced of that, I've got a couple thousand of them. Maybe I'm just tired, but just a little confused here.

[tyto_alba]

Once you reach the trophy amount, you should be able to keep the egg slots earned if you do purge your scroll and fall below the arbitrary requirements again. I don't see why anyone would be against this. 

[Jazeki]

5 hours ago, tyto_alba said:

Once you reach the trophy amount, you should be able to keep the egg slots earned if you do purge your scroll and fall below the arbitrary requirements again. I don't see why anyone would be against this. 

They're not arbitrary. They're requirements plain and simple. If you want the perks of a trophy, you must maintain a certain number of dragons on your scroll. 

[tyto_alba]

I still support egg slots staying as is once a trophy is rewarded despite the number of dragons lowering AFTER said trophy is rewarded.

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, Jazeki said:

They're not arbitrary. They're requirements plain and simple. If you want the perks of a trophy, you must maintain a certain number of dragons on your scroll. 

 

Still with Jaz on this one.

[Autopilot]

I'm not against the effort of unlocking the slots. This makes 100% complete sense. What does not make sense is being penalized afterwards by dropping below an arbitrary threshold. It's very weird. It makes no sense game-mechanics wise. Its definitely not intuitive either. Its far more confusing that it does happen*.

 

*There is a sort of 'communal gaming literacy' that is constantly changing over time. As more games are produced, and more different things tried, players are able to assume things when going into a new game. For example, fire up a game and you can assume that WASD or the arrow keys will make you move, space bar will make you jump. With achievements, it is assumed that once you earn them, you keep them and their rewards and you move forward. This makes sense, this is most satisfying, this is what people expect. I am not saying that there are games that do not do this. And i am not saying that you have to follow trends in games. BUT, in the case of what is essentially an achievement system, there really is an ideal and easily understood way for it to function.

 

I think this change would be a 100% benefit to the game and be more intuitive. I see lots of concern through the forum of things "making sense" and "new users being confused". This would help address that. As a new player, I obviously did not know about it (and others in this thread did not either by the looks of it) and found it a very unpleasant surprise- hence a suggestion to make a change.

 

[Shadowdrake]

I think it's reasonable to adjust it for the benefit of *the achiever* rather than some nebulous person who may or may not see their scroll. The odds of someone doing this are higher than a newbie just happening to see it, particularly since scrolls are not publicly available to just browse.

 

Also there's already a person whose trophy is higher than their owned dragons so the ship has sailed on that front.

[Natayah]

@Fiona Thanks for sharing the history lesson/background information. That was actually really cool to learn. Thanks! I think it will also be informative as people make suggestions as well (hence why you posted it), but it isn't just oh wow that was interesting, that explains a lot of background intent and objectives, and so I think it really helps when people come with suggestions and ideas to know where things started from. Doesn't mean they can't alter or change, however, I love learning about DC Background and Stuff. It is always a fun interesting read (and, of course, something that will be Archived in DC History and/or Wiki's). Cheers!

[HeatherMarie]

2 hours ago, Fiona said:

I was very honored when TJ used my ideas years ago to revamp the egg slot system. That was when the trophies were introduced into the game, when the "bred egg only" slot disappeared and egg slots and hatchling slots were divorced from each other. The idea was that as you raised more dragons and collected more dragons you gained access to more egg and hatchling slots. Yes, there's a thought of "now that you have x many dragons you're able to take care of more eggs" but mainly the thought was that you earned more slots by having more dragons. Having more dragons on your scroll is a qualifier for egg slots, and not a matter of gaining an achievement.

 

(bolded for emphasis)

Thank you for explaining the history here, Fiona, and the intentions that went into the implementation of trophies. That last sentence explains (much better, imo) what I've been saying. Trophies aren't 'get there and done', there is a *condition* for each trophy level that you must maintain in order to have that trophy.  The 'egg limits' page even specifically says 'Required Dragons', as in you are required to have those dragons in order to have the trophy. If you don't have that amount, you don't have the trophy. Regardless of what you may have had in the past. 

[Fuzzbucket]

Thanks Fiona - I totally get what you are saying and I agree 100%.

[Shadowdrake]

Achievement, milestone, requirement, does it really matter what it's called? The argument is that the player did reach it, and then it's taken away. It's certainly not a race unless it's a race against yourself, so there's no point to removing that trophy when they've finished that leg of the marathon already, even if they go backwards a bit.

 

My opinion that this change would be more beneficial than a lack of change stands regardless of its history.