2018-02-08 - Valentine's Event Schedule

[FoxintheBox4]

Hmm rip sweetlings :S

[purpledragonclaw]

Ah, I finally have a chance to get the CB '09 Valentine dragons! 

 

Even though I couldn't get them, I'm saddened at the loss of Alt Sweetlings. I loved collecting the lineages members put together with them.

[Jazeki]

I don't have alt sweets, but I feel bad for all involved. If it were me, I would not release my CBs just to get pinks. I also feel bad for those with ruined lineages. I have an alternating sweetling/marrow line that I sometimes breed. I guess she will only be bred on Halloween now. Honestly, there were probably better solutions than just retiring them.

[Starscream]

I got my two 2009's thanks TJ! I love this!

[SkyWolf25]

Maintenance time :'D

[Tish]

Not happy with the Sweetling change at all. 

[Stormpaws]

2 hours ago, Daypaw said:

As for the Sweetlings; I personally would have preferred if they would all breed true to their variant so that everyone would have a chance at both sprites (which would also still leave CB alts for those hit by the glitch that year) but I'm not really that concerned one way or the other about them being retired.

 

That would have been the best solution in my opinion, it's such a gorgeous sprite. *sighs*

Oh well, at least we got the re-release of the other valentines.

[Kelkelen]

Happy about the event, happy that former dragons are being re-released as CBs.  Thanks to all involved for that. 

However, I don't think retiring the 2010 Alt Sweetlings was a good move.  I don't understand the purpose.  If you're going to essentially take away someone's dragons, or their dragons' chance at matching offspring, I'd appreciate at least being given a reason!  I don't want my Tri-color Winged Snow Angels to stop breeding Tri-colors next Christmas because suddenly it's been decided they'll all have gold wings from now on!  Why?

We've managed fine with Snow Angels having variants, we've managed fine with Sweetlings having variants, for the past 8 years.  If it's not a situation you want to repeat, don't repeat it.  But don't go taking away or messing with people's collections after the fact.  This feels to me like one more example of how decisions are made "from on high" that totally screw over lineage-builders, and no explanation is ever offered afterwards.  I feel like it's always ignored that a large number of players are "breeders," who care about things like consistent checkers, a certain layout for the lineage page, making careful color matches of different dragon breeds, and so on. 

 

For Example: I'm not happy about the frequent re-doing of former sprites (with the exception of the Holly and the Vampires, which were more like 'tweaks' to the existing designs, and Vampires can't be used in lineages anyway).  But when you have a design that's your favorite, and it just vanishes one day?  That sucks.  Or when you've built a whole lineage around certain colors or poses and then the colors are changed, or the pose is completely different?  That sucks, too.  I feel like one thing that gets constantly overlooked by "the bosses" is that this is a "collecting game."  That should mean, when you like something, you get to collect it.  And once it's in your collection, it's not going to vanish, or morph into something else.  I'm all in favor of NEW sprites, but not of altering ones that we've been working with for ages.  There was no need to get rid of the Old Golds completely -- they could have remained in their lineages, as they were, and New Golds could have come out as a separate sprite.  At most, Old Golds could have been retired if there was a reason they needed to cease being involved.  But the New Golds were a completely different hue and pose from the Old ones.  As further examples, changing the male Horse Dragon messed up lineage views, changing the male Frill messed up lineage views, changing the Nilia Pygmy (which was one of my favorite designs) messed up lineage views, plus the new sprites aren't even on the same scale as the other pygmies!  And so on and so forth.  I adore Royal Blues, I've hoarded dozens of them.  But I hate knowing that one day, I could wake up to find them completely changed!  It really messes with the idea of having a collection in the first place.  There was also the time of messing with the lineage view, during which a huge number of "breeders" nearly or temporarily quit.  If it's not broke, don't fix it!

I don't understand what this move is intended to accomplish.  Make Alt Sweetling lineages in higher demand in trade?  In lower demand?  I see this playing out as...  Alt Sweetling owners are frustrated and upset that they can't breed true anymore, and can't continue their own lineages that they've put 8 years into already.  Normal Sweetling owners are either frustrated and upset that there's still no way for them to own an Alt Sweetling, or else they're unaffected (because for pity's sake, no one OWES them an Alt Sweetling!).  Most people were dealing with the situation just fine as it was, but making a change like this is going to stir up bad feelings afresh.  Everyone will feel like the higher-ups don't care about lineages (again).  Everyone will feel like the higher-ups don't respect them enough to give a reason for sudden and unilateral decisions that essentially take something away from the players (again). 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Kelkelen

[Nexu]

yay amazing ^^

[Imago]

Happy for the event and all, but really? Why retire Alt Sweetlings? I don't have any, but their owners have been building so many beautiful lineages with them over the years and are usually quite generous when it comes to breeding (I would never have been able to breed this line otherwise). And now this is being taken away from them? I really don't get the point, this just seems totally random to me. :/ Not nice.

[Tehpikachu]

replacing art is about improvement and making the site better. it's fair to want to update things when the designs in question get traded around and shown off to hundreds of people daily, yanno?

[Kelkelen]

Just now, Tehpikachu said:

replacing art is about improvement and making the site better. it's fair to want to update things when the designs in question get traded around and shown off to hundreds of people daily, yanno?

