Thoughts on Sickness

[tjekan]

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Automatic fogging would remove the need to watch your scroll yourself. I really don't think TJ would go for that, and I actually hope he wouldn't. (The generation of clicks isn't the reason for needing them; it's to make us actually PLAY that we need to get the views.)

 

 

I disagree. If people's eggs fogged whenever they weren't paying attention to them, they would need to keep logging back in to un-fog them. That would force frequent engagement with their scrolls as much as having to keep checking to see if their eggs were sick does.

 

Just being honest here: trying to "make" users "actually play" is a newbie thing. None of us long-term players need to be tricked or arm-twisted into playing the game. Only new players would run the risk of dumping their eggs in a hatchery and forgetting to play, and only new players ever have their eggs accidentally die from doing this. The rest of us ONLY have eggs die when some annoying person goes through and intentionally kills them, which was never supposed to be part of the game at all.

 

At that point, the question becomes "how do we continue encouraging new players to stay engaged with their scrolls without opening the door to viewbombers." That, and yes, "how can we guarantee that users click on the site frequently to load enough ads" (we'd be naive to assume that isn't part of the real issue here.)

 

In my opinion, making the eggs actually die when clicked too much accomplishes neither. All that's wanted is to force users to check on, and click on, their scrolls frequently in order for them to progress. Making the eggs auto-fog would do this, as they would need to either keep checking in to keep them from auto-fogging or keep logging in to click on them all and un-fog them. The eggs would still die if new users forgot them and left them fogged, but never because of viewbombing any more.

[JavaTigress]

On 2/24/2018 at 4:03 PM, Dalek Raptor said:

This right here. During the EAtW attack, even with the egg being Warded and immediately fogging the hatchi right afterwards, I lost a 3rd gen Shimmerscale hatchi. How long did it take to hatch? A minute thirty seconds. It was still too far gone to save even then. The entire reason I brought up this thread is because what if we have a massive attack like that again this year? What site would we lose? How many more major hatcheries would we lose in order to prevent this from happening again?

 

Valid point, HOWEVER, I would point out that as the attack was on the HATTCHERY itself, even removing the possibility of death my sickness wouldn't NECESSARILY remove the possibility of an attack aimed at bringing down a hatchery. Prevention on DC users end can't....unfortunately...stop that aspect of it. Though it might very well remove a PART of the problem by making an attack less devastating to us as users.

 

I understand WHY the runner of EATW decided to shut down their site, and I don't in any way blame them for what happened, but MY concern is that the whole thing sets a bad precedent. And hatcheries could still be attacked, perhaps in other ways ,even IF deaths by sickness were removed entirely, if someone is that dedicated to seeing it happen.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am all in favor of more and better ways to protect our dragons.

Just pointing out that what happened with EATW was in a class by itself AND that from what little we know about the motives what IF it was always about killing the site and not our dragons at all. I don't think we should regard it as USUAL viewbombing. If it was about the site itself, then, it is up to the runners of various hatcheries to protect their sites, unfortunately. I don't LIKE to play Devil's Advocate here, but we MAY have a bigger problem than JUST viewbombing if the goal was to take out the hatchery itself. As @pinkgothic said, trolls usually eventual get bored and move on. IMO, this seemed FAR too organized and dedicated for mere trolling. ( The theory I read was that someone may have actually paid Real World MONEY to have that attack made?) If someone has, for whatever reason, declared 'war' on DC and the hatcheries.... well, that is a much BIGGER problem.

Edited March 1, 2018 by JavaTigress

[blockEdragon]

Get rid of it (and replace it with a view cap if excess views are an issue)

The whole "users won't check the site" is both a silly argument and a small price for other users not being able to kill people's eggs out of malice, users will still log on to hunt, breed and do all the other nonsense and if someone's already not inclined to be that active then they could just fog their eggs and drop them in every hatchery when they're at 4 days and wait an hour for them all to hatch and then go get their next batch.

 

It's pretty much a useless and outdated feature that at this point is only a real threat when someone is TRYING to kill your eggs, most people know not to add eggs into hatcheries until they're at 4-5 days left and can easily look up the info.

Edited March 2, 2018 by blockEdragon

[HeatherMarie]

@blockEdragon Well TJ has said, very recently, that getting rid of sickness completely isn't going to happen. That's why we are trying to suggest things that will help it be less punishing and detrimental to actual gameplay. (And yes, most long-time players know not to add fresh eggs everywhere, but most newbies *don't* know that, as evidenced by the number of times I and others have to explain to newbies why their eggs are sick.)

 

I still think the easiest thing would be to cap the number of views a dragon could get in a certain amount of time, so they could still get sick if they got 200 views too fast but wouldn't be able to get 1,000 views in that same time period and die too fast for the user to do anything about it. 

[Gryphonic]

An idea I had, which may be what Ratto and others have also thought of, is having sickness merely delay the next stage of maturation until it goes away.  Eggs won't hatch, hatchies won't grow up, while they are sick.  Viewbombing will still be possible and annoying, since TJ seems to want consequences to be possible, but the babs won't be permanently killed by it. 

