Thoughts on Sickness

[ArgentiAertheri]

@Kovia while a BSA to reduce/half views might make sense (and I kinda like it), I'm not sure it'd help any when it comes to viewbombing. Another tool to help if you catch it fast enough would always be nice, and you could maybe work some sort of "anti-incubate" in with a stun like thing for eggs… but it does jack-all when viewbombing starts while you're at work/school/etc.

 

Tangent: I like the idea @13310 had about an ice dragon cooling the egg, but that seems more akin to "stun" to me.

[HeatherMarie]

Yeah, I think if there was going to be any sort of BSA aimed at helping to cure sickness, like halving views or cooling the egg, there *also* needs to be something tweaked to stop dragons from getting sick-beyond-saving so ridiculously fast. Something to help cure sickness doesn't really help if the dragon dies of sickness before you can even get to it. Someone mentioned something about sickness not being able to kill a dragon until it's been sick a certain amount of time, I'd like that.

[JavaTigress]

7 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Yeah, I think if there was going to be any sort of BSA aimed at helping to cure sickness, like halving views or cooling the egg, there *also* needs to be something tweaked to stop dragons from getting sick-beyond-saving so ridiculously fast. Something to help cure sickness doesn't really help if the dragon dies of sickness before you can even get to it. Someone mentioned something about sickness not being able to kill a dragon until it's been sick a certain amount of time, I'd like that.

 I would be in favor of a suggestion like that, actually, because it WOULD give us the chance to actually DO something about the problem and, ya know, take care of our eggies and hatchlings the way we are SUPPOSED to be made to do by sickness. This way would reinforce the notion that we DO need to watch for it, but at the same time make it much MORE difficult for someone to actually KILL a dragon before we are able do something about it. So plus One support from me. Since TJ seems to be disinclined to totally remove sickness ( AND he has his reasons for that, byy the way)... changing the mechanic just a bit so that we can actually do something about it in those EXTREME cases , would be lovely. I even THINK it wouldn't interfere with experiments, either? IF I am right?

Edited March 4, 2018 by JavaTigress

[tjekan]

15 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

DC is already as laid back a game as you can get, for the most part; while sickness is certainly frustrating, removing even the threat of that danger would certainly give at least me much less reason to check in on my eggs every day, thus hurting site revenue.

 

So what you're saying is viewbombing is actually a good thing? By increasing a sense of urgency in players and improving site revenue?

 

Because if it weren't for viewbombers, I don't think any experienced player would ever lose an egg accidentally to sickness. There is no threat except to new players and viewbombing victims.

 

I can actually kind of understand the argument that viewbombers are counterintuitively a good thing for the site. They do get an adrenaline reaction and make people spend extra energy protecting their scrolls, and they also generate a lot more clicks for the site. By that standard, though, a "fog all" button would be right out. It would have the opposite effect on adrenaline, and making each user individually fog 12 eggs and hatchies each time is 11 more clicks apiece than letting them do it once. Either the goal is user convenience or it's not, right?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

2 minutes ago, tjekan said:

 

So what you're saying is viewbombing is actually a good thing? By increasing a sense of urgency in players and improving site revenue?

 

Because if it weren't for viewbombers, I don't think any experienced player would ever lose an egg accidentally to sickness. There is no threat except to new players and viewbombing victims.

 

I can actually kind of understand the argument that viewbombers are counterintuitively a good thing for the site. They do get an adrenaline reaction and make people spend extra energy protecting their scrolls, and they also generate a lot more clicks for the site. By that standard, though, a "fog all" button would be right out. It would have the opposite effect on adrenaline, and making each user individually fog 12 eggs and hatchies each time is 11 more clicks apiece than letting them do it once. Either the goal is user convenience or it's not, right?

 

If I thought viewbombing was a good thing, I wouldn't have suggested putting a cap on how quickly sickness can kill or adding a fog all button.

 

It's more like, being careful during holidays when things are busy, learning not to put eggs in too quickly, watching prize eggs, making sure the world didn't just go weird and make your egg turn up in the rotation a bunch of times at once...

 

I haven't ever lost an egg to such situations, and you're right that most experienced players won't. However, it creates a SENSE of urgency that would otherwise be lacking, even if the danger is mostly in our minds. Like I said, if I didn't have to worry about sickness whatsoever (even if that danger is remote), then what reason do I have to casually check in on my eggs every few hours? As mentioned above, I do think safeguards should be put into place to reduce viewbombing as a malicious tool, but removing sickness entirely makes an already easy game go completely brainless, IMO.

[Fuzzbucket]

11 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

 As mentioned above, I do think safeguards should be put into place to reduce viewbombing as a malicious tool, but removing sickness entirely makes an already easy game go completely brainless, IMO.

 

I agree with this bit.

[HeatherMarie]

5 hours ago, tjekan said:

 

Because if it weren't for viewbombers, I don't think any experienced player would ever lose an egg accidentally to sickness. There is no threat except to new players and viewbombing victims.