I don't understand this, no.  What does this change improve?  For whom?  In what way is this an "update," rather than a removal of something the vast majority liked?

[Jazeki]

Since TJ did not post in this thread yet, here's the official reason for retiring alt sweets: 

 

[Imago]

4 minutes ago, Tehpikachu said:

replacing art is about improvement and making the site better. it's fair to want to update things when the designs in question get traded around and shown off to hundreds of people daily, yanno?

This is not about replacing or updating art. The existing Alt Sweetlings are still there and the Pink Sweetlings have the exact same sprite except for their coloring. If they had just been updated, we wouldn't be so upset. It's about them not breeding true anymore. This doesn't improve the site in any way, it's just unfair to the Alt owners.

[Tehpikachu]

1 minute ago, Kelkelen said:

I don't understand this, no.  What does this change improve?  For whom?  In what way is this an "update," rather than a removal of something the vast majority liked?

 

Just now, Imago said:

This is not about replacing or updating art. The existing Alt Sweetlings are still there and the Pink Sweetlings have the exact same sprite except for their coloring. If they had just been updated, we wouldn't be so upset. It's about them not breeding true anymore. This doesn't improve the site in any way, it's just unfair to the Alt owners.

i wasn't really responding to the sweetling thing directly, i was mostly addressing your art replacement concerns

 

but the alt sweetlings not breeding true is something that should have been status quo from day one, honestly. as much as i respect tj's decision, people hate change and it's why people are mad

[Dragon_Arbock]

@Imago the were referring to Kelkelen's complaints about the Gold sprite update (or any sprite update really).

I agree that old, frankly bad looking sprites on the site should be updated. Do not agree with the alt sweets being retired though, and that is a different issue entirely.

[sroo]

I like the returning holiday biome. Helps me get my missing cbs. ^^ 

 

However the every event drama is getting out of hands. And this time it's by the admin himself!

 

Just because there is some whining about not being able to collect every sprite on site doesn't mean most of the player base does mind. I feel the upset this retirement of alt sweetling is going to stir up is far more severe than that of few cries for all the spites being collectible. In best case it would have been best never allow the alts breed true on any scroll but it's too late for that. I think the easiest and fairest would have been to make alt/non-lt sweetlings breed true on every scroll. Sure not all would have had cb alts/non-alts but they would have been able to collect at least 2nd gens.

 

Lets just hope there will be no new drama for this event. Or on the other hand why not, I just better stock up on popcorn.

[Imago]

Alright, sorry, I obviously didn't get the context. ^^" I'm also fine with sprite updates, but not with randomly changing game mechanics that weren't broken. Even if they weren't supposed to breed true initially, they have been doing so for years and it was never communicated that this wasn't intended and might be "fixed" in the future. Otherwise people wouldn't have invested so much in these lineages.

[Tehpikachu]

well. it be like that sometimes i guess. it's true we can't make more alt sweet lineages, but the ones we have don't go away and we got to enjoy them while they lasted. they're still pretty for sure

[TJ09]

Based on the response, I've decided to revise the decision around alt Sweetlings.

 

Let me first make it clear: alt Sweetlings are not going to see wider distribution. I'm sorry if that disappoints anyone who is or was hoping to eventually be able to get one, but it's not going to happen.

 

Instead, the behavior will be changed to allow everyone to access normal Sweetlings without breaking too many existing lineages. Rather than fully retiring alts, those with alts will be able to breed more and trade with people who also have alts, but eggs from non-alt Sweetlings will not magically become alts upon changing hands to someone with alts.

 

This change is live (or completely broken; we'll find out) not yet live but will be added soon. I'll update this post when it happens. Anyone who has already bred their alts will have the alt status updated upon the egg hatching.

[Kelkelen]

2 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

Based on the response, I've decided to revise the decision around alt Sweetlings.

 

Let me first make it clear: alt Sweetlings are not going to see wider distribution. I'm sorry if that disappoints anyone who is or was hoping to eventually be able to get one, but it's not going to happen.

 

Instead, the behavior will be changed to allow everyone to access normal Sweetlings without breaking too many existing lineages. Rather than fully retiring alts, those with alts will be able to breed more and trade with people who also have alts, but eggs from non-alt Sweetlings will not magically become alts upon changing hands to someone with alts.

 

This change is not yet live but will be added soon. I'll update this post when it happens. Anyone who has already bred their alts will have the alt status updated upon the egg hatching.

Thank you, TJ.  So much!!  I really appreciate knowing you're listening and considering.  I'm sure that Alt-owners will be a LOT happier, hearing this news!

[Tehpikachu]

well that's. that's unexpected. alrighty, then cool, thanks, tj

[Dragon_Arbock]

Well, that turned out about as I expected. But now one group gets to have both colors, while another group only has one. Disappointing, and I see no reason why it can't be both colors for both groups. (I expect because people won't complain about that as much as the retirement.)

Edited February 8, 2018 by Dragon_Arbock

[Tetelestai]

Thank you for revising the decision with the alt sweetlings, and thank you for the opportunity to complete my Valentine's CB goals <3 <3

[11th]

I just want to clarify: If I trade for a 2G from alt and then pass the egg to someone else with alts, would my scroll handling it result in a pink? Would it need to be a straight alt -> alt user trade?