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, HeatherMarie said:

I still think the easiest thing would be to cap the number of views a dragon could get in a certain amount of time, so they could still get sick if they got 200 views too fast but wouldn't be able to get 1,000 views in that same time period and die too fast for the user to do anything about it. 

 

That would put an end to neglecting....

[tjekan]

8 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

@blockEdragon Well TJ has said, very recently, that getting rid of sickness completely isn't going to happen.

 

Sure, but sickness doesn't have to actually kill eggs. If the goal is to force newbies to tend their scrolls more actively, then any annoying but nonlethal consequence would be equally effective. If the goal is to generate more clicks from people having to keep fogging their eggs all the time, then any click-demanding mechanic would work equally well (clicking all the eggs to unfog them just as well as fogging them, for example.) This one thing that keeps being exploited by viewbombers isnt a necessary component of sickness.

[JavaTigress]

14 minutes ago, tjekan said:

 

Sure, but sickness doesn't have to actually kill eggs. If the goal is to force newbies to tend their scrolls more actively, then any annoying but nonlethal consequence would be equally effective. If the goal is to generate more clicks from people having to keep fogging their eggs all the time, then any click-demanding mechanic would work equally well (clicking all the eggs to unfog them just as well as fogging them, for example.) This one thing that keeps being exploited by viewbombers isnt a necessary component of sickness.

Very much this.

 

Sickness could still EXIST, and serve the function it was meant to serve, while still closing up the loophole that allows someone to willfully use it to kill another person's dragons.

Edited March 2, 2018 by JavaTigress

[HeatherMarie]

7 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

That would put an end to neglecting....

 

.... Oh yeah. I always forget about neglecting because I've never attempted. Dang.

[JavaTigress]

4 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

.... Oh yeah. I always forget about neglecting because I've never attempted. Dang.

Don't feel bad, tho, @HeatherMarie. You are not the only one. I forget too, simply because it isn't a thing I personally do. ( NOT that want others to lose the ability to do it.)

[Shadowdrake]

10 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

That would put an end to neglecting....

Not really, 1000 views are nowhere near how many views most ND tests I've seen. And if that's really a concern just have the cap of views gained per hour/6 hours/whatever just increase as age increases like the sickness threshold does.

[Kovia]

On 2/28/2018 at 8:06 PM, Kovia said:

I had a thought.

Perhaps a BSA, maybe something like "Poison" for the Fever Wyvern (are there any others stated to have poison?), that halves the views/UVs of its target. Coupled with fogging and Ward, this could be used to rescue an egg that was attacked but hasn't yet succome. Probably only usable once per dragon on the grounds that too much of the poison would simply kill it.

Did no one see this?

 

Neglecting could also be retooled to have a wider window of opportunity. Sickness and viewbombing affects more people than neglecting does.

[JavaTigress]

17 minutes ago, Kovia said:

Did no one see this?

 

Neglecting could also be retooled to have a wider window of opportunity. Sickness and viewbombing affects more people than neglecting does.

Ah, yes! AND I wasn't thinkigna bout using this in terms of neglecting BUT... it might work for that as well.

 

There ARE some other breeds stated to have poison. I believe the Sinii Krai, do, for example.

[Fuzzbucket]

2 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

Not really, 1000 views are nowhere near how many views most ND tests I've seen. And if that's really a concern just have the cap of views gained per hour/6 hours/whatever just increase as age increases like the sickness threshold does.

 

They need a LOT of views very fast. Which would almost certainly trigger any cap mechanism.,

 

2 hours ago, Kovia said:

Quote

Perhaps a BSA, maybe something like "Poison" for the Fever Wyvern (are there any others stated to have poison?), that halves the views/UVs of its target. Coupled with fogging and Ward, this could be used to rescue an egg that was attacked but hasn't yet succome. Probably only usable once per dragon on the grounds that too much of the poison would simply kill it.

 

Did no one see this?

 

Yes, but I didn't particularly like the idea.

[DuskOfTheStars]

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

They need a LOT of views very fast. Which would almost certainly trigger any cap mechanism.,

 

 

Yes, but I didn't particularly like the idea.

 

Actually, a cap of ~400 OV would be good for the method I use. Or of ~35UV.

[Chromatic Daija]

Getting real sick (hah) of this viewbombing stuff. I just got hit with it and had to hide my scroll and just about every egg and some important hatchies. -.-

Edited March 2, 2018 by Chromatic Daija

[ArgentiAertheri]

If any cap stopped applying when the egg was down to, say, 10 min til death that wouldn't affect experiments would it?

[Kovia]

Eh I'd say maybe the last hour of life on the egg. Give a bit of wiggle room.

[HeatherMarie]

That might work, a cap to stop viewbombers from just attacking with ridiculous amounts of views, together with the cap lifting in enough time for neglected experiments, that sounds doable. 

 

I don't really like the idea of poisoning our dragons to make them better, that doesn't really make much sense lore-wise. If an animal is sick, their immune system is weaker, so deliberately poisoning them probably isn't a good idea.