 

 

That may be your experience, but it certainly isn't everyone's, and general statements like that do not show an accurate picture of the userbase. I've been playing for almost a decade now, literally actively playing on the site for 3+ hours every single day, and I still get my share of sickness with my growing dragons. Usually it's only the few breeds that are notorious for getting sick easier, like Prizes and Zyus and Avatars (omg the Zyus are such a pain), and to my recollection I have never actually had an egg *die* from sickness, but it's very misleading to say there is no threat for experienced players.

 

Viewbombing is not the only way that a dragon can get sick, and newbies throwing them in tons of hatcheries when they are brand new isn't the only other way. Sickness is a mechanic that can happen for *many* different reasons, under many different circumstances. Just because those other circumstances are less prevalent doesn't mean they shouldn't be considered in the 'what does sickness actually do' area. For me, the threat of sickness means that even when my eggs get down to ER-time I very rarely leave them in hatcheries for extended periods without checking on them. And for me, that's a good thing, because it makes me more involved in the caring of my eggs. I'm not in any way saying that death by sickness that we can't do anything about is a good thing, but sickness in general is not always such a horrible thing.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm a mentor and I agree with HeatherMarie. I often have to tell my students - repeatedly - NOT to put new eggs in hatcheries not to use 6 at once and so on. And then I will see - in TLQ and other threads - experienced  people who say "well, I "only" used 5 fan sites and not till my eggs were 2 hours old..."

[13310]

There was another suggestion that could be combined with the Ice/wind/elemental dragon idea to prevent (instead of combat) sickness in a "makes sense" sorta way. Have the dragon summon a cloud of frost/swirling wind which keeps the egg's temperature from becoming too hot (cap views per hour). Or the dragon could sit, regulating the egg, much like the Red's incubate. It could be an action like "unfog" to remove after it is applied.

Others (applied "sickness" to them):

1. You must click to confirm the dragon aging up. If not done within a time limit, the egg/dragon gets sick (which could be more deadly).

2. True neglect. If not visiting the scroll at least 1x during egg/hatchie stage, it gets sick.

[olympe]

As much as I like that idea, it's probably too much like Ward for TJ to give his approval.  Plus, it seems rather complicated, compared to the other BSAs, which are very straight-forward.

[HeatherMarie]

40 minutes ago, 13310 said:

There was another suggestion that could be combined with the Ice/wind/elemental dragon idea to prevent (instead of combat) sickness in a "makes sense" sorta way. Have the dragon summon a cloud of frost/swirling wind which keeps the egg's temperature from becoming too hot (cap views per hour). Or the dragon could sit, regulating the egg, much like the Red's incubate. It could be an action like "unfog" to remove after it is applied.

Others (applied "sickness" to them):

1. You must click to confirm the dragon aging up. If not done within a time limit, the egg/dragon gets sick (which could be more deadly).

2. True neglect. If not visiting the scroll at least 1x during egg/hatchie stage, it gets sick.

 

I personally do not want the only changes made to sickness to be dependent on having specific dragons in order to use a BSA. I don't think we should have to hoard a certain type of dragon in order to use it to keep an egg's temperature okay, just so our eggs don't die really fast from outside interference. And are we supposed to use that action on every single egg we get? I really think sickness itself needs to be re-worked in some way that stops eggs from dying within minutes of getting sick, whether a view-cap or death only being possible after a certain amount of time being sick or whatever... I don't think a BSA should be the only way to protect our dragons. 

 

I would definitely not want to be forced to click a dragon every single time one of them needs to mature, that would slow down the game a *lot* because no dragons would be able to hatch or grow up while I'm asleep, or at work... Please no. 

[13310]

5 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I personally do not want the only changes made to sickness to be dependent on having specific dragons in order to use a BSA. I don't think we should have to hoard a certain type of dragon in order to use it to keep an egg's temperature okay, just so our eggs don't die really fast from outside interference.

Eh, I agree, just throwing whatever pops up incase someone can make something out of it.

Just really want to see sickness be the scroll owner's fault instead of being caused by harassment. Are there some other ways a scroll could be neglected to cause sickness? Something only inexperienced owners might do, and learn from, but can still be an issue if not paying attention? I remember leaving my scroll the full 7 days at first, because it said "Hatches in 7 days", and I took that at face value, which is why the extra 2. was in the list above.

Quote

I would definitely not want to be forced to click a dragon every single time one of them needs to mature, that would slow down the game a *lot*

Due to the harassment, I'm forced to un-hide scroll, add to hatcheries, re-hide scroll. Then ward & fog individual codes which were picked up somehow and got sick. Then un-fog, un-hide scroll, re-add the egg after it isn't sick, and re-hide the scroll again. Being hit this hard, it would be a net lower amount of clicks. An extreme suggestion/reaction to a currently extremely frustrating (at times) system.

 

Edit: That said, over the past week or so, I've had a bit less of the bombing/sickness issue. I think the reason I was hit so hard is that my scroll name begins with a number. So if these people are attacking an alphabetical list, it's on top. Regardless, the eggs haven't been getting sick quite as early as before. Could just as easily be an effect of constant scroll-hiding, though (and I still had a few -instantly- added to Sherwood, seems to happen at night).

Edited March 6, 2018 by 13310

[Fuzzbucket]

But I'm with Heather<Marie - it is TOO extreme. We do actually know TJ is working ion it - I'm inclined to wait and see what he can come up with. I'd like it to be a mechanic that is managed automatically myself. I don't want a BSA solution.

[HeatherMarie]

I'm probably totally inviting a viewbombing by saying this, but I thankfully have not been targeted recently, and take the bare minimum of precautions. I fog anything that's actually important to me until it gets down to 4 days 12 hours or so, then re-fog them when going to bed, but I don't hide my scroll or fog every single thing (and I very rarely use Ward even when something does get sick, honestly). So for me, having to go in and manually click an egg to get it to hatch would be very frustrating, because I often have eggs hatch while I'm away from the computer, and their hatchling-timer is already at 6 days 12 hours or even less by the time I check on them. Delaying that until I can click on them despite them having enough stats and low enough time... That'd just be extremely frustrating.

 

Also, I'm glad you seem to have confidence in TJ changing something here, Fuzz, but I'm still very wary. He has posted nothing about actually tweaking the sickness mechanic in any way, just that he is 'paying attention' to sickness and that detecting/banning viewbombing sources will 'maybe probably be automated in the near future'. Which honestly doesn't give me a lot of hope, since detecting a viewbombing in-process is *not* the same as stopping sickness from killing dragons so quickly due to those viewbombings. 

[olympe]

22 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

Also, I'm glad you seem to have confidence in TJ changing something here, Fuzz, but I'm still very wary. He has posted nothing about actually tweaking the sickness mechanic in any way, just that he is 'paying attention' to sickness and that detecting/banning viewbombing sources will 'maybe probably be automated in the near future'. Which honestly doesn't give me a lot of hope, since detecting a viewbombing in-process is *not* the same as stopping sickness from killing dragons so quickly due to those viewbombings. 

Which, in TJ-speak, usually means that he's working on something/done working on something but doesn't want to tell us exactly how it works. 

[JavaTigress]

30 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

I'm probably totally inviting a viewbombing by saying this, but I thankfully have not been targeted recently, and take the bare minimum of precautions. I fog anything that's actually important to me until it gets down to 4 days 12 hours or so, then re-fog them when going to bed, but I don't hide my scroll or fog every single thing (and I very rarely use Ward even when something does get sick, honestly). So for me, having to go in and manually click an egg to get it to hatch would be very frustrating, because I often have eggs hatch while I'm away from the computer, and their hatchling-timer is already at 6 days 12 hours or even less by the time I check on them. Delaying that until I can click on them despite them having enough stats and low enough time... That'd just be extremely frustrating.

 

Also, I'm glad you seem to have confidence in TJ changing something here, Fuzz, but I'm still very wary. He has posted nothing about actually tweaking the sickness mechanic in any way, just that he is 'paying attention' to sickness and that detecting/banning viewbombing sources will 'maybe probably be automated in the near future'. Which honestly doesn't give me a lot of hope, since detecting a viewbombing in-process is *not* the same as stopping sickness from killing dragons so quickly due to those viewbombings. 

I am sort of with @Fuzzbucket on this one.

 

I am sort of curious as to what TJ is up to on this.

 

While I DO get your concern, and I agree that banning viewbomb sources is NOT the SAME thing as tweaking the mechanic itself.

That said,we don't know TJs thoughts on this AND he sometimes likes to keep things behind the scenes until it is ready.

 

d by @olympe who stated it well.

 

With TJ, not saying much does NOT necessarily mean he isnt DOING anything

Edited March 5, 2018 by JavaTigress

[Fuzzbucket]

10 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Also, I'm glad you seem to have confidence in TJ changing something here, Fuzz, but I'm still very wary. He has posted nothing about actually tweaking the sickness mechanic in any way, just that he is 'paying attention' to sickness and that detecting/banning viewbombing sources will 'maybe probably be automated in the near future'. Which honestly doesn't give me a lot of hope, since detecting a viewbombing in-process is *not* the same as stopping sickness from killing dragons so quickly due to those viewbombings. 

 

9 hours ago, olympe said:

Which, in TJ-speak, usually means that he's working on something/done working on something but doesn't want to tell us exactly how it works. 

 

And I don't WANT him to tell us. That would be information that could help bombers. I want him to keep it all - not close to his chest, but hidden deep within.

[HeatherMarie]

Oh, I'm not looking for TJ to divulge the inner workings of sickness or whatever, most of it would probably go over my head anyways if it was techy in any way. But something showing that he understands that dragons dying within minutes is actually a flaw in the system, or simply saying that he is doing *something* to combat the actual 'sickness leading to death so fast' issue, instead of only addressing viewbombings-in-progress, would be nice. A very general statement letting us know that sickness is going to be tweaked (or even why it won't be) would not be of any help to viewbombers, but would do a lot to ease some people's minds, imo.