[Fly-by-Night]

On 24.2.2018 at 8:46 PM, purplehaze said:

I'm sorry, but I do think sickness serves a purpose. Without it everyone would just throw their eggs in a hatchery or 10 as soon as they got them and then wouldn't have to do anything else with them. There is no challenge in that, no strategy, no planning -- just toss and be done.

 

But - this is exactly what happens to me BECAUSE OF sickness. Before I was afraid of my eggs getting sick, I logged in every so often to see if they were fine, if they needed more / fewer views, if I'd got a nice Alt, to consider trades and generally look at the adorable hatchi sprites (and imagining how the hatchis were playing together in the dragon nursery, and showing off their new sets of wings ).

 

This doesn't happen anymore at times of danger of sickness. To me, the game turns into a fairly dull, mechanic thing then. Catch egg, fog it. Return when it's at 4 days, hatch it (I usually get some work done at the same time, so I'm not even fully playing), fog it again. I hardly ever see the hatchi sprites at holiday seasons, which is a pity and sometimes even feels disrespectful towards the artist. The scroll looks boring with a whole load of fog on it. I play DC because I like the idea of raising beautiful, colourful dragons, not blobs of fog. Where's the point in that? I just don't enjoy it.

To me, sickness makes the game boring and much, much less emotional.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by Fly-by-Night

[Kovia]

17 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

That might work, a cap to stop viewbombers from just attacking with ridiculous amounts of views, together with the cap lifting in enough time for neglected experiments, that sounds doable. 

 

I don't really like the idea of poisoning our dragons to make them better, that doesn't really make much sense lore-wise. If an animal is sick, their immune system is weaker, so deliberately poisoning them probably isn't a good idea.

I only thought poison because of the idea of reducing views, which are sort of a measurement of the dragon's health? It's kinda hard to relate views to anything since they both help the dragon grow and make it sick. But if you consider views a good thing, you'd need something negative to take those away. A BSA like this could potentially be used on something that isn't sick, although I don't really see why you would.

[HeatherMarie]

It is difficult to figure out exactly what views would be comparable to in our world, but I see them as sort of a food/nutrient thing... All animals need food to survive, and eating regularly helps your body as you grow, but eating too much too fast will make you sick. Same concept with views. Either way, I don't think deliberately poisoning an animal would cure them of sickness, no matter how the sickness was obtained. 

 

edit: Also, Fever Wyverns have a 'very deadly disease' that they use to poison pray. There is nothing at all to suggest that their poison is capable of anything besides harm. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by HeatherMarie

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Not sure if I posted here or not...

 

- I'd love a "fog all growing things" option.

- I'd like to be able to fog things in teleports, with the lineage still visible to anyone viewing the teleport.

- I think rather than delaying hatching, sickness might be better if it just didn't kill for a set period of time / had a stopping point. Ie, if someone tried to viewbomb an egg to death, it would stop gaining extra views once it hit a certain threshold of sickness, and it wouldn't be able to die for, say, six hours or so after getting sick. That would still give people a compelling reason to guard against sickness, but at the same time it would prevent things from dying in the blink of an eye or getting to irrecoverable levels of sickness. 

- I don't support removing sickness all together. DC is already as laid back a game as you can get, for the most part; while sickness is certainly frustrating, removing even the threat of that danger would certainly give at least me much less reason to check in on my eggs every day, thus hurting site revenue. I imagine I'm not the only one who would feel a similar dropping of urgency. That's why I think something that prevents the most malicious acts, while still ensuring people need to be careful (ie, the limits I suggested above), would be a nice middle ground.

 

Edit @Kovia / @HeatherMarie : I see views as akin to a slow incubation process. A gentle steady warmth hatches eggs; an intense surge bakes them. Reds just aid the process even more by adding their assistance. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by angelicdragonpuppy

[13310]

2 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

Edit @Kovia / @HeatherMarie : I see views as akin to a slow incubation process. A gentle steady warmth hatches eggs; an intense surge bakes them. Reds just aid the process even more by adding their assistance. 

Hmm, in that respect, could we have an Ice themed dragon cool the young? Slow or reduce overall views, as someone mentioned for the other dragon. Would make frostbites more desirable.

 

I understood sickness on joining so many years back as a punishment for over-eagerness in hatching your young. With so many being bombed, it has just become a hassle. Enter scroll, un-hide scroll, add to desired hatchery, re-hide scroll, and add individual fogging if someone snagged a code. Trading is especially dangerous. Plus, no one can see what you could breed for them, because the dragons are all hidden! Maybe have a reverse of the "hide all grown dragons" option, but that still wouldn't solve the "un-hide, add/remove hatchery, re-hide" shuffle.

 

Eggs can't hatch before a certain period, regardless. I could understand sickness if eggs could hatch earlier, but with the time limit, can't see the point. If clicks are what is desired, perhaps the owner could be required to appear on the scroll at least 1x while the young is in egg stage & 1x while they are in hatchie stage (otherwise, sickness). Or require the owner to "confirm" each growing to the next stage (1x extra click per young, per stage).

[Kovia]

Fever was just the first dragon to pop into my mind. Well, the very first was the Aeon or Chrono messing with time, but the first already has a BSA and the second the creator has stated they don't want to give it